Why I'm switching to PC after 17 years of being on a Mac

[MH01]

We haven't lost ports. For me, I have gained 4 USB ports instead of 2 I used to have. As well as two more TB ports. And three more display ports. With just a few new cables, I can now keep my external WD drive plugged in while I'm using my Wacom Intuos Pro, my Wacom Remote and still have a port to hook up my iPad Pro to charge it and use it for Astropad. They didn't remove the ports for the sake of 3mm, they could've kept these ports and made the computer thinner (as evidenced by certain Windows laptops). In fact, they didn't remove anything - they REPLACED the ports.

We've been over this numerous times - ergo the going in circles remark. You keep saying we've lost something because of the reduction of thickness, I say we gained something in addition to reduction of thickness.

As for the battery, for me it's pretty much the same as it was on the old MBP, but ok, I admit I was hoping for something better. Still, I don't see a drastic difference AND we get a lighter computer. It's something I can live with.


Honestly, I have to ask you - are you even using a new MBP? Speaking from experience? Or are you reading "numerous professional reviews" that are nothing more but clickbait that follows almost every Apple launch?

To be honest i have a 2015 2.8 1TB model and 2016 2.7 512 460 model in front of me and testing both to decide what to keep and I cannot agree with your assessment . 2016 is not faster , we have Lost ports, and the 2015 has better battery life by a margin unless you are using both for lite CPU duties.

Screen , keyboard , Touch ID, weight , heat management superior to 2016 (wins)

So the question to you, do you have a comparable 2015 you are comparing it to? Sounds a bit like you love the new machine and it does not matter how the 2015 compares.

Honestly the 2016 is not superior to the 2015 in many ways....it's pros / cons.

Remember the 2015 has 2xTB

 

[christophermdia]

I think there is plenty optimizing to happen yet ... last year I bought a surfac pro 3 for my work computer as I needed a PC for those purposes ... i was quite excited to have iPad / PC functionality in one, and I will say, it's been the worst experience ever. The little things ... I can sit in a corner, with my mac, no iPhone for calls , no iPad, and can txt, WhatsApp, run android thru bluestacks, and finally run Windows thru parallels and/or virtualization (and do these things well). These things all contribute to the price AND contribute to the battery life. I think battery will be fixed before too long, but value far exceeds performance vs. competing products.

 

[Queen6]

That's not what I've been reading. The SSD is crazy fast, no argument, but the CPU is slower, I've seen enough reviews that state normal work takes longer. The GPU seems decent, no fast, but decent.

As for the battery, that's just down right sad. The display is brighter (and thus taking more power), and the TouchBar is always processing in the background, yet Apple reduced the size of the battery. I don't know about you, but I can be away from a power outlet for hours on end. I want something that will last all day.

It`s now well & truly out there black & white and for all to see. When I need my "portable" computing solution to run off mains, I want a minimum number, notebooks dying in the middle of a meeting or presentation or in the field on an engineering job are not top of my wish list.

Personally I opted for Microsoft`s Surface book for it`s extensive battery runtime, 2 in 1 design, ports & being a premium product; fit & finish etc. I took near on a year to make the decision to switch. As Apple is moving ever closer to the middle ground and a broader consumer based audience. Touch Bar; to my gut feeling it`s a gimmick, it may well improve, however it`s now a 3rd point of focus for the user to deal with, which is somewhat counter intuitive, with a touch screen making more sense, especially in a 2 in 1 format, where Pen & Touch input really shines, and it will only get better.

Q-6

 

[leman]

Just plain wrong, vast majority of engineers & scientists I have and remain to work with are on the Windows platform, your bias to towards Apple is starting verge on the ridiculous...

Yeah, and many people write scientific papers wth Office when they really should be using LaTeX and do versioning by saving 'draft1', 'draft2' etc. where they should be using a version control system and spend hours using different variants of 'Find" GUI where they could accomplish their tasks in seconds by using a regex. Some people need specific software that only exists on Windows, some people were trained only with Windows use (this is very discipline-dependent) and some people simply don't know that alternatives exists.

