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Why can't apple stop using lg screens and just use Samsung.
- Thread starter FatGuy007
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My LG screen is flawless as well. Can we please stop making these kind of claims and deterring people from experiencing the rMBP? Are we really second-guessing Apple here and saying they haven't done their R&D homework before they brought this out to the market? Really? There is a strong reason Apple chooses all its suppliers. Stop nitpicking and bringing out the ruler to see who's is longer, and just enjoy the product.
I've just reproduced at will the ghost in two rMBP base models at local apple store. The testcase is the following:
1) Set your desktop background to solid dark grey color
2) Launch a Safari window, and don't move it for a couple of minutes
3) Move the window or show desktop (F11 key)
You'll see for few seconds a ghost of your window...
The screens I tested are manufactured by LG. No available Samsung screens here...
Another strange thing happened too: I set the gpu to discrete with gfxcardstatus, played around changing desktop backround color and image, switched to integrated gpu, then I couldn't change anymore with happened too when when I changed the gpu to discrete with gfxcardstatus. I was not able to able to change anymore the desktop image background or color... Screenshot
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nobody is "nitpicking". there is a very real and very pronounced issue with image retention that seems to be happening. if you dont have it, it doesnt mean the rest are imagining it. blind denial is as bad as blanket panic. nobody is second guessing apple. Manufacturing defects happen and this is happening on a large scale. nobody is going to just "shut up and enjoy the product" when they pay in excess of 2 thousand dollars and two weeks later you close your broswer windown and its burned into your desktop.
Hmm, I don't see a major color shift on mine. The viewing angle does seem to be a bit worse than most IPS screens.
Now those magenta/green hues - the wait it works is that from one angle you'll see that magenta color, and the other you'll see a greenish color (but is generally less noticeable). So what happens when you're sitting head on is that the corners of the screen are at a sharp enough angle to show those colors. It was a fairly common complaint on monitors like the NEC 2490Wuxi and 2690Wuxi... but there were many complaints about the IPS glow once they removed the polarizer for the updated versions.
Here's a similar picture to yours on one of those older monitors
In this case it's an LG 2420r
Yep, I have been trying but I cannot see any ghosting on mine. I have had others look at it also. Not the slightest trace of ghosting on my LG panel. I have only had it since Wednesday. Maybe I'll take a trip to the Apple store and play with the display models and see if I can produce it on any of the floor models. As for my machine I don't have any ghosting / image retention whatsoever - I am looking very very hard for it.
It is for such circumstances that Apple Care exists, and Apple is more than happy to replace them for you. I have worked for Apple long enough to know that they will go out of their way to please a customer if such an unfortunate incident should occur after paying $2k for their product. Nobody is asking to ignore this issue. If there is an issue, go put your Apple Care money to work, that's why it exists. And it is not nearly as widespread to warrant baying for Apple's head. Do you have any statistical proof that this is occurring on a "large" scale? I wouldn't consider the members of MacRumors to be large scale considering how many people use Macs. Has any of this prompted Apple to issue a public release saying that it is looking into the issue, as was the case with the yellowing of iPad screens? No. So why the cries for LG's head and Apple's?
When the Late 2011 Air was launched there was literally a frenzy over the display, due to there being two venders LG Phillips & Samsung. Some were even posting here on MacRumors how they could return their new Air with an LG display, before the machine had even arrived. Ironically when AnandTech reviewed the display`s they recommended the LG by a hair surprise, surprise the hysteria evaporated instantly. If by any means LG display`s are inferior to Samsung`s Apple would never use them in the first place.
If one vender`s quality was significantly inferior to the others, Apple would simply instruct them to fix it, or they would be up for replacement. Without knowing production numbers it`s not possible to exactly quantify, however i would suggest the primary reason you see more post regarding LG display`s is that LG is supplying the majority of display`s. I simply base this assumption on common sense if there was a quality issue with LG, Apple doesn't strike me as having a great deal of tolerance in such matters, especially with their "flagship" product which very much has to succeed.
As a community don't allow baseless posts to sway your decisions on returning perfectly good systems in the hope of some visual nirvana. If your display has issue Apple will fix it or replace the machine, however if you are in false hope of receiving a superior display by getting a system with a differing vender, you are only wasting your time along with many others and risk actually receiving a defective system.
As the individual you must filter the content of the internet very carefully, everyone is a "Pro", everyone is the "expert", for the most part they are not, some are well informed, the majority are not. If you need help to make a significant purchase, or qualification on hardware, wait for a recognised source, not the kid with 10 minutes hands on in Best Buy
If one vender`s quality was significantly inferior to the others, Apple would simply instruct them to fix it, or they would be up for replacement. Without knowing production numbers it`s not possible to exactly quantify, however i would suggest the primary reason you see more post regarding LG display`s is that LG is supplying the majority of display`s. I simply base this assumption on common sense if there was a quality issue with LG, Apple doesn't strike me as having a great deal of tolerance in such matters, especially with their "flagship" product which very much has to succeed.
