Why I'm switching to PC after 17 years of being on a Mac

[Queen6]

I don't think this is entirely accurate. The 460 offers the best relative gaming performance on a MBP ever. This is the first time that a MBP can play all contemporary games at reasonable settings and achieve good results. Its certainly a poor card if high-quality gaming is a target, of course. But don't forget that the vast majority of currently sold gaming laptops still come with a 950M/960M, which are slower than the Pro 460. In fact, the Pro 460 is faster than 70% or so of the GPUs on Steam survey (including desktop cards).

The issue with the video discussed in the post you quote is that the reviewer was being a bit dumb. He was using a game (Mafia 3) that even high-end desktop cards were having difficulties with. Given the settings he was running it on, the MBP actually performed quite well.

I have no idea what you keep repeating over & over that gaming notebooks will come with 950M/960M GPU, I can walk out my door and choose from multiple gaming notebooks all with 10 series GPU`s right now. Simply more nonsense & inaccuracy. All the major players have updated their hardware. You just want to state this to improve opinion of the MBP, even the SurfaceBook with Performance Base has a GTX 965M now, that outperforms the 460. Majority of gaming notebooks are now shipping with 1060/1070 GPU, the 1050 will likely land in the thin & light category. Alienware even now offer a 13" quad core with a 1060 dGPU.

The Radeon 460 excels at one thing low wattage, nothing else, it runs great with Apple`s optimised applications such as FCPX, outside of that, it`s Apple`s typical mid - low range offering. There are direct comparisons of the 460 versus 9 & 10 series Nvidia GPU in Adobe premier and be assured the 460 was not at the forefront, with some reviewers actively not recommending the MBP due to the disparity in performance. Major problem people keep accepting it so Apple continues down this path.

I dont agree with this YT reviewers tactic, equally the MBP remains as it alway has been a poor choice for those with gaming mind. As for VR forget it on any current Mac, we are precluded by default due to the weak configurations and senseless obsession with being ever thinner.

I do agree that this iteration of MBP is closer to being capable of gaming on than any other, and probably god enough for the casual gamer.

Q-6

 

[leman]

I disagree here, the 460 is inline with what apple has always offered as a discreet card in MacBooks. Each of the MacBooks I have owned has been reasonable at gaming, playing the titles available at the time.

Well, both 650M and 750M had difficulties playing demanding games of their time (all you could hope for was 20-25 fps on low/medium settings), while Polaris 11 manages much better framerates in modern games at comparable settings.

I use relative performance in my opinion cause the 460 is poor versus the nvidia 10xx offerings in PC laptops, the 460 is the best apple could put in for power consumption purposes and max profit to be honest. I still stand by the fact nvidia are producing superior GPU offerings his time round, and the 460 is weak when compared to what you get for similar priced laptops.

The problem is that Nvidia does not offer a single Pascal GPU in that power consumption category. The lowest-tier Pascal
is around 2-2.5 times faster than the Pro 460, with around 2-2.5 higher power consumption. I am very much looking forward to see how the 1050 mobile will perform in comparison to Polaris. So far, the AMD chip seems to have a better performance/power consumption characteristics at lower frequencies, while Pascal appears to hit its sweet spot at higher power consumption. But again, we don't really know the TDP of the mobile Pascal and throughout benchmarks of Pro 460 are also still pending.

I use dollar value in determining the worth of a product and given the pricing this time round, the 460 is weak.

There is no doubt that one can get a laptop with a beefier GPU for same amount or even less money, but these laptops will have other compromises (CPU/SSD/Battery/display etc.). E.g. MS puts a significantly faster 965M into their SB with performance base, but they do it at the cost of CPU performance. Blade has a fast GPU, but has to cut down its battery and push its thermal design to the limits, etc.

Its a little bit unfortunate, really. I am not aware of a single laptop on the market that would use a Pascal series GPU, offer good battery life, good quality screen etc. and still be sufficiently mobile to work as a professional laptop (sub 2.5 kg). Blade probably comes closest to this, but its battery life is really underwhelming.

 

[Queen6]

I disagree here, the 460 is inline with what apple has always offered as a discreet card in MacBooks. Each of the MacBooks I have owned has been reasonable at gaming, playing the titles available at the time.

I use relative performance in my opinion cause the 460 is poor versus the nvidia 10xx offerings in PC laptops, the 460 is the best apple could put in for power consumption purposes and max profit to be honest. I still stand by the fact nvidia are producing superior GPU offerings his time round, and the 460 is weak when compared to what you get for similar priced laptops.

I use dollar value in determining the worth of a product and given the pricing this time round, the 460 is weak.

