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All iPads Where is Apple's rebuttal to Microsoft Surface?

Señor said:
I own an rMini, and can't wait for a larger iPhone. So your statement is invalid.
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I was just checking.

You were in effect saying something like a Surface was a stupid idea

In the same way and iPad mini or a larger iPhone WOULD have been stupid ideas before Apple made them or was known to be making them.

I believe you saying the Surface is a dumb idea is because Apple does not make one, and if Apple did bring out a table that could run iOS and OSX you would change your mind, and then such a device you would not then saw was stupid.
 
Piggie said:
I believe you saying the Surface is a dumb idea is because Apple does not make one, and if Apple did bring out a table that could run iOS and OSX you would change your mind, and then such a device you would not then saw was stupid.
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When Apple made the iPad mini, they made it 8 inches with 3:4 aspect ratio, not 7 inches with 16:9 or whatever ratio the Android tablets were using. For many years, people kept saying Apple should make a netbook, and they finally came out with the 11 inch MacBook Air. I bet the bigger iPhone will have some design feature that doesn't make it a straight copy of big Android phones. And when Apple does converge the tablet and laptop, they will do it in a way that makes sense. And people who are now speaking against Surface / Win8 might very well praise that, but only because Apple would have done something different than Microsoft, something that overcomes the current problem points of Surface / Win8.
 
Night Spring said:
And whatever their reasons for that choice, once they decide to bring multitasking to iOS, they can.
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And they can--presumably--build a digitizer--but wont. And they could have included a file finder in ios--but wont, ect. And the sum of these decisions is that the ipad is plus size phone that is fallen behind the curve of what competitive products are offering.
 
tdale said:
They are. And while SJ said a small iPad was not what the users wanted, it actually responded to what the other manufacturers provided, a smaller tablet
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Irony alert--this comment was in response to a post asserting that apple did not need to provided a rebuttal to the surface pro 3 because it is a windows product and apple does not make windows products.
 
Night Spring said:
Actually, the forced inclusion of Metro appears to have driven at least part of Windows users away, or made them decide to stick with Windows 7 or earlier. I know I will be sticking with Win7 until Microsoft clearns up its act, and I'm seriously contemplating switching to OS X. The tighter integration between iOS 8 and Yosemite is making the switch quite attractive.

The Windows lovers who hate Metro, will stay with 7, others will embrace and learn it. Me, I hate the tile UI, although now I just own a gaming rig on 7. I recently switched, so its no issue for me now. I switched, not because of Win 8 but as I use an iPhone, iPad, and I was interested for a long while in moving to OSX to add the integration.


.

So from where I'm standing, the OS looks extremely relevant.

If your a Windows user, and a tablet user (apps issue aside) the hybrid is a potentially nice option. If you are an Apple user, you probably have no interest, but there is interest from Apple users, predominantly due to having one device that is a tablet OS AND a full desktop OS


Last year, when Apple introduced the A7 chip, it called it a desktop-class chip. iOS *is* a touch friendly version of OS X. It's not pen friendly at the moment, but that is easily fixed by adding a digitalizer. The only thing iOS wouldn't do that Win8 does is run legacy desktop software. Any other "desktop" function can be turned on if Apple flips a switch, as anyone familiar with the jailbreak tweaks scene well knows. And legacy software is not as important as people think. You don't really want to run desktop Photoshop on a tablet, what you really want is a tablet version of Photoshop that does everything the desktop version does.

An option is to make OSX touch friendly, without slashing the current UI. Or to keep integrating as is happening, example, the function which I cannot recall, to automagically move a document etc between devices as you work on it. As you say, allow the tablet functions to grow so you can use a very similar and capable version of say Photoshop on the iMac, MBP, or iPad. Thats a great rebuttal, and a differentiation to MSFT



I think eventually iOS and OS X will converge.

