shhh, youre making sense. not allowed on this thread. youre simply hallucinating and theres nothing wrong. statistics prove youre more likely having a frontal lobe tear than the likelyhood of a bad panel.
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Why can't apple stop using lg screens and just use Samsung.
- Thread starter FatGuy007
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shhh, youre making sense. not allowed on this thread. youre simply hallucinating and theres nothing wrong. statistics prove youre more likely having a frontal lobe tear than the likelyhood of a bad panel.
What was your procedure for testing them? I ask because I just received my rMBP today and it has an LG screen that so far has been absolutely, flawlessly beautiful.
lol you're not the first to say this...
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4034848?start=600&tstart=0
People who say this say they didn't have it... weeks later they come back to the thread... guess what they have it.
Fact of the matter being its an issue. Don't wanna believe me read the thread follow the people.
So because you've had an experience that others haven't, it means that the other people aren't testing correctly? How about the flip side of that...other people aren't having a problem, so you must be imagining things.
It would be just as valid of a statement as the one you made.Someone from that Apple thread...
"I felt the same as you did the first month; but a month later I have tried reproducing the burn-in effect and found that I can. You may want to try again after a few weeks to ensure that you don't have the problem. You will also have to decide for yourself how important an issue this is and what the appropriate course of action is for you. As for me, it's not super important but I do want it fixed eventually because I tend to keep my notebooks for a long time (last two lasted 6.5 years and 7.5 years, respectively) and I am uncomfortable with a problem that might get worse over time. So unless it is a bad idea to do so, I will wait a few months before acting on this problem."
"I felt the same as you did the first month; but a month later I have tried reproducing the burn-in effect and found that I can. You may want to try again after a few weeks to ensure that you don't have the problem. You will also have to decide for yourself how important an issue this is and what the appropriate course of action is for you. As for me, it's not super important but I do want it fixed eventually because I tend to keep my notebooks for a long time (last two lasted 6.5 years and 7.5 years, respectively) and I am uncomfortable with a problem that might get worse over time. So unless it is a bad idea to do so, I will wait a few months before acting on this problem."
I've tested mine on many occasions. And I've had some static UI elements for several hours at a time. No noticeable IR (I don't want to rule it out, but it definitely doesn't appear under what I'd consider normal usage). Even the dock - which is always there hasn't burned in.
My iMac at work on the otherhand gets IR very easily with my usage.
So because you've had an experience that others haven't, it means that the other people aren't testing correctly? How about the flip side of that...other people aren't having a problem, so you must be imagining things.
Really? How can you not see there is an issue here. 4 screens... really? My friend has a Samsung on the first try and has no issue. The Apple store Retina's have it and they're all LG. People all over the place again this thread
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4034848?start=600&tstart=0
Are having the problem and guess what screen it is.. an LG.
How is this not an issue? I'm not the only one going through this. Sure maybe the first few are hiccups but the fact that I've gone through 4... and the Apple store has it. And there is an on going thread that people are experiencing the same issue with the same screen. You'd have to be an idiot to not see that something is up.
The thing is, not every LG has IR. Mine is such an example - and I've had the laptop for almost a month now.
There are plenty of Samsungs with issues too. Backlight bleed in particular is one such issue (which seems to be an issue with all PLS displays).
Never said I didn't believe you. Only asked what procedure you used to test, which you failed to answer altogether.
You had an issue. I'm not saying you didn't. But you having a problem does not equate to everyone having a problem. Even with the sample sets you're looking at (here and on the Apple site) it's still a very small portion of people who've purchased the rMBP. You're also drawing from a group of people that are likely to be extremely vocal if there is a problem. Unhappy people are always much, MUCH more vocal than happy people. So yes, you had a problem. Yes, there are other people with problems. No, you can't use that limited information to declare that every LG screen is bad. You can't use that limited information to assume that people that aren't seeing it aren't looking hard enough. I'm not trying to minimize your problem. I'm just saying that there's not enough information to draw those conclusions.
