Why does everyone hate Lion?

[Mopar]

You're mixing 2 issues here, a "no sound" bug with a "some files don't play" issue.

Both caused by Lion upgrades. That's the point.

The "some files don't play" is probably just a case of missing codecs, especially if they play in VLC. Quicktime never was quite up to snuff here as Apple doesn't really see the benefit of the open source codecs mostly.

Or it could be caused by a conflict with a shared component in the OS core, which Quicktime shares. Who's to say? VLC has its own core.

The no sound thing after battery drains, etc.. are bugs and should be reported to Apple.

Also, your trackpad seems to be having hardware issues rather than Lion issues. I have no problems with gestures or other trackpad related events under Lion on my 2010 MBA.

Nor do I have anymore beachballs than I did with Snow Leopard (anyway, the only beachballs I ever get are when doing file transfers over the network with Finder, and I've had those since Leopard, so hardly a "OS" related issue, this is purely because Finder always sucked and still does).

Also, my C2D machine is not sluggish at all, nor have I had battery issues moving up to Lion.

The only "issue" I have had that you say is the "instant-on" issue, but frankly, it's barely slower than SL was (the MBA never was "instant-on" to begin with after going to deep sleep and for normal sleep, it's as instant-on as any Mac I've ever seen, quite the marketing gimmick Apple pulled there).

I had my suspicions about the 2011 Airs being better than the 2010 models, and having them side-by-side (albeit 11.6" vs 13.3") I'd say I still like the older model better running OS10.6. And I'm in no hurry to load it up with Lion after my initial experiences with it on the newer machine.

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That's not a bug. If anything, it's a feature.

Maybe for you. Not for me.

 

[iMikeT]

I don't hate it, I just see a lot of its shortcomings. And there are plenty of shortcomings.

 

[hexonxonx]

I've been running it on my 2009 MBP with no problems since day one.

I gave up using it on my black 2008 MB because the fans would never spin down while doing anything including browsing this forum. Things would start crawling after so many days of usage and I would have to either quit everything or reboot. Went back to SL.

On my 2010 MB, I am running Lion and enjoying it. Fans rarely get going no matter what I do and I have no lockups.

I use Quicktime and VLC the most. I also use Subler to convert some MKV files back to .m4v and import into iTunes. iTunes has been working pretty well also.

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

I don't hate it, I just see a lot of its shortcomings. And there are plenty of shortcomings.

I have no hatred of lion, it wasn't ready.

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I actually think Lion is great. It's smooth and fast and I haven't had any major problems with it. I really like the Recovery HD and Internet Recovery... two very easy and smart features for Apple to put in. You'll never need a disc again!

The server portion of Lion however is... not good. It's weak to say the least. Apple basically took away features and the more "complex" options of Snow Leopard and called it Lion. Some services that need to be configured with special options (that are very easy to set in Snow Leopard), such as Web, are hidden away in Lion. Instead, there is an "On/Off" switch. You can't touch anything in the GUI and this is unacceptable. So far, the Server OS is extremely buggy as well. I'll give Apple a few more months to squash bugs as I'd expect this with any server OS, but the main bug is with hosting multiple websites! Come on! Didn't anyone test this before Apple started selling it? It's unfortunate to see that Apple is pushing the pro-users out the door...

The upgrade install is the culprit for many issues.

 

[jameslmoser]

Why does everyone hate Lion.

Because we expected more from Apple. Because we see now that apple really doesn't care about its PC business anymore. Because Lion is buggy even after 2 updates. Because Lion's ridiculous new "features" were not thought out at all. Because people don't like things forced on them that makes things less simple, especially when the changes were made just for the sake of making changes.

 

[Darby67]

Can't stand it. This is the buggiest...

The trackpad swipes are so hit and miss, I simply can't use all but the most basic ones. Maybe I have funny fingers or something . . . but most multi-finger swipes just don't work with me.

No issues here

Lion is SLOW. SLOW. SLOW. I'm using an i5 and this thing is slower than any of my C2Ds.

Actually find it a bit zippier than SL

What else? The little bugs, like not being able to turn sound feedback fully off (you can turn it off in System Preferences, but every time you delete a song in iTunes, you still get feedback).

Don't have that issue. Not a fan of feedback, so i turned it off. Perhaps you need to stop by and visit an Apple store.

I hate the grey scroll bars, even though I've selected a "blue" appearance - like all my other Macs (we have six at home in total).

Not my ideal preference either but I got used to it. But certainly not a bug.

I hate that I've already had to force quit various programs even though I've only had the machine a few days and upgraded all my software as soon as I got it - I haven't had to force quite a single program in my 2010 13" Air using Snow Leopard.

Trying to think if I have had to Force quit a program since upgrading when it first came out, don't think so.

I hate the "beachball of death" - can't remember seeing so many beachballs since OSX/10.1 etc. It just hangs.

