Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Status
Not open for further replies.
A Mac user that believes his internal hardware trumps pc hardware would be in for a shocker if he looked at PC components. Apple isn't cutting edge on most of the internals. OSX doesn't need a lot of power in the first place. Actually neither does a stripped down W7 either. That's besides the point. The hardware ergonomics and feel, and durability, are for the most part cutting edge and industry high. Apple is known for displays, hardware (outside),customer support, innovation, and of course the operating system. You could argue a lot of PC companies are known for the same.

Fact is, the insides of Apple Computers are not above the current crop of PC offerings. This is due to a closed hardware manufacturing channel. Apple manufactures Apples. Many people bring innovations to PC hardware almost daily. PC refreshes are continual, every day.
 
In terms of parts, their laptop line is the same as most other laptop manufacturers, though you're likely paying more for less specs. Apple excels in driver and software optimization (well, except for graphic cards) and having a gorgeous chassis.
 
A Mac user that believes his internal hardware trumps pc hardware would be in for a shocker if he looked at PC components. Apple isn't cutting edge on most of the internals. OSX doesn't need a lot of power in the first place. Actually neither does a stripped down W7 either. That's besides the point. The hardware ergonomics and feel, and durability, are for the most part cutting edge and industry high. Apple is known for displays, hardware (outside),customer support, innovation, and of course the operating system. You could argue a lot of PC companies are known for the same.

Fact is, the insides of Apple Computers are not above the current crop of PC offerings. This is due to a closed hardware manufacturing channel. Apple manufactures Apples. Many people bring innovations to PC hardware almost daily. PC refreshes are continual, every day.
PC vendors offer a greater selection of what claim to be better options; however, the reality of the situation is that many of the parts offered are far worse in terms of reliability than the parts that Apple would choose to build their own systems with. Cutting edge and broken next month is not a priority for Apple. Demonstrated reliability and ease of use are the two most important priorities for Apple. You can't determine what's reliable if you always use cutting edge technology because then there isn't enough time between release and use in products to determine if it passes the demonstrated reliability test in the real world. The difference between the PC vendors and Apple for why the PC vendors release stuff as soon as it comes out is because the PC vendor doesn't care about reliability, but Apple does. Apple doesn't want their own image sullied because a product from another manufacturer fails to function as intended, but I guess PC vendors just will play their tired old games of pretending the problem is the user when issues do actually arise and make it very difficult to get the repair done. Even when Apple messes up, getting a fix for the problem is generally a stress free experience unless you are being intentionally rude with them or you actually are partly to blame for the issue.
 
I think your thinking about specs - Yes, lots of Windows computers have better specs than Macs, but have you used a MacBook Pro? I mean, you find another vendors computer with that sort of design...
 
PC vendors offer a greater selection of what claim to be better options; however, the reality of the situation is that many of the parts offered are far worse in terms of reliability than the parts that Apple would choose to build their own systems with. Cutting edge and broken next month is not a priority for Apple. Demonstrated reliability and ease of use are the two most important priorities for Apple. You can't determine what's reliable if you always use cutting edge technology because then there isn't enough time between release and use in products to determine if it passes the demonstrated reliability test in the real world. The difference between the PC vendors and Apple for why the PC vendors release stuff as soon as it comes out is because the PC vendor doesn't care about reliability, but Apple does. Apple doesn't want their own image sullied because a product from another manufacturer fails to function as intended, but I guess PC vendors just will play their tired old games of pretending the problem is the user when issues do actually arise and make it very difficult to get the repair done. Even when Apple messes up, getting a fix for the problem is generally a stress free experience unless you are being intentionally rude with them or you actually are partly to blame for the issue.

Apple is currently using Intel's latest processors in the MBP models along with Thunderbolt. And Thunderbolt is an untested technology. Both Windows and Macs use some of the same major components from the same major suppliers, ie processors, graphics cards, hdd, RAM. IMHO, what sets the Mac apart is the chassis quality, lcd and trackpad. Operating system differences are a preference or necessity, but I must say that the Mac OS integrates very well with the hardware and software.
 