The fact that it's Faster than X percentage on steam survey means very little actually, it's a current machine , so therefore you should not be comparing it to older models, but to what nvidia is offering or even amd in PC laptops.

I believe we will agree to disagree on this topic

The 10 series Nvidia GPU will literally decimate the 460 be it in professional or recreational use, the 460 only holds it`s own in a few highly optimised applications for the time being that is.

Adobe Premier Render Times, the facts are what they are, very much speaking for themselves, every chance a notebook with a Nvidia 1070 will be hitting the same or faster time than a Mac Pro, let alone the 460 Radeon...

The 2016 MBP is a very nice notebook, equally as the chart above exemplifies the 2016 MBP offers poor value.

Q-6

 

[leman]

I have no idea what you keep repeating over & over that gaming notebooks will come with 950M/960MGPU, I can walk out my door and choose from multiple gaming notebooks all with 10 series GPU`s right now.

Somehow talking to you makes me feel like a participant of a political debate, you just like to grab any kind of ambiguity in what i write and use it agains me. At the same time, I am way to lazy to make sure that I phrase everything super-carefully.

Ok, to reiterate. I never claimed that "gaming notebooks will come with 950M/960MGPU". I said "the majority of currently sold gaming laptops offer 950M/960M level of performance". Of course, its a conjecture (based in part on some indirect sales info and in part on steam hardware surveys). The idea is that the product that is sold most is the BUDGET one. And the BUDGET gaming laptops are still the Maxwell ones. Now, when mobile 1050 and 1050Ti will be available, these will become the new budget cards and therefore will get healthy amount of sales.

There is no question that MPB is not a gaming laptop and someone who buys it solely for gaming is of questionable sanity. But the fact remains is that MBP's (with 460 Pro) gaming performance is more then adequate for some gaming given the hardware what is currently present on the market.

 

[Rafterman]

Well i stopped at the MS store to play with a surface book pro (that thing is pretty cool , you have to admit) and playing with it , it was buggy, crashing hell and was immediately reminded why I hated them in the first place.

A buggy, crashing hell? What exactly were you doing to it? I use Windows as much as Mac OS (and tested a Surface Pro for several months) and Mac OS is no longer any more or less stable than Windows is now, The age of crashing bluescreen Windows is pretty much over.

 

[Queen6]

Somehow talking to you makes me feel like a participant of a political debate, you just like to grab any kind of ambiguity in what i write and use it agains me. At the same time, I am way to lazy to make sure that I phrase everything super-carefully.

Ok, to reiterate. I never claimed that "gaming notebooks will come with 950M/960MGPU". I said "the majority of currently sold gaming laptops offer 950M/960M level of performance". Of course, its a conjecture (based in part on some indirect sales info and in part on steam hardware surveys). The idea is that the product that is sold most is the BUDGET one. And the BUDGET gaming laptops are still the Maxwell ones. Now, when mobile 1050 and 1050Ti will be available, these will become the new budget cards and therefore will get healthy amount of sales.

There is no question that MPB is not a gaming laptop and someone who buys it solely for gaming is of questionable sanity. But the fact remains is that MBP's (with 460 Pro) gaming performance is more then adequate for some gaming given the hardware what is currently present on the market.

Agree with much you are saying, I just think you should compare Apple`s to well Apple`s and I agree that the 2016 is the best portable Mac yet for anyone considering using for the likes of 3D gaming.

Q-6

 

[leman]

Adobe Premier Render Times, the facts are what they are, very much speaking for themselves, every chance a notebook with a Nvidia 1070 will be hitting the same or faster time than a Mac Pro, let alone the 460 Radeon...

The 2016 MBP is a very nice notebook, equally as the chart above exemplifies the 2016 MBP offers poor value.

The only thing this exemplifies is that Adobe programmers are either too lazy to do their job properly or simply have no interest in building a well-performing non-CUDA version. There is NO OBJECTIVE REASON why a CUDA version should be that much faster on 960M than a OpenCL/Metal version on Polaris 11, except that its simply a much more polished and better written one. A proof is trivial: Final Cut somehow manages to get much more performance out of the hardware.

BTW, the other thing that this test shows neatly is that the GPU performance doesn't really scale that much in these workflows (virtually no difference between 960M and the 2.5times faster 1060).

P.S. Of course that doesn't change the fact that Premier users will get better performance with CUDA, but its a bit of a chicken and an egg problem. We have a situation where a monopolist actively prefers hardware from one vendor, artificially rendering competitor's hardware less attractive. This entire situation stinks IMO, but that is unfortunately a fairly common occurrence. I don't know whether its a conspiracy or just a historic accident (CUDA is really very nice to work with) — probably a bit of both — but I still don't like it.

