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Apple Watch of any version, or just a normal watch?


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Bit hard to say the market is not fluctuating as the result of new market competition when you read this......

https://www.npd.com/wps/portal/npd/...atches-and-reset-market-dynamics-reports-npd/

Anyhow i am OUT.

Fare thee well.

And do please, take care to carefully shut the door as you exit.

Nothing is contradicted. My post regarding big price drop is for the general market flow at any given time.

Where as the article is reporting for specific period ending Q4 2018 and thats i meant the market is fluctuating.

Its logic and common sense , if new competitor is invading your market the answer is to reduce price and fight back by any means. If not for the high end luxury watches then for the lower or medium.


I thought you had decided to depart the thread.

And - seriously - would you buy an Omega or Rolex (or any other high end watch) from Amazon?

My own Omega comes from an authorised Omega seller; personally, I would not purchase such a timepiece from any source other than an authorised vendor.
 
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I said I was done, but oh well.

The last article linked just says that one particular company has seen their secondary above-retail prices fall from 2018 highs(and smart watches were quite strong in 2018, I'll add).

The article STILL says that in demand watches(like the Rolex Daytona I keep mentioning as a good example) are bring above-retail prices, or at least that's what I get from the article.

It's also worth mentioning that Rolex is doing everything in their power to clamp down on the secondary market for all references, including those long out of production.
 
For what it's worth, sites like Jomashop or WatchWarehouse, which do sell real watches, are not authorized dealers. They're considered gray market dealers. And thus you will not have any warranty accompanied with your new watch. Should you need repairs, you will pay full price under the regular warranty period which your new watch won't come with. That is why it's cheap. Additionally, most authorized dealers will not take or send you watch into for servicing. You'll have to send it in to Jomashop or WatchWarehouse for repairs or major adjustments.

That is why most watches online are "cheap" than retail prices. Because the warranty you get with an otherwise real watch won't be honored by an authorized dealer or the manufacturer. Anytime I've had to send in one of my Omegas for maintenance or repair, I've had to present a warranty card and proof of purchase I bought from an authorized dealer. They can look it up and confirm it is what it is and I bought from an authorized dealer. I fill out and sign some papers and I get my watch in a week to two weeks depending on what needs to be done.

Here's the catch. You can always present a price you see on a gray market site to an authorized dealer and they can haggle on the price some. I've done this a few times, including a Patek for my father.
 
For what it's worth, sites like Jomashop or WatchWarehouse, which do sell real watches, are not authorized dealers. They're considered gray market dealers. And thus you will not have any warranty accompanied with your new watch. Should you need repairs, you will pay full price under the regular warranty period which your new watch won't come with. That is why it's cheap. Additionally, most authorized dealers will not take or send you watch into for servicing. You'll have to send it in to Jomashop or WatchWarehouse for repairs or major adjustments.

That is why most watches online are "cheap" than retail prices. Because the warranty you get with an otherwise real watch won't be honored by an authorized dealer or the manufacturer. Anytime I've had to send in one of my Omegas for maintenance or repair, I've had to present a warranty card and proof of purchase I bought from an authorized dealer. They can look it up and confirm it is what it is and I bought from an authorized dealer. I fill out and sign some papers and I get my watch in a week to two weeks depending on what needs to be done.

Here's the catch. You can always present a price you see on a gray market site to an authorized dealer and they can haggle on the price some. I've done this a few times, including a Patek for my father.

Two and half years ago, I inadvertently broke the crown on my Omega Deville; I brought it into the authorised dealer from where I had purchased the watch seven years earlier, and they examined it, and informed me that it would have to be returned to Omega for repair, as they lacked the actual parts.

That took the best part of - actually more than - a month (the crown had broken around 10 days before Christmas, and it was late January by the time the watch was eventually returned to me).

Not only had Omega repaired the crown, they did a full service and cleaning of the watch, and issued me with a fresh two year warranty, along with updated relevant paperwork. Now, granted, it was not cheap, but one has that wonderful peace of mind when one purchases through authorised vendors and channels.

