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Who is disappointed about no MMP refresh
- Thread starter Bumble Bee
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I very much agree. I apologize in advance for my lack of brevity.
What I really hate are the people that wait months to get a refreshed computer and then decide, when it surely must be a matter of weeks away, to buy the product at the VERY END of the cycle. And of course those same people later ask about whether or not they should return it for the new one or complain that they're getting screwed when they knowingly bought an outgoing model.
I mean, how can one wait months but not weeks? If you don't really need it nowwhich you state when you say things like "That's it, I'm done, the current one is good enough for me"then how come you bothered waiting in the first place? For some people, the current model is certainly all they'd need. But if you're concerned enough to wait in the first place, why not see it through to the end. Even if the current one is good enough for you, the next one will last exponentially longer for you.
If you didn't know, or whatever, that's a different story. I was once screwed by an iPod refresh before I knew about macrumors back in '03they doubled the space on me in 3 months. So I can understand the people that didn't know any better. But when you know, I have no sympathy for you. Some people need a new laptop because it's their livelihood, I get that, and I feel for those people. But the people that have waited because they can and then decide to stop waiting, have no reason to complain. For those people, you should just be glad that you didn't have to keep waiting like the rest of us. Enjoy your fine, outdatedbut not obsoletetechnology and stop complaining because you only have yourself to blame.
I also hate the people that try to say that these machines are plenty of machine for anyone. Quit generalizing. When you have an 8-core machine with 8GB of RAM and you're rendering a :30 spot that takes 4 hoursin After Effects mind you, not even Cinema or Lightwaveyou'll understand where we come from when we say we want more and we want it faster.
I guess the question I'm driving at is, why settle for 8 month old tech when updates are imminent?
You know what's really funny? The iPad is perfect for the people that say "it does what I need" and yet these people are looking at MBPs and saying how much they dislike the iPad. How ironic.
I would love to get a MBP now, regardless of all the "refresh" hype. The only reason I'm waiting is to see what exactly the "refresh" brings. And I would feel pretty silly if the new ones were the same price as the current model with more features. Otherwise, the current models still seem much better than any PC I've looked at.
Another know nothing.
i agree, apple aren't going to relase a new MBP until the iPad has starting selling well, they wont replace the iPad advert in their website anytime soon
Wrong. Apple has done this many times before. New MBP's will be here soon..most likely no longer than a month from now.
I should also mention, before anyone tries to rip me for it, that I am indeed waiting on a MBP refresh and that I have not made a single complaint other than disappointment at the absence of the update. My first gen 15" Al PowerBook finally died last year and as it wasn't my main machine, I've held off replacing it.
I have never made an argument one way or the other on whether the current machines are good enough or, more importantly, not good enough.
I will state the fact that, for what I do, I need the fastest machine that I can afford and so the current machines are not good enough for me. And so I have patiently and, until now, quietly waited for the refresh.
I saw someone saying that it'd be hypocritical to complain about the current machines and then not buy the top of the line model maxed out. I don't see the hypocrisy. They simply want more for their money. There are other machines on the market that have been refreshed. It would be stupid to buy an Apple laptop right now if you didn't need to. It would only be hypocritical to not buy the exact model you were hoping they'd reveal after you said that's what it would take for you to buy.
Yep, and then we'll get those little boxes back at the bottom of their site to put that announcement in. Regardless of how important we see this update, to the general public, the iPad will be far more important.
The only reason you don't have to go to an HP, Dell, Sony, Toshiba, Lenovo, etc. board for rumors is that, unlike Apple, they update their products almost as soon as Intel releases chips.
Apple just takes longer. I don't exactly know why, other than assuming that they actually care more about making it correctly than making it quickly.
I have never made an argument one way or the other on whether the current machines are good enough or, more importantly, not good enough.
I will state the fact that, for what I do, I need the fastest machine that I can afford and so the current machines are not good enough for me. And so I have patiently and, until now, quietly waited for the refresh.
I saw someone saying that it'd be hypocritical to complain about the current machines and then not buy the top of the line model maxed out. I don't see the hypocrisy. They simply want more for their money. There are other machines on the market that have been refreshed. It would be stupid to buy an Apple laptop right now if you didn't need to. It would only be hypocritical to not buy the exact model you were hoping they'd reveal after you said that's what it would take for you to buy.
