Why do many Mac User believe that Macs have better hardware then all PCs

[themac23]

Since this turned into a flame war, I'll play along

When I put my Blu-ray disc into my MBP, it doesn't play.
When I plug a microphone into my MBP, the audio levels are very low.
When I try to plug my USB 3.0 HDD into my MBP, it runs slowly.
When I try to plug my eSata drive into my MBP, I can't.
When I try to play new games on the new MBP, the GPU can't keep up.

Hardware wise, my MBP is great at what it does, but let's not forget everything that it doesn't do. For the same price on a PC, I can...

Watch movies without having to download them off iTunes/rip them off of disc.
Use a headset in Vent.
Transfer files quickly.
Play current games, at a decent frame rate.
Use a USB drive while gaming (currently impossible as both USB ports are in use for the headset and mouse, because the input is a line in, not a mic in)
Use windows for > 1/2 the advertised battery life. Seriously, Windows on a mac shouldn't even be supported it's so laughably bad.

In conclusion... Sure my mac is perfect if I use it for non-gaming, in an Apple ecosystem of devices, and don't expect fast file transfer or the ability to consume multi-media not purchased through iTunes...

And I assume that's what the majority of people on this board do, so they love their MBP. I like my MBP because 90% of the time I don't need to do any of that, I use it for work, or surfing the web. But that 10% of the time, the omissions are quite glaring. And before anybody tells me to get a PC if I want to game, or watch Blu-ray, because SJ obviously isn't going to allow it anytime soon, this isn't about what a PC can do that a mac can't, this is simply about hardware: And in this instance, Macintosh based hardware is not better than Windows based hardware. The build quality is perhaps better, but the hardware that Apple uses is severely lacking in a multitude of areas.

TL;DR: Apple hardware, despite having a superb build quality, lacks in many areas. This becomes apparent if you try to do things that Apple didn't design your mac to do, eg. gaming, watching blu-ray, or running Windows.

It seems that alot of you hard to deal with arguementative people like to downplay Apple and state all the things they should have that they don't have; although a pc does have. However, you still buy Macs!! Actions speak louder than words. Shut your mouths or go buy a pc.

 

[ReidStylez]

Since this turned into a flame war, I'll play along

When I put my Blu-ray disc into my MBP, it doesn't play.

I see this an issue if you have blu-ray's. I however rip all mine and load them on a file server at my house. If I want to watch a movie on the go I can either stream it or copy it to my macbook pro and it plays it just fine.

When I plug a microphone into my MBP, the audio levels are very low.

The MBP comes with a good built in mic.

When I try to plug my USB 3.0 HDD into my MBP, it runs slowly.

Thunderbolt!

When I try to plug my eSata drive into my MBP, I can't.

How many laptops have an eSata port? I'm willing to bet it's not common.

When I try to play new games on the new MBP, the GPU can't keep up.

Well, I'm not dumb enough to buy a laptop for gaming for one... Two, I'm getting to the age that gaming on the computer isn't as fun. (I'm 28)

Watch movies without having to download them off iTunes/rip them off of disc.

This is the digital world, I can't believe people still use discs.

Use a headset in Vent.

Use your headset and the MBP has a built in mic. Works for me just fine.

Transfer files quickly.

Seriously? LOL I guess if you're transferring TB files on a daily basis I'd understand.

Play current games, at a decent frame rate.

Games on a laptop period is laughable.

Use a USB drive while gaming (currently impossible as both USB ports are in use for the headset and mouse, because the input is a line in, not a mic in)

You're starting to get a bunch of devices connected to a portable machine making it less portable.

Use windows for > 1/2 the advertised battery life. Seriously, Windows on a mac shouldn't even be supported it's so laughably bad.

Yeah, windows is laughably bad. You hit that right.

In conclusion... Sure my mac is perfect if I use it for non-gaming, in an Apple ecosystem of devices, and don't expect fast file transfer or the ability to consume multi-media not purchased through iTunes...

What? I am able to transfer files pretty damn fast over the network. I play media all the time without itunes. It hasn't stopped me.