 

[GenesisST]

I have been a Mac user since the first Intel iMac and I had never looked back until now. (I know it's not long for some people in here )

I had no plan to replace my trusty 2010 15" MBP yet, but then the logic board died and I couldn't turn it on at all. I was willing to fork a few hundreds for a new logic board, but at the Apple Store, it was classified as "vintage", so no parts available. The interwebz had the part with varying prices and seller trustiness with no guarantee that it would even work.

Since that computer had become the family (AKA kids') computer, I didn't want to fork that much money on a new MBP. Refurbs seemed to be low in selection (wonder why!) and the refurbs were for almost 2 year old machines or even some from 2012!

In the end, I ordered a Dell Inspiron 13" from the microsoft store on Black Friday with Windows 10 Signature Edition (AKA no crapware). Verdict: everyone in the household loves it, including myself, which was a surprise! And with that machine, I could install the SSD I had put in my MBP and bump up the RAM...

Disclaimer: I still have a 2014 MBP for work, so not entirely a Mac-less household.

 

[born2runak]

A buggy, crashing hell? What exactly were you doing to it? I use Windows as much as Mac OS (and tested a Surface Pro for several months) and Mac OS is no longer any more or less stable than Windows is now, The age of crashing bluescreen Windows is pretty much over.

lol, don't take it personally, I wasn't doing anything to it that someone browsing a demo unit wouldn't do. I had several applications crash, and some general lag. Like I said , it's a demo unit, so I don't hold it against MS.

 

[PhoneI]

I used to think like you, hunting for the perfect thing. Now I learned, you have to give up something. In this case, you are giving up on a the aesthetics with the ugly bezel.

It not just that its ugly. It is symmetrically annoying. Imagine a crazy large bezel at the bottom, and almost no bezel at the top. When you fold the screen over for touch mode, the large bezel flips from bottom to top. It constantly annoyed me when I was using.

 

[tann]

For me too the price is the issue. The other smaller issues are just adding insult to injury.

 

[Count Blah]

It's new tech. Just look at the price of the original MBA and then look at the MBA a few years later.

I understand YOUR line of reasoning. But the slimmer design(puke), removal of ports(double puke), improved display, "improved" keyboard, improved trackpad, etc... are equivalent to prior model's price increases. But NOW we have an iWatch built into the MBP as well. THAT is not going to come down in price as much as these other changes will. Sorry, expect ANY Mac with this tool bar to remain higher price than normal.

 

[Capt T]

That's not what I've been reading. The SSD is crazy fast, no argument, but the CPU is slower, I've seen enough reviews that state normal work takes longer. The GPU seems decent, no fast, but decent.

As for the battery, that's just down right sad. The display is brighter (and thus taking more power), and the TouchBar is always processing in the background, yet Apple reduced the size of the battery. I don't know about you, but I can be away from a power outlet for hours on end. I want something that will last all day.

So why is some random reviewer on the Internet any more right that the random users on this forum that use them everyday and see a speed increase in their workflow?

As to the battery, most are not just running the machine with only safari open...so would be very surprised to see anyone doing work that requires Adobe or CAD or excel to get a full 10 hours. Yes some are getting bad battery life and need to look into it...but some are testing at full brightness and under a heavy load to get the low battery times, and in those conditions, it should be no surprise.

 

[protoxx]

It not just that its ugly. It is symmetrically annoying. Imagine a crazy large bezel at the bottom, and almost no bezel at the top. When you fold the screen over for touch mode, the large bezel flips from bottom to top. It constantly annoyed me when I was using.

Vanity is it's own reward. First world hipster problem.

 

[SteveJUAE]

This is now becoming ever more common as are system wide failures. IMO Apple should revert to the previous 24 month cycle and get back to focusing on quality & productivity not emoji`s. That said Apple wont as 80% good enough for the avg user, and that`s Apple`s target audience, albeit "well heeled" and why I am ever more moving to Microsoft`s solutions.

I wish we knew who's Apple target audience is in 2016/17 for MAC's (MBP)

The core group is <5% of the computing world that want to buy a high end and so priced laptop

I doubt all are well heeled or Win10 Phobic or Eco trapped

Now if your a diehard OSX fan then your in a one horse race and can do nothing but sit in the saddle and enjoy the ride wherever Apple wishes to take you and I have no problem if this is your single reasoning

But for the rest one has to wonder

For those on budgets then the options, or lack of for future upgrading. The associated cost of new peripherals not at your leisure combined with the risks of new KB design (1st gen not doing well), fully integrated MB with a proprietary driven SSD that is not easy to replace and an overworked smaller battery is probably ringing alarm bells for many.