And yet, there are many reasons that make Windows a very very poor choice of OS for scientists and the like compared to Unix platforms. One needs to work with plethora of different tools, using different data formats and shuffling things from one format into another one. This is where UNIX shines, because not only it has access to myriads of little useful utilities but also allows you to combine them in complex ways. The strengths of Windows is in third-party software, the OS itself only offers bare-bone features. Sure, this started to change recently, and Windows 10 indeed attempts to integrate some useful services (PDF support, woo, only took them 20+ years ), but frankly, not much has changed since the XP days. Its still a collection of isolated applications that don't really play together.

Some of the features of OS X that make it much more suitable for workflows that need adaptability and flexibility are:

- UNIX system (access to powerful tools and workflows)
- strong integration of GUI and command line
- virtually all operations can be done without using the GUI
- Scriptable
- QuickLook
- ease of maintainability

And of course there are tons of other things which simply make one's like easier, like a very nice backup tool, clear system settings UI (Windows 10 is still an unholy amalgamation of Windows 95 menus and Metro-style menus, which makes setting it up a very infuriating enterprise), the ability to look up your IP with a single click, readable local URI's via Bonjour, AirDrop etc. etc. etc.

 

[MH01]

Yeah, and many people write scientific papers wth Office when they really should be using LaTeX and do versioning by saving 'draft1', 'draft2' etc. where they should be using a version control system and spend hours using different variants of 'Find" GUI where they could accomplish their tasks in seconds by using a regex. Some people need specific software that only exists on Windows, some people were trained only with Windows use (this is very discipline-dependent) and some people simply don't know that alternatives exists.

And yet, there are many reasons that make Windows a very very poor choice of OS for scientists and the like compared to Unix platforms. One needs to work with plethora of different tools, using different data formats and shuffling things from one format into another one. This is where UNIX shines, because not only it has access to myriads of little useful utilities but also allows you to combine them in complex ways. The strengths of Windows is in third-party software, the OS itself only offers bare-bone features. Sure, this started to change recently, and Windows 10 indeed attempts to integrate some useful services (PDF support, woo, only took them 20+ years ), but frankly, not much has changed since the XP days. Its still a collection of isolated applications that don't really play together.

Some of the features of OS X that make it much more suitable for workflows that need adaptability and flexibility are:

- UNIX system (access to powerful tools and workflows)
- strong integration of GUI and command line
- virtually all operations can be done without using the GUI
- Scriptable
- QuickLook
- ease of maintainability

And of course there are tons of other things which simply make one's like easier, like a very nice backup tool, clear system settings UI (Windows 10 is still an unholy amalgamation of Windows 95 menus and Metro-style menus, which makes setting it up a very infuriating enterprise), the ability to look up your IP with a single click, readable local URI's via Bonjour, AirDrop etc. etc. etc.

in specialised fields like science etc it's the software they use that determines the hardware , most is written on windows , so using a mac while technically better is a not an option .

And if we are talking scientific research, if you have ever tried funding projects, spending unnecessary money on computers is silly , frankly macs are too expansive .

I know many scientist that will use macs as their personal devices , but not institutions .

 

[kinster]

And Nokia's core business used to be paper. But I'm sure they moved into something else. Hmm, what was it now...

Maybe, just maybe, Microsoft might choose to change the direction of its core business.

Don't think so. Why would they want to do something that is still successful for them to this day?

 

[MH01]

Great choice on the Skull Canyon NUC this and the Surface Book are products I once imagined Apple would bring to market, before it became a fashion house for the concerning tech consumer...

Q-6

Eyeing one off with a pair of Samsung 960s which will make the new MacBook Pro SSD speeds looks slow

stick in a razer core or any egpu and this little box crushes the current mac line up, with just the iMac and Mac Pro beating it with cpu performance .

 

[bjet767]

I understand the need for an underlying Unix base for some, equally I object to individuals portraying gross inaccuracy. In my own industry Windows is dominant, nor is this a bias on my behalf; geologists, physicists, geophysicists, material scientists etc.

In my experience this is true.

I find most servers are Unix based (a lot of Apache) and the company issued laptops and desktops agree Windows. It also seems adoption of new Windows version at least a year behind general public.

 

[leman]

in specialised fields like science etc it's the software they use that determines the hardware , most is written on windows , so using a mac while technically better is a not an option .

Yes, if one is unlucky enough to be locked to a specific platform because of the software. Its not that common though.

