Who Else Changed Their Mind?

[newellj]

I'm sorry, your post and several other people's posts here are simply divorced from reality.

Example: greedy because they waited too long to adjust prices for exchange rate differences? You can't be serious.

Example: hardware prices? Do the math:

11" MBA 4/256 $1100
add: 8gb RAM $1200
compare: 8/256 rMB $1300

What's in the $100 delta?

- most importantly, you get a $h!tty display; cost of retina upgrade? At least $200, so the 11" MBA would be at least $100, probably $200, more than the rMB
- but the rMB is only 85% of the weight of the MBA, a difference that some people will pay money for
- you don't get the new trackpad
- you don't get the new keyboard
- you get old battery tech, which means run times will take a serious hit
- you do get the i5 processor, but that will cost you battery run time, too

You may not care about weight. You may prefer the old keyboard. Those preferences in no way take away from the value, objective and subjective, of the rMB to many buyers.

Be honest: just say "it's not the right machine for me and my uses." This "greedy" stuff is an irrational fantasy. If it so offends your moral principles, do the honest thing and stop subsidizing this greed - buy a Dell or Lenovo and stop whining about "greed."

Lol. What's wrong with some of you people? "How can you call a company that runs a business greedy??", "How can a company be greedy, I don't get it??", "It's silly to call a company greedy", etc., etc.

Don't know what's difficult to comprehend for some of you here. Companies can be/get greedy, it's not an opinion that should express shock and be defensive of.

Also, there are many who share a similar opinion and a lot of them are Apple users.


Apple's Greed Is Making My iPhone Worse






Apple Is Being Greedy








Apple Raises Prices on Several Products in Many Countries Amid Strong U.S. Dollar

6 Outrageously Greedy Companies That Make Scrooge Look Like a Softie

Steve Jobs Warns Apple: Don't Get Greedy

----------

I'm sorry, your post and several others here are simply divorced from reality.

Example: greedy because they waited too long to adjust prices for exchange rate differences? You can't be serious.

Example: hardware prices? Do the math:

11" MBA 4/256 $1100
add: 8gb RAM $1200
compare: 8/256 rMB $1300
What's in the $100 delta?
- most importantly, you get a $h!tty display; cost of retina upgrade? At least $200, so the 11" MBA would be at least $100, probably $200, more than the rMB
- but the rMB is only 85% of the weight of the MBA, which some people will pay money for
- you don't get the new trackpad
- you don't get the new keyboard
- you get old battery tech which means run times will take a serious hit
- you do get the i5 processor, but that will cost you battery run time too

You may not care about weight. You may prefer the old keyboard. Those preferences in no way take away from the value, objective and subjective, of the rMB to many buyers.

Be honest: just say "it's not the right machine for me and my uses." This "greedy" stuff is an irrational fantasy. If it so offends your moral principles, do the honest thing and start buying Dell or Lenovo rather than compromising your morals.

Lol. What's wrong with some of you people? "How can you call a company that runs a business greedy??", "How can a company be greedy, I don't get it??", "It's silly to call a company greedy", etc., etc.

Don't know what's difficult to comprehend for some of you here. Companies can be/get greedy, it's not an opinion that should express shock and be defensive of.

Also, there are many who share a similar opinion and a lot of them are Apple users.


Apple's Greed Is Making My iPhone Worse






Apple Is Being Greedy








Apple Raises Prices on Several Products in Many Countries Amid Strong U.S. Dollar

6 Outrageously Greedy Companies That Make Scrooge Look Like a Softie

Steve Jobs Warns Apple: Don't Get Greedy

 

[technosix]

I really don't see "greedy" here. Please explain.

Allow me to add some context:

I've been an active, avid, Apple customer/shareholder continuously since I purchased my PowerBook 170 in 1991. I own tens of thousands of dollars in Apple products, all of which get replaced with new counterparts every 24 months. I am _not_ an immature "hater." I have a comprehensive understanding of large scale corp business circa 2015.

Greedy can easily be misinterpreted, but having been used in the thread I agreed based on one simple fact. Apple charges prices that create profit margins far higher than the majority of competitors in the industry.

