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Why does smaller have to mean subpar?

iBreatheApple said:
Not only is the next generation iPhone about 6 months away, but the SE already lacks things the 6 and 6S have. Don't get me wrong, I'm somewhat impressed with the new phone and what it offers, but I want a 7 with a smaller screen and I hate that you have to sacrifice.
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I don't think they left out anything intentionally. I think the SE is basically a trial balloon to see if there is a market for this kind of phone. As such, they reused the 5S case design and some components to save cost. The old display explains the lack of 3D Touch. The lack of MIMO for Wifi could be a result of the antenna configuration (perhaps also the missing LTE band). The Touch ID sensors could be left-over stock from the 5S/6. But overall, I think it's still a great little phone and almost exactly what I want.

If the SE is a success, we may see a 4" phone as part of their main lineup in the future (as well as the return of smaller Android phones).
 
Benjamin Frost said:
You're so wrong.

The iPad has always been advertised as having 10 hours of battery life for browsing. Yet, within that figure, lie huge fluctuations, ranging from much less to much more. I have seen as much as over 13 hours in some tests, and less than 9 hours in real life, depending on which model it is and which year. So no, you don't have any idea of what you're getting when it comes to battery life, because Apple are so inaccurate with their quoted figures. It could be much better or much worse.

Did Apple do their homework with the iPad? Did they really want 10 quarters of plummeting sales? I don't think so. You have given an educated guess on how many SEs Apple will sell, then in the same breath, say that there is no way of making an educated guess.
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The "10 million" was a figure of speech(I should have used a smiley, I guess). If I could predict how many units apple could sell I would own MR, instead of just posting on it. But then again you said: "but I think Apple is pissing a hell of a lot of people off", so you couldn't know that anymore than I could predict sales.

I still don't care about what Anandtech says about the iphone SE and whether it gets more or less than rated battery life, and how fast or slow the processor is. I believe for most people I will be an appealing phone, and the reviews might only reinforce that (or not).

I believe apple did their homework with the ipad, but it is what it is as far as sales.
 
I7guy said:
The "10 million" was a figure of speech(I should have used a smiley, I guess). If I could predict how many units apple could sell I would own MR, instead of just posting on it. But then again you said: "but I think Apple is pissing a hell of a lot of people off", so you couldn't know that anymore than I could predict sales.

I still don't care about what Anandtech says about the iphone SE and whether it gets more or less than rated battery life, and how fast or slow the processor is. I believe for most people I will be an appealing phone, and the reviews might only reinforce that (or not).

I believe apple did their homework with the ipad, but it is what it is as far as sales.
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Let's face it: Apple have been floundering with the iPad since Steve Jobs died. It's too expensive and hasn't been advanced enough, particularly with the software.

Apple may have done their homework, but have gained a D- as a result.
 
Benjamin Frost said:
Let's face it: Apple have been floundering with the iPad since Steve Jobs died. It's too expensive and hasn't been advanced enough, particularly with the software.

Apple may have done their homework, but have gained a D- as a result.
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But the iPhone sales have been stellar; while the entire tablet market has gone down. At any rate iPad sales are for another discussion, but personally I'm not worried about it and we don't know what Apple is thinking.
 
What does the barometer do in an iPhone. The SE is missing that. I don't know what use an iPhone makes of it so I don't know if I would miss it having s barometer.
 
joeblow7777 said:
The majority still prefers larger phones and are willing to pay more for them, so that's where the priority and resources are going to go.
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No. The majority who have never owned a 4" iPhone 'prefer' the latest models either because of or despite their size (some wrongly assumed they would prefer it or had no choice if they wanted certain features or compatibility).

As Tim Cook admits, most people who have owned a 4" iPhone have have refused to change it for a bigger version. They (we) have struggled on despite ageing batteries, weakening home buttons, slow performance, etc. Now that's what I call a clear preference.
 
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LiveM said:
No. The majority who have never owned a 4" iPhone 'prefer' the latest models either because of or despite their size (some wrongly assumed they would prefer it or had no choice if they wanted certain features or compatibility).