For those not financially restrained then there is nothing worse than not being able to have the latest, greatest etc. Imagine popping down to Audi/BMW/Mercedes and the sales man says we made our new one lighter, lower and slimmer but you can only go 70mph as that's all you need and BTW the fuel tank is also smaller, pick any other analogy you like but when you start paying over $3k you export more options not less Ok Apple may well of done this to some degree in the past but there flagship seems neutered for the sake of a few mm's or grams, sorry less is not more in the case for those that are spec proud and demanded standalone endurance.

As for build quality there is no discernible change externally it's as it's been for years same milled shell that's nice, Internally there maybe some clever thermal design considerations but most companies are doing this every year not 3 or more.

In hardware no one will object to Apples supremacy for TP design but the KB is still hotly debated by many, even the hardest of Apple fans seem split and sticky or failing keys has been resurrected, though we had thought were a thing of the distant past.

Apple seems to have lost all wind in being inspirational where the world of touch, pen 2 in1 flip swivel detachable etc continue to encourage all manner of configurations (some good some bad) and not just refinement of a clamshell thickness and weight which has mainly driven the new KP and TP

The screen got a bump in colour and brightness which most will be afraid to use on battery and the professions that require theses are probably already using an external monitor etc for proofing, so it was a nice to have.

The new touch bar verdict is still out for many I have not read that it employs and fuzzy or predictive logic or most used functionality outside of spelling even the little Lenovo book with it's unique KB/Digitizer learns your typing and adopts the keys

As I noted before I see only increased risk and cost for Apple consumers via stealth entrapment on services or goods

So who is the new MBP aimed at ?

The modestly demanding user who's not ready to try Win10 ?

The die hard OSX and those with significant software or unique reasons are a given, so who else ?

No one wins if Apple discontinue MAC's so is it not in all's interest that Apple can lure a significant over from the Win10 camp even if its only hardware and bootcamp users

I can only presume and assume that Apple are content with it's lot and happy to take advantage of this group as it see fit or will they surprise use all in 2017, don't hold your breath IMO

 

[thesaint024]

I wish we knew who's Apple target audience is in 2016/17 for MAC's (MBP)

The core group is <5% of the computing world that want to buy a high end and so priced laptop

I doubt all are well heeled or Win10 Phobic or Eco trapped

Now if your a diehard OSX fan then your in a one horse race and can do nothing but sit in the saddle and enjoy the ride wherever Apple wishes to take you and I have no problem if this is your single reasoning

But for the rest one has to wonder

For those on budgets then the options, or lack of for future upgrading. The associated cost of new peripherals not at your leisure combined with the risks of new KB design (1st gen not doing well), fully integrated MB with a proprietary driven SSD that is not easy to replace and an overworked smaller battery is probably ringing alarm bells for many.

For those not financially restrained then there is nothing worse than not being able to have the latest, greatest etc. Imagine popping down to Audi/BMW/Mercedes and the sales man says we made our new one lighter, lower and slimmer but you can only go 70mph as that's all you need and BTW the fuel tank is also smaller, pick any other analogy you like but when you start paying over $3k you export more options not less Ok Apple may well of done this to some degree in the past but there flagship seems neutered for the sake of a few mm's or grams, sorry less is not more in the case for those that are spec proud and demanded standalone endurance.

As for build quality there is no discernible change externally it's as it's been for years same milled shell that's nice, Internally there maybe some clever thermal design considerations but most companies are doing this every year not 3 or more.

In hardware no one will object to Apples supremacy for TP design but the KB is still hotly debated by many, even the hardest of Apple fans seem split and sticky or failing keys has been resurrected, though we had thought were a thing of the distant past.

Apple seems to have lost all wind in being inspirational where the world of touch, pen 2 in1 flip swivel detachable etc continue to encourage all manner of configurations (some good some bad) and not just refinement of a clamshell thickness and weight which has mainly driven the new KP and TP

The screen got a bump in colour and brightness which most will be afraid to use on battery and the professions that require theses are probably already using an external monitor etc for proofing, so it was a nice to have.

The new touch bar verdict is still out for many I have not read that it employs and fuzzy or predictive logic or most used functionality outside of spelling even the little Lenovo book with it's unique KB/Digitizer learns your typing and adopts the keys

As I noted before I see only increased risk and cost for Apple consumers via stealth entrapment on services or goods

So who is the new MBP aimed at ?