As a community don't allow baseless posts to sway your decisions on returning perfectly good systems in the hope of some visual nirvana. If your display has issue Apple will fix it or replace the machine, however if you are in false hope of receiving a superior display by getting a system with a differing vender, you are only wasting your time along with many others and risk actually receiving a defective system.
As the individual you must filter the content of the internet very carefully, everyone is a "Pro", everyone is the "expert", for the most part they are not, some are well informed, the majority are not. If you need help to make a significant purchase, or qualification on hardware, wait for a recognised source, not the kid with 10 minutes hands on in Best Buy
first off, i was replying to the poster who said "stop nitpicking" as if to imply this isnt really a problem, and it is. Secondly, i have exercised my options and apple has been EXTREMELY good about returning, exchanging until the problem is solved. I have no problems with apple or their customer service. Theyre the best in the business.
Now do i have proof this is happening on a large scale? yes, these forums. I seriously doubt by a stroke of luck ONLY macrumors members have mysteriously only gotten bad panels. And as much as i love apple, we ALL know theyd never publicly state theres a problem. Apple knows it, we know it, and you know it. theres no reason to act like one in a million have this issue. Lets just be real okay, theres a significant problem. Apple is taking care of it, and hopefully all will be well.
This isnt a case of someone mistaking a piece of dust for a dead pixel and calling for apples head. this is a real problem, and a significant problem, and apples making right on it as best they can. But please dont sit there and tell me its not happening on a large scale. the same with people having pinholes in their cases, creaking cases, and other various problems that arise with mass production on a lightning pace. it happens.
you have to be kidding me. So in your attempt to insult me you're insinuating hundreds of posts here, with proof, is all just "in their minds" and only inclusive to people on this forum? that NOBODY in the world is having any problems, except for the statisticly impossible scenario of ONLY people who log into macrumors? please tell me thats a joke right?
edit. by the way, there are many MANY other reports and postings on hundreds of websites reporting this issue, not just macrumors.. so this is either the biggest hoax perpetrated on apple or theres a real problem. i know you love apple but seriously.. how can you deny this? i saw it with my own eyes. i guess youre saying im lying or lucked out and got the only screen with image retention.
Perhaps you didn't read the page I linked to.
This is a forum with thousands of members. A circle jerk of members repeatedly posting in one thread sounds exactly like voluntary response bias.
Edit: In response to your edit, blogs eat this ******** up because it drives views, and also because they don't understand elementary sampling theory. By sharing this with others; either through word of mouth, posting on Facebook, or posting on your blog/twitter, you are only increasing the effect that voluntary response has.
"I'm an undergraduate in college and I have the right to be smug on the internet because three years in college have made me decidedly smarter than anyone else"
So Brave
Unfortunately, it does, at least once you start basing your arguments on obvious fallacies. If you don't trust my word on this, then you're more than welcome to continue reading academic journals by those who hold Ph.D.s.
There are only 4 or 5 screen manufacturers in the world with enough production capability to make the screens needed. EXACTLY like the TV world, you may have a different brand TV but the LCD panel was most likely made by Sharp, LG, or one or two other companies.
So you do believe you're honestly smarter than every human being on the planet after three years of undergraduate studies?
How can you assume the quality of the screens are equivalent without any statistical proof? Are you just putting all your faith in Apple?
Looks like you are. Your blind fanboyism is showing through despite three whole years of undergraduate studies.
Don't you think Apple has a financial interest in keeping reports of quality inconsistencies from customers?Did Apple feel it was necessary to pull the Toshiba SSDs used in last year's MacBook Air off the market, even though reviews showed it to be ten times slower in some circumstances than the Samsung SSD?
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Well, I think the consensus on the MBA subforum (also bolstered by Anandtech in his review of the 2011 and 2012 Airs) was that the included profile with that machine matched the Samsung display more than the LG. Custom calibration profiles posted there narrowed the difference down to be almost unnoticeable.
I've also read that the profile which comes after installing 10.8 also drastically helps the LG's appearance.
I've also read that the profile which comes after installing 10.8 also drastically helps the LG's appearance.
Actually, that would be just one year of undergraduate studies. I don't understand if you are actually doubting that this is response bias.
As for your second, more interesting, point: how does replacing a MacBook until you get a Samsung display any different from believing, without proof, that Samsung displays are better?
