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Why dosent apple adopt new technology?
- Thread starter iBunny
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I was just about to say that. If you wanna move a document that can fit on a floppy, forget a floppy, email it. Shoot, why didnt you just print it? And CDR's cost 5 Cents, so in theory, there are 26 CDR's under your sofa pillow...right...now.appleretailguy said:
umm more stuff use USB over firewire. Really thing about it how much stuff do you have the use firewire I think you come up with a short list. Now list you USB stuff and it be a long list. For firewire I got an ipod. For usb some where around 7 items long.
I think I stated earily who was leading. Everone else but it would be a small maker. But of the big names and the leader in manufactoring Apple is near dead last.
I think it kind of funny seeing how arguments change over time from Apple. From them braging about being the one pushing new standards to now they have to defind the fact that they are behind in the new standands and not pushing the limits to make new stuff standard.
I think I stated earily who was leading. Everone else but it would be a small maker. But of the big names and the leader in manufactoring Apple is near dead last.
I think it kind of funny seeing how arguments change over time from Apple. From them braging about being the one pushing new standards to now they have to defind the fact that they are behind in the new standands and not pushing the limits to make new stuff standard.
Timelessblur said:
so what have you got for usb 2? all 7 items please!
Firewire:
iPod (Mini, 3rg Gen, Original)
LaCie D2 CDRW Drive
LaCie Old 60GB External HD
USB 2:
iPod Shuffle, CF card reader (that I got free with a card)
USB 1.1 (Championed by apple lest we forget!)
Keyboard, printer, scanner
FW -5
USB2 - 2
USB1 - 3
What actually uses the datarate of usb 2 apart from external HD's and CD/DVD-R drives (of which there are plenty of firewire alternatives, including firewire 800)
So, apart from PCI-express and 802.11n (n for never gonna catch on!Timelessblur said:
) what have apple really missed? and on the + side Firewire 800, Gigabit Ethernet.Where it REALLY counts though, Apple is riht there. The OS.
Timelessblur said:
Yeah, and how much of that stuff requires greater than 11Mbps that USB 1.1 is capable of delivering? But of course with you, I bet you're going to say that 6 out of the 7 items need greater speed.
Timelessblur said:
What do you mean by who is leading? Do you simply mean who is incorporating ALL of the NEWEST technology? In that case, your own arguement about 802.11a is TOTALLY FLAWED since 802.11a is older than 802.11g! If you then try to say it's about technology that's BETTER/FASTER, then I guess that makes you a total liar. Since as you said, and I quote:
Timelessblur said:
Floppies are slower and less reliable. So, why should Apple put technology into their systems that isn't really being used just yet. If AGP8x is only at 60% capacity, would you see a benefit of Apple adopting PCIe for graphics when cards can't even use the full bandwidth?
Timelessblur said:
Andybody here work for Apple?
Timelessblur said:
Ok, do you have amnesia? YOU complained PowerMacs don't have PCIx, which then you've been proved wrong about, 3 times I might add. PCIx is a new standard. Bluetooth 2 is a new standard. SerialATA is a new standard.
jamdr said:
I think the biggest boat they missed was CDR drives. Remember when they jumped on the DVD bandwagon instead cause they were thinking everything was coming out on DVD for computers- but instead the only thing on dvd for software at the time was a MYST game(Riven?) and something else- PC world put in burners for cd's and Apple was way behind as a result for the multimedia- course they more than made up for it. Actually I think that was instrumental in Apple learning that you should not always do something unless there is content- and they are applying what they learned in the video iPod- no content yet, but when they dive into it the content will be there!
I am happy for the most part with most of their decisions- the cdr one really burned me
though- especially since I think it was the same time they dropped the floppy- burning cd's made sense at the time for those of us who didn't always want or could no send files by email.
Timelessblur said:
Don't know why I'm bothering - it won't make you think before posting - but just off the top of my head.
Firewire:
iPods, external HD, external CD/DVD writers, just about every digital video camera, many digital still cameras.