Yep, and then we'll get those little boxes back at the bottom of their site to put that announcement in. Regardless of how important we see this update, to the general public, the iPad will be far more important.
The only reason you don't have to go to an HP, Dell, Sony, Toshiba, Lenovo, etc. board for rumors is that, unlike Apple, they update their products almost as soon as Intel releases chips.
Apple just takes longer. I don't exactly know why, other than assuming that they actually care more about making it correctly than making it quickly.
They would probably go the way of the dodo if they were using the same tactic as apple in a windows computer market.
I'm not trying to bash you in the least, so please don't take this that way. I can tell that you're a level-headed person and you give sound advice. I'd give the same because I'm also in the production industry. However, what you said here is of utmost importance to what I'm about to say.
You must also realize that there are also more types of pro users. I am a pro user. I work in production during the day, and sometimes I freelance. I am, however, a pro on a budget. And I just don't have the budget to be able to upgrade whenever I'd like. I need the best machine I can get because I'm going to be stuck with it for a while. Right now I get some good mileage out of a Rev. A 24" iMac. I need to replace my old, dead G4 PowerBook. I don't need the laptop per se, though it will be much faster than the iMac. However, when I decide to travel or I have to go out of town, I can still work on the MBP and then I'll need it to be the fastest I can afford because my work eats clock cycles for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I am definitely a pro user, but in this case I can wait the extra few weeks I'm banking on it taking for the refresh.
Perhaps I can explain my situation more simply. As it stands, I don't need to be mobile. But when the refresh happens, I'll get it and I'll be mobile. If I had grabbed it now I'd have a slower machine for when I do travel. I suppose it still boils down to "I can wait." But, that doesn't take away the fact that I'm a pro. If I needed to work and travel tomorrow, it'd be a different story. Perhaps you didn't say anything contrary to that. I guess I'm just trying to counter the connotation that pros always need to buy what's out right now.
I'd also like to point out that having the latest spec is not always about bragging rightsnot even for regular users. Having the latest spec means I can get more work done in the same amount of time. It means I can bill clients quicker. It means that I can composite more and render less. It means I can spend more time doing and less time waiting. Honestly that's the most important thingthe only time you can buy time is when you invest in a fast computer. Hell, it even means that I might actually be able to break free from the stuttering I'm starting to get on Vimeo when I relax on my iMac and check out other people's work rather than working on mine.
Allow me to repeat the part that is vital for everyone: It means we can spend more time doing and less time waiting. The real difference between a pro user and a normal user is the amount of time they spend waiting and the amount of money it costs them to wait.
Anyway, I think the problem that most people have, and that I have, is when people that don't really need the tech decide to wait, give up waiting weeks before it's released, and then come on here to justify their purchases by saying that what they bought is good enough for everyone.
If you absolutely can't wait, you're not stupid for buying. You're getting the best that's available at the time and it's not outdated until something better comes along. Most people, however, say "I can't wait anymore" when really all they are is impatient. Those people have no right to complain when they gave up before the race was finished.
My only other gripe is that I can't write this off of last year's taxes!
He prompted you to make this comment which I laughed at, which gave me an extra boost of joy as I close out my day.
That's pretty much how it always happens. Sometimes they drop the price of the new models as well by a small amount $100 or so, but they usually just up the hardware at the same price point.
Probably. Apple, however, has the big advantage of being the only manufacturer able to install Mac OS on their machines. And that also puts them into a different, but similar market.
You must also realize that there are also more types of pro users. I am a pro user. I work in production during the day, and sometimes I freelance. I am, however, a pro on a budget. And I just don't have the budget to be able to upgrade whenever I'd like. I need the best machine I can get because I'm going to be stuck with it for a while. Right now I get some good mileage out of a Rev. A 24" iMac. I need to replace my old, dead G4 PowerBook. I don't need the laptop per se, though it will be much faster than the iMac. However, when I decide to travel or I have to go out of town, I can still work on the MBP and then I'll need it to be the fastest I can afford because my work eats clock cycles for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I am definitely a pro user, but in this case I can wait the extra few weeks I'm banking on it taking for the refresh.