And I assume that's what the majority of people on this board do, so they love their MBP. I like my MBP because 90% of the time I don't need to do any of that, I use it for work, or surfing the web. But that 10% of the time, the omissions are quite glaring. And before anybody tells me to get a PC if I want to game, or watch Blu-ray, because SJ obviously isn't going to allow it anytime soon, this isn't about what a PC can do that a mac can't, this is simply about hardware: And in this instance, Macintosh based hardware is not better than Windows based hardware. The build quality is perhaps better, but the hardware that Apple uses is severely lacking in a multitude of areas.

All the desktops I have are all PC's running Windows 7. I come from using Windows computers. I bought a macbook pro for a laptop because I like the quality of it. There are similar quality PC laptops out there believe me I did my research before making my final purchase decision. I think the issue of the PC vs Apple is most people compare the entry level laptops to the macbooks and say they are way over priced. I can see the 15" and plus being over priced but I paid $1,099 for this 13" MBP with the i5 Sandy Bridge processor and it was priced just as low as the other comparable models.

When you talk about does it have better hardware, you're actually talking about what it doesn't have. That doesn't really say anything about the quality of the hardware they used just that they didn't use that feature.

 

[AppleScruff1]

One thing is the design and another is the manufacturing, many of the repairs that you see in the Apple Store are due to quality issues and just a few are design related.

How many Microsoft Stores are out there?
Dell? HP? Asus? IBM?

My only point was that Windows based pc's outnumber Macs by a huge margin, so that even if they were equally reliable there would be a lot more Windows pc's being repaired than Macs. The number of retail stores has nothing to do with my comment.

Go to Best Buy and ask them, on a percentage basis of units sold which system demands more bench time from them? Apple or Windows? "

Oh and while you are at it, ask them..... " on a percentage basis of units sold , which system is RTV'd the most? Apple or Windows? "

OOPs ..... RTV = Returned To Vendor

I would imagine that the most people would take their Mac to an Apple store for service, not Best Buy. Regardless, the more units sold, the more likely there will be repairs. And I think if you really dig deep, Apple isn't the number one brand for least repairs.

 

[harcosparky]

And I think if you really dig deep, Apple isn't the number one brand for least repairs.

I can only speak to my own experience with the whole Apple vs Windows reliability issue.

We ( my household ) have, over the years owned 10 Apple Mac Computers .....
iBook
Power Mac Single CPU
Power Mac Dual CPU
Powerbook
iMac ( G5 )
Macbook Pro
Macbook Pro
Macbook Pro
Macbook
iMac 20" (intel)
iMac 24" (intel)

Of all of the above they were kept and used for a minimum of three years, some longer. They were operated in less than desirable environments.

Of all of the above only one required repair by Apple, that would be the 24" Intel iMac.

Oh and the G5 iMac, did I mention it fell from the desktop onto a hardwood floor, landing LCD screen face down? Case separated partially so we fully dismantled it, put it back together .... fired it up and used it for another 2 years before upgrading it.

In contrast we probably owned 8 Windows systems from manufacturers Sony, HP, Dell, Gateway. Of those 8 systems two of them required trips back to HP, and the Sony recently had it's third onsite visit from Tech Support for hardware failure.

The only good non-Mac hardware I have ever owned came from HP years ago. It was a line of computers not available to the 'general public'. Those would be the HP Omnibook series. I owned four of them over a five year period and one of them went back to HP twice in six months for repair.

I almost forgot, we did have to send the iBook in to Apple for repair .... but hey I cannot blame Apple for the user spilling a cup of coffee on top of the unit!

 

[cirus]

There will be a lot more pc's at any repair center compared to macs. This is because the vast majority of pc's sold at best buy are cheap units often by people who are not very computer literate. $400 computers will break down much more often than $1000 computers. However many of these $400 dollar computers will not be brought back to the store anyway. Irrepairable damage is irrepairable damage and people are more likely to toss a cheap computer than an expensive computer.

On another note, many laptops have a e-sata port (new ones).

Discs are used a lot, go into any computer store and you will see literally hundreds of them. Your operating system was sold on a disc.