USB2:
Same as firewire
USB1.1:
keyboards, mice, printers
First, I think plinden made a very good point. Hardware-wise, sometimes Apple is ahead, sometimes they lag in some ways. Why is this surprising? But it is another matter entirely to act like they are "falling behind" for good because of a current lack of DL-burner inclusion, or whatever. Arguing that would be as ill-informed, if not worse, as arguing that Apple is always the best in everything. These things are cyclical, and for better or worse, Apple as the sole computer manufacturer for the Mac OS cannot release new systems every 2 months. And what about that OS ...?
Second, a couple hardware innovations of recent Apple history have gone unmentioned thus far. This is possibly because they are relatively banal, not nearly as nerd-sexy as PCIe or Blu-Ray, but they were nonetheless huge to the broader market. The TiBooks were not quite the first 15" laptops, but their combination of light weight and big screen created a new market space. As for 17" laptops, Apple made the world's first. Apple was also the first to put a DVD-burner in a laptop, I think. And I'd like to reiterate the innovation of the original clamshell iBooks and their built-in Airport cards: no other laptop manufacturer offered this feature at the time: built-in wireless networking. This was small technologically (Apple didn't invent 802.11b, they just decided to use it), but a huge development for the way we use laptops today (Centrino, anyone?).
Second, a couple hardware innovations of recent Apple history have gone unmentioned thus far. This is possibly because they are relatively banal, not nearly as nerd-sexy as PCIe or Blu-Ray, but they were nonetheless huge to the broader market. The TiBooks were not quite the first 15" laptops, but their combination of light weight and big screen created a new market space. As for 17" laptops, Apple made the world's first. Apple was also the first to put a DVD-burner in a laptop, I think. And I'd like to reiterate the innovation of the original clamshell iBooks and their built-in Airport cards: no other laptop manufacturer offered this feature at the time: built-in wireless networking. This was small technologically (Apple didn't invent 802.11b, they just decided to use it), but a huge development for the way we use laptops today (Centrino, anyone?).
my two cents
umm, i got me a G3/333 powerbook WAAAAYYYYYY back in '99. many, MANY colleagues gave me sheisse about it not having a floppy drive. I thought about getting an expansion bay one, but got a Zip drive instead.
have rarely used the Zip drive, and not for a coupla years since it **** itself and have never needed a floppy drive. the last time i used a 3.5" disc was sometime in 1998.
oh yeah, i still use that G3/333. currently on OS9.2. i whacked X.1 on it, but t'was dogarse slo, p'raps tiger will be a little more compatible with it. in hindsight, i should have coughed up for the G3/400 at the time, but the 333 still does what i bought it to do (scan negs/download from digi camera, view/edit and x-mit same). when it was new, it was king-sheisse laptop, still gets admiring glances these days.
so for my $4000 (OUCH), i have had six years of computing and have a machine that still has a use in my business. cheap!
Timelessblur said:
umm, i got me a G3/333 powerbook WAAAAYYYYYY back in '99. many, MANY colleagues gave me sheisse about it not having a floppy drive. I thought about getting an expansion bay one, but got a Zip drive instead.
have rarely used the Zip drive, and not for a coupla years since it **** itself and have never needed a floppy drive. the last time i used a 3.5" disc was sometime in 1998.
oh yeah, i still use that G3/333. currently on OS9.2. i whacked X.1 on it, but t'was dogarse slo, p'raps tiger will be a little more compatible with it. in hindsight, i should have coughed up for the G3/400 at the time, but the 333 still does what i bought it to do (scan negs/download from digi camera, view/edit and x-mit same). when it was new, it was king-sheisse laptop, still gets admiring glances these days.
so for my $4000 (OUCH), i have had six years of computing and have a machine that still has a use in my business. cheap!
James Philp said:
I think it's more a matter of, for every Firewire product on the shelf, there are 3 for USB, and the USB ones are cheaper. Now, admittedly, the Firewire ones probably use less CPU cycles, since Firewire is technically superior to USB in that matter, but some of us are on a budget, and some of us don't have access to Apple stores where the Firewire stuff is.
Here's a classic example: I went into a generic computer store a year or two ago, looking for a new scanner. There were parallel port ones and USB ones all over the place. I don't remember seeing a Firewire one anywhere for less than $100 CDN, whereas I could choose between several USB ones. I went with HP.