And if we are talking scientific research, if you have ever tried funding projects, spending unnecessary money on computers is silly , frankly macs are too expansive .

Its actually the other way around. Hardware is cheaper than salaries/service. This is for example a reason why my entire university is using Mac Minis in lecture halls — the service/maintenance ends up saving tons of money.

 

[Donoban]

Yep–it's because of the latest MBP.


Apple, I loved you and your products. I really did. For years you were awesome. But now you just aren't making the products that people want anymore and charging way too much for the products you are making.

See ya.

Bye Bye champ! We'll be waiting for you when you decide to come back.

 

[Mildredop]

Don't think so. Why would they want to do something that is still successful for them to this day?

I was just speculating. They're moving into hardware which I don't believe they've done before, so I was wondering if they might continue in that direction.

Someone here wrote that Windows 10 is good when it's on a machine that can run it properly. MS taking control of hardware would allow them to ensure the experience for the end user is as good as possible.

 

[MacBH928]

If anyone looking to switch like OP, there is this one tech guy on YouTube who opted to switch to Lenovo Yoga 910. Look it up

 

[MH01]

Yes, if one is unlucky enough to be locked to a specific platform because of the software. Its not that common though.



Its actually the other way around. Hardware is cheaper than salaries/service. This is for example a reason why my entire university is using Mac Minis in lecture halls — the service/maintenance ends up saving tons of money.

We maybe talking different things, are you a student or a researcher ? I work in scientific publishing so deal with researchers, so my experience will be very different to that of an undergraduate

 

[leman]

We maybe talking different things, are you a student or a researcher ? I work in scientific publishing so deal with researchers, so my experience will be very different to that of an undergraduate

I am a researcher and I also run the IT department.

 

[MH01]

I am a researcher and I also run the IT department.

Okay, that explains your experience . So in your position you are able to influence the hardware in you department , budgets stretch that far?

 

[leman]

Okay, that explains your experience . So in your position you are able to influence the hardware in you department , budgets stretch that far?

Exactly. And it is a fact that Windows computers cost us more in the end — they require more effort to support and generally cause more problems. But what also plays a role here is that we have a very competent Apple reseller who also offers great service, so these guys take care of repair if needed.

 

[aevan]

Eyeing one off with a pair of Samsung 960s which will make the new MacBook Pro SSD speeds looks slow

stick in a razer core or any egpu and this little box crushes the current mac line up, with just the iMac and Mac Pro beating it with cpu performance .

As Anandtech clearly explains, 960 speeds are theoretical and will be less in actual products. I would bet you that not only will the new laptops with 960s not outperform MacBook Pro SSDs, in fact, they will most likely be slower. Because making them as fast would cost money, and PC manufacturers cut costs.

 

[macbookpro-file]

Me personally, my fingers hurt after using the Keyboard for more than an hour. Becuase of the keytravel of 0.55mm. I am 27 years old and did not have any of those issues. With the new MacBook Pro, i do. I do not hit the keyboard hard by the way.

Man that's a shame. I've always been more of a PC user than Mac, but one thing I love about my good old macbook pro 2007 core2duo is the keyboard keys. For years my argument for Apple products has been attention to detail. Such as that fantastic laptop keyboard where I seem to never make typos, as well as the smooth trackpad.

I was lots into music production for the last decade, and this is where the new Macbooks kept falling short year after year. Lack of good cooling to push hardware to max, lack of USB, and although it's ok they dropped logic, it really is a great piece of software even to this day.

However, affordable, or good bang for your dollar is never how I've described apple computers.. 2k is generally entry level for an intermediate model

 

[aevan]

I'm getting out of this discussion. It's pointless. Believe what you will - that new MBPs are underpowered, that the new ports are bad and that Windows offers better productivity and experience. Try to console yourself by finding clickbait videos on YT where people criticize MBP, ignoring those reviews that clearly show it's faster, better built with a better keyboard, trackpad and a better screen.

History repeats itself. The same comments were posted for every major Mac release in the last decade. This is not the first time someone yelled "not a pro machine" or "too expensive" or "you can get a faster PC for less money". This repeats every time, and the arguments stay the same.