Thunderbolt may be really good with all its benefits however, it really is only one port and daisy-chaining devices would make it even less portable than if you had two comparable USB 3.0 ports (will have the same max speed as one thunderbolt). Not to mention the fact that, at least now, you need an adapter. Port A might be really great but if you need an adapter then...not to mention that the adapter will transfer at the speed of the slowest interface anyway. Two USB ports may be acceptable for a portable device but completely unacceptable for a serious workstation, just try printing something (1 USB port) from a USB stick (another) while using a mouse (oops, you can't). I'm not saying that thunderbolt is bad, but for the present it is quite useless at least until it becomes supported and more common.

Games can run quite well on a laptop if your not a serious gamer and don't mind playing at ONLY high or ultra settings (on some laptops) at 60+ fps. A good laptop's gaming performance will be better than your average desktop's.

Also the point that 'not many pcs' have a particular feature is not valid if NO macs have that feature (ex. e-sata).

Macs have a great build quality yet are not perfect, no computer truely is. They are expensive and overpriced (I say this because their profit margins are much higher than their competitors. Yet if a mac is your thing then go ahead and buy it: it won't be overpriced to you). Yet you can't deny that they have a good coolness factor and do seem to be very dependable systems.

P.S. Another myth I'd like to address. Macs are not any more secure than PCs. Ex. (http://www.macworld.com/article/57616/2007/04/daizovi.html). Take a bunch of BMWs and (cheap) toyotas with the exact same locks and security features and place them in random areas of town. Though they have the exact same security, the BMW will be stolen or broken into much more than the toyota. OSX and Windows 7 are both similar in their security but there are a lot more people using windows 7. Therefore hackers will write viruses for the 90% that use windows rather than the 10% that use OSX as they can simply hack more computers. In fact OSX is intrinsically less secure than Windows 7 because it lacks features such as ASLR, or address space layout randomization, which randomly arranges the position of key data making it harder for hackers to target for exploits. DET(data execution prevention) was only added in Snow Leopard. DEP makes it harder to execute buffer overflow attacks. Windows has had this since XP SP2. Just look up Charlie Miller to see a good example.

 

[McGiord]

My only point was that Windows based pc's outnumber Macs by a huge margin, so that even if they were equally reliable there would be a lot more Windows pc's being repaired than Macs. The number of retail stores has nothing to do with my comment.



I would imagine that the most people would take their Mac to an Apple store for service, not Best Buy. Regardless, the more units sold, the more likely there will be repairs. And I think if you really dig deep, Apple isn't the number one brand for least repairs.

My question regarding the quantity of stores is that you will get the general impression that there are so many people servicing products at their retail stores but due to the fact that there are not so many stores for all the other types of PC, or at least there are not so easily seen, you will have the general impression that there are more Macs failing.

In reality the current status of manufacturing quality of the plastic products has been going down the drain, due to the fact that they are releasing too many new product in a short period of time, and they invest little in people overseeing the different suppliers that make the products. The volumes are big enough for them to make it easier for them to simply replace them or repair them on the fly. service policy is what makes the difference.

 

[Eddyisgreat]

OSX and Windows 7 are both similar in their security but there are a lot more people using windows 7. Therefore hackers will write viruses for the 90% that use windows rather than the 10% that use OSX as they can simply hack more computers. In fact OSX is intrinsically less secure than Windows 7 because it lacks features such as ASLR, or address space layout randomization, which randomly arranges the position of key data making it harder for hackers to target for exploits. DET(data execution prevention) was only added in Snow Leopard. DEP makes it harder to execute buffer overflow attacks. Windows has had this since XP SP2. Just look up Charlie Miller to see a good example.

Ahhh that makes perfect sense. Rather than the 93.96+ million Apple computers out there (according to W3Counter) which are, apparently, some of the most unsecure boxes on the face of the earth, Hackers would rather go for the larger target with, supposedly, better security and a plethora of corporations designing products to make their jobs as difficult as possible?