I've noticed that a bunch of people have made one common mistake. Wintel PC's were the first to have USB support. Problem was, it usually needed a card to use. Windows 95 included support for it. Still, nobody POPULARIZED USB like Apple did when they introduced the first iMac. After the iMac came out, manufacturers started really producing USB peripherals and the PC makers start including it in their machines.
The only technology that Apple was EXTREMELY reluctant to adopt was USB 2.0.
However, that was primarily due to the fact that they believed USB 2.0 would overtake Firewire. Looking back, that was a silly mistake, both technologies easily co-exsist.
However, that was primarily due to the fact that they believed USB 2.0 would overtake Firewire. Looking back, that was a silly mistake, both technologies easily co-exsist.
So is the scanner you got USB 1 or 2?
I find my scanner a bit slow, but I don't use it frequently.
This is all a bit mute, because the reason there are so many USB peripherals out there is because of Apple!
- Most people have access to this, and you can always find a firewire alternative. (Amaz-what?)
Sure, there may not be as many, and they may be more expensive, but this is generally because:
1. They are superior hence the cost.
2. They actually use the bandwidth and hence are faster.
I find my scanner a bit slow, but I don't use it frequently.
This is all a bit mute, because the reason there are so many USB peripherals out there is because of Apple!
Plus, do you have the internetMarkCollette said:
- Most people have access to this, and you can always find a firewire alternative. (Amaz-what?)Sure, there may not be as many, and they may be more expensive, but this is generally because:
1. They are superior hence the cost.
2. They actually use the bandwidth and hence are faster.
KingSleaze said:
To get really technical, only an OEM release of Windows 95 known as OSR 2 supported USB. Microsoft did not support USB in Windows 95a, which was the retail version of the product.
Microsoft started "really" supporting USB in Windows 98.
James Philp said:So is the scanner you got USB 1 or 2?
I find my scanner a bit slow, but I don't use it frequently.
This is all a bit mute, because the reason there are so many USB peripherals out there is because of Apple!
Plus, do you have the internet
Sure, there may not be as many, and they may be more expensive, but this is generally because:
1. They are superior hence the cost.
2. They actually use the bandwidth and hence are faster.
USB 1.1 runs at 11 Mbps, which is close to what a PC parallel port can do. In the old days, scanners came in two main flavors: slow parallel port ones, and faster SCSI ones. USB 2.0 scanners are basically a cheaper way of having the speed of older SCSI scanners. So, scanners have for a long time been capable of exceeding USB 1.1 bandwidth.
My scanner is USB 2.0, which is luckily backwards compatible with USB 1.1, so it at least works, abheit not as fast as possible.
I know that Apple popularised USB. But I also know that they used to make royalties off of Firewire, which might explain why they backed it over USB 2.0. Eventually they gave up, and I think they dropped the royalty.
Something that I think some people don't know, but not all USB 2.0 devices are HiSpeed. From Wikipeida:
USB 2.0 added a Hi-Speed rate of 480 Mbit (60 MBytes) per second. Not all USB 2.0 devices are Hi-Speed. A USB device should specify the speed it will use by correct labeling on the box it came in or sometimes on the device itself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB
USB 2.0 added a Hi-Speed rate of 480 Mbit (60 MBytes) per second. Not all USB 2.0 devices are Hi-Speed. A USB device should specify the speed it will use by correct labeling on the box it came in or sometimes on the device itself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB
I had a scsi HP scanner for my Pentium 2.
It was slow as hell compared to the one i currently use on my USB 1 ports!
That may be a machine speed thing though!
It was slow as hell compared to the one i currently use on my USB 1 ports!
That may be a machine speed thing though!
No kidding, my upper level Physics optical and nuclear labs use floppy disks as the ONLY way students can get information off of the computer except printing. I'd rather take a picture of the screen than save to a floppy drive, thankyou.mkrishnan said:Don't you think that's a little bit much? Have you ever tried using tape as a primary storage medium? That's what the computer we had when I was six years old had.... And my mother learned to program on *punch cards*!
I'm not sad to see the floppy go, as its time is past, but when it became the adopted standard, it was a huge improvement over what was in common use before it.
Oh but apparantly we have a professor who is a die hard mac user who has created some mac only apps to demo things like Fraunhoffer-Fresnel diffraction and what not. Now we have ONE mac in the physics department, that is except my ibook that I take to lab every day.