Yes, it's their prerogative, yes they're in business for profit. But some, not all, of their products border on obscene pricing, ie: lightning cables. Options on BTO /CTO computers.

Suffice to say that instead of holding such a hard line on margins, if they offered some things at more reasonable prices, labels and rumors like "Apple Tax " wouldn't exist, Apple might actually make even more bottom line profit, and be seen in a friendlier light.

 

[dexterbell]

For me it is an incredible deal, extremely cheap (would have paid twice the price) and very good portability which is the overall biggest factor for me. As it is a business notebook it will pay for itself in a few days, even less if you count in the tax break.

For others that might be a completely different thing. And then something like the 13 MPro might be a better deal.

You would have paid $2600 for an Core M powered laptop with a 12 inch display and one port? Do you normally pay double or triple the price of products you want. Apple LOVES people like you lol.

 

[AdonisSMU]

Allow me to add some context:

I've been an active, avid, Apple customer/shareholder continuously since I purchased my PowerBook 170 in 1991. I own tens of thousands of dollars in Apple products, all of which get replaced with new counterparts every 24 months. I am _not_ an immature "hater." I have a comprehensive understanding of large scale corp business circa 2015.

Greedy can easily be misinterpreted, but having been used in the thread I agreed based on one simple fact. Apple charges prices that create profit margins far higher than the majority of competitors in the industry.

Yes, it's their prerogative, yes they're in business for profit. But some, not all, of their products border on obscene pricing, ie: lightning cables. Options on BTO /CTO computers.

Suffice to say that instead of holding such a hard line on margins, if they offered some things at more reasonable prices, labels and rumors like "Apple Tax " wouldn't exist, Apple might actually make even more bottom line profit, and be seen in a friendlier light.

Apple replaces lightening cables free of charge. They also have robust insurance plans and service for their products at an individual level that is unparalled by other hardware makers.

People are trying to justify their non purchase. If they dont need/want something simply dont buy it rather than start getting overly critical to justify their non-purchase decision to others. I see people who dont need/want the new macbook doing the most griping. Honestly if they dont need it they shouldnt be buying it to begin with. They pretend they are in the market when in fact they arent in the market for a new macbook to begin with.

Then there are those who simply cant afford the macbook. That is not Apple's fault. Make more money and comeback when you have the money for it.

 

[PDFierro]

You would have paid $2600 for an Core M powered laptop with a 12 inch display and one port? Do you normally pay double or triple the price of products you want. Apple LOVES people like you lol.

$2,600 would be a ridiculous price. At that point it better come with LTE, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD, and an extra port. I think the current pricing is fair though.

 

[newellj]

Allow me to add some context:

I've been an active, avid, Apple customer/shareholder continuously since I purchased my PowerBook 170 in 1991. I own tens of thousands of dollars in Apple products, all of which get replaced with new counterparts every 24 months. I am _not_ an immature "hater." I have a comprehensive understanding of large scale corp business circa 2015.

Greedy can easily be misinterpreted, but having been used in the thread I agreed based on one simple fact. Apple charges prices that create profit margins far higher than the majority of competitors in the industry.

Yes, it's their prerogative, yes they're in business for profit. But some, not all, of their products border on obscene pricing, ie: lightning cables. Options on BTO /CTO computers.

Suffice to say that instead of holding such a hard line on margins, if they offered some things at more reasonable prices, labels and rumors like "Apple Tax " wouldn't exist, Apple might actually make even more bottom line profit, and be seen in a friendlier light.

But then that's presumably true across the board, for the whole line? There is room to discuss that question for sure, but I would say that having spent a lot of time during the past two years comparing pricing and specs for both Mac and Windows notebooks, I have come to believe that for the most part Apple's prices are in general not higher than those charged by reputable Windows laptop manufacturers. YMMV on that, though, and it's always hard to really do an apples to Apple comparison because of the differences in the OSes.

----------

Then there are those who simply cant afford the macbook. That is not Apple's fault. Make more money and comeback when you have the money for it.

My post may have been a little black and white, not sure. There may be a middle ground where people could say "if you need the features, it would be worth the price, but I don't, so it's not." However, that is not what the "greedy" crowd is saying: they're just saying it's grossly over-priced.