I know hackers have egos to stroke but I don't think there is any black hat on the planet that wouldn't like to command an army of 90 million computers hooked up to fast pipes of the rich and famous with very little security. \

 

[jvmxtra]

In terms of hardware.. it's just better.. no questions asked. BIG satisfaction.

 

[QuarterSwede]

OSX and Windows 7 are both similar in their security but there are a lot more people using windows 7. Therefore hackers will write viruses for the 90% that use windows rather than the 10% that use OSX as they can simply hack more computers.

[OFF TOPIC] I still don't buy that argument. Linux, which is more niche and has a lot more flavors, has more viruses than OS X and anyone would love to be the first to write a true wide spread virus in the wild for OS X and make a huge name for themselves.

I'll agree that OS X is less secure than Windows but that's really only because it's never had to be. Also, Apple added ASLR to iOS in 4.3 so I'm guessing that's coming to OS X in Lion. Better late than never.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

I see this an issue if you have blu-ray's. I however rip all mine and load them on a file server at my house. If I want to watch a movie on the go I can either stream it or copy it to my macbook pro and it plays it just fine.




The MBP comes with a good built in mic.

That picks up sounds from everywhere. Nowhere near as good as a good headset mic.

Thunderbolt!

How many thunderbold hard drives are there? How many USB 3.0 hard drives are there. See the problem?

How many laptops have an eSata port? I'm willing to bet it's not common.

Uh... most of them that aren't $400 consumer Best Buy ones?

Well, I'm not dumb enough to buy a laptop for gaming for one... Two, I'm getting to the age that gaming on the computer isn't as fun. (I'm 28)

Or maybe you're dumb enough to think that because you can't game on a MBP, that you can't game on any laptop. Dell has a nice Vostro 3450, with a ATI 6000 series card. (6680 maybe?) for $800. Gaming on a PC is doable.


This is the digital world, I can't believe people still use discs.

They do.

Use your headset and the MBP has a built in mic. Works for me just fine.

For iChat maybe, not for what I need it to do. Any besides, if I have a good headset mic, why shouldn't I be able to use it?

Seriously? LOL I guess if you're transferring TB files on a daily basis I'd understand.

Well actually... I deal with 1080i video footage on a daily basis. It's not uncommon for me to be moving around 32gigs of footage from a single shoot. But thanks for the understanding!


Games on a laptop period is laughable.

Gaming on a MBP is laughable... Gaming on a Windows laptop isn't.

You're starting to get a bunch of devices connected to a portable machine making it less portable.

Yes, that's what a desktop replacement laptop is for. I don't always work from the couch.

Yeah, windows is laughably bad. You hit that right.

Especially on the mac!

What? I am able to transfer files pretty damn fast over the network. I play media all the time without itunes. It hasn't stopped me.

4mb files. That's a far cry from gigabyte files, or keeping games on an external.

All the desktops I have are all PC's running Windows 7. I come from using Windows computers. I bought a macbook pro for a laptop because I like the quality of it. There are similar quality PC laptops out there believe me I did my research before making my final purchase decision. I think the issue of the PC vs Apple is most people compare the entry level laptops to the macbooks and say they are way over priced. I can see the 15" and plus being over priced but I paid $1,099 for this 13" MBP with the i5 Sandy Bridge processor and it was priced just as low as the other comparable models.

When you talk about does it have better hardware, you're actually talking about what it doesn't have. That doesn't really say anything about the quality of the hardware they used just that they didn't use that feature.

When you talk about hardware, you can't discuss Apple hardware in a bubble. Duh in a bubble, it's great. But when you compare it to other hardware, it's just as good, or worse. Never better, with the exception of the touchpad, under OS X. I love a large trackpad. Everything else is outdated hardware, and it's missing so much. Trying to do anything Apple doesn't want you to do, makes things get sloppy. I can do just about anything in the world on a Dell Vostro laptop. But doing the same things on a MBP just isn't possible. And since this is a software independent discussion, it's gotta be the hardware.

I'm glad that the hardware works for you. It works for 90% of the people who use OS X... but people who need every ounce of power and ports that are available know that PC hardware is better than mac hardware.

