Why I'm switching to PC after 17 years of being on a Mac

[FelicityW]

Apple, I loved you and your products. I really did. For years you were awesome. But now you just aren't making the products that people want anymore and charging way too much for the products you are making.

See ya.

I think you are just the front edge of a trend that will continue. Everything Steve Jobs was involved in is done, so the things coming out of Cupertino now never went through the SJ filter. The only reason I would have trouble shifting is that I really don't care for Windows. I am riding a 2013 13" rMBP connected to a Cinema display, and after years of watching the announcements live and lusting after each new Apple release, now I read the synopsis and say thank you for not having anything I have to have. I traveled backwards from an iPhone 6+ to 6S to SE. I waited to replace my 13" MBP until 16GB RAM was available (my reason to buy) and since then, I don't have a reason to buy up. I have an original Watch and there is no compelling reason to buy up (I don't swim much and don't get lost much). I do like the new 5K display (and reasonable pre-release price point) but don't think my rMBP can drive it so... Waiting for an iPad Mini Pro. Lucky for Apple, I have a kid with an iPhone 7 plus, iPad Pro 9.7, and a Series 2 watch (he swims and uses all the features). He also has an older MBA he seldom uses, and since he isn't pushing the limits of it, that hasn't been upgraded.

Another example: I thought about buying a new Apple mouse (they are so un-ergonomic, I use Logitech mice exclusively) and when I read the reviews for v.2 on the Apple Store website, I though ai yi! What is Apple doing?

Sadly, Apple now sounds arrogant and defensive when asked about product line features; they used to sound advanced and knowledgeable. A company cannot stay on top forever, and while I still believe they are innovators, humility goes a long way in staying relevant.

 

[Mildredop]

Yes you can speculate but Microsoft won't do it. Today's hardware architecture is based on the IBM PC + Compatibles standard architecture which are all "off-the-shelf" components. Which piece of "hardware" will enhance the user experience?

I'm really not that interested to get into a protracted argument. I get that you say it'll never happen.

 

[apolloa]

Not entirely sure that this reviewer is unbiased, equally many are and have clearly illustrated performance and battery runtimes. The other aspect is once you then compare the MBP to the full PC, they remain to be nice notebooks, however you must need to be willing to trade off for the portability. Example; VR is now rally becoming far more interesting, yet we as Mac owners/users are out of the game by default.

To me computers should advance in performance, not take retrograde steps. Personally I wanted to see the MBP advance to be a powerful desktop replacement not an Air on steroids. Yes Apple have got the 2nd best mobile CPU, however the dGPU will be rapidly overtaken by budget PC OEM`s, let alone the premium offerings.

I get people are excited about their new Mac, equally they should not expect everyone to fawn over hardware that does to make sense for their use case and or measurement of value.

Q-6

So a guy with a Mac Pro and a MacBook Pro who presents a review you don't agree with is biased?

Anyway I actually had a play with one today for the first time and it's nice, very solid and very fluid, the touch bar surprised me and was actually useful, bigger then I thought it would be too. Seemed fast enough but you can't really push a computer in a store. Still I walked away impressed, lovely screen too. A bit slow in rebooting mind?

 

[MH01]

As Anandtech clearly explains, 960 speeds are theoretical and will be less in actual products. I would bet you that not only will the new laptops with 960s not outperform MacBook Pro SSDs, in fact, they will most likely be slower. Because making them as fast would cost money, and PC manufacturers cut costs.

what do you think is inside the macbooks pros?. Apple does not make thier own SSDs......Though come on ,the Macbook pro SSDs are fantastic and you are going to talk down the 960.....you are really pushing the new MacBook pro is the best thing since slice bread to far in my opinion.

 

[SteveJUAE]

in specialised fields like science etc it's the software they use that determines the hardware , most is written on windows , so using a mac while technically better is a not an option .

And if we are talking scientific research, if you have ever tried funding projects, spending unnecessary money on computers is silly , frankly macs are too expansive .

I know many scientist that will use macs as their personal devices , but not institutions .

This is so spot on

My eldest son who is a lecture at a prestigious science/engineering university in UK who runs many research grants is exactly constrained as you note yet uses his rMB for personal use.

I blame myself for buying him too many apple products over the years LOL

My middle son who has entered the world of engineering and is in a specific development division of virtual construction has dumped MAC's as he has found they are a square peg in a round hole IRL workflows although he still uses an IPhone for personal use

For myself I see no appreciable increase in build quality (not that it's been lacking before) reliability or serviceability with the new MBP if anything I would say for most consumers that may well stretch their budgets to buy the latest MAC's are exposed to greater risks of costs during the devices lifespan.