Re the gray market, I have wondered about some of the watch sites that I browse online.

While I don't doubt that the timepieces are usually authentic (rather than knock-offs, or fakes), I do wonder occasionally about their provenance.
 
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Two and half years ago, I inadvertently broke the crown on my Omega Deville; I brought it into the authorised dealer from where I had purchased the watch seven years earlier, and they examined it, and informed me that it would have to be returned to Omega for repair, as they lacked the actual parts.

That took the best part of a month (the crown had broken before Christmas, and it was late January when the watch was eventually returned to me).

Not only had Omega repaired the crown, they did a full service and cleaning of the watch, and issued me with a fresh two year warranty, along with updated relevant paperwork. Now, granted, it was not cheap, but one has that wonderful peace of mind when one purchases through authorised vendors and channels.

Re the gray market, I have wondered about some of the watch sites that I browse online.

While I don't doubt that the timepieces are usually authentic (rather than knock-offs, or fakes), I do wonder occasionally about their provenance.
Authorized dealers will sometimes accept a gray market for repair if they can work it out with the manufacturer. I know Rolex is very, very, very particular. Omega less, but still picky. They usually have the authorized dealer open it and inspect it and will deny a warranty if anything runs afoul. They sell real watches, there's just no seal of authenticity even though it's a real watch. It presents a huge headache if you resell or a very, very expensive bill.

That said, Omega usually does good by their customers. I think they replaced a few crystals, especially one that had a nick in it somehow.
 
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For what it's worth, sites like Jomashop or WatchWarehouse, which do sell real watches, are not authorized dealers. They're considered gray market dealers. And thus you will not have any warranty accompanied with your new watch. Should you need repairs, you will pay full price under the regular warranty period which your new watch won't come with. That is why it's cheap. Additionally, most authorized dealers will not take or send you watch into for servicing. You'll have to send it in to Jomashop or WatchWarehouse for repairs or major adjustments.

That is why most watches online are "cheap" than retail prices. Because the warranty you get with an otherwise real watch won't be honored by an authorized dealer or the manufacturer. Anytime I've had to send in one of my Omegas for maintenance or repair, I've had to present a warranty card and proof of purchase I bought from an authorized dealer. They can look it up and confirm it is what it is and I bought from an authorized dealer. I fill out and sign some papers and I get my watch in a week to two weeks depending on what needs to be done.

Here's the catch. You can always present a price you see on a gray market site to an authorized dealer and they can haggle on the price some. I've done this a few times, including a Patek for my father.

That's the exact place i bought my Rado from, is that good enough?

https://www.rivoligroup.com/locator/rado-dubai-mall
 
I'd guess that's a couple hundred dollars.

The link you posted is data that has been used for a specific intent - to drive traffic and stir up story. The reality is that it is disrupting the low tier ($100-$3000) of the Swiss industry due to its demographics. They are the same demographics that would replace their timepiece with a smartwatch in a heart beat.

For the mid/upper tiers, I don't see it affecting much. The people in this tier actually enjoy the craft that goes into their watches. Certain Rolex models today still have a waitlist. If somehow the entire Swiss watch industry is put out of business, it'd be great for those of us that own distinct time pieces, especially in these tiers. The value will go even higher.



The biggest problem with Rado is it depreciates heavily such that it's recommended by most watch enthusiasts to pursue it second hand if someone really wants one.

Why, in your opinion, does Rado depreciate so heavily?
 
[MOD NOTE]
A number of posts were removed due to rules violations please stay on topic and debate the topic and do not attack members.
 
FWIW, I have been informed by a good friend who works full time as a watchmaker for an AD for a bunch of the major brands(Rolex, Omega, etc) up in NJ that Rolex is going to stop supplying parts for several older movements-the 1500 series and the 3035 and related-by the end of 2021.

What that means is that he can no longer accept any watches for repair with those movements after the end of the year because he is required to give a 2 year warranty on all repairs.