Unfortunately for you, the reality is that, since there is no proof for one screen manufacturer being any better than the other, your only justified course of action would be to keep replacing the laptop until you get one that's to your satisfaction. Making an observation that one manufacturer has shown consistently better results, based on your own experiences, is perfectly fine, and if enough people support this with further evidence, then there would be sufficient reason to investigate the issue properly. However, until we have some statistical evidence (free of response bias) that one manufacturer is better, you cannot keep alleging that LG consistently makes worse displays.
i read the page you linked to, and it has nothing to do with whats going on, no matter how much you try to insult me. i studied psychology for 11 years so you trying to pull magic tricks out of your hat doesnt impress me.
if your assertions are correct, then only a miniscule number of people would have this problem, and that in and of itself wouldnt make sense since it would be a problem arising from mass production, meaning "masses" of people have the problem.
so you are either saying nobody has an issue (which is proven they do), or the IR problem isnt from manufacturing, and is a "magical" defect that rarely occurs.
or the truth of the matter is "masses" of people have a production run problem with their panels. for someone as smart as you are, i would figure your statistical background would yield more realistic results than an attempt to link me to a term relating to bias and not validated results.
I didn't say that.
I made a sarcastic comment earlier in this thread about Samsung screens being better, but I've never once exchanged my laptop. I've expressed the belief that the Samsung and LG displays are probably different enough to be significant before (which is a reasonable belief given their different manufacturers and use of different technologies), and noted that reviewers generally seem to like PLS screens a little better than IPS screens. Of course, none of this is statistically verified, so if your standard of proof is that high, there's nothing I can do for you. Unfortunately, the notebook market does not work that way. How many "quality controversies" have actually been studied thoroughly by the technology press? Apple responded to the iPhone 4 antenna issue because of the major backlash, but they never once mentioned the possibility that one type of SSD used in last year's MacBook Air could be slower than another type… A mere allegation is enough to damage a company's reputation. I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that nobody is ever going to do a statistical survey of rMBP screens due to their cost and the impossibility of doing blind surveys of the displays online. It's just not practical to provide the evidence that you want - you either pay Apple for hundreds of notebooks or you get response bias.
This isn't a major scientific discovery or a clinical trial, it's people buying a damn notebook. The need to verify allegations absolutely here is significantly lower.
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There are no validated results yet—none in favor of the view that there is a discrepancy, and none in favor that there is a real difference among all Samsung and LG displays in rMBPs.
There are obviously screens with issues. You just can't claim that LG is in some way worse as if it were fact. I have no problems with people presenting their evidence, but keep in mind that you can't make any inferences about how widespread the problem is from just the responses in these threads.
The problem is that people are blatantly claiming that Samsung displays have a lower chance of being faulty.
Until people learn to ask for proof and to consider how widespread the alleged problems are, I reserve the right to be a dick about presenting possible explanations. Every time someone tries to argue that there -might- not be a problem, they are buried by zealots who believe a sample size of three (as in, how many rMBPs they themselves have exchanged, since that is the only relevant information for their conclusions) is evidence of a more widespread issue.
tninety: I agree. For all we know, Apple has done their own rigorous study and has found a problem with LG screens. If they have, they don't believe the difference to be big enough to warrant any action. This is just a possibility though, one can't assume that the difference even exists in the first place, which is what people in these threads generally do.
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Samsung is an PLS panel and LG is an IPS panel. So yes,there is a "real difference" between the two. And yes, there is a validated result of the burn in problem. here it is
Never claimed LG is worse. And i can most definitely judge how widespread the problem is based on these threads, as it contains people from all over the globe reporting they have the issue. Once again, I find it hard to believe only people who visit macrumors are affected. that would be one hell of a coincidence.
There have been numerous threads about samsung panels being bad, from screen bleed to dead pixels.
i wont disagree with the latter
rigorous study is a moot point after a product leaves the assembly line, maybe for next years model but at this point exchange is the only viable solution for a customer. Hence apple doing hundreds of exchanges on this product, which is also known as a "warranted action"
im done...
This. There is no statistical proof that LG displays are inferior, or that Samsung displays are superior in anyway. Otherwise, it would've been pretty obvious to the eye. And as such, there are minute differences between each display that is manufactured on such a large scale, as there are differences between two pairs of Levi's. MacRumors is hardly any kind of sampling or indicative of a general defect in a product. So lets chalk this up as an Apple Care issue that can and should get resolved, and call it a day? There is no need to spread unnecessary panic and have even more new users cropping up on MacRumors and claiming issues that they assume are widespread because 10 people on MacRumors said so. I'm not saying that those individuals don't have a problem, just that as with any piece of technology, nothing is perfect.
I think people with LG screens aren't testing for it properly.
I've gone through 4 Retina Macbook Pro's all of them have the issue of screen retention all were LG screens.
Tested all of them at my local Apple store and reproduced it and guess what they all had LG screens.
I have a friend with a Samsung screen and they had no issues and I was unable to reproduce the issue.
I've gone through 4 Retina Macbook Pro's all of them have the issue of screen retention all were LG screens.
Tested all of them at my local Apple store and reproduced it and guess what they all had LG screens.
I have a friend with a Samsung screen and they had no issues and I was unable to reproduce the issue.