 

[Soordhin]

You would have paid $2600 for an Core M powered laptop with a 12 inch display and one port? Do you normally pay double or triple the price of products you want.

It is a business expense. At the current price it pays for itself in about 2 or 3 days (dunno what the BTO price will be over here) and lowers my taxload over three years. At double the price it would have paid for itself within a week, which is still not bad.

And as i said in my post, it depends what is the most important factor. For me it is the need to have the lightest possible MacOS notebook, after all i have to carry it around for more than 200 days of travelling a year, every little bit of extra weight counts then. I don't need ports, and so far i have no problems working on a 11' screen on my MBAs, so 12' at a higher resolution should be good enough.

 

[magbarn]

I'm sorry, your post and several other people's posts here are simply divorced from reality.

Example: greedy because they waited too long to adjust prices for exchange rate differences? You can't be serious.

Example: hardware prices? Do the math:

11" MBA 4/256 $1100
add: 8gb RAM $1200
compare: 8/256 rMB $1300

What's in the $100 delta?

- most importantly, you get a $h!tty display; cost of retina upgrade? At least $200, so the 11" MBA would be at least $100, probably $200, more than the rMB
- but the rMB is only 85% of the weight of the MBA, a difference that some people will pay money for
- you don't get the new trackpad
- you don't get the new keyboard
- you get old battery tech, which means run times will take a serious hit
- you do get the i5 processor, but that will cost you battery run time, too

You may not care about weight. You may prefer the old keyboard. Those preferences in no way take away from the value, objective and subjective, of the rMB to many buyers.

Be honest: just say "it's not the right machine for me and my uses." This "greedy" stuff is an irrational fantasy. If it so offends your moral principles, do the honest thing and stop subsidizing this greed - buy a Dell or Lenovo and stop whining about "greed."



----------

I'm sorry, your post and several others here are simply divorced from reality.

Example: greedy because they waited too long to adjust prices for exchange rate differences? You can't be serious.

Example: hardware prices? Do the math:

11" MBA 4/256 $1100
add: 8gb RAM $1200
compare: 8/256 rMB $1300
What's in the $100 delta?
- most importantly, you get a $h!tty display; cost of retina upgrade? At least $200, so the 11" MBA would be at least $100, probably $200, more than the rMB
- but the rMB is only 85% of the weight of the MBA, which some people will pay money for
- you don't get the new trackpad
- you don't get the new keyboard
- you get old battery tech which means run times will take a serious hit
- you do get the i5 processor, but that will cost you battery run time too

You may not care about weight. You may prefer the old keyboard. Those preferences in no way take away from the value, objective and subjective, of the rMB to many buyers.

Be honest: just say "it's not the right machine for me and my uses." This "greedy" stuff is an irrational fantasy. If it so offends your moral principles, do the honest thing and start buying Dell or Lenovo rather than compromising your morals.

I think the real rMB 'killer' is the rMBP 13. The 2014 brand new 256gb model routinely sells for less than what the rMB will sell for. You get much better keyboard key-travel wise, faster cpu & gpu(yes, the core-M's gpu is being gimped by the 4.5watt TDP), 2 USB 3.0 ports, Thunderbolt, MagSafe, and even equivalent battery life at the expense of extra weight. I travel all the time with my rMBP 13 and it was worth the extra weight over the MBA's.

 

[MacsandCheese]

No, seems in line with other pricing. That said, if Apple eventually eliminate the Macbook Air, I could see the price going down then.

I was a bit annoyed at the high price initially, but I got over it. You're paying for retina and ultimate portability.

 

[Mcdevidr]

It is a business expense. At the current price it pays for itself in about 2 or 3 days (dunno what the BTO price will be over here) and lowers my taxload over three years. At double the price it would have paid for itself within a week, which is still not bad.

And as i said in my post, it depends what is the most important factor. For me it is the need to have the lightest possible MacOS notebook, after all i have to carry it around for more than 200 days of travelling a year, every little bit of extra weight counts then. I don't need ports, and so far i have no problems working on a 11' screen on my MBAs, so 12' at a higher resolution should be good enough.

It doesn't pay for itself. You still have to do the work. You pay for it. Paying double would mean you do twice the work to pay for it.