The burden placed on consumers of the new MBP's has never been greater IMO to opt for extended warranties and add-ons (cables/dongles etc) with even less upgradeability Too me the so called long term appeal that many perceived of MAC's to justify the initial higher outlay has diminished greatly

 

[Count Blah]

Don't get OP. You like macOS etc, but you don't like the 2016 MBP. Just buy the 2015 MBP and be happy? Guess what, the touch bar is not gonna be premium price in a year or two.

Sure it will. It's an iWatch built into the computer. You think Apple is going to let that go for free? Bwahaahahahaa.

The real question is how Apple is going to screw over people who want an iMac, Mac Pro and Mac mini, and force the touch bar onto them.

 

[itsamacthing]

Windows 10 is a lot smoother than Mac OS, the animations are crisp unlike even the top end Macs which still suffer from UI lag.

Mac OS has always had UI lag, even on the most powerful Macs. Windows wins there all day long.

 

[PhoneI]

If anyone looking to switch like OP, there is this one tech guy on YouTube who opted to switch to Lenovo Yoga 910. Look it up

The black bezel at the bottom of the screen absolutely ruins this device. Its probably still the best Windows laptop out there, but in my opinion, thats not saying too much.

 

[born2runak]

Im just throwing my two cents in here, and no I have not read every single post in this thread. I consider myself an "average" user with no real "pro" needs. Internet browsing, media consumption, email, word processing, photo and video storage and editing, and the occasional light game.
My first (and so far only Mac computer) is my Mid 2009 Macbook Pro 15in 2.66ghz Intel Core 2 duo that I bought refurbished from Apple for $1200. I bought it towards the end of 2009. Prior to that, I owned a few desktop windows based machines and one Acer Laptop. I bought my first iPhone in 2008 and absolutely loved it which ultimately drove me to buying a Mac. My windows based machines never seemed to last as long as i would like and always required way too much upkeep and caused too many headaches. So I bought my macbook and absolutely fell in love with it. The only thing I have ever done to it was initially swapping out the 250 gb drive for a 500 which I recently had to replace when it died earlier this year, and increased the ram to 8GB last year in an effort to speed things up a bit. Other than that, the computer has been great and I told myself I would never buy a windows based PC again. I mean, my 1200 dollar mac is still going strong 7 years later. But it is beginning to show its age and so I have been considering a new one. The dilemma is the current state of computer technology. I prefer a laptop as I like to use when and where I see fit, whether it is on the couch watching family guy, or taking it on vacation with me. New laptops are getting to be great (2016 MacBooks) because the portability is better than ever. But we are now in an age of "what you buy is what you get" , meaning upgrading components is basically no longer an option unless you want to sacrifice the probability factor. Fair enough. But I don't see how anyone can make do with 256 gb on a computer. So 512 is a minimum (Yes an external drive is an option but that starts to effect the issue of probability and ease of use. So prices are way up, and comes bundled with configurations that I don't necessarily need. I want a 15 inch because it is my main computer and don't want to compromise for a smaller screen . So I have gone from a 1200$ product that was worth every penny , no doubt, to a brand new that it going to at least run 2400$. So I have considered windows base machine (shudder). Well i stopped at the MS store to play with a surface book pro (that thing is pretty cool , you have to admit) and playing with it , it was buggy, crashing hell and was immediately reminded why I hated them in the first place. So the harsh reality is buying a POS cheap device which probably will need replacement in two years, or shell out a small fortune.

Sorry for the long ranting post

 

[Queen6]

So a guy with a Mac Pro and a MacBook Pro who presents a review you don't agree with is biased?

Anyway I actually had a play with one today for the first time and it's nice, very solid and very fluid, the touch bar surprised me and was actually useful, bigger then I thought it would be too. Seemed fast enough but you can't really push a computer in a store. Still I walked away impressed, lovely screen too. A bit slow in rebooting mind?

Think he did a review on gaming with the 2016 15" MBP however it did seem biased as the games would challenge a gaming machine. as the MBP is not designed with gaming in mind.

They are really nice notebooks, just vastly overpriced for the value they currently represent, admittedly Apple`s always been that way just more so this year.

Q-6

 

[Egally08]

Well i stopped at the MS store to play with a surface book pro (that thing is pretty cool , you have to admit) and playing with it , it was buggy, crashing hell and was immediately reminded why I hated them in the first place. So the harsh reality is buying a POS cheap device which probably will need replacement in two years, or shell out a small fortune.