People need to qualify that there is a MAJOR difference in IPS LG screens and the TN's used in the classic Macbook's. I have seen most panels over the last 10 years and the TN based LG panels are quite literally terrible. Very green cast. Washed out and in the Hi-Res Macbook 15" case also blurry and headache inducing. Now either Apple is profiling them wrong or they are incapable of reaching desired temperatures. The Samsung's are much more natural and look closer to professional calibrated screens. The Retina and the Cinema displays are all completely different beasts and have wonderfully accurate colors and decent contrast ratios and can be profiled to almost Eizo accuracy. In fact Eizo uses LG panels in a few of their display's.
After lurking in all these threads whilst I wait for my rMBP to arrive, I've come to the conclusion that some people have a higher threshold of 'perfection' than others. Yours is obviously rather high. As for me, I am so unobservant that I doubt I would notice such a thing. My dad used to claim our plasma TV has an image burned into it but I could never see it!
At the end of the day: if some people are having IR issues but it doesn't bother them, or they're not noticing it, don't beat them up about 'not testing correctly'. Everyone has their own threshold of acceptability and so long as each person is happy, what's the problem?! I suppose if anything it's just a good advert for AppleCare!
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Can I ask... what is backlight bleed?
And I agree with you, I'm not trying to fight or argue with you
And yeah sure I'll agree that there isn't "statistics" and such for this issue but you have to clearly see that there is some sort of issue going on and I personally wouldn't want to risk getting another LG screen and having to play the waiting game to see if I have an issue that I honestly shouldn't even be testing for in the first place.
When I got the first 2 Retina's I thought maybe it was a hiccup. Got to 3 and 4 and I thought something was up... started looking around and found that thread. Again I have a friend with a Samsung screen (had it for a few weeks usage) and was unable to produce the image yet when I was on my 4th Retina I reproduced it in under 4 hours.
I mean eventually it'll get ironed out and hopefully 5th time will be the charm.
How can it be a sharp enough angle sitting directly in front of the screen? Again I understand seeing those colors at angles but I don't when I'm sitting in front of it.
It's when the backlight doesn't light the display uniformly, and causes some bright spots on an otherwise dark screen. In some cases this bleeding can be very bright at the edges of the display. It's just generally a sign of the LCD not sitting perfectly with the light.
Here's an example on a PLS display. Sometimes you also get larger splotches growing from the corner - generally on cheaper displays
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Your eyes are roughly center with the screen. So to the center of the display, your eyes will be perpendicular. But if you draw a straight line from your eyes to the corner of the display, your eyes will definitely not be perpendicular. The actual angle will depend on the size of the display and distance your eyes are from it.
IPS tech has always been associated with a fair amount of IR. Been that way since the 35ms response time 1st gen IPS panels through S-IPS, H-IPS, e-IPS, AS-IPS, etc. Part of the deal with that tech. You also get 178º viewing and amazing color accuracy. But another downside is the purple hue in blacks at angles. The bleed I see in that PLS pic is at the bottom not the corner. Unless you are talking about that underscore looking thing. IN the consumer space Samsung makes the better panel. In the high-end LG just dominates.
Backlight bleed doesn't have to be at the corners.
And I've owned several IPS displays including this current rMBP. None have exhibited IR. I do have a 24" iMac at work with really bad IR. Seems to be heat related.
The rMBP's LG panel has an A-TW polarizer. The effect is identical to what you'd see on an NEC 2490Wuxi - which was quite a high end monitor. IPS glow is virtually eliminated, at the expense of some very minor colors seen off angle. The only monitors available today w/ the A-TW polarizer are really expensive, such as the HP Dreamcolor LP2480zx. So this monitor definitely counts as a high-end monitor, which is a sector where LG dominates, as you said.
Because of all the people complaining about the colors, Apple will probably remove the A-TW polarizer in future revisions. Which is a shame because it really made watching dark scenes in movies a very nice experience.
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More nonsense: I have no doubt that you personally had issue, however the vast majority of users with LG panels likely have no issue. How many Retina panels have LG produced and how many have you actually looked at? I saw exactly the same rubbish spouted about the 2011 Air`s and after comparing numerous 13" MBA`s I could only conclude it was nothing more than personal preference, even Anandtech validated the same.
Just maybe those with good LG panels are in the minority, or maybe a minority of people are blowing things out of proportion as usual, inferring that all display`s produce by one vendor are tainted.
Obviously no exactly perpendicular but I'm still in front of the screen and not looking at it at an angle that will show the obvious colored hues.
I'm still not convinced that seeing those hues while looking at the screen normally are considered normal..