Not one beach ball in Lion, but can't remember the last one in SL either.

I hate that it doesn't instantly wake up like my 2010 Air with Snow Leopard.

All of my computers wake instantly.

I hate that both Quicktime and iTunes are buggy and can't play various audio and movie files that VLC handles with ease.

Are you saying that Apple removed codec support? All of the files that used to play before continue to play perfectly. Not all are supported, but that is not a bug.

I could go on, but I've only just started using Lion and I'm sure I haven't uncovered (or even remembered) all its bugs yet.

I'm not sure you've given any examples of bugs, some just might be not being familiar with a few of the options (feedback, etc.). As you don't mention how much RAM, as I have heard many have found increasing RAM helps out; might see a difference with the beach balls and perhaps the Force quit issue. Have you upgraded all 3rd party software?

 

[iMikeT]

I have no hatred of lion, it wasn't ready.

It depends on which version you're referring to. 10.7 definitely wasn't ready, it felt like a public beta. 10.7.1 fixed major bugs in the public beta. 10.7.2 is the release that 10.7 should have been. It's a lot more ready than 10.7 but still has too many shortcomings.

 

[Gomff]

Well, I've just found another bit of software that I need to boot into Snow Leopard to use....A plugin for some 3D software that almost certainly will not be updated and probably relies on a framework that Lion no longer supports.....And which I have to use for a job I'm currently working on. I'm seriously beginning to think that I'll just have to stick with something that works for me....I just don't think Lion is worth the hassle.

Just been checking out all the bad reviews Pixelmator 2.0 is getting in the App store, mainly because it uses versions and automatically saves, leading to plenty of people losing their work. And the worst part is that you can't turn it off.....If only Apple and software developers would at least make that concession, rather than treating proficient users like babies who need to be spoon fed and hand held.

 

[Joos24]

I'm just curious about all the Lion hate. It works well.

OP "Everybody" doesn't hate Lion, it's hardly just a few people on this forum who are probably the same people on the Apple forums and whatever else. I'd beg to differ that there are more than 20 people total. These same people just like repeating themselves so they can keep reading the FUD they are trying to spread. THEY KNOW they can go right to Apple's website and voice their concerns on Apple's feedback page, but they won't because they would rather come here and ride the "Misery Loves Company Train" pretending that they voice up here (a rumor sight that Apple couldn't care less of) so Apple will read it and fix the problems. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them are Microsoft employees wreaking havoc on Lion so Windows 8 won't be the only one receiving negative focus.

Because people don't like things forced on them that makes things less simple, especially when the changes were made just for the sake of making changes.

Because nobody is "forcing" anything on you, because you have the right to make a choice on what you use, because you don't need a computer to get through life, because not everyone share's your same opinion, because many people actually like the new changes.

Just been checking out all the bad reviews Pixelmator 2.0 is getting in the App store, mainly because it uses versions and automatically saves, leading to plenty of people losing their work. And the worst part is that you can't turn it off....

That makes absolutely no sense at all. How can people be losing their work if it's being saved in Versions? Why would you want to turn off something that saves your work. Do you understand how Versions works?

 

[Mopar]

Are you saying that Apple removed codec support? All of the files that used to play before continue to play perfectly. Not all are supported, but that is not a bug.

No, you have to read my prior post. You know what a component conflict is, right? It is not a missing codec that is the problem. The sound plays in some video and audio files and then turns off after only a second or two. If I didn't have the right codec, the sound wouldn't play at all, would it? Nor would it play uninterrupted in Preview on the Desktop.

Before anyone else mentions codecs, please read what I and others who have had the same issue have already written. I believe these are core OS conflicts, not missing codecs.

I'm not sure you've given any examples of bugs, some just might be not being familiar with a few of the options (feedback, etc.). As you don't mention how much RAM, as I have heard many have found increasing RAM helps out; might see a difference with the beach balls and perhaps the Force quit issue. Have you upgraded all 3rd party software?

I have hardly any third-party software installed so far. Only what I've needed to work around Apple's own shortcomings. And what I do have is up-to-date. As is the OS.

I also have 4Gb of RAM - as much as you're going to get on an AIR.

As for "bugs", would you classify windows getting stuck behind each other a bug or not? Because I just found another one. Opened the Finder window, then another, but the other window popped up in the background and no matter how I clicked, it would not move to the front.

As soon as I hit Mission Control and clicked on the same window, miraculously it moved to the front and I could click between the two windows.

That, my friend, is a bug. And this is a new machine. No Lion upgrade - it came pre-installed.

Not being able to fully turn off sound feedback is also bug, as it only happens in certain programs doing certain tasks.

Sticking windows, windows not remembering where they were, preferences being reset intermittently and randomly after turning off the machine - they're all bugs, too.