I don't think so. Im thinking sales, and going back to your compromises, you cannot have desktop OS that on a 27 inch screen is the same as on a 9.7 screen. Integrate where moving one to another is seamless.

But Apple is leading up to it gradually, rather than forcing a giant leap forward like Microsoft did with Win8. So sure, right now we are stuck with iOS apps that are not as powerful or full-featured as their desktop counterparts. But iOS gets more powerful each year, and with that, iOS apps get more powerful each year. Eventually, we won't see much difference between desktop and tablet apps in terms of power and features, so that when the convergence does happen, the transition will be smooth, with little or no learning curve. At least, that is what I think Apple is aiming for.

Agree
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.

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Night Spring said:
What do you mean by mutitasking? If it means having processes running in the background, then enabling that is simple -- there's been jailbreak tweaks that do that for years. If you mean multiple windows, again, there are jailbreak tweaks that do that. So it's not that Apple CAN'T, it's that they are choosing not to. And whatever their reasons for that choice, once they decide to bring multitasking to iOS, they can.
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I'd suspect battery life is one reason, thats a PR blunder to allow battery like to plummet, thats an iPad feature. Also, on a small screen, do we really want two windows? Some do, some don't from what I have read, but thats feature well worth adding in as it would work nicely with some apps. Allow multitasking to work automatically only in that scenario

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Piggie said:
I was just checking.

You were in effect saying something like a Surface was a stupid idea

In the same way and iPad mini or a larger iPhone WOULD have been stupid ideas before Apple made them or was known to be making them.

I believe you saying the Surface is a dumb idea is because Apple does not make one, and if Apple did bring out a table that could run iOS and OSX you would change your mind, and then such a device you would not then saw was stupid.
Click to expand...

Well put. I filtered it out as fanboy based

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rowspaxe said:
And they can--presumably--build a digitizer--but wont. And they could have included a file finder in ios--but wont, ect. And the sum of these decisions is that the ipad is plus size phone that is fallen behind the curve of what competitive products are offering.
Click to expand...

I agree. However, I place these inane restrictions in iOS on the great man, SJ. Times changed, and TC is freeing up iOS, by adding in old Android features, and there is nothing wrong with that catchup.

File finder? Spotlight. If you mean ideally to have file system access, thats not needed in iOS. I lived in Windows Explorer, but in iOS the apps own the file, what is needed is apps that you can create folders in the app, unlike iBooks, so I use Goodreader and the end result of pseudo file system access is there now

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rowspaxe said:
Irony alert--this comment was in response to a post asserting that apple did not need to provided a rebuttal to the surface pro 3 because it is a windows product and apple does not make windows products.
Click to expand...

And if you read further, and did not mislead by omitting what I said later, then you would have seen why I said a rebuttal is required as most of the iPad users use Windows, so an opportunity by MSFT to take users back to Windows
 
Night Spring said:
When Apple made the iPad mini, they made it 8 inches with 3:4 aspect ratio, not 7 inches with 16:9 or whatever ratio the Android tablets were using. For many years, people kept saying Apple should make a netbook, and they finally came out with the 11 inch MacBook Air. I bet the bigger iPhone will have some design feature that doesn't make it a straight copy of big Android phones. And when Apple does converge the tablet and laptop, they will do it in a way that makes sense. And people who are now speaking against Surface / Win8 might very well praise that, but only because Apple would have done something different than Microsoft, something that overcomes the current problem points of Surface / Win8.
Click to expand...

What do you feel are the problem points of the surface?

If Apple put some touch enabled changes into OSX and the surface could run OSX (optional keyboard) or flip into iPad mode, what would be wrong?
 
Piggie said:
What do you feel are the problem points of the surface?

If Apple put some touch enabled changes into OSX and the surface could run OSX (optional keyboard) or flip into iPad mode, what would be wrong?
Click to expand...

I already said what I found problematic about the Surface in multiple posts on this thread, please go back and read them.