Yet people - pros, prosumers, common users - still buy Apple. No, they are not leaving Apple as a lot of you would like to believe based on anecdotal evidence, in fact, quite the oposite. Because outside the realm of benchmarks and forum posts and angry YouTube clickbait rants, ordinary users, professional or not, care about the overall experience, the way things work in unison, the design of the product (and I don't mean just aesthetic design, but functional design, design in the best sense of the word).

When you do your work, your Mac is not only a part of that work, it's here to offer a hand. Not to obstruct you, not to bother you, not to make the experience worse. They are here to make the long journey shorter. To enable and enhance. Enjoy running benchmarks on your Windows PCs.

Everyone else, enjoy your Macs and keep thinking different.

 

[BenTrovato]

It's easy to sit there and criticize the laptop at the top of the pile. The 2016 MBP is the best laptop I've ever owned. Yes I'm still contemplating returning it because the price tag is insane and I'm not 100% happy with the screen. All the other gripes people have, I understand, but I just don't have them. I've been shopping for PC's but for the $1000 I'll save to have a less pleasing shell and go back to Windows, I haven't been able to make that call yet. The user experience is far better on a Mac but the price is hard to swallow. I'm pretty much waiting for the holiday period to expire and be forced to keep this laptop.

 

[Queen6]

Yeah, and many people write scientific papers wth Office when they really should be using LaTeX and do versioning by saving 'draft1', 'draft2' etc. where they should be using a version control system and spend hours using different variants of 'Find" GUI where they could accomplish their tasks in seconds by using a regex. Some people need specific software that only exists on Windows, some people were trained only with Windows use (this is very discipline-dependent) and some people simply don't know that alternatives exists.

And yet, there are many reasons that make Windows a very very poor choice of OS for scientists and the like compared to Unix platforms. One needs to work with plethora of different tools, using different data formats and shuffling things from one format into another one. This is where UNIX shines, because not only it has access to myriads of little useful utilities but also allows you to combine them in complex ways. The strengths of Windows is in third-party software, the OS itself only offers bare-bone features. Sure, this started to change recently, and Windows 10 indeed attempts to integrate some useful services (PDF support, woo, only took them 20+ years ), but frankly, not much has changed since the XP days. Its still a collection of isolated applications that don't really play together.

Some of the features of OS X that make it much more suitable for workflows that need adaptability and flexibility are:

- UNIX system (access to powerful tools and workflows)
- strong integration of GUI and command line
- virtually all operations can be done without using the GUI
- Scriptable
- QuickLook
- ease of maintainability

And of course there are tons of other things which simply make one's like easier, like a very nice backup tool, clear system settings UI (Windows 10 is still an unholy amalgamation of Windows 95 menus and Metro-style menus, which makes setting it up a very infuriating enterprise), the ability to look up your IP with a single click, readable local URI's via Bonjour, AirDrop etc. etc. etc.

Clearly your experiences are very different. Variants of LATex are available on the Windows platform, as you stated some simply don't know alternatives exist. For every instance you quote one can find an equivalent, as one would naturally expect from a mature OS.

Personally I am an engineer, I work comfortably in both major OS environments. It`s obvious you love all Apple, equally that by default does not make everything else tech related inferior. In this case it simply illustrates your lesser knowledge and or experience with a differing OS. Right now neither is great, however people will choose when possible which one works for them best. Keep going all your achieving is to show your lack of knowledge with Windows 10, a wiser man would simply state they simply don't like Windows 10, as opposed to trying to rubbish something the don't fully understand.

Q-6

 

[ntnskrds]

Clearly your experiences are very different. Variants of LATex are available on the Windows platform, as you stated some simply don't know alternatives exist. For every instance you quote one can find an equivalent, as one would naturally expect from a mature OS.

Personally I am an engineer, I work comfortably in both major OS environments. It`s obvious you love all Apple, equally that by default does not make everything else tech related inferior. In tis case it simply illustrates your lesser knowledge and or experience with a differing OS. Right now neither is great, however people will choose when possible which one works for them best. Keep going all your achieving is to show your lack of knowledge with Windows 10, a wiser man would simply state they simply don't like Windows 10, as opposed to trying to rubbish something the don't fully understand.

Q-6

Agreed !!. Windows 10 is a clear advancement for Microsoft and it rights many wrongs.. It may not be as pleasing to use as macOS (I think this may be Steve's greatest heritage) but I can certainly get a lot of work done with it ( I couldn't on windows 8 though

 

[leman]

Clearly your experiences are very different. Variants of LATex are available on the Windows platform, as you stated some simply don't know alternatives exist. For every instance you quote one can find an equivalent, as one would naturally expect from a mature OS.