Try hooking up your MBP to a TV via HDMI to play a video on an eSata drive, and you'll see what I mean

 

[Dr McKay]

The MBP comes with a good built in mic.

Built in Mic's are terrible for picking up background noise, especially if you want to video chat and listen to music or something.
(But I dont buy the "Macbook Pro's have quiet Mic volume", was probably a crap headset)

How many laptops have an eSata port? I'm willing to bet it's not common.

A lot of High-End PC Laptops come with an eSata port.

This is the digital world, I can't believe people still use discs.

Optical Media will be around for a long time, Digital World? The media on the Disc IS Digital Its in the small minority who only stream and hold virtual copies of their media library, also the quality of online movies tends to be worse than Blu-Ray, Apple only offer in 720p, and while Microsoft does offer full 1080p movies for streaming and/or download. It's most likely compressed, so not the full quality. DVD will still be king for a long time, Blu-Ray is gaining more and more ground and marketshare.

Games on a laptop period is laughable.

My laptop has a 1920x1080 17 Inch Screen, and can Run Crysis on max settings at 70FPS, which I play with my Wireless Gaming Mouse, gaming on Laptops is far from laughable.

Yeah, windows is laughably bad. You hit that right.

Thats just a Fanboy statement, Im not even going to bother explaining why you're wrong.

When you talk about does it have better hardware, you're actually talking about what it doesn't have. That doesn't really say anything about the quality of the hardware they used just that they didn't use that feature.

Maybe he's on about PC Laptops coming equipped with better video cards, or maybe a faster processor than Macbooks can come with. Although to get a faster laptop than the best Macbook Pro, you tend to have to fork out as much money as the Macbook Pro costs. As for hardware quality, My particular laptop comes from a company which has a better reliability record than Apple, maybe he's referring to the fact there are companies which hold a better record than Apple for reliability, or maybe he's just talking Specs. I couldn't tell.

 

[harcosparky]

A lot of High-End PC Laptops come with an eSata port.

eSata is not very popular. Sure a lot of " High End " PC Laptops have it, but when you look at the market saturation of PC notebooks, very few " High End " PC Laptops are in the hands of users as compared to " Low End " notebooks.

This means that eSata just isn't all that popular with the consumer.

eSata may well end up being the " BetaMax " of the external drive market.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

eSata is not very popular. Sure a lot of " High End " PC Laptops have it, but when you look at the market saturation of PC notebooks, very few " High End " PC Laptops are in the hands of users as compared to " Low End " notebooks.

This means that eSata just isn't all that popular with the consumer.

eSata may well end up being the " BetaMax " of the external drive market.

EEk! Even the Dell 14r has an esata port!
As does the vostro 3450
Maybe that's unfair...
But here's a Toshiba from BestBuy.
Of all the laptops I looked at, the only one that did NOT have an esata port was the $299 Compaq laptop. That's under $300. You were saying...?

 

[falconeight]

Actually this isn't surprising since Windows based pc's outsell Macs by 10-1. Now go to an Apple store and compare the number of Macs being repaired to the number of Windows machines.

Exactly because they are cheap pieces of crap!! If more people could afford macs they would outsell everything.

 

[themac23]

EEk! Even the Dell 14r has an esata port!
As does the vostro 3450
Maybe that's unfair...
But here's a Toshiba from BestBuy.
Of all the laptops I looked at, the only one that did NOT have an esata port was the $299 Compaq laptop. That's under $300. You were saying...?

Why are you arguing a point that clearly doesn't matter to you at all? You purchased a Macbook Pro without those options. I don't understand you people. You buy Macbooks and then complain that lower priced pc's have more options. THEN BUY A LOWER PRICED PC AND GO AWAY.

 

[AppleScruff1]

In terms of hardware.. it's just better.. no questions asked. BIG satisfaction.

In what ways do you feel it is better than a comparable Windows based laptop?

My laptop has a 1920x1080 17 Inch Screen, and can Run Crysis on max settings at 70FPS, which I play with my Wireless Gaming Mouse, gaming on Laptops is far from laughable.