The modestly demanding user who's not ready to try Win10 ?

The die hard OSX and those with significant software or unique reasons are a given, so who else ?

No one wins if Apple discontinue MAC's so is it not in all's interest that Apple can lure a significant over from the Win10 camp even if its only hardware and bootcamp users

I can only presume and assume that Apple are content with it's lot and happy to take advantage of this group as it see fit or will they surprise use all in 2017, don't hold your breath IMO

Sure, Apple is "content with it's lot and happy to take advantage of this group as it see fit". A little cynical I think about current Apple buyers. You're failing to see the main group that Apple is building for or their computer needs. This is basically the same group that buys iPhones and they are not being quiet about this strategy. They are creating a unified ecosystem for people who love iOS. Mac OS has been steadily increasing their modest market share since the iOS era. iOS users are regular people. It's funny that you left out this group. Most people seem to want thin and light laptops just like their phones. They aren't editing 4k video or running VM's or needing 15 peripherals to plug in on a LAPTOP. Maybe YOU guys do, but I'd make an educated guess that you are not representative of the computer buying consumers.

I'm closer to a regular joe in terms of computer needs. It's clear that many of you guys are not, or like to think you need something more "pro". Apple is catering towards regular productivity users (many more of these people). For this group these design choices make a lot of sense and it's hard to see what's not to get. It's a pretty smart business decision.

Nothing wrong with having specialized needs and everyone should buy what they need. If this iteration didn't work out for you, it's likely to keep heading in that direction in the future. Jumping ship now makes sense for this group of specialized needs users. Second guessing Apple's strategy is not productive and is likely wrong. They do pretty well going after a larger market.

 

[PhoneI]

Vanity is it's own reward. First world hipster problem.

I guess compared to the other "3rd world" problems most other people discuss here

 

[Michael Scrip]

The 460 offers the best relative gaming performance on a MBP ever. This is the first time that a MBP can play all contemporary games at reasonable settings and achieve good results. Its certainly a poor card if high-quality gaming is a target, of course. But don't forget that the vast majority of currently sold gaming laptops still come with a 950M/960M, which are slower than the Pro 460. In fact, the Pro 460 is faster than 70% or so of the GPUs on Steam survey (including desktop cards).

Yes... the 960M is slower than the Pro 460. But you'll have to spend at least $2,600 to get the Pro 460 in the latest 15" MacBook Pro.

That's when "value for dollars" comes into play. Is the Pro 460 that good?

You can get the Dell Inspiron 15 Gaming with the same quad-core processor as the 15" MBP (i7-6700HQ) with 16GB of RAM and the aforementioned GTX 960M for $1,300.

Will the 960M in the Dell be a little slower? Sure! But the Dell is also HALF the price of the Macbook Pro with the Pro 460. That's gotta count for something.

Granted... the Dell falls short in other areas besides graphics. It is heavier and not made out of aluminum. And it runs Windows 10. But it has a great UHD 3840x2160 screen and two replaceable SSD/HDD slots for affordable storage upgrades. (SATA only... but still plenty fast)

It's honestly a ton of horsepower for not a lot of money.

Of course if you need to run MacOS on a 15" laptop... then the 15" Macbook Pro is your only option. You will also get faster PCIe storage, Thunderbolt 3, and MacOS that the Dell simply cannot offer.

But you will also be paying twice the price of the Dell. Or as others have said in this thread... more than you previously paid to get a Mac.

Macs have always carried a premium price. But today it's ridiculous.

 

[ExcelTronic]

I thought I would share my opinion, as Apple's choices have opted me to consider my next main personal platform to be Windows 10. I'm a computer programmer that has used Mac computers since the Bondi Blue iMac with OS 9, and lately their decisions towards the MacBook Pro have turned into puzzling thoughts.

Touchbar
The touchbar does really feel like a gimmick that slows down productivity. And as a developer, it's hard to find a reason to build apps for it. I have thought long about how it can help users, but, in the end, I have always approached a rock. If I need a multi-touch gesture, there's the amazing trackpad, or if quick commands need to be used, there's always shortcut commands. So in the end, I believe that the touchbar is just a glorified visual shortcut guide.

Design
Making the MacBook Pro thinner is neat, but it seems to come with a cost. The battery watt-hour is a bit smaller now, and while I understand having only USB-C as standard, why drop the SD Card slot? So in the end, if Apple figured out how to keep MagSafe with USB-C, and leave the SD Card slot, people wouldn't be complaining as much. But then comes the deal breaker for me, the SSD. My personal data is very important, and I feel that I shouldn't have to have Apple transfer my data to another computer if something happens, especially after reading about some Apple employees stealing nude photo from an iPhone. I understand I can used a external hard drive, but in the end it really does feel like planned obsolescence.

