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I don't see a lot of ragging on the 13" mbp, but it could use a faster processor. For me, it was a great entry level laptop and the extra weight over the mba was far outweighed by being able to easily add ram and having extra storage and the optical drive right out of the box.

I think my mbp was an awesome addition to my iMac.
 
I always thought it was more of the people who use the product rather than the product itself. Many of the people that use it (including most of the people I go to school with) could save money and go with a MBA.

Of course, as with all generalizations, there are many people who do not fit this bill. But, the MBP has a perception of a machine for those people who simply watch shows on Hulu and use Facebook.

I have a 13" MBP that I have constantly upgraded and tinkered with so that it can fit my needs, but my (limited) exposure to the product tells me that the average person who purchases it could "downgrade" to a MBA and not see a significant difference.

Do I wish it had a discrete GPU? Yes. Do I hope you're not basing your decision to/not to purchase a 13" MBP because of others' perceptions of the laptop? Yes.
 
Ragging is not the correct term but I understand what you are getting at. I had a 13 inch and I loved it. I have a 15 inch and I love it. Before, the 13 inch's greater portability and lower price worked better for me. Today, the 15 inch's larger screen and quad core CPU work better for me as the tasks I do today are different than those I did yesterday.

The 13 and the 15 are very different beasts. With that said, the 15 and 17 are very different beasts as well, despite their hardware similarities. Those working certain datasets, rendering, designing, editing, etc. with programs that are optimized for quad core CPUs can see a substantial performance over a dual core CPU. Also, the 15 inch's screen works better for the work I do now.

Now is there anything wrong with the 13? Absolutely not. The 13 inch outperforms the previous flagship 15/17. The dual core SB is plenty fast. Even the older C2D MBPs still will perform just fine for most users. My brother has the most recent refresh and it is not a slow computer by any means. It is even more awesome than my older C2D model was. However, he moves around more than I and so the smaller form factor fits him better. He also does less resource-intensive programs than I and so the CPU difference between the 13 and 15 are really unimportant, but with the programs he DOES use, the difference between the 13 MBP and MBA is important. I can't speak to gaming as neither him nor I play games on our machines but I imagine both do well for what they are despite neither being made as a 'gaming' laptop. For my mother, all of the MBPs are unnecessarily large as she only uses very 'light' programs, never uses the ODD, and favors ultra portability as she is on the go...and so for her, the MBA fit the bill perfectly. My father hates laptops all together and so none of them work for him.

Ultimately, there is no such thing as a better sized MBP. There is only better relative to an individual user's needs.

totally agree. I replaced my windows pc with a late 2011 model, and honestly couldn't be happier, i don't need the dedicated gpu. If I want to play games ill fire up my ps3. this laptop is perfect for me. To each his own. Also i don't think the 13 should be considered "entry level" its still a monster in its own right.
 
Plus, the Air feels like a toy.

So if I create a computer that has two quad-core i7s, 16 GB DDR3 RAM, an internal RAID for HDDs plus an SSD boot disk, a super hi-res 17" LED LCD IPS panel, and a myriad of other awesome features, and then encased it all in super-cheap, garishly colorful, toy-like plastic, that would negate the fact that it's an awesome computer?

Just because it feels like a toy to you means nothing to the usefulness of the computer.

The MBP is more expandable than the Air, but so is just about every laptop. So, by that definition, just about every laptop is a professional machine.
 
i currently have an old G5 tower and once the new release of MBP's come out I will be purchasing the 13" if it is still available. looks like it does plenty for me!
 
Currently I have a 13" MBP w/SSD, and also a 13" MBA which my wife uses. I've also bought two 17" MBP's this past year and returned them in both instances. I've also test driven the 15" MBP for a day or so.

Right now if I could choose only one laptop it would be a quad-core 13" MBP with better GPU (not Nvidia, and HD 4000 might be good enough for my use), and screen at 1440x900 resolution. Since this beast doesn't exist I'm upgrading again this year. I'm not sure what I'll get and will be waiting for both Pro and Air lines to arrive, touting Ivy Bridge. But I've come to the conclusion with current models that the 13" Pro just offers too much flexibility for customization. And it offers it at a bargain price.

I already have the SSD and can easily drop the HDD in the optibay, and additional memory is relatively cheap. If I didn't already have a buyer for this laptop I wouldn't hesitate to keep it for the next 2-4 years.

I'm not sure what I'm buying this year, but if the 13" MBP is still around I will be giving it serious consideration.
 
I have the MBP13 but really what does it have that the MBA doesn't. It's a pathetic excuse for a macbook with a design that dates back to 2009 and has only had incremental upgrades. If I compare my MBP13 2011 with my buddies MB13 2009. They both look the same and i can only say that I have the better cpu. Thats like 3 years later. You can argue about TB but I think its useless.


On the other hand I do fall into that niche category that swapped out his dvd drive for a second harddrive. You can not do that with the MBA. But otherwise I would never buy a MBP13. And certainly not if Apple comes with the MBA15. I'll bet you'll get more screen real estate in similar package. Certainly when it comes to wait.


The current MBP13 is pathetic. Only buy it when you need to swap out the dvd drive for a 2nd hdd.
 
I have a mid-2010 13" 2.4GHz MBP bought with at a discounted price. Upgraded it to 8GB of Kingston RAM and swapped out the 5400 RPM HDD for an Intel 320 SATA II SSD and "viola!" A very nice machine to bounce around with. Btw, both RAM & SSD bought on sale. What could they possibly complain about?
 