What laptop do you have that can run Crysis on all max settings at 70FPS?

Exactly because they are cheap pieces of crap!! If more people could afford macs they would outsell everything.

What about the business world?

 

[Dr McKay]

What laptop do you have that can run Crysis on all max settings at 70FPS?

Sony Vaio E series, the 1 option I dont run at max is Anti-Aliasing.

 

[johnnyturbouk]

Let me reiterate what on reviewer had to say about the Macbook Pro

"What Apple has done requires, metal, glass, genius, and OSX, you cannot replicate it with plastic and Windows! "

I have yet to see a consumer retailed Windows Notebook that comes close to the level " fit and finish " and quality of construction that Apple has achieved in it's Macbook Pro line.

.

hit the nail on the head there

macs remind me of being the Ferrari of laptops.. they ooze claas, elegence, power and sophistications... yes there is better things out there in terms of raw stats... but the osx is what leered me to the world of mac

 

[AppleScruff1]

Sony Vaio E series, the 1 option I dont run at max is Anti-Aliasing.

I'm really surprised that you could get 70 FPS with that GPU in a laptop. I've never seen any review get anywhere close to that except on lower settings and low resolution.

 

[iMackPro]

i like my macbook pro.

 

[Tech198]

Mac

me too..

I got an I7 macbook pro the other week... Now all my pc mates want one .

gotta like that feeling.

Has anyone here touched on the graphics .... ? Maybe now could be a good time. Or maybe Mac uses believe that not mentioning this at all, people won't ask, and therefore everything will work out (hopefully)

But, let the truth be told, pc's are better for graphics... Better hear it from me than not at all, i always say ..

But ya, honestly, "the glass, the trackpad, the macs are soo thin....." remarks you've all heard more than once from your pc mates...

I know I have. But then again... actions speak louder than words. *grin*

To also smooth the topic title, I wouldn't exactly say ALL pc's either but most.


(ok... 97%) *edit

 

[s.hasan546]

Take a bunch of BMWs and (cheap) toyotas with the exact same locks and security features and place them in random areas of town. Though they have the exact same security, the BMW will be stolen or broken into much more than the toyota. OSX and Windows 7 are both similar in their security but there are a lot more people using windows 7.

thats actually totally wrong. according to NCIC, the honda accord, honda civic, and toyota camry are the most stolen cars.

 

[verta]

Let me reiterate what on reviewer had to say about the Macbook Pro

"What Apple has done requires, metal, glass, genius, and OSX, you cannot replicate it with plastic and Windows! "

I have yet to see a consumer retailed Windows Notebook that comes close to the level " fit and finish " and quality of construction that Apple has achieved in it's Macbook Pro line.

Thinkpads, Toughbooks, business Vaios, Elitebooks, Tecras. I'm sorry but looking beyond gloss and shine could be a good idea every now and then. I don't think unibody getting super hot under load due cooling made inadequate for the sake of looks, Macbook being essentially unserviceable by user or using breakable glass in laptops are good ideas.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

Why are you arguing a point that clearly doesn't matter to you at all? You purchased a Macbook Pro without those options. I don't understand you people. You buy Macbooks and then complain that lower priced pc's have more options. THEN BUY A LOWER PRICED PC AND GO AWAY.

Mac's are more then the hardware... they're the software. And right now, the only way to run Final Cut Pro, is on a mac.

Also, I'm complaining because the OP asked a question. I feel that macs have, for the most part, vastly inferior hardware. Amazing industrial design, but horrible hardware, and I'm making my point.

 

[Faux Carnival]

Mac's are more then the hardware... they're the software. And right now, the only way to run Final Cut Pro, is on a mac.

Also, I'm complaining because the OP asked a question. I feel that macs have, for the most part, vastly inferior hardware. Amazing industrial design, but horrible hardware, and I'm making my point.

Umm, let's see. Why is that so? Oh, maybe because Final Cut was recently bought by Apple and Uncle Steve doesn't let a Windows version to be developed. That is very noble, especially when Microsoft was the number one software supplier for Apple since 80's.