Identity
Dropping the glowing Apple logo is key to the fading of the Mac's loss of identity, and while others simply don't care about it, it was the little half bitten logo to illuminate the MacBook's existence.
The MacBook Pro seems to also fight with the MacBook in the same issue of identity, especially among pricing.

So basically TL;DR
* Touchbar = Gimmick
* All USB-C = OK
* No SD Card Slot & Soldered SSD = BAD

As for Windows 10, I love that I can use a Linux OS along with Windows NT Kernel, and the BSOD is now very rare, and so far very stable. Both operating systems have their own strengths, such as MacOS's excellent Automation & HFS+ file system, and Windows with their Visual Studio & great catalog of x86 software. I'll have to mess with Windows 10 some more (like comments for a file & custom thumbnails), but Apple's change of direction is now making my change direction.

I use a:
MacBook Pro 17" 2010 w/ i5 2.56Ghz Dual-Core 8GB (connected on a 2560x1920 21:9 UltraWide Screen Monitor)
Quad-Core i5 4000 Series Windows 10 Mini Tower. Custom Built for Unity programming and Blender

 

[WhiteWhaleHolyGrail]

So concisely speaking you don't like the current MBPs as the touch bar just doesn't do it for you, you miss the Apple bedtime light of old and have some kind of concern over data protection? If the shoe doesn't fit don't wear it but I must say that these are rather loose concerns - touchbar has massive capabilities that haven't been exposed yet, the old logo let in light which created shadowing on the screen and Apple are not alone in soldering in components - good practice suggests you should always transfer data out prior to servicing.

Tried the Dell Inspiron - it's powerful AND it can underpin your house.

 

[thesaint024]

I thought I would share my opinion, as Apple's choices have opted me to consider my next main personal platform to be Windows 10. I'm a computer programmer that has used Mac computers since the Bondi Blue iMac with OS 9, and lately their decisions towards the MacBook Pro have turned into puzzling thoughts.

Touchbar
The touchbar does really feel like a gimmick that slows down productivity. And as a developer, it's hard to find a reason to build apps for it. I have thought long about how it can help users, but, in the end, I have always approached a rock. If I need a multi-touch gesture, there's the amazing trackpad, or if quick commands need to be used, there's always shortcut commands. So in the end, I believe that the touchbar is just a glorified visual shortcut guide.

Design
Making the MacBook Pro thinner is neat, but it seems to come with a cost. The battery watt-hour is a bit smaller now, and while I understand having only USB-C as standard, why drop the SD Card slot? So in the end, if Apple figured out how to keep MagSafe with USB-C, and leave the SD Card slot, people wouldn't be complaining as much. But then comes the deal breaker for me, the SSD. My personal data is very important, and I feel that I shouldn't have to have Apple transfer my data to another computer if something happens, especially after reading about some Apple employees stealing nude photo from an iPhone. I understand I can used a external hard drive, but in the end it really does feel like planned obsolescence.

Identity
Dropping the glowing Apple logo is key to the fading of the Mac's loss of identity, and while others simply don't care about it, it was the little half bitten logo to illuminate the MacBook's existence.
The MacBook Pro seems to also fight with the MacBook in the same issue of identity, especially among pricing.

So basically TL;DR
* Touchbar = Gimmick
* All USB-C = OK
* No SD Card Slot & Soldered SSD = BAD

As for Windows 10, I love that I can use a Linux OS along with Windows NT Kernel, and the BSOD is now very rare, and so far very stable. Both operating systems have their own strengths, such as MacOS's excellent Automation & HFS+ file system, and Windows with their Visual Studio & great catalog of x86 software. I'll have to mess with Windows 10 some more (like comments for a file & custom thumbnails), but Apple's change of direction is now making my change direction.

I use a:
MacBook Pro 17" 2010 w/ i5 2.56Ghz Dual-Core 8GB (connected on a 2560x1920 21:9 UltraWide Screen Monitor)
Quad-Core i5 4000 Series Windows 10 Mini Tower. Custom Built for Unity programming and Blender

I'll say this on behalf of the majority of users, not necessarily you or MR members. The design is what the mass market wants in a portable computer. Small and light are keys to portability. There are tradeoffs for sure. I remember taking my 09 MBP on one trip and religiously backing up my photos in the super convenient built in SD reader. I did that one time only because the computer was simply too big to lug around in my carry-on kit. You could feel the extra weight. After that, I opted to just leave the computer at home. It was not portable to my standards and most non-pro photographer standards. So I rarely used the SD reader again because the package it came in was too big.