Perhaps I can explain my situation more simply. As it stands, I don't need to be mobile. But when the refresh happens, I'll get it and I'll be mobile. If I had grabbed it now I'd have a slower machine for when I do travel. I suppose it still boils down to "I can wait." But, that doesn't take away the fact that I'm a pro. If I needed to work and travel tomorrow, it'd be a different story. Perhaps you didn't say anything contrary to that. I guess I'm just trying to counter the connotation that pros always need to buy what's out right now.
I'd also like to point out that having the latest spec is not always about bragging rightsnot even for regular users. Having the latest spec means I can get more work done in the same amount of time. It means I can bill clients quicker. It means that I can composite more and render less. It means I can spend more time doing and less time waiting. Honestly that's the most important thingthe only time you can buy time is when you invest in a fast computer. Hell, it even means that I might actually be able to break free from the stuttering I'm starting to get on Vimeo when I relax on my iMac and check out other people's work rather than working on mine.
Allow me to repeat the part that is vital for everyone: It means we can spend more time doing and less time waiting. The real difference between a pro user and a normal user is the amount of time they spend waiting and the amount of money it costs them to wait.
Anyway, I think the problem that most people have, and that I have, is when people that don't really need the tech decide to wait, give up waiting weeks before it's released, and then come on here to justify their purchases by saying that what they bought is good enough for everyone.
If you absolutely can't wait, you're not stupid for buying. You're getting the best that's available at the time and it's not outdated until something better comes along. Most people, however, say "I can't wait anymore" when really all they are is impatient. Those people have no right to complain when they gave up before the race was finished.
My only other gripe is that I can't write this off of last year's taxes!
He prompted you to make this comment which I laughed at, which gave me an extra boost of joy as I close out my day.
That's pretty much how it always happens. Sometimes they drop the price of the new models as well by a small amount $100 or so, but they usually just up the hardware at the same price point.
Probably. Apple, however, has the big advantage of being the only manufacturer able to install Mac OS on their machines. And that also puts them into a different, but similar market.
Not sure why this needs 8 pages of discussion
At the risk of sounding pedantic, the discussion boils down to simple economics..
Assuming everyone here can and wants to buy just one laptop, there are a couple things we can all agree on:
1. There's a greater than 0 gain from getting the new model above the old model. Let's call this G.
2. There's a greater than 0 cost from waiting one extra day. Known as opportunity cost, or the loss of utility from not using the current model. Let's call this c.
3. There's an unknown amount of days until the next MBP is released. Let's call this random variable d.
And of course, let's note that G and c are different for each person.
Thus, assuming risk-neutrality, we can deduce that for someone, if:
G > c * E[d] (E[.] denotes expected value.)
Then they should wait because the gain from the new computer outweighs the cost of waiting.
Otherwise if:
G < c * E[d]
Then they should buy the current computer immediately, because waiting costs too much.
If G = c * E[d], then the person would be indifferent between the two.
So what does this mean about the people described in the threads above?
If you have another computer that's viable, then the cost of waiting (c) is low, then you're likely making the right decision by waiting.
If you're a professional and your computer went fubar, then your cost of waiting (c) is high, so you're likely making a good decision to buy.
If you're in a position to benefit highly from better hardware, you're gain (G) is high, so you're more likely to wait.
If you're a college kid that wants the "coolest new hardware," you're likely to have high G, irrespective of whatever hardware the refresh may bring.
If you are an average computer use who does nothing more than check e-mail and surf the internet, you're gain (G) is low, so you probably don't gain much or anything by waiting.
If you just want CPU specs and get off on having "fast hardware," irrespective of the efficiency of the software underneath or the appearance of the machine (or sneers from nearby Mac users), you're likely to get a PC.
(If you're checking MacRumors everyday for a MBP refresh like me, you are likely under the impression that E[d] is low, meaning even if I somewhat need it, I'm going to wait.)
At the risk of sounding pedantic, the discussion boils down to simple economics..
Assuming everyone here can and wants to buy just one laptop, there are a couple things we can all agree on:
1. There's a greater than 0 gain from getting the new model above the old model. Let's call this G.
2. There's a greater than 0 cost from waiting one extra day. Known as opportunity cost, or the loss of utility from not using the current model. Let's call this c.
3. There's an unknown amount of days until the next MBP is released. Let's call this random variable d.
And of course, let's note that G and c are different for each person.
Thus, assuming risk-neutrality, we can deduce that for someone, if:
G > c * E[d] (E[.] denotes expected value.)