As Tim Cook admits, most people who have owned a 4" iPhone have have refused to change it for a bigger version. They (we) have struggled on despite ageing batteries, weakening home buttons, slow performance, etc. Now that's what I call a clear preference.
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I've owned the iPhone 3G, 4 and 5S and I do not prefer a 4 inch phone. It's way too small. I owned the 3G for 1 year and then upgraded to the 4 which I kept for 2 years. However I was only able to keep the 5S for a month because I just found it too small. If Apple had not made the switch to larger screens then I'd most likely still be using a Samsung Galaxy phone.
 
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LiveM said:
No. The majority who have never owned a 4" iPhone 'prefer' the latest models either because of or despite their size (some wrongly assumed they would prefer it or had no choice if they wanted certain features or compatibility).

As Tim Cook admits, most people who have owned a 4" iPhone have have refused to change it for a bigger version. They (we) have struggled on despite ageing batteries, weakening home buttons, slow performance, etc. Now that's what I call a clear preference.
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I don't think that Tim Cook ever said that. Nor does that make sense. Most iPhone sales are not first time iPhone buyers, so if the majority who had owned 4 inch iPhones refused to change sales of the subsequent larger phones would have been at a record low, not a record high, and rather than getting a 4 inch iPhone se we would be getting a 4 inch iPhone 7.

I'm sure the se will sell well, but I doubt it will outsell the 6s even though it is now the newest model and less expensive.
 
iBreatheApple said:
Not only is the next generation iPhone about 6 months away, but the SE already lacks things the 6 and 6S have. Don't get me wrong, I'm somewhat impressed with the new phone and what it offers, but I want a 7 with a smaller screen and I hate that you have to sacrifice. No, I don't know what they will announce in the coming months but it's not unreasonable to say there will be no 4-inch version given the release of the SE.
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You haven't had anything better than a 2013 5s to pick up from up until this week, and you're going to complain that its only as good as a 2015 6s? Wow.
 
joeblow7777 said:
I don't think that Tim Cook ever said that. Nor does that make sense. Most iPhone sales are not first time iPhone buyers, so if the majority who had owned 4 inch iPhones refused to change sales of the subsequent larger phones would have been at a record low, not a record high, and rather than getting a 4 inch iPhone se we would be getting a 4 inch iPhone 7.
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Link
"Cook said that 60% of customers who have owned an iPhone prior to the iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus have not yet upgraded"
 
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LiveM said:
Link
"Cook said that 60% of customers who have owned an iPhone prior to the iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus have not yet upgraded"
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OK even if that's the case. There are 40 % of people who did upgrade and those people have used 4 inch iPhones. It's like you're trying to imply that people only choose the 6/6 plus because they don't know how much better a 4 inch phone is.
 
That's obviously true for lots of people, but that's not what I implied.

We know that 15% of sales in 2015 were of iPhone models that were over two years old, despite a very high price even after all this time. And we know that most people who have tried them prefer 4" iPhones and that the 6 and 6s range are mostly being bought by Android switchers.

So my point was that there is no point in Apple leaving anything out with the SE since most people are sticking with 4" and have done so despite Apple neglecting most of its estsblished customers.
 
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LiveM said:
Link
"Cook said that 60% of customers who have owned an iPhone prior to the iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus have not yet upgraded"
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But you're only inferring that that has anything to do with the size of the phone. I certainly know more people with pre-6 iPhones than with newer ones, and that's because like most people they aren't "techies" don't upgrade their phone every year. It's not because they're clinging to a 4" device. It's because an iPhone 5, 5c, or 5s, or in some cases even a 4s is still working fine for them.

Just think about it, if the majority of iPhone users want a 4" phone, why are they putting out the se midcycle with the last phone's internals, instead of making the iPhone 7 their 4" flagship in September? They're acknowledging that a lot of people still want a 4"phone, but not so many as to make it the company's flagship.