When I go on a business trip, I had to lug around that laptop with the unused built in SD reader and all the other unused ports simply because I had no choice. Now I have flexibility. If I want to, I can bring a 1 oz SD reader with me. On a business trip, I can leave it at home. If there is no presentation, I can leave the HDMI, VGA, DP dongles behind. Honestly, how often have you or I used DP, SD, HDMI, ethernet while MOBILE. I may use a usb-a on rare occasion. I'm frankly thrilled I don't have to lug all that crap around with me everywhere. If something suddenly comes up (very unlikely), I'll just buy whatever adapter/cable I need. I know you're cool with the usb-c connectivity, but I'm also glad for ONLY usb-c. It's flexible and everything is optional to suit whatever needs for specific uses. I carry only what I need now. And the fact that it's smaller and lighter makes it much more likely I'll take the laptop with me. This makes losing things like the SD reader well worth the tradeoff for occasional convenience. It makes every day better for 95% of owners.

Soldered SSD is a big downside, I agree. If that's what they had to do to cut down space, I'll accept it. If it is to make these disposable, that's indefensible. However, calling the touchbar a gimmick without even seeing what developers can do with it is unfair and close minded. Saying it's "TBD" is much better because I don't think any of us can make an intelligent argument that it's only a gimmick a few weeks in. You can make the argument that GUI is a gimmick, but it realistically made computing more accessible to many people. Just because you could operate a computer and do the same things using DOS commands doesn't mean it's best for everyone. I see the same for non-power users and the touchbar. Most regular people don't memorize what function keys do. Not surprising that power users do, but these are for the mass market. I don't see use in mine beyond a custom lock button, but I'm not writing it off after 3 weeks.

As far as loss of identity, I don't think Apple's glowing logo represented it's identity by any means. Somehow correlating that to pricing is a real stretch too. Apple has always moved forward. We aren't lamenting the loss of Apple's famous all white Macbook or those ridiculous candy colored computers. Tastes and styles change. I for one am glad the gaudiness was toned down a little. Those were sooo 2010. Finally, I agree with you. This MBP doesn't fit a lot of people it used to. It's more mainstream now. Nothing wrong with WinPC's. They give you real choice with the 100's out there.

 

[SteveJUAE]

Sure, Apple is "content with it's lot and happy to take advantage of this group as it see fit". A little cynical I think about current Apple buyers. You're failing to see the main group that Apple is building for or their computer needs. This is basically the same group that buys iPhones and they are not being quiet about this strategy. They are creating a unified ecosystem for people who love iOS. Mac OS has been steadily increasing their modest market share since the iOS era. iOS users are regular people. It's funny that you left out this group. Most people seem to want thin and light laptops just like their phones. They aren't editing 4k video or running VM's or needing 15 peripherals to plug in on a LAPTOP. Maybe YOU guys do, but I'd make an educated guess that you are not representative of the computer buying consumers.

I'm closer to a regular joe in terms of computer needs. It's clear that many of you guys are not, or like to think you need something more "pro". Apple is catering towards regular productivity users (many more of these people). For this group these design choices make a lot of sense and it's hard to see what's not to get. It's a pretty smart business decision.

Nothing wrong with having specialized needs and everyone should buy what they need. If this iteration didn't work out for you, it's likely to keep heading in that direction in the future. Jumping ship now makes sense for this group of specialized needs users. Second guessing Apple's strategy is not productive and is likely wrong. They do pretty well going after a larger market.

Sure a little cynical

I'm happy to accept your opinion that's there is large/main group of Mac buyers that progress from IOS to OSX in the absence that none of us have any real documented evidence we can only express opinions and views which is fine for general discussions

I did not leave this group out but asked who the MBP was aimed at and thanks for highlighting another group

Personally I do not subscribe to this ECO model Sure I can understand faith in brand buying (eg Dyson Vacuum, fan and hairdryer now) and equally across apple products or any other. however I simple find it hard to understand that within the Apple ECO there is little or no natural progression and if anything deliberate stinting of feature to encourage multiple device buying.

Sure there is some sharing of data and features via external common resource areas. It not like you can give your Granny or 7 year old an Ipad and after a year they can use a MBP. The argument of providing an optimal experience on each device is equally a downfall IMO.

I find it hard to understand why ones choice is totally persuaded by the fact you can answer your phone on your laptop which seems a common reply here on MR let alone apps and software are not compatible across devices.