After the end of this year, watches with those movements will have to go to Rolex for service, where presumably they will continue servicing them indefinitely.

As a practical matter, that's first of all a lot more expensive-probably 2-3x the cost of a watchmaker affiliated with an AD. Second, it's REALLY going to be an issue for a lot of the high dollar collectible Subs and the like.

To the second point, as it pertains directly to me, my own ref. 16013 has a diamond dial that as far as I know it didn't come from Rolex with. I've always been a bit neutral toward it, but if I send it to Rolex for service, they will return it to me EXACTLY as it left the factory-meaning I'll get charged for the "correct" dial, and they won't return my diamond dial to me or give me any credit for it. To that end, I'm going to have mine serviced before the end of the year, then source a genuine dial of the correct style from Ebay(they run $75-100) and have him install it when he services it. When it comes time for it to go to Rolex, I'll probably still get dinged for a refinish or at least a relume, but it won't be as bad as buying a new dial.

On old Subs and the like-many bring big money if they're "all original"-i.e. have degraded radium paint or just have a nicely toned dial or otherwise with "patina." Rolex won't honor the instructions to "leave the dial alone"-it will come back looking like it's brand new, which of course kills the value.

It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out in the next few years with regard to these older, very collectible(and expensive) references.

As it is, the basic Rolex Perpetual movement in any form-whether time only, date, or day-date-is a good sturdy movement with nothing terribly exotic. Any reasonably competent watchmaker can take one apart, clean it, oil it, put it back together, and have it running again. That's assuming you don't need parts, though, which will now be only available on the secondary market.

Screw down crowns in general, and in particular crowns on Oyster cases, are considered a wear items and are supposed to be replaced at every service. It's also typical to replace the mainspring as part of the service-newer alloys are considered to be better than old carbon steel springs(I have ones from the 50s that have been fine and allowed the watch to rate well within specs with nothing but a quick solvent bath and regrease), but at the same time wristwatch mainsprings are a bit more sensitive to this than the larger PW springs I usually deal with. The 3035 has a brass bushing in the pillar plate that is known to wear with time and is also typically replaced as part of the service-although admittedly depending on how particular the customer is my inclination would be to just jewel the bushing(which is how it should have been done in the first place) and never look at it again. Still, though, it will make many folks anxious about having their watches serviced.
 
Why, in your opinion, does Rado depreciate so heavily?

In my opinion:

1. The history isn’t something they have marketed well, nor is it something people associate with luxury. Using Tag Heur as an example, it really didn’t get big amongst a general crowd until Tiger Woods started becoming an ambassador.

2. The price point at this is slightly above entry level and slightly below luxury. I bet when we ask each other would you prefer to have a Rado at 1500$ or anything else around that price range, I’m sure you would choose the latter.

3. The design like most niched watches are an acquired taste. When you think of timeless watches, Rado typically isn’t one of the first many people think about.

4. The movement isn’t something enthusiasts yearn for. I believe they use off the shelf ETA and they also have marketed their quartz movement. So really what you are buying into is their case designs just like Bell & Ross.

With that being said, people like watches for what they are aside from intrinsic value. I sometimes hate to admit that I like circular B&R case designs even though they are overpriced for what they are
 
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In my opinion:

1. The history isn’t something they have marketed well, nor is it something people associate with luxury. Using Tag Heur as an example, it really didn’t get big amongst a general crowd until Tiger Woods started becoming an ambassador.

2. The price point at this is slightly above entry level and slightly below luxury. I bet when we ask each other would you prefer to have a Rado at 1500$ or anything else around that price range, I’m sure you would choose the latter.

3. The design like most niched watches are an acquired taste. When you think of timeless watches, Rado typically isn’t one of the first many people think about.

4. The movement isn’t something enthusiasts yearn for. I believe they use off the shelf ETA and they also have marketed their quartz movement. So really what you are buying into is their case designs just like Bell & Ross.

With that being said, people like watches for what they are aside from intrinsic value. I sometimes hate to admit that I like circular B&R case designs even though they are overpriced for what they are

Excellent reply - and I thank you for taking the time and trouble to write it.