Are you trying to tell me they're not?

You know, I've got five Macs here (not iPhones, iPads, iPods or any of that other "iLifestyle" stuff some people seem to classify as Macintoshes - these are proper machines). I've been a Mac owner and user for almost 20 years (1992). I'm starting to wonder how much you guys who claim to have had no problems with Lion actually use or explore your machines.

I've found almost half a dozen glitches in only a few days' use. And I haven't even started to get stuck into this new OS yet.

As for visiting an Apple shop, I just used phone support for the first time ever - never had to do it in the past - and they really didn't have a clue. Mind you, I didn't expect them to - they can't fix what Apple hasn't provided a fix for.

 

[jameslmoser]

Because nobody is "forcing" anything on you, because you have the right to make a choice on what you use, because you don't need a computer to get through life, because not everyone share's your same opinion, because many people actually like the new changes.

They most certainly are too trying to force Lion on us.. we can't use Snow Leopard on new Macs, and if we want to continue using our MobileMe accounts, we will need to go to Lion come June.

 

[dba415]

I hate Lion because it's slower than Snow Leopard and they completely ruined Expose.

If there was an option to revert back to the Snow Leopard Expose and get rid of Mission Control, I would gladly stick with Lion.

 

[swingerofbirch]

I won't restate my reasons (they are in many threads), and it's not hate, it's disappointment for me.

To add something new, something I have thought about lately, is whether Apple writes sloppier code than it used to, but it's offset by increasingly powerful hardware.

I remember the days when a new OS from Apple would give your computer new life. Now it seems people say you need to upgrade to a Core iX processor to use Lion comfortably.

Take this for what it's worth: Windows 7 is capable of running on a 1 GHZ PC with 1 GB RAM, while Lion requires an Intel Core 2 Duo, Core i3, Core i5, Core i7, or Xeon and 2 GB RAM.

2 GB of RAM seems like an understatement--Safari uses up 2 GB of RAM on my MBP. And I was told by an AppleCare representative he had similar issues with Lion as I did on a 2010 13" MBP but not on a newer MBP with a Core iX processor.

Performance, heat, and fan noise are the main reasons Lion disappoints me (but there are others, you can search my previous posts if you're interested).

 

[Mopar]

OK, a couple more bugs I've found . . .

Spotlight seems to open some preference panes in the background instead of bringing them to the front - this is obviously related to the issue I had earlier where some windows would get stuck behind others and couldn't be brought to the front until Mission Control had been launched.

This is happening to me regularly now, so is not an isolated incident.

I suspect it is related to Mission Control itself.

The other bug I found in Spotlight is when scrolling through results, sometimes the highlighter gets stuck on a line and when you move the pointer up to another line and double click it, it opens the result that the highlighter is stuck on, not the one that is pointed to.

This appears to be related to intermittent lagging. I haven't found anything else hogging memory in the Activity Monitor, so I can only put this down to the OS.

The trackpad still seems to be a bit unresponsive. I've turned off all but the most basic swipe options, but I still need to tap the trackpad a couple of times sometimes just to get it to respond. Not good.

Stay tuned for more bugs . . .

LOL! Just as I wrote that ^ and hit the trackpad to post it, the machine froze, then the trackpad click finally registered after a few seconds (unfroze) and performed the task. Murphy's Law.

I haven't experienced so many lags on a new OS since the original OSX (10.0).

 

[Mopar]

Last two bugs of the day before I shut this thing down . . .

The Finder window not only refuses to remember its past settings, every time I close and reopen it, it lists every single file on my machine in alphabetical order instead of as a folder directory. This is very annoying.

But the latest bug is a doozy: With an open Finder window in front of me, I moved the pointer off the window and all of a sudden the directory that was open disappeared before my eyes and another directory popped up - one I hadn't even selected!

This machine is definitely going back to the store.

 

[chrono1081]

I would bet money that I am one of the heaviest computer users on this forum and I personally have no issues with Lion. I've been testing a slew of software on my Lion drive before I make the jump to upgrade.

I thought Spaces moving to Mission control would be a big issue for me since I use Spaces a lot but I can work around by simply opening the apps I want in the space I want so its a moot issue.

That being said Lion is faster than Snow Leopard, not by a ton but its noticeable.

 

[OllyW]

That being said Lion is faster than Snow Leopard, not by a ton but its noticeable.

It's notably slower on my 24" iMac, sometimes almost grinding to a halt.

 

[skunk]

It's notably slower on my 24" iMac, sometimes almost grinding to a halt.

On mine, too, until I zapped the PRAM. Made all the difference: now it flies along.

 

[OllyW]

On mine, too, until I zapped the PRAM. Made all the difference: now it flies along.

Thanks, I'll try that later.

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

Thanks, I'll try that later.

That work?