And I thnk iOS *is* the touch friendly version of OS X. Whether or not you agree with Apple's decision, the fact is that they decided that tinkering with OS X to make it "touch friendly" isn't the way to go. Instead, they built a touch-centric OS from the grounds up.

If you want to see what a "touch friendly" version of a desktop OS is like, then Windows has been touch enqbled since at least Vista. It just doesn't work -- if it did, why did Microsoft even bother making the Metro interface? They could just have put regular desktop Windows, slightly modify things to make it touch friendly, and called it a day.
 
Piggie said:
What do you feel are the problem points of the surface?

He outlined a page or two back

If Apple put some touch enabled changes into OSX and the surface could run OSX (optional keyboard) or flip into iPad mode, what would be wrong?
Click to expand...

Surface run OSX, never happen

OSX on a tablet, good idea with a few changes to make it useable. Thats why SP3 is well regarded. But Apples two OS's run on different platforms, so difficult to do
 
Night Spring said:
I already said what I found problematic about the Surface in multiple posts on this thread, please go back and read them.

And I thnk iOS *is* the touch friendly version of OS X. Whether or not you agree with Apple's decision, the fact is that they decided that tinkering with OS X to make it "touch friendly" isn't the way to go. Instead, they built a touch-centric OS from the grounds up.

If you want to see what a "touch friendly" version of a desktop OS is like, then Windows has been touch enqbled since at least Vista. It just doesn't work -- if it did, why did Microsoft even bother making the Metro interface? They could just have put regular desktop Windows, slightly modify things to make it touch friendly, and called it a day.
Click to expand...

Actually it's whether people agree or not with your opinion, not Apples decision making but no matter. If people want to see what a touch screen based OSX looks like then they should check out the Modbook http://www.modbook.com
 
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Night Spring said:
If you want to see what a "touch friendly" version of a desktop OS is like, then Windows has been touch enqbled since at least Vista. It just doesn't work -- if it did, why did Microsoft even bother making the Metro interface? They could just have put regular desktop Windows, slightly modify things to make it touch friendly, and called it a day.
Click to expand...

Actually--it does work and I use it all the time--mudbox, sketch book pro, ect.

But what you dont get is that is value to have less touch friendly applications on the same tablet. If I need to do something in Office--I take out my mouse and get things done. That why I feel win 8 dual nature is not a minus, but a plus.

The real question is why does MS need metro? Because they had aspirations to be a pure tablet player. But that will never happen, and metro may disappear eventually.
 
rowspaxe said:
The real question is why does MS need metro? Because they had aspirations to be a pure tablet player. But that will never happen, and metro may disappear eventually.
Click to expand...

Because they saw Apple and Google making hay, and jumped in using Apples model, their brand to catch up. Once they get more of the main apps sorted, devs will support more, that cycle will catch up in a few years maybe.
 
rowspaxe said:
But what you dont get is that is value to have less touch friendly applications on the same tablet. If I need to do something in Office--I take out my mouse and get things done. That why I feel win 8 dual nature is not a minus, but a plus
Click to expand...

I think I may have felt the same way before I got used to the iPad. Now it's like, "I have to take out a mouse? I have to carry one with me? No, I want a touch-optimized interface!" :D
 
Night Spring said:
I think I may have felt the same way before I got used to the iPad. Now it's like, "I have to take out a mouse? I have to carry one with me? No, I want a touch-optimized interface!" :D
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Suggestion, a gesture, say two fingers touching in sequence to activate a cursor. Theres the mouse. Or some other easy way to activate and deactivate it
 
tdale said:
Because they saw Apple and Google making hay, and jumped in using Apples model, their brand to catch up. Once they get more of the main apps sorted, devs will support more, that cycle will catch up in a few years maybe.
Click to expand...

surface zombie thread still somehow more interesting than "naked ipad?" and "ipad air vs ipad air 2".