Personally, I have never cared for the design of the Rado watches I have seen - (for that matter, I'm not really partial to Tag Heuer, either), but, while personal taste is an entirely subjective matter (and mine lies towards those classic watches of the 50s and 60s made by Omega, Rolex - including Tudor - IWC, and so on), your well reasoned response makes total sense.
 
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FWIW, I have been informed by a good friend who works full time as a watchmaker for an AD for a bunch of the major brands(Rolex, Omega, etc) up in NJ that Rolex is going to stop supplying parts for several older movements-the 1500 series and the 3035 and related-by the end of 2021.

What that means is that he can no longer accept any watches for repair with those movements after the end of the year because he is required to give a 2 year warranty on all repairs.

After the end of this year, watches with those movements will have to go to Rolex for service, where presumably they will continue servicing them indefinitely.

As a practical matter, that's first of all a lot more expensive-probably 2-3x the cost of a watchmaker affiliated with an AD. Second, it's REALLY going to be an issue for a lot of the high dollar collectible Subs and the like.

To the second point, as it pertains directly to me, my own ref. 16013 has a diamond dial that as far as I know it didn't come from Rolex with. I've always been a bit neutral toward it, but if I send it to Rolex for service, they will return it to me EXACTLY as it left the factory-meaning I'll get charged for the "correct" dial, and they won't return my diamond dial to me or give me any credit for it. To that end, I'm going to have mine serviced before the end of the year, then source a genuine dial of the correct style from Ebay(they run $75-100) and have him install it when he services it. When it comes time for it to go to Rolex, I'll probably still get dinged for a refinish or at least a relume, but it won't be as bad as buying a new dial.

On old Subs and the like-many bring big money if they're "all original"-i.e. have degraded radium paint or just have a nicely toned dial or otherwise with "patina." Rolex won't honor the instructions to "leave the dial alone"-it will come back looking like it's brand new, which of course kills the value.

It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out in the next few years with regard to these older, very collectible(and expensive) references.

As it is, the basic Rolex Perpetual movement in any form-whether time only, date, or day-date-is a good sturdy movement with nothing terribly exotic. Any reasonably competent watchmaker can take one apart, clean it, oil it, put it back together, and have it running again. That's assuming you don't need parts, though, which will now be only available on the secondary market.

Screw down crowns in general, and in particular crowns on Oyster cases, are considered a wear items and are supposed to be replaced at every service. It's also typical to replace the mainspring as part of the service-newer alloys are considered to be better than old carbon steel springs(I have ones from the 50s that have been fine and allowed the watch to rate well within specs with nothing but a quick solvent bath and regrease), but at the same time wristwatch mainsprings are a bit more sensitive to this than the larger PW springs I usually deal with. The 3035 has a brass bushing in the pillar plate that is known to wear with time and is also typically replaced as part of the service-although admittedly depending on how particular the customer is my inclination would be to just jewel the bushing(which is how it should have been done in the first place) and never look at it again. Still, though, it will make many folks anxious about having their watches serviced.


So maybe this is the cynic in me, but what are the chances Rolex offshoots a security service that picks your watch up with guard and transfers it to a service center much like an armored car does for financial institutions, and charges for that service if you want to be sure?
 

Says $2,125.00 AUD. The US Rado site lists that at $1,500.00 USD. $2,125.00 AUD is a hair over $1,496 USD. $4 is a hefty discount?

https://salera.com.au/collections/rado/products/rado-centrix-diamonds-quartz-watch-r30929712#


6+ year old watch. It's overstock being sold at MSRP prices. The actual watch wasn't sold for more than $1000 in the US. Less actually. Worth less than $400 used.
[doublepost=1563462123][/doublepost]
That's the exact place i bought my Rado from, is that good enough?

https://www.rivoligroup.com/locator/rado-dubai-mall
Going to say 'Yes' based on what I can see on Rado's authorized dealer pages, but I'm hesitant because the Dubai Mall you linked to is but one mall of dozens in Dubai and doesn't seem to have an address per-say because of how massive it is. Best to contact Rado and ask, but Rivoli group is listed several times on their authorized dealer pages.
[doublepost=1563462292][/doublepost]
Tag Heuer
I was. I liked their Monaco the most and really the only one. Even with what I know, I'd buy a Gulf Racing variant of the Monaco if I found one in a store. And haggled a bit because it's not "new."
 