It's basic trig man, it's not going to be anywhere near perpendicular to either edge. The closer you sit to the screen, the greater that angle will be.
The angle to a corner will be arctan(0.5*screen width / distance to eyes). So assuming you sit 18" from the display, corner will be offset about 20º -- it is enough to see the hues.
Here's the effect on an A-TW monitor that is not the rMBP but also has similar hues.
And if you look at your own screen completely off angle (turn it left or right), you'll find the hues and shapes change
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I thought everyone was complaining about the standard panel colors.
The retina's I have seen are exquisite. Then again most users may not even know what correct color looks like given the sub $500.00 display's usually at Best Buy, Circuit City, rtc. All green and blue blow outs. I did not know the polarizer was part of the deal. That is even more awesome as I was always a fan of those NEC's prior to them removing it. I'll pony up for retina if they relax the form factor and let me get my hands in it. Maybe down the road.
I think panel age has a lot to do with the IR that I have seen in IPS tech. I am currently using a 2006 NEC 20WMGX2 AS-IPS and it has it but not initially. Thanks for info.
I thought everyone was complaining about the standard panel colors.
The retina's I have seen are exquisite. Then again most users may not even know what correct color looks like given the sub $500.00 display's usually at Best Buy, Circuit City, rtc. All green and blue blow outs. I did not know the polarizer was part of the deal. That is even more awesome as I was always a fan of those NEC's prior to them removing it. I'll pony up for retina if they relax the form factor and let me get my hands in it. Maybe down the road.
I think panel age has a lot to do with the IR that I have seen in IPS tech. I am currently using a 2006 NEC 20WMGX2 AS-IPS and it has it but not initially. Thanks for info.
I actually have an NEC 20WMGX2 as well - one of my favorite monitors period. Really was great for its time (and still is, asides for the size).
But yeah, when comparing to that monitor, I can definitely tell the rMBP (at least the LG version) has an A-TW polarizer. Take a look at the difference (sharp angle to exaggerate the glow, but it's still helpful for shallower angles)
I don't understand you guys who posting pics here with black screen ..
Jeez yeah there is white light but you don't know why it is ..
It is NOT FAULT for christ sake..
And what you working on laptop and staring to the black screen ??
CCFL displays will HAVE white light underneath cos there is inverter which generates heat.. I have CCFL on mac and I do not look or watch back screen .. It is so stupid this..
When I have normal picture or am on internet or film am not bothered
Just dont stare to black scren and u will be fine ..
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go to nvidia options and decrease gamma
Jeez yeah there is white light but you don't know why it is ..
It is NOT FAULT for christ sake..
And what you working on laptop and staring to the black screen ??
CCFL displays will HAVE white light underneath cos there is inverter which generates heat.. I have CCFL on mac and I do not look or watch back screen .. It is so stupid this..
When I have normal picture or am on internet or film am not bothered
Just dont stare to black scren and u will be fine ..
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go to nvidia options and decrease gamma
I don't understand you guys who posting pics here with black screen ..
Jeez yeah there is white light but you don't know why it is ..
It is NOT FAULT for christ sake..
And what you working on laptop and staring to the black screen apparently.
CCFL displays will HAVE white light underneath cs there is inverter which generates heat.. I have CCFL on mac and I do not look or watch back screen .. It is so stupid this..
When I have normal picture or am on internet or film am not bothered
Just dont stare to black scren and u will be fine ..
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go to nvidia options and decrease gamma
It's not a gamma issue. All IPS screens have glow off angle unless they have an A-TW polarizer. A-TW polarizers are generally rather expensive, so most monitors don't have it. Apple apparently thought it was worth putting it in our rMBPs.
Here's a head-on comparison. Blacks are fairly similar. But as soon as you start tilting a little bit, the non A-TW display starts glowing:
And what the heck are you ranting about? Are you saying all displays should have backlight bleed? They shouldn't. Many of us watch movies on our displays. Many movies are letterboxed. So bleed will be especially apparent then. And it doesn't have to be a pitch black screen to be noticeable. It's just easier to take pictures of backlight bleed on dark screens
+ most displays today have LED backlights. So bleed is even less acceptable in that case.
If you're okay with spending $2200+ on a computer and accepting defects, that's upto you. But others shouldn't be expected to.
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