Then they should wait because the gain from the new computer outweighs the cost of waiting.
Otherwise if:
G < c * E[d]
Then they should buy the current computer immediately, because waiting costs too much.
If G = c * E[d], then the person would be indifferent between the two.
So what does this mean about the people described in the threads above?
If you have another computer that's viable, then the cost of waiting (c) is low, then you're likely making the right decision by waiting.
If you're a professional and your computer went fubar, then your cost of waiting (c) is high, so you're likely making a good decision to buy.
If you're in a position to benefit highly from better hardware, you're gain (G) is high, so you're more likely to wait.
If you're a college kid that wants the "coolest new hardware," you're likely to have high G, irrespective of whatever hardware the refresh may bring.
If you are an average computer use who does nothing more than check e-mail and surf the internet, you're gain (G) is low, so you probably don't gain much or anything by waiting.
If you just want CPU specs and get off on having "fast hardware," irrespective of the efficiency of the software underneath or the appearance of the machine (or sneers from nearby Mac users), you're likely to get a PC.
(If you're checking MacRumors everyday for a MBP refresh like me, you are likely under the impression that E[d] is low, meaning even if I somewhat need it, I'm going to wait.)
logimech can you make an equation on what apple is thinking doing this to us
Haha, I know you're joking, but you actually bring up a very interesting point...
Apple does 2 things:
1. They don't tell us early when updates are coming out.
2. They often do silent updates.
These imply solid business tactics from Apple, by getting loyal Apple customers to buy when they should wait. (Pay same/more for lesser hardware.)
For reference, here's our "decision equation":
G = c * E[d]
1. They don't tell us early when updates are coming out.
As most people can imagine, people are less likely to buy a product if they know the update is coming out in a couple days. This is due to a distinct d, allowing people to make an informed decision because all relevant information is known.
However, Apple wants people to pay more than they should. And people do precisely this if they buys when G < C * d. By not announcing beforehand (keeping d an unknown), at least a few people make a "bad decision" (buy when they shouldn't), giving Apple more/same for less.
2. They often do silent updates.
This gives the public a perception that updates happen less often than they do, increasing the perceived expected number of days until updates (E[d]). An average person (even the average Mac fanboy) never sees the Mac Buyers Guide, and thus has no idea how often the MBP is updated. For me, I was under the impression that MBP were updated maybe once every 1-2 years. By increasing the right side of the equation, they are again getting people to make "bad decisions" (buy before they should).
Of course, Apple can do this because they have many loyal customers, who won't buy anything else (or at least cringe while they do so). Most other computer manufacturers don't have such a luxury, and thus cannot implement the same tactic. (They announce products early so people will wait for theirs rather than buy competitor products.)
Thus, Apple's whole business strategy revolves around developing loyal customers. They do this by creating huge brand value, product differentiation, and "intra-product synergy".
Look at everything Apple does, and you'll see what I mean:
Brand value - Everything associated with Apple is highly polished and top notch: the Apple Store, their packaging, the media buzz, the "experience."
They want you to love and trust the brand.
Product differentiation - Their product designs, operating system, patents.
Make stuff with features you can't get anywhere else.
"Intra-product synergy" - Apple products often are complements: iTunes Store [iTunes-enabled computers, iPods, iPhones, iPads], App Store [iPad, iPhone, and iPod Touches], iBookstore [iPads, iTunes-enabled computers*, iPhones*, iPod Touches*], sync, MobileMe.
The more you buy Apple products, the more you want to buy other Apple products. (The more you use Apple, the better it gets.)
* Likely coming soon to promote such synergy.
So to conclude, Apple knows exactly what they are doing. They are not in the business of pursuing short-sighted sales, they are in the business of building loyal customers for long-term prosperity. And they are doing it extremely well. Which is just another reason I admire the company.
Or the entire organization comes to a complete halt to devote all resources to the pointless iPad. I understand Apple is catering to the mass population which makes them their dollars but they seem to be moving further and further away from taking new tech and making it better. They are in the mode of inventing new ways of doing things. I am fine with that but the iPad is so limited for a 1.0 device. They should have learned from the iPhone. Hopefully a majority of people will wait until version 2.0 before they spend the money on an iPad.