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Excellent reply - and I thank you for taking the time and trouble to write it.

Personally, I have never cared for the design of the Rado watches I have seen - (for that matter, I'm not really partial to Tag Heuer, either), but, while personal taste is an entirely subjective matter (and mine lies towards those classic watches of the 50s and 60s made by Omega, Rolex - including Tudor - IWC, and so on), your well reasoned response makes total sense.

Likewise, I’m in the same boat and pursue similar. I only mentioned Tag because of the amount of marketing they spent. I definitely wouldn’t rate Tag as a highly sought item considering ADs (Authorized Dealers) will discount them much more than other luxury watches.
 
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It has never been.
All of the RADO watches have either quartz or standard ETA movements (Rado is a part of the Swatch Group), so from a horological perspective, they are barely average.

I doubt you have any clue about the watch business so i won't reply. I suggest you read the history of Rado and what they are made of then come back to us.
[doublepost=1563496845][/doublepost]Lol since when is Rado become Swedish?
[doublepost=1563497084][/doublepost]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rado_(watchmaker)

Always has been Swiss and its Luxury whether you like it or not. By saying Rado is just average you are telling us you absolutely have no clue about watches.
 
Rado watches are on the same level as Tag Heuer if not better. Many are made of ceramic and other luxry materials.
 
I doubt you have any clue about the watch business so i won't reply. I suggest you read the history of Rado and what they are made of then come back to us.
[doublepost=1563496845][/doublepost]Lol since when is Rado become Swedish?
[doublepost=1563497084][/doublepost]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rado_(watchmaker)

Always has been Swiss and its Luxury whether you like it or not. By saying Rado is just average you are telling us you absolutely have no clue about watches.

Where did he say anything other than it being a Swiss brand? The Swatch group was quite literally started with the intent of merging brands to "save" the Swiss watch industry.

Swatch makes everything from Swatch-branded watches at the low end all the way up to Breguet at the high end. Over the whole spectrum of Swatch brands, RADO is definitely in the lower tier-right about at the same level as Hamilton and Tissot. There's nothing wrong with any of those brands, but they're a solid step below what I'd consider as their "signature" brand of Omega and others around that same grouping like Blancpain.

Like it or not too, the preference among buyers(and brands) has moved to using movements unique to that brand(I hesitate to say in-house, since it could be argued that any Swatch group product using an ETA movement is in-house). The upper tier brands in the Swatch group tend to follow that, while the lower tier brands use ETA movements. Even in the middle of the range, Omega has distinguished itself with the Co-axial escapement.

That's not to say that there's anything wrong with ETA movements, but it's definitely considered a mark against a brand these days.

Now, I'll ask you-since we seem to be arguing horological knowledge-can you offer me your opinion on the co-axial escapement? Do you consider its presence in the brand to be an overall positive? Would you buy a watch with one?
 
I doubt you have any clue about the watch business so i won't reply. I suggest you read the history of Rado and what they are made of then come back to us.
Seems the real situation is vice versa.
A person can't be taken seriously, who considers RADO the BMW of watches when it has been using standard ETA movements, or cares to bring as an example fashion watches, mainly employing either cheap Chinese or Japanese movements. The case is the same with TAG Heuer that lately uses mostly Sellita movements. And on top of all who thinks that The Swatch Group is Swedish.

Come back to you? Don't make me laugh.

By the way, you were "out" already three days ago, nevertheless keep posting your non-senses.
Your better take Scepticalscribe's advice and "take care to carefully shut the door as you exit."
 
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