 

[PDFierro]

It is a business expense. At the current price it pays for itself in about 2 or 3 days (dunno what the BTO price will be over here) and lowers my taxload over three years. At double the price it would have paid for itself within a week, which is still not bad.

And as i said in my post, it depends what is the most important factor. For me it is the need to have the lightest possible MacOS notebook, after all i have to carry it around for more than 200 days of travelling a year, every little bit of extra weight counts then. I don't need ports, and so far i have no problems working on a 11' screen on my MBAs, so 12' at a higher resolution should be good enough.

I think that's a bad way of looking at it. I use my Mac for work too, but no way would I pay $2600 for the rMB. That's just crazy.

 

[jclardy]

I was seriously considering it, because I love the design and I could survive with one port. I also really wanted space gray.

But the starting price, crappy non-scaled screen resolution, non-HD FaceTime camera, Core-M and only 10 hours of battery pushed me back to the newest 13" rMBP, which I am now quite happy with - performance wise it is incredible compared to the 2012 rMBP I had before.

I still really want one, but I don't think it will be practical for me until gen 3 at the earliest.

 

[Pootan]

Remember the iBook g3 guys? 2001 and for $1599 pushed waaaay under its weight class for the price (I bought the compaq 700 instead). But it would have done all I needed it to for university, probably got me better marks too since it couldn't run games lol.

 

[Alloy201]

The rMB isn't what everyone wants, but it would fit almost everyone's needs. The majority of 13" rMBP owners wouldn't even be able to tell much of a performance difference, if at all. They use their 13" rMBP to do basic things, just like how you would use the rMB. Your everyday novice doing basic tasks won't notice the differences between the two. You do have that small percentage of professionals who simply need a lot of power, but they would be buying the 15" quad core, not the 13" rMBP. The 13" rMBP is pretty much only being bought by spec geeks and your everyday novice who wants it due to people telling them it's the better option. The 13" rMBP all around is the better option, but to call the rMB underpowered is laughable. It's plenty powerful enough for almost every computer user.

 

[Mcdevidr]

I was seriously considering it, because I love the design and I could survive with one port. I also really wanted space gray.

But the starting price, crappy non-scaled screen resolution, non-HD FaceTime camera, Core-M and only 10 hours of battery pushed me back to the newest 13" rMBP, which I am now quite happy with - performance wise it is incredible compared to the 2012 rMBP I had before.

I still really want one, but I don't think it will be practical for me until gen 3 at the earliest.

Cool. The weight of the 13.3 MacBook Pro retina and crappy non scaled resolution 1280x800 and the only 10 hours battery life turn me off to that model.

 

[AdonisSMU]

I was seriously considering it, because I love the design and I could survive with one port. I also really wanted space gray.

But the starting price, crappy non-scaled screen resolution, non-HD FaceTime camera, Core-M and only 10 hours of battery pushed me back to the newest 13" rMBP, which I am now quite happy with - performance wise it is incredible compared to the 2012 rMBP I had before.

I still really want one, but I don't think it will be practical for me until gen 3 at the earliest.

I have the 2012 rMBP. What are your other specs?

 

[ByteTheBooty]

US$2,299 = 15" retina MacBook Pro w/ 512GB SSD
US$1,799 = 13" retina MacBook Pro w/ 512GB SSD

US$1,599 = 12" retina MacBook w/ 512GB SSD

The price for the new retina MacBook w/ 512GB SSD seems to be consistent with the rest of the line's pricing, IMO.

damn never noticed how expensive the 15 inch is....they should really make one with the same specs of the 13 rMBP only 100-200$ more expensive than it...

 

[dexterbell]

The rMB isn't what everyone wants, but it would fit almost everyone's needs. The majority of 13" rMBP owners wouldn't even be able to tell much of a performance difference, if at all. They use their 13" rMBP to do basic things, just like how you would use the rMB. Your everyday novice doing basic tasks won't notice the differences between the two. You do have that small percentage of professionals who simply need a lot of power, but they would be buying the 15" quad core, not the 13" rMBP. The 13" rMBP is pretty much only being bought by spec geeks and your everyday novice who wants it due to people telling them it's the better option. The 13" rMBP all around is the better option, but to call the rMB underpowered is laughable. It's plenty powerful enough for almost every computer user.