Apple's ego is flowing over and it is starting to show. The last great breakthrough they had was back in 2007 when they introduced the first iPhone. Everything else since then has been kind of meh.
Shh! Multi-molecular Portal. Dude, pay attention!
That's what I was referring to when I said "making it correctly." I wasn't just talking about the MBP but the iPad, and other devices, as well.
They did learn from the iPhone as you yourself said. Their last great breakthrough was the iPhone in 2007. You implied that the 1st gen iPhone was underwhelming yet you still think it was their last great device.
That's what I was referring to when I said "making it correctly." I wasn't just talking about the MBP but the iPad, and other devices, as well.
They did learn from the iPhone as you yourself said. Their last great breakthrough was the iPhone in 2007. You implied that the 1st gen iPhone was underwhelming yet you still think it was their last great device.
Quite often actually. They usually do it when the form factor stays relatively the same. I'd say that there are probably more silent updates than there are announced ones, at lease as far as the pro models go.
So to conclude, Apple knows exactly what they are doing. They are not in the business of pursuing short-sighted sales, they are in the business of building loyal customers for long-term prosperity. And they are doing it extremely well. Which is just another reason I admire the company.
Excellent assessment. I too find their tactics admirable.
Guys, if you look at the buyer's guide, you'll see for over the last 3 years MBPs have always been refreshed at exactly 8 months gaps.
10/2006
6/2007 - 8 months
2/2008 - 8 months
10/2008 - 8 months
6/2009 - 8 months
I'm hoping we'll see new models in February, probably in the middle or at the end.
Honestly I can't wait any more either !
10/2006
6/2007 - 8 months
2/2008 - 8 months
10/2008 - 8 months
6/2009 - 8 months
I'm hoping we'll see new models in February, probably in the middle or at the end.
Honestly I can't wait any more either !
Face the facts: I don't think you know anything either.
How would you know apple is going to release a new MBP? Are you a psychic? Can you tell the future? Probably not. You probably don't know what will happen to you in the next minute let alone next month. I think you are full of it.
What I state in my post is straight facts. Is there a MBP with build in blue ray? As of 28Jan10, there ISN'T one available. Is there a MBP with build in HDMI? As of 28Jan10, there ISN't one available. You don't need a phD to know that.
So right! No one can predict what Apple plans are. Let's face it. After using Mac OS for about 8 years now, I can tell it has the edge over Windows. However, since Windows 7 has been released, the gap between Mac OS and Windows is narrowing down. Windows 7 is user friendly and quite stable. In regards to MBP, their design is nice. It's lightweight, thin, made of aluminium, etc. However, you can build a much more powerful laptop PC for around the same price as a 15 inches MBP. Think about Alienware. Their laptops are a bit heavier and thicker, but the design is rock solid and it blows any MBP out of the water. Core i7, turbo charged GTX 260m GPU, Blu-Ray drive, backlit keyboard, HD LED monitor... I've just bought one and I'm a very happy camper. Some MBP users might try to convince themselves they did the right choice, their MBP is not overpriced and that hardware specs should not matter. But actually, they are wondering how come their friends got a much better customized PC laptop for less than what they paid for a Mac. And, for those saying that the PC will fall apart after a few months, let me remind you that Macs, like PC's, are pretty much built the same nowadays, using pretty much the same components. My Alienware M15x is a top notch PC, reliable, usable and fun one. My 13 inches MBP is fun to use for web browsing and listening to iTunes. That's pretty much it.
Man this thread is funny.
At the end of the day, if you're in the market to buy...you're gonna have to jump on the wagon some day and when you do that latest and greatest machine you waited so long for will become old tech as fast as you can utter the words arrandale - its inevitable..... so I say why wait, or if you do, use common sense and do your research, for there really is no excuse for the average apple fanboy to buy an apple product right before its refreshed.
I personally didnt think there would be a mbp refresh at wednesdays event just gone... but one at WWDC 10...maybe? who knows.. But personally would I wait 5 months...probably not.
Before the 13" mbp I bought last summer after WWDC 09, which by the way still feels like the other day, my last mac was a G4 iMac I had for nearly 5 years I think, so thats a good sign that it will probably be a few more years before I replace this current mac...
yet I'd say you wouldn't be *too* pleased if you just splashed out on a new gadget only for a refreshed one to hit the stores a month later...would you?