 

[jollygoodamy]

But then again, you can always go back to Windoze

 

[OllyW]

That work?

It feels a little better but I need to stress it out a lot more before I can be sure. I'll post back a bit later.

Edit: After using it for a day since resetting the PRAM the verdict is it's definitely better. Fingers crossed.

 

[Martyimac]

I don't hate Lion, but

Having used a mac and a pc side by side for years, I can say that my mac, as much as I hate to admit it, is no longer my favorite. And when I say years, that means since the first Bondi Blue ( wasn't that the color?) iMac came out.
So I have been with mac since OS9 and pc's since Windows 3.
During all that time, even though I had to stay with a PC for various reasons, I always had a Mac because I really enjoyed them, and because "they just worked". Peripherals just worked, the programs just worked, the whole experience was elegant.
And while windows has taken much deserved heat, windows plodded along, with all it's warts, but became my main go to systems because of programs that were compatible with other things in my life whereas the mac either didn't have a compatible program, or it costs me enough to not want to spend the money to buy them since I already had the program on the pc.
Vista was the OS that almost caused me to get rid of my PC. It was even worse than Windows ME, which was horrible. But I kept doing the upgrades and slowly vista became "okay", not great but okay.
Windows 7 is actually a good system. Having learned, through Vista, where MS was taking the OS, I actually found W7 a breath of fresh air and I have learned to love my PC again.
Then Lion, came along. Now keep in mind this is just MY opinion, Lion is Apples Vista. I see them trying to incorporate aspects of iOS into the system and it just isn't working for me. Quicken is gone, but may be back. And the rest of the issues we can all read about.
So, while I have a new mini, with Lion preinstalled, I cannot, in good conscience, recommend Lion to any of my friends who may be thinking of trying out Mac. Maybe in a year or two when 10.7.x is out or maybe even 10.8, but at this point my recommendation is, go with a Snow Leopard machine or don't go at all.
Flame suit on.

 

[chrono1081]

Having used a mac and a pc side by side for years, I can say that my mac, as much as I hate to admit it, is no longer my favorite. And when I say years, that means since the first Bondi Blue ( wasn't that the color?) iMac came out.
So I have been with mac since OS9 and pc's since Windows 3.
During all that time, even though I had to stay with a PC for various reasons, I always had a Mac because I really enjoyed them, and because "they just worked". Peripherals just worked, the programs just worked, the whole experience was elegant.
And while windows has taken much deserved heat, windows plodded along, with all it's warts, but became my main go to systems because of programs that were compatible with other things in my life whereas the mac either didn't have a compatible program, or it costs me enough to not want to spend the money to buy them since I already had the program on the pc.
Vista was the OS that almost caused me to get rid of my PC. It was even worse than Windows ME, which was horrible. But I kept doing the upgrades and slowly vista became "okay", not great but okay.
Windows 7 is actually a good system. Having learned, through Vista, where MS was taking the OS, I actually found W7 a breath of fresh air and I have learned to love my PC again.
Then Lion, came along. Now keep in mind this is just MY opinion, Lion is Apples Vista. I see them trying to incorporate aspects of iOS into the system and it just isn't working for me. Quicken is gone, but may be back. And the rest of the issues we can all read about.
So, while I have a new mini, with Lion preinstalled, I cannot, in good conscience, recommend Lion to any of my friends who may be thinking of trying out Mac. Maybe in a year or two when 10.7.x is out or maybe even 10.8, but at this point my recommendation is, go with a Snow Leopard machine or don't go at all.
Flame suit on.

I never understood how people can consider Lion to be "Apple's Vista" simply because they added more multi-touch features, and iOS scrollbars.

I honestly think (no offense) people making that comparison have not used Vista enough. When Vista first came out it was impossible to transfer large amounts of data from one drive to another due to a volume shadow copy issue (fixed in SP1) and networking was near broken. Lion didn't have those types of issues.

I don't want to sound like I'm bashing you for your opinion, that is not my intent (I'm talking in general here), but I think Lion gets more hate than it deserves. I have yet to know a single person in real life that has issues with Lion.

 

[Krazy Bill]

I never understood how people can consider Lion to be "Apple's Vista" simply because they added more multi-touch features, and iOS scrollbars.

Vista got bad press simply because of the bugs and lack of new driver support. Lion (for me anyway) is not about the bugs. I actually never had any real show-stoppers and I'm sure by 10.7.4 it will be pretty stable.

Again, for me it's more about the feature changes I don't like, mainly:

1.) Versions and...
2.) "Missing" Control

I could live with everything else. If Apple restores some semblance of Spaces and Expose' (Which Steve basically hailed as the 2nd coming of Christ) AND allows us to disable their file preservation scheme then I'm back.

I have yet to know a single person in real life that has issues with Lion.

Well, you may not "know" us here and consider MR not to be "real life" but we do exist.