....OR, someone who doesn't want a huge, ugly 3 headed dongle hanging off their laptop...

Also, your assumption that "The 13" rMBP is pretty much only being bought by spec geeks and your everyday novice who wants it due to people telling them it's the better option" is plain absurd. Its bought by MANY people who want the combination of power and portability, those who think the 15 is too much computer or too large.

 

[ctyrider]

....OR, someone who doesn't want a huge, ugly 3 headed dongle hanging off their laptop...

You are still here spewing this.. stuff? For someone who seems to hate rMB so much, you sure spend a lot of time on this forum.

What "huge ugly dongle" are you referring to exactly? Apple USB-C A/V adapter is hardly "huge". And it's not like it's permanently attached to rMB. The only time it will be "hanging off my laptop" is when it's stationed on my desk and connected to a display. No different from your rMBP really, except rMBP will have more cables directly attached to it.. whoopee!

In all other use cases - there will be absolutely nothing hanging off my rMB.

 

[dexterbell]

You are still here spewing this.. stuff? For someone who seems to hate rMB so much, you sure spend a lot of time on this forum.

What "huge ugly dongle" are you referring to exactly? Apple USB-C A/V adapter is hardly "huge". And it's not like it's permanently attached to rMB. The only time it will be "hanging off my laptop" is when it's stationed on my desk and connected to a display. No different from your rMBP really, except rMBP will have more cables directly attached to it.. whoopee!

In all other use cases - there will be absolutely nothing hanging off my rMB.

Well I am genuinely interested in the demographic looking to buy it and see what they think. Just because I think its underpowered and overpriced is irrelevant. It may not apply to you but I see quite a few people in coffee shops and eateries with MacBooks. Many times I see people charging them too. What if you are charging but also need a free port too? Get out the dongle and your nice, pretty, slim rMB has an octopus growing out of it. Just think it will look silly and I think most people don't realize how much they plug things into their laptops until they aren't able to. Also, I still haven't seen an SD card reader on a USB-C dongle, is there one? Apple assuming everyone does everything in the Cloud and don't need things like card readers to upload pics or basic ports is a disturbing direction they are headed.

 

[Alloy201]

I see Mac's a lot also and rarely do I see anyone using more than one port. They're either charging their Mac or their phone. I have had a Mac for almost 4 years and I can honestly say I can't remember the last time I used multiple ports at once. You're speaking from your lifestyle, the average user won't need a dongle. People who need multiple ports frequently have no business buying the rMB, therefore you being in this thread is pointless other than you trying to be annoying. You think it's underpowerd and one port stinks. That's perfectly fine, just don't hang out in rMB threads to complain. Nobody cares what you like or think. Sorry, not sorry.

 

[Geert76]

I see Mac's a lot also and rarely do I see anyone using more than one port. They're either charging their Mac or their phone. I have had a Mac for almost 4 years and I can honestly say I can't remember the last time I used multiple ports at once. You're speaking from your lifestyle, the average user won't need a dongle. People who need multiple ports frequently have no business buying the rMB, therefore you being in this thread is pointless other than you trying to be annoying. You think it's underpowerd and one port stinks. That's perfectly fine, just don't hang out in rMB threads to complain. Nobody cares what you like or think. Sorry, not sorry.

well said!

 

[clyde2801]

I dunno...may sit this one out.

Until recently, I lugged around a 13" rMBP and an iPad Air 2 with keyboard folio on my outings from my office. Sold the laptop when I realized that I was pulling out the Air to do most of my lightweight stuff and it was becoming dead weight in the briefcase.

And the new model looks slicker than snot on a doorknob. Thin, light, elegant design, silent and finally colors besides silver. Gold looks nice, but I've always been partial to the original black book. So I should be in the target audience for the nMB, right? But I'm contemplating sitting this one out:

1) My old mac mentor had what he called his first mac commandment: Thou shalt NOT buy a version A. Besides avoiding possible hardware and software teething problems, Apple comes up with a great design on the first generation of a new product, then sticks in at least one killer feature or upgrade on the second and subsequent updates. Remember how the original iPad didn't have a camera, but they were able to put one in the iPad 2 despite it being thinner and lighter with twice the ram? I think I'll wait for the new Macbook S so to speak. At least then it won't look like I'm face timing from 2010, hopefully.