I agree Apple tend to make these little niceties a bit simpler to use and others have some catching up to do but in essence they exist elsewhere outside a few unique apps and across all platforms, if you wish.

I agree the mass trend for thinner lighter is there and goes back many years from the 1st TV's and radio's its nothing new but given that Apple market is small with a limited number of device options and is now trimmed or focused even more on a central group is probably a hard pill to swallow for those higher end loyal "Pro" users that were once catered for and priced out for the aspiring wannabe Apple owners

 

[thesaint024]

Sure a little cynical

I'm happy to accept your opinion that's there is large/main group of Mac buyers that progress from IOS to OSX in the absence that none of us have any real documented evidence we can only express opinions and views which is fine for general discussions

I did not leave this group out but asked who the MBP was aimed at and thanks for highlighting another group

Personally I do not subscribe to this ECO model Sure I can understand faith in brand buying (eg Dyson Vacuum, fan and hairdryer now) and equally across apple products or any other. however I simple find it hard to understand that within the Apple ECO there is little or no natural progression and if anything deliberate stinting of feature to encourage multiple device buying.

Sure there is some sharing of data and features via external common resource areas. It not like you can give your Granny or 7 year old an Ipad and after a year they can use a MBP. The argument of providing an optimal experience on each device is equally a downfall IMO.

I find it hard to understand why ones choice is totally persuaded by the fact you can answer your phone on your laptop which seems a common reply here on MR let alone apps and software are not compatible across devices.

I agree Apple tend to make these little niceties a bit simpler to use and others have some catching up to do but in essence they exist elsewhere outside a few unique apps and across all platforms, if you wish.

I agree the mass trend for thinner lighter is there and goes back many years from the 1st TV's and radio's its nothing new but given that Apple market is small with a limited number of device options and is now trimmed or focused even more on a central group is probably a hard pill to swallow for those higher end loyal "Pro" users that were once catered for and priced out for the aspiring wannabe Apple owners

I don't believe the majority of users are iOS converts, only suggesting that this is an ongoing strategy of Apple's. They are leveraging the large base iOS users they have, and in many ways, they are making Macs almost as a supporting role for these people. I can't say if it's the right strategy, but it's a reasonable one to leverage their strengths.

I believe that most Mac owners are legacy Mac owners. But the steady growth in market share in MacOS coincides with the popularity of iOS as more people are introduced to the ecosystem. I remember the past when Mac users were fringe computer users and hardcore fans, like many here. Apple is in a different place now with larger responsibilities to shareholders now. But I don't think they've completely sold out because they still do things their way, by upsetting the status quo.

It is too bad that they are leaving behind some loyalists who have more specialized needs. I can see why people are less than thrilled, but it really is smart business. The new MBP is a jarring departure from the past iterations from a port perspective. I do think many will come around as they start to see the short term tradeoffs may be worth it. I can't speak to everyone's "power" needs though. We all use these differently, so maybe you all do need more ram/cpu/gpu, if that is your beef with the new MBP's.

I'm just one data point, but I was one who wanted to come back to Mac for the promised integration with iOS. I'm enjoying some of the benefits already, and it has made my workflow a little more convenient. When PC's and Macs have become so close in user experience for productivity users like myself, it's the little things like this that tip the scales. I personally like Win 10. I've liked Windows since 8.0 actually. Yes, the one that even Windows diehards hated. I liked the fact that MS was being visionary and making a bold choice. Unfortunately, they didn't have the captive audience like Apple to pull it off. I will probably always have a Windows PC. But for day to day work, I want a Mac for that integration more than anything else, aside from it being the nicest, well built computer on the market.

 

[apolloa]

You have the wrong end of things, I though he was overly biased against the MBP, was was throwing titles at that many stated were poorly optimised, giving the impression of poor performance.

Q-6
[doublepost=1481464720][/doublepost]

That`s really it, if gaming is the priority MBP is not the best notebook to choose from.

Q-6

No he wasn't, he showed the games he played and that's hardly being biased! I see you conveniently missed out the part where he compared Final Cut on the two machines and showed how the 2016 new MacBook Pro is actually slower then the 2015 MadBook Pro, one of the most optimised apps for Apple computers, or was he some how biased with that too?

 

[Queen6]

No he wasn't, he showed the games he played and that's hardly being biased! I see you conveniently missed out the part where he compared Final Cut on the two machines and showed how the 2016 new MacBook Pro is actually slower then the 2015 MadBook Pro, one of the most optimised apps for Apple computers, or was he some how biased with that too?

Maybe you should read a few more of my posts and you will quickly see what I think of the new MBP, you really have the wrong end of it. go look at #353 for starters...

Q-6