Good grief I stated no where that floppies where part of tech that should not of been dump if you Read back where I orginal stated stuff about floppies I just stated they have thier uses but I get flamed for it because I still use floppies. No where did I stated that floppies should/shoud not be dumped. I not willing to give them up yet because I still use them and it was a 10 buck insurences for me for the times I need it. No where did I stated that they needed to be sold. Go back and find the very first time I posted about floppies and it was just me stating that I still use them and I was correct some saying that they where useless.
For USB 2.0 what do I have that uses it
2 flash drives, my digicam use it, my printer/scanner uses it, web cam. As for just USB you have my keyboard, both my mice, I plug my calucaltor into USB, I also have a zip drive run though USB but I never really use it I just have one.
Firewire has less everyday stuff for it currently only the ipod. For most everything things a vast majority of people use USB 2.0. Even now the all mighty ipod is going USB 2.0 over firewire. You can use firewire but it not sold with firewire cable any more.
Beside PCI express Apple does not have Dual layer burners. I remeber when Apple users raved about how PC where behind the times because they did not have firewire. Now it the other way around Apple users have to eat the fact that they can not get Daul layer burners with their computer, They can not get PCI express.
For USB 2.0 what do I have that uses it
2 flash drives, my digicam use it, my printer/scanner uses it, web cam. As for just USB you have my keyboard, both my mice, I plug my calucaltor into USB, I also have a zip drive run though USB but I never really use it I just have one.
Firewire has less everyday stuff for it currently only the ipod. For most everything things a vast majority of people use USB 2.0. Even now the all mighty ipod is going USB 2.0 over firewire. You can use firewire but it not sold with firewire cable any more.
Beside PCI express Apple does not have Dual layer burners. I remeber when Apple users raved about how PC where behind the times because they did not have firewire. Now it the other way around Apple users have to eat the fact that they can not get Daul layer burners with their computer, They can not get PCI express.
Works fine. Do what I did, and buy a combo USB/firewire case and a regular IDE cd-burner. Any will do, but go to www.xlr8yourmac.com to see if it's got native support in OS X or if you need PatchBurn. Or go all out and just buy a Pioneer DVD-R.MarkCollette said:
BTW - PCI-E sucks at this point. Like DDR2, it's no better than the tech it's trying to replace. All but the low end PowerMacs support PCI-X. 1 133MHz one and 2 100MHz ones. 802.11n is nothing at this point. It's not even like Gb ethernet was a few years ago. You can buy Mac compatible USB to 802.11 adapters for older Macs if you don't want to buy used. It is too bad that the b and g connectors are different so older users are locked out of newer cards. USB 2 should have been fully adopted years ago, but it wasn't. Now it is. Same with ATA/133, but now we have Serial/ATA. Floppies suck. You still need them, buy a USB floppy device. High end PowerBooks have PC Card slots. Always have. Dual layer would be nice. If you must have it, buy an external or replace the internal. Some people have even hacked the current drives to make them DL compatible. Hopefully the next update has them standard. If not, then b*tch. No one has Blu-Ray. Too expensive, not standardized. Wait a year. It's supported in up coming software, so if you must have it, go ahead and buy it.
And we can stop arguing with Timelessblur. It's not like we're going to get anywhere. We're all just zealots who can't see how horribly overpriced and underpowered Macs are.
You've said this about 10 times in this thread, at least. We get it. We've already done our best to tell you why A) Apple no longer pushes the newest technology first (learned from past mistakes) and B) Why Apple are staying out of these two particular technologies for now. You've done your best to ignore us. This thread should be locked, as it's clearly going nowhere.Timelessblur said:
jared_kipe said:
Yeah, physics labs are notorious that way!
I had to measure the lifetime of the muon with a Mac II. 
what about email?
Floppies can only hold 1.4mb why not just email the file?
Most newer PCs are dropping floppies as well. There is no need for floppies with email, CDs, flash drives, and portab le hard drives (iPods included)
Timelessblur said:
Floppies can only hold 1.4mb why not just email the file?
Most newer PCs are dropping floppies as well. There is no need for floppies with email, CDs, flash drives, and portab le hard drives (iPods included)