2) USB-C, avoiding the cutting edge. It would be great if this becomes the industry standard. IF being the operative word. Should USB-C peripherals become plentiful and readily available, great! But if not, this may become one heckuva dead end. I hope it works out, and I applaud Apple for moving past proprietary adapters.

3. Macbook Air redeux. This has already been beaten to death, but I do expect this to become the new entry level computer in a year or two once component and design costs start to decline. The 2008 Macbook Air was the novel, overpriced and underpowered CEO's laptop that became the entry level portable in 2010 when it displaced the original white Macbook. I see the same thing happening in a couple of years.

4. Apple's real competitor. Make no mistake, I would be the first person in line on April 10th if I didn't have the iPad Air2 and keyboard combo. And I suspect I'm not the only person who will make this choice. Unlike it's predecessors, the Air2 has provided an experience similar to using a laptop. It can access large numbers of scanned pdfs that would have bogged down it's older brothers. And there's a lot of them out there, already in the hands of the nMB's targeted consumer base. Say what you will about Lenovo, Samsung, Dell, etc., but Apple's most ferocious competitor is Apple.

Not hating on the new laptop but merely one man giving his opinion and weighing in. Just saying that I don't expect it will be the right choice for me, at least right now. But I do reserve the right to change my mind. If I don't, I wish all of you brave and hearty souls the best..while I'm casting envious glances in your general direction for the next year or two.

 

[pdutta2000]

I don't understand the Greed comments or the Dongle comments. Apple's not selling water to thirsty refugees. They're in the business of selling expensive things to people who don't need them. Apple has never been the cheapest or even wanted to be. The only area where they played that part was in iTunes. Even then they sold songs at $.99 in order to lock you into their ecosystem. It was a designed Loss Leader. Apple wants to be a luxury brand and that means there's a premium to be paid. The Apple Tax. It's not new so why is anyone trying to complain about it on the rMB? That computer is miles better looking than anything else on the market. And yes Looks do matter when you're a luxury brand. No one asks Louis Vuitton why their bags don't hold that much stuff.

As for the Dongles. It's not meant to be used with Dongles. If your Use Case requires multiple things to be plugged in...don't buy it. My use case requires me to fly from Boston to San Fran to present at a 1-2 hour sales meeting and then fly back. I do this 5-6 times a month and to other cities like LA, Chicago, Austin, etc. Thin and light are key. The ability to walk on a plane with just a laptop and notebook and no briefcase at all is amazing to me. I'm not expecting to design the next space shuttle on this thing. I need email and PowerPoint. It should be able to handle that.

 

[newellj]

1) My old mac mentor had what he called his first mac commandment: Thou shalt NOT buy a version A. Besides avoiding possible hardware and software teething problems, Apple comes up with a great design on the first generation of a new product, then sticks in at least one killer feature or upgrade on the second and subsequent updates. Remember how the original iPad didn't have a camera, but they were able to put one in the iPad 2 despite it being thinner and lighter with twice the ram? I think I'll wait for the new Macbook S so to speak. At least then it won't look like I'm face timing from 2010, hopefully.

In my mind, that's probably the biggest risk, and I think it's a big risk. Think about the original MBA. Or more recently, think about the leap from the iPad to the iPad 2, which is probably closer to what will probably happen here. I am asking myself questions like: how much will this really improve my daily out-of-home routine, and assuming Gen 2 is enough of an upgrade to make me want to upgrade next year, what's my best guess at resale value and how do I feel about whatever amount the difference is?

I'm still not sure, though I lean toward buying one. Either way, I think the amount of re-thinking that Apple did with this machine is very positive.

Across the broad spectrum of buyers, your iPad as competition comment is probably true, but I have had to do real work on an iPad for a week (Sandy) and it's not even close for what I do for a living. Things like a desktop OS and a mouse make the difference between barely coping and highly productive for me. Nevertheless, there is clearly a lot of opinion the other way.

I upvoted your post because it's very logical, factual and well-presented. Thanks for advancing constructive discussion!