I think that Macs are inferior because I skinned my knuckle on the sharp cardboard under the plastic handle on the box my laptop came in. That would have never happened with a PC. Although, I have gotten minor cuts while building or upgrading PC desktops. It's not fair to compare laptops to desktops, though.

Additionally, I don't like the aluminum case. It should be brass painted with black enamel. PCs don't have this, but I'm just sayin'.

And furthermore, glossy is better than matte and matte is likewise better than glossy. Scientific studies have proven this beyond a shadow of a doubt.

In conclusion, PCs are better than Macs because I don't like Apple Stores and because of the USB3/fingerprint/ESATA/Bluray conspiracy. PCs have them in order to make you happy. Macs don't have them to make you sad. This is the dreaded "Sad Mac" syndrome, the treatment of which is to donate your expensive and not more than 1 year old Mac hardware to me. I'll take care of it and I will give you in return a $500 gift card for Best Buy to redeem for a new PC. I will also include a Bluray of The Karate Kid remake. You will feel better.

Hi.
 
Last edited:
Have you touched a macbook pro? Best keyboard ever, sturdy, thin, light and high end feel to it.

Screen is awesome and the internal DESIGN is the best yet. Go find a similar machine with all this features and the reliability that a operating system based on UNIX gives you.

Good luck in your search.

Agreed. Got my MacBook Pro 15" about a month ago and the Honeymoon is still full steam ahead. It feels great to the touch ... the keyboard is superior to anything else I've tried ... the screen is excellent and clear as can be ... the speed is just about everything you could hope for. I run Digital Performer and Final Cut on this thing and it just rips along. The lighted keys are most enjoyable. The one piece punched aluminum body is a work of highly functional art. Man, what is not to like here? I have 5 Dell laptops that have all let me down - their Windows operating systems are outdated and inefficient. It's a Mac world - until something better comes along. Microsoft made some decent software, but the Windows operating system is old and in the way. PC Windows users listen up! Join the Apple ranks and be saved. You will love it. Not to mention the great customer service and how easy it is to get one to one personal training (for $90.00 a year!). Their customer service is the best - and the cheapest thing they sell.
 
I just switched from my ancient 3/2009 15", which since I got it, had to OCZ Vertex 1 128 gig drives in RAID0. With my new machine (see sig) I'm running those same ssds. I'm planning on upgrading them to a pair of undecided 256 gig drives, for space not performance increase.

So, I'm looking at the results of a Xbench disk test and I see a max write of 337 MB/s and 286 MB/s read. If I halve that and convert to gbit/s it's 1.31 for write and 1.11 on the read. Far below the max of the SATA2 bandwidth of each controller, right?

What I'm wondering is even if the SSD is SATA3 and the controller is SATA3, is the non-testbench most perfect performance that the manufactures spec the drive at is the controller speed even relevant? Even if I get a new pair of drives that are 2x the performance of the current ones in the same configuration, it's still under 3gbit/s for each controller. Are people finding that they're saturating the SATA3 controller on the optical drive interface?

The other thing I'm wondering about is how a RAID0 volume on these machines reacts to one member drive being SATA3 and the other SATA2. I suspect it won't make a difference because it's only software RAID. In my years of experience with actual RAID in the real world everything's always been on dedicated controllers in machines somewhat larger than a laptop.

So, I know that there's a new generation of SSDs about to hit the virtual store shelves but that there seems to be ones already out there like the Crucial C300 series (which will probably get cheaper soon) that are better than what I have now (and bigger, I want a pair of 256) but not better than what'll soon be available. Is it worth waiting for faster drives which might not show any demonstrable improvement over the current high end ones?

I would appreciate any thoughts and insights that you folk might have on these questions.

I hope that this is on topic for this forum.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
At least mine was computer related.

In a broad sense, yes. But in a more defined sense, no. You were referring to the OS (software) while this thread specifically is about the hardware (proof: the title).

I'm not trolling. And neither are you, right?
 
The main thing that is overlooked in Apple's computers are the displays. When PC users build a computer, you hear about gpus, cpus, memory, hard drive, etc. Nobody talks about display technology. And yet, a very VERY large cost of macs goes into the displays.
 