It doesn't have a discrete GPU. Also, it's current specs seem close to the MBA's.

I'll leave out more details, but the main idea is that the MBP 13's specs right now simply isn't "good" enough for it to really be a "Pro" machine.
 
It doesn't have a discrete GPU. Also, it's current specs seem close to the MBA's.

I'll leave out more details, but the main idea is that the MBP 13's specs right now simply isn't "good" enough for it to really be a "Pro" machine.

So when you walk into a corporate environment and they assign you a cubicle, you do know there will be a CAT5 lan connection awaiting you, right? No unsecure WiFi allowed. Oh yeah, how about when they ask you to perform one of the most very basic business functions, a file conversion... & the client provides the data via CD? I worked 16 years for a Fortune 500 co. in corporate IT (Sr. Programmer Analyst) and have to say that none of the new "Ultrabook" style laptops appear to be up to the task.

My MBP has been bequeathed to our daughter and my wife enjoys her mid-2010 white MB. (Same upgrades.) They love it for what it is, a top-tier recreational machine w/light duty student/business capability. If you're trying to either sell it as a "Pro" machine or "rag" on it, based on its inclusion or lack of a discrete GPU, (or other minor details) then I believe you've lost sight of their intended niche. The 13" MBP & MBA are both fine machines but I wouldn't put either up against, let's say, a loaded ThinkPad W520 in a corporate environment and expect any measure of parity. Against each other though, the MBP at least gets you up and running when it's time to make the donuts.

Bert
 
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Here's my take on why some people choose to knock the MBP 13". It dwells in a strange, overlapping category between the MBA and the MBP.

Every other laptop in Apple's line has a very clear, fairly unambiguous purchasing algorithm behind it, that most people would find hard to contest. Need maximum portability? Buy a MBA 11. Need a large screen or discrete graphics? Buy a MBP 15/17 depending on what you want.

But when you get to the MBA 13 and the MBP 13, the decisions become much more...subjective. How important is weight to you vs. the somewhat greater expansion options in the MBP? Screen resolution? Small increments in performance and price?

That's much more hazy, which gives people more room to be critical, and argue that there's a "right" choice.
 
13" MBP = Girl next door

13" MBA = Model

----

After having dated both I like the girl next door. She comes with her own optical, ethernet, better battery life. She might weigh a little more, but I've grown to like that too. She still looks pretty sexy. And if I want to give her a facelift, there is always SSD. That is the best I can do to summarize why I prefer the 13" MBP to the Air.
 
It doesn't have a discrete GPU. Also, it's current specs seem close to the MBA's.

I'll leave out more details, but the main idea is that the MBP 13's specs right now simply isn't "good" enough for it to really be a "Pro" machine.

I have to disagree.
The MBA maxes at 1.8 GHz i7 and 4 GB of RAM and a 256 GB SSD (IIRC there are upgrades for this though).
The MBP maxes at 2.8 GHz i7 and 16 GB of RAM and a 600 GB SSD.

Those are some pretty substantial differences IMO.
 
Clearing things up

People said:
*People replying*
*Votes down*

Sorry, I should have said that my response was purely meant for answering the question, and that "this is how other people may be thinking". :eek:

I really don't believe it that much about the similarity between the MBA 13'' and the MBP 13''. (Consider the fact that my computer is an MBP 13''). ;)
 
Not everyone rags on it. I don't think it is a bad laptop but I can see why people would be disappointed with the performance gap between the 13" and the 15/17" MBPs.

I think the problem is that some of the users who bought the 15" would have taken the 13" if it was more powerful, but it isn't. The price/performance deficit between the 13" MBP and other 13" Windows notebooks seems to be greater than between the 15" MBP and other laptops in it's class. Obviously, there will be some people who just want the Mac experience and don't care about gaming, or video transcoding performance and the 13" will be great for them. I suppose it frustrates people that Apple has designed the 13" for people who don't have performance in mind and left those who do need performance in a smaller form factor out in the cold.
 
I think Apple is holding the 1280x800 because they are going to announce a 2560x1600 retina MBP. MBP prices will be raised, if necessary, to accommodate the retina display, creating more of a separation between the MBP and MBA.
 
I think that the 13" MBP is a great little machine.

Early 2011, upped to 8gm RAM. Nothing else done. Does everything l need to.

l can see myself hanging onto this one for at least the next 3 years, maybe longer. I don't lug it around that much and when l do, it's not that heavy. Sure, l'd like a MBA (weight wise), but not being able to upgrade the RAM put me off.

How do l see my set-up in a few years time?
Probably hook the MBP to a Thunderbolt Display and use it as a 'home computer' and buy a iPad/MBA to port around when l do this (probably iPad5/6 or a nice MBA by then)

(If l put in a SSD, how much weight do you think can be shaved off? Just going off post #138 above)
 
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A massive HD and a DVD drive. The MBA has pathetic storage.

Thats only for the niche. For people like me that are running an ssd+hdd. But I'll tell you whenever they bring out the MBA15 with about the same weight as the mbp13. I would buy that instantly even if it means losing 750gb of storage.

256gb is enough and otherwise you always have external hdds. Although its so convenient to have your who music and movie collection with you all the time.
 
Bought my late 2011 13" because it was a bargain and my first Mac, with SSD and 8GB RAM it has the potential to suit me for quite awhile.:apple:
 
Personally, I love my 13" Macbook Pro late 2011. It does what I need it to do and what i want to do as well. It's portable and it's a beauty. :)
 
If the 13" had the higher-resolution screen I would have kept it. It's the only reason I got the Air.
 
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