Do you really believe that the 6/6s achieved record sales mostly from new users? Because the market share data would then show a big increase for Apple, and it doesn't.
 
I think they're moving away from any device being their 'flagship', and instead providing choice.

And surely that's to be commended. (If it continues!)
 
BMcCoy said:
I think they're moving away from any device being their 'flagship', and instead providing choice.

And surely that's to be commended. (If it continues!)
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Ultimately there's always going to be a model with the best specs and that introduces the newest features like 3D Touch and live photos this time around. That model is the flagship. That's the one that they expect most people to buy and earn them the most profit. And that is never again going to be the 4" model.
 
SE is smaller and is NOT subpar; it is way better than my 6s yucky looking phone; I'm happy they didn't include some useless features such as 3D, barometer, front camera which I never use for selfies even on my 6s (I use back camera for occasional selfie simply by pointing toward me)...next iPhone 7 I'm sure will have some newer features but for me design of SE with powerful features is what rocks, small, easy to use, square edges (unlike slippery ugly 6s).
 
Apple can't make a phone to suit everyone's individual needs. The SE fits for most people who won't even notice the missing items. People will walk into the store and be happy to pickup a $400 iPhone.
 
I upgraded two years ago when the 6+ was released because I was sick of the iPhone 5 small screen, and now they release the SE and all I want to do is go back to a small screen... Kind of.

I think I miss the square shape more than anything. It was easier to hold, I dropped it much less, seemingly stronger, no protruding camera, and I never had to use a case.

Now if they would have made the SE with a 4.5" screen or even smaller bezels, I'd be all over it. Unfortunately they didn't and now I'll wait until the 7 is announced to decide which phone will replace the worst iPhone I've ever owned, the dumb 6+. (don't even get me started on this)
 
joeblow7777 said:
But you're only inferring that that has anything to do with the size of the phone. I certainly know more people with pre-6 iPhones than with newer ones, and that's because like most people they aren't "techies" don't upgrade their phone every year. It's not because they're clinging to a 4" device. It's because an iPhone 5, 5c, or 5s, or in some cases even a 4s is still working fine for them.
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The fact that when the latest 4" model became two years old without a replacement, iPhone sales started falling for the first time is significant in my view.

Just think about it, if the majority of iPhone users want a 4" phone, why are they putting out the se midcycle with the last phone's internals, instead of making the iPhone 7 their 4" flagship in September? They're acknowledging that a lot of people still want a 4"phone, but not so many as to make it the company's flagship.
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We don't know how preferences will change or be borne out in sales. Certainly the stickiness of the 4" form factor indicates there could be a swing and of the 40% who have tried both sizes we are seeing a lot of posts about people intending to go back to 4". The iPad has also seen the smallest screen size become the most popular but the available sizes of various devices does change buying patterns and how people use their devices.

Do you really believe that the 6/6s achieved record sales mostly from new users? Because the market share data would then show a big increase for Apple, and it doesn't.
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You have to appreciate that Android is several times more popular than iPhone, so it doesn't take a lot of switchers to make up the numbers for L and XL iPhones. The only numbers I know are 170 million big iPhones bought last year and 60% of Apple accounts have used only 4" iPhones or none at all.
 
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LiveM said:
The fact that when the latest 4" model became two years old without a replacement, iPhone sales started falling for the first time is significant in my view.



We don't know how preferences will change or be borne out in sales. Certainly the stickiness of the 4" form factor indicates there could be a swing and of the 40% who have tried both sizes we are seeing a lot of posts about people intending to go back to 4". The iPad has also seen the smallest screen size become the most popular but the available sizes of various devices does change buying patterns and how people use their devices.



You have to appreciate that Android is several times more popular than iPhone, so it doesn't take a lot of switchers to make up the numbers for L and XL iPhones. The only numbers I know are 170 million big iPhones bought last year and 60% of Apple accounts have used only 4" iPhones or none at all.
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Well, to be fair, correlation doesn't necessarily imply causation.
 
Of course. It's just one of several bits of evidence, but overall they do paint a picture.
 
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