The main thing that is overlooked in Apple's computers are the displays. When PC users build a computer, you hear about gpus, cpus, memory, hard drive, etc. Nobody talks about display technology. And yet, a very VERY large cost of macs goes into the displays.

Macs have very nice displays and a fantastic touchpad. I think that most of the other manufacturers skimp on the display. I really don't know why they are so lacking with the touchpads.
 
Macs have very nice displays and a fantastic touchpad. I think that most of the other manufacturers skimp on the display. I really don't know why they are so lacking with the touchpads.

When HP copied the Mac style touchpad, many people complained about it, because they found the idea of a 1-click touchpad confusing.

HP-Envy-17-2.png
 
...Screen is awesome... Go find a similar machine with all this features and the reliability ...

Macs have very nice displays ... I think that most of the other manufacturers skimp on the display...

Seriously? Have you seen the Dell RGBA displays on their XPS line? Plus, you have the option of 1920x1080 on the 15.

Plus, blu-ray, plus a better graphics card, better warranty with accidental protect, etc. etc

And did I mention you can get it for under $1k?

Look. I love Apple, but I want a pro model with a pro screen.
 
Seriously? Have you seen the Dell RGBA displays on their XPS line? Plus, you have the option of 1920x1080 on the 15.

Plus, blu-ray, plus a better graphics card, better warranty with accidental protect, etc. etc

And did I mention you can get it for under $1k?

Look. I love Apple, but I want a pro model with a pro screen.

I haven't seen a new XPS, so I can't fairly comment on the screen, but I will read up on it. Thanks for pointing that out. Personally I wouldn't be able to use 1920x1080 on a 15", but I'm sure that would be a benefit to many. From what I see on the Dell site you are looking at $1250+ to equip it the way you have suggested, not including which warranty you want to buy for the accidental damage etc., so it is over $1300 with accidental damage warranty for 1 year. No doubt at all it is cheaper. The Mac has a better chassis and touchpad plus the integrated software, IMO. I'd also give Apple the edge in customer service and repairs.
 
When HP copied the Mac style touchpad, many people complained about it, because they found the idea of a 1-click touchpad confusing.

HP-Envy-17-2.png
Forget the fact that, aesthetically speaking, the trackpad should go in the center. Of course, having an extended keyboard on a laptop would make it awkward in any position you put it.

Bottom line: Apple has this sort of stuff figured out. PC vendors like HP need to play catch up.
 
Forget the fact that, aesthetically speaking, the trackpad should go in the center. Of course, having an extended keyboard on a laptop would make it awkward in any position you put it.

Bottom line: Apple has this sort of stuff figured out. PC vendors like HP need to play catch up.

It's only on the 17 inch model where the trackpad isn't centre. On the 13 and 15 inch models, where it doesnt have a numberpad stuck on the end of the keyboard. It was the concept of the Clickpad, people found it confusing that the whole pad could be used as a click button, and were trying to click on the left and right click markers.

HP-Envy-14-06-big.jpg

I dont know why so many people complained about it, when its the very same thing that gets heaps of praise for in the Macbook Pro's. I guess you can't please everyone.

Although on the other side, not all the people were complaining about it, others were saying they loved it. There dont seem to be any comments in the middle, they either seem to love it, or hate it.
 
Last edited:
It was the concept of the Clickpad, people found it confusing that the whole pad could be used as a click button, and were trying to click on the left and right click markers.

Maybe HP should put a fingerprint reader on the trackpad? :D
 
I haven't seen a new XPS, so I can't fairly comment on the screen, but I will read up on it. Thanks for pointing that out. Personally I wouldn't be able to use 1920x1080 on a 15", but I'm sure that would be a benefit to many. From what I see on the Dell site you are looking at $1250+ to equip it the way you have suggested, not including which warranty you want to buy for the accidental damage etc., so it is over $1300 with accidental damage warranty for 1 year. No doubt at all it is cheaper. The Mac has a better chassis and touchpad plus the integrated software, IMO. I'd also give Apple the edge in customer service and repairs.