Did I ever claim that LaTeX and friends are not available on Windows? I am simply saying that it takes much less effort to wire different things together on OS X (or Linux), due to them being Unix platforms. Yes, I can instal Cygwin on Windows or use the recent Ubuntu subsystem on Win10, but then I am already leaving the realm of Windows.

Keep going all your achieving is to show your lack of knowledge with Windows 10, a wiser man would simply state they simply don't like Windows 10, as opposed to trying to rubbish something the don't fully understand.

I have over 20 years experience in administering Windows and developing software for it. It was my primary platform for more then a decade. I am sure that I understand it quite well.

 

[Queen6]

Eyeing one off with a pair of Samsung 960s which will make the new MacBook Pro SSD speeds looks slow

stick in a razer core or any egpu and this little box crushes the current mac line up, with just the iMac and Mac Pro beating it with cpu performance .

Considered picking one up, however I really need notebook solutions, certainly eGPU is a smart path to high levels GPU performance. Best consideration is that it would extend the usefulness of the CPU by several years. Hopefully the eGPU market will grow as Razer`s Core is still rather overpriced.

Q-6
[doublepost=1481381894][/doublepost]

I'm getting out of this discussion. It's pointless. Believe what you will - that new MBPs are underpowered, that the new ports are bad and that Windows offers better productivity and experience. Try to console yourself by finding clickbait videos on YT where people criticize MBP, ignoring those reviews that clearly show it's faster, better built with a better keyboard, trackpad and a better screen.

History repeats itself. The same comments were posted for every major Mac release in the last decade. This is not the first time someone yelled "not a pro machine" or "too expensive" or "you can get a faster PC for less money". This repeats every time, and the arguments stay the same.

Yet people - pros, prosumers, common users - still buy Apple. No, they are not leaving Apple as a lot of you would like to believe based on anecdotal evidence, in fact, quite the oposite. Because outside the realm of benchmarks and forum posts and angry YouTube clickbait rants, ordinary users, professional or not, care about the overall experience, the way things work in unison, the design of the product (and I don't mean just aesthetic design, but functional design, design in the best sense of the word).

When you do your work, your Mac is not only a part of that work, it's here to offer a hand. Not to obstruct you, not to bother you, not to make the experience worse. They are here to make the long journey shorter. To enable and enhance. Enjoy running benchmarks on your Windows PCs.

Everyone else, enjoy your Macs and keep thinking different.

Pretty much typifies your posts, as you seem incapable of visualising the other side of the coin. Like I said what works for you by default does not work for all, and that you are hung up on...

Q-6
[doublepost=1481382705][/doublepost]

Agreed !!. Windows 10 is a clear advancement for Microsoft and it rights many wrongs.. It may not be as pleasing to use as macOS (I think this may be Steve's greatest heritage) but I can certainly get a lot of work done with it ( I couldn't on windows 8 though

What I see is that Microsoft hit a low, changed gear with management, moving on to a more positive future. Was a time when OS X was leagues ahead of Windows, not so much the case today with both the desktop OD`s being very close. Part is that Apple`s focus of recent has not been productivity based, so although OS X has advanced it doe not offer much over it`s predecessors.

As ever much is related to ones usage & workflow, with one eking out the advantage versus it`s negative aspects, which both OS have.

The underpinnings of W8 were pretty solid and a big improvement, however the UI and more importantly the UX was literally shattering to many, including myself. Fine on smaller touch enabled devices, infuriating on large non touch notebooks and desktops. Definitely a case of too much too soon and not knowing how to package it, net result a mess.

Q-6

 

[kinster]

I was just speculating. They're moving into hardware which I don't believe they've done before, so I was wondering if they might continue in that direction.

Someone here wrote that Windows 10 is good when it's on a machine that can run it properly. MS taking control of hardware would allow them to ensure the experience for the end user is as good as possible.

Yes you can speculate but Microsoft won't do it. Today's hardware architecture is based on the IBM PC + Compatibles standard architecture which are all "off-the-shelf" components. Which piece of "hardware" will enhance the user experience?