I dont know if the MS store ever achieves critical mass. Unlike apple, google play and kindle, MS has no media. Maybe the "app age" has passed. I havent bought an app in 2 years.
 
rowspaxe said:
surface zombie thread still somehow more interesting than "naked ipad?" and "ipad air vs ipad air 2".

I dont know if the MS store ever achieves critical mass. Unlike apple, google play and kindle, MS has no media. Maybe the "app age" has passed. I havent bought an app in 2 years.
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Do you consider Xbox Music and Video to be media?

Are you gauging the "app age" by your purchasing habits? I'm pretty sure that people have bought apps from Apple, Google, and Amazon app stores in the past 2 years.
 
sracer said:
Do you consider Xbox Music and Video to be media?

Are you gauging the "app age" by your purchasing habits? I'm pretty sure that people have bought apps from Apple, Google, and Amazon app stores in the past 2 years.
Click to expand...

Have to admit that I thought they'd get more traction. MS is a big name, Nokia is a big name, the Lumia phones are very good. Apps need catching up, but its not happening. I know Android users have gone there, but clearly not in numbers. They need the Apple hype machine going on. Most users just buy a phone, they need their name out there in big print.
 
sracer said:
Do you consider Xbox Music and Video to be media?

Are you gauging the "app age" by your purchasing habits? I'm pretty sure that people have bought apps from Apple, Google, and Amazon app stores in the past 2 years.M
Click to expand...

Xbox media is not in the Windows store, per se. And as I have remarked elsewhere, Microsoft's attempt to morph its game brand into a media brand is another confusing marketing error on par the windows rt debacle. My comment was that windows store might not gain critical mass because it is not inclusive of media.

My second remark was a personal observation that app enthusiasm seems diminished--perhaps a reason why ipad sales are flattening. But you can interpret it literally if it makes you feel better
 
rowspaxe said:
Xbox media is not in the Windows store, per se. And as I have remarked elsewhere, Microsoft's attempt to morph its game brand into a media brand is another confusing marketing error on par the windows rt debacle. My comment was that windows store might not gain critical mass because it is not inclusive of media.

My second remark was a personal observation that app enthusiasm seems diminished--perhaps a reason why ipad sales are flattening. But you can interpret it literally if it makes you feel better
Click to expand...

Many games in the Windows Store? I checked Angry Birds, that was on Windows Phone only. Entertainment is the key and games are big. Pity for them as they have a big game presence, Xbox has an online presence, if they had gotten in earlier probably could have made ground. Android isn't in the news much these days, Id expected Windows to hit Android more than iPhone.
 
rowspaxe said:
My second remark was a personal observation that app enthusiasm seems diminished--perhaps a reason why ipad sales are flattening. But you can interpret it literally if it makes you feel better
Click to expand...

Ah, the ol' personal anecdote as a reasonable extrapolation of the whole, got it.
 
tdale said:
Suggestion, a gesture, say two fingers touching in sequence to activate a cursor. Theres the mouse. Or some other easy way to activate and deactivate it
Click to expand...

Like the way remote control apps use gestures and menus to let you control a desktop computer from the iPad? It's doable, I suppose, but not as ideal as a touch-optimized interface.
 
I think the comparison to a laptop is a bit silly. I feel like using my surface pro is more like using a portable desktop lol.

When I forget about the poor battery life it's actually a fun tablet to use. I was laying in bed reading something on reddit a few days ago, and had youtube open in another chrome window, yeah.. in desktop mode. It was nice.

I dislike the "one thing at a time" mentality of other tablet OSes, including Windows' modern UI.
 
rowspaxe said:
yeah, something like that:

Paid Apps Aren't Dead — But They Are on Life Support
http://mashable.com/2013/10/08/state-of-paid-apps/
Click to expand...

Interesting article, not sure how this relates to our discussion here, though. That title is totally misleading. The article itself talks about freemium / IAP models replacing upfront payments as the way to monetize apps. Nowhere does it say anything about apps being on life support.
 
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