Just to be clear, we're talking about this beast:

2Dell-XPS-15-300x294.jpg


It's much thicker and heavier than the MBP, also not the same build quality, inferior touchpad etc...
It's great if people are more interested in specs and if it fits their need at that price point but let's not pretend that the price is comparable based on specs alone :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
Just to be clear, we're talking about this beast:
It's much thicker and heavier than the MBP, also not the same build quality, inferior touchpad etc...
It's great if people are more interested in specs and if it fits their need at that price point but let's not pretend that the price is comparable based on specs alone :rolleyes:

I think a better comparison for looks would be these 2 laptops.

HP-Envy-17-front-right-open-on-white.jpg

HP Envy 17

2.3Ghz Quad-Core i7
1GB GDDR5 Radeon 6850
8GB DDR3 RAM
750GB 5400RPM HDD
1920x1080 Resolution
Blu-ray Drive

$2,159.99

MBP17i5-25-xlarge.jpg


Macbook Pro 17"

2.3Ghz Quad-Core i7
1GB GDDR5 Radeon 6750
8GB DDR3 RAM
750GB 5400RPM HDD
1920x1200 Resolution
DVD Drive

$2,949.00


Im not comparing Operating Systems, because thats purely down to preference, and you cant compare the 2 as rival "specs".
The HP has roughly same size and materials etc (Aluminium + Magnesium and not Unibody Aluminium). The Macbook bends the Envy over the table for battery life of course, and I dont much care for HP's reliability record (9th in the world). I dont know why PC companies just dont stick a higher capacity battery into laptops like Apple. Although in the end, I went with a Sony Vaio, for the reliability, Sony being the 3rd most reliable computer company in the world, the Asus and Toshiba, (1st and 2nd) didnt offer the specs I wanted.

When you mention build quality, do you mean reliability rates? Or just "how sturdy" it feels?
 
My comment was specifically aimed at the comparison with the XPS 15, which is way cheaper than a MBP 15. Just wanted to pointed out that there was a very good reason for that. :D

I'm not denying that there are higher quality PCs. I have owned several of them before. The Envy is indeed a good example for that and sure enough the price difference is much smaller...

By build quality, I mean how sturdy it feels, how well the hinge works etc
Other features are obvious (trackpad) while some are a matter of preference like you said (OS).
 
By build quality, I mean how sturdy it feels, how well the hinge works etc
Other features are obvious (trackpad) while some are a matter of preference like you said (OS).

I have an old 15" G4 Powerbook that I bought about a year and a half before Apple went to INTEL CPU's.

We still have it today, it looks and feels just like it did the day we bought it.

In the past, prior to that Powerbook all I ever owned were high end HP network certified notebooks. These HP notebooks were not sold in retail stores and cost upwards of $3,500. They did have a three year warranty and at that time HP would dispatch a service to pick up your notebook to be taken in for service. The service was great, in my case they picked it up Monday morning and had it back to me 4 days later. We were hooked on the OMNIBOOK. It was a well built notebook, unlike the crap they are putting out there today. Even the " Toughbook " be Panasonic isn't as 'tough' as it used to be.

My Powerbook, well it pretty much looks like it did when we bought it and my daughter is using it for school work.

That Powerbook was my first Mac computer. I went out to buy a new computer and having been spoiled by the HP OMNIBOOK I could not find a suitable notebook put out by any manufacturer in the retail market. I went to so many vendors looking for a suitable replacement and found none. Everything they put in my hands felt like crap. You could bend, twist and flex them with easy. I did not like that at all.

I was in a COMPUSA store and the clerk brings out the Powerbook, puts it in my hands and I was impressed with the build quality. Fit and finish was immaculate, lid opened and closed flawlessly and the gap between the upper and lower case was precise all the way around. I know this didn't matter to function, but if Apple took the effort to make them like this I figured all else would fall into place.

A year later it was time to buy a new notebook, as it was my habit to do so but the Powerbook was still churning away flawlessly so I took the money I budgeted for a notebook that year and bought a G5 Powermac.

Six months later Apple went to INTEL.

My experience with Apple has been nothing short of top notch. The one time in all these years I needed service Apple went above and beyond. Not only did they repair what I complained about but the tech 'thought' he noticed a problem and went further in repair. I took it in for a new HDD and came out with a new HDD, LCD Display Panel, and one other circuit board in that iMac.

I still go out and look at what if offered for sale by other manufacturers because I do know that they are less costly and in many cases OSX can be hacked onto them ..... but damn, they just don't seem to have the build quality.

As for service and reliability? Well I will rely on my own experience for that area and not what some publication might say.


Is Apple perfect? No, they do make some things I do not like and have steered people away from in the past.




.
 
I have an old 15" G4 Powerbook that I bought about a year and a half before Apple went to INTEL CPU's.

We still have it today, it looks and feels just like it did the day we bought it.

In the past, prior to that Powerbook all I ever owned were high end HP network certified notebooks. These HP notebooks were not sold in retail stores and cost upwards of $3,500. They did have a three year warranty and at that time HP would dispatch a service to pick up your notebook to be taken in for service. The service was great, in my case they picked it up Monday morning and had it back to me 4 days later. We were hooked on the OMNIBOOK. It was a well built notebook, unlike the crap they are putting out there today. Even the " Toughbook " be Panasonic isn't as 'tough' as it used to be.

My Powerbook, well it pretty much looks like it did when we bought it and my daughter is using it for school work.

That Powerbook was my first Mac computer. I went out to buy a new computer and having been spoiled by the HP OMNIBOOK I could not find a suitable notebook put out by any manufacturer in the retail market. I went to so many vendors looking for a suitable replacement and found none. Everything they put in my hands felt like crap. You could bend, twist and flex them with easy. I did not like that at all.

I was in a COMPUSA store and the clerk brings out the Powerbook, puts it in my hands and I was impressed with the build quality. Fit and finish was immaculate, lid opened and closed flawlessly and the gap between the upper and lower case was precise all the way around. I know this didn't matter to function, but if Apple took the effort to make them like this I figured all else would fall into place.

A year later it was time to buy a new notebook, as it was my habit to do so but the Powerbook was still churning away flawlessly so I took the money I budgeted for a notebook that year and bought a G5 Powermac.

Six months later Apple went to INTEL.

My experience with Apple has been nothing short of top notch. The one time in all these years I needed service Apple went above and beyond. Not only did they repair what I complained about but the tech 'thought' he noticed a problem and went further in repair. I took it in for a new HDD and came out with a new HDD, LCD Display Panel, and one other circuit board in that iMac.

I still go out and look at what if offered for sale by other manufacturers because I do know that they are less costly and in many cases OSX can be hacked onto them ..... but damn, they just don't seem to have the build quality.

As for service and reliability? Well I will rely on my own experience for that area and not what some publication might say.


Is Apple perfect? No, they do make some things I do not like and have steered people away from in the past.




.

Excellent post! I had a choice of going high end Thinkpad or a macbook pro in 2007. The Thinkpad was 100.00 cheaper than the macbook pro spec for spec. Once I touched the macbook I made the switch and haven't looked back since.
 
My comment was specifically aimed at the comparison with the XPS 15, which is way cheaper than a MBP 15. Just wanted to pointed out that there was a very good reason for that. :D

I'm not denying that there are higher quality PCs. I have owned several of them before. The Envy is indeed a good example for that and sure enough the price difference is much smaller...

By build quality, I mean how sturdy it feels, how well the hinge works etc
Other features are obvious (trackpad) while some are a matter of preference like you said (OS).

Im definately not knocking Apple, they make some of the most beautiful, well put together machines on the market, and combined with those good looks is the reassurance of being the 4th most reliable company in the world., sorry about earlier, I didnt know it was just against that plastic monster :D

One of the only reasons I would not rush out and buy a Macbook Pro right now, is me simply not getting on with OS X, it just doesnt feel right to me, nothing wrong with it. I wouldnt want a wasted OS X partition, because I would need the large Hard Drive, and while I understand there are ways to only install Windows, it seems a lot of effort to go to.

But it will always have my respect as a beautiful machine, in the same way I admire an Aston Martin ;)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.