There was something majorly wrong if it was crashing and lagging while just fiddling with it in the store. Windows 10 is very stable, and it has grown to become just as solid and smooth as MacOS, for the most part. There's no clear choice anymore, it's just user preference.

I hope you're not referring to the surface book with that last sentence. If so, you clearly didn't look at the price tag. The surface book is every bit as premium as it's apple counterpart, in different ways. The surface has better battery life, better screen, more portable, touchscreen, etc.

I love Apple and Windows (And Samsung) for different reasons. If Apple's new offerings don't appeal to you, do a little more research, and I think you'll find you have more options for quality laptops than you think.

 

[MH01]

This is so spot on

My eldest son who is a lecture at a prestigious science/engineering university in UK who runs many research grants is exactly constrained as you note yet uses his rMB for personal use.

I blame myself for buying him too many apple products over the years LOL

My middle son who has entered the world of engineering and is in a specific development division of virtual construction has dumped MAC's as he has found they are a square peg in a round hole IRL workflows although he still uses an IPhone for personal use

For myself I see no appreciable increase in build quality (not that it's been lacking before) reliability or serviceability with the new MBP if anything I would say for most consumers that may well stretch their budgets to buy the latest MAC's are exposed to greater risks of costs during the devices lifespan.

The burden placed on consumers of the new MBP's has never been greater IMO to opt for extended warranties and add-ons (cables/dongles etc) with even less upgradeability Too me the so called long term appeal that many perceived of MAC's to justify the initial higher outlay has diminished greatly

Thank you, that is an excellent post that sums up the present situation and hence why I have opted for a 2015 model to replace my 2012.

 

[Queen6]

There was something majorly wrong if it was crashing and lagging while just fiddling with it in the store. Windows 10 is very stable, and it has grown to become just as solid and smooth as MacOS, for the most part. There's no clear choice anymore, it's just user preference.

I hope you're not referring to the surface book with that last sentence. If so, you clearly didn't look at the price tag. The surface book is every bit as premium as it's apple counterpart, in different ways. The surface has better battery life, better screen, more portable, touchscreen, etc.

I love Apple and Windows (And Samsung) for different reasons. If Apple's new offerings don't appeal to you, do a little more research, and I think you'll find you have more options for quality laptops than you think.

As an owner of both multiple Mac`(mostly Retina MBP`s) and a Surface Book. Microsoft`s 2 in 1 is every bit as stable as any of my Mac`s with an equal build quality, in some aspects exceeding the 2015 MBP`s. Same as the MBP the Surface Book is not for all being very much a niche product, equally if it meets your need very little else on the market compares; 2 in1, dGPU, Pen & Touch input, superb keyboard, excellent trackpad, phenomenal runtime on battery, dedicated dock & top notch build quality. Same as Apple`s MBP, Surface Book is neither produced or priced cheaply.

Q-6
[doublepost=1481445616][/doublepost]

This is so spot on

My eldest son who is a lecture at a prestigious science/engineering university in UK who runs many research grants is exactly constrained as you note yet uses his rMB for personal use.

I blame myself for buying him too many apple products over the years LOL

My middle son who has entered the world of engineering and is in a specific development division of virtual construction has dumped MAC's as he has found they are a square peg in a round hole IRL workflows although he still uses an IPhone for personal use

For myself I see no appreciable increase in build quality (not that it's been lacking before) reliability or serviceability with the new MBP if anything I would say for most consumers that may well stretch their budgets to buy the latest MAC's are exposed to greater risks of costs during the devices lifespan.

The burden placed on consumers of the new MBP's has never been greater IMO to opt for extended warranties and add-ons (cables/dongles etc) with even less upgradeability Too me the so called long term appeal that many perceived of MAC's to justify the initial higher outlay has diminished greatly

Very well put indeed...

Q-6

 

[MH01]

As an owner of both multiple Mac`(mostly Retina MBP`s) and a Surface Book. Microsoft`s 2 in 1 is every bit as stable as any of my Mac`s with an equal build quality, in some aspects exceeding the 2015 MBP`s. Same as the MBP the Surface Book is not for all being very much a niche product, equally if it meets your need very little else on the market compares; 2 in1, dGPU, Pen & Touch input, superb keyboard, excellent trackpad, phenomenal runtime on battery, dedicated dock & top notch build quality. Same as Apple`s MBP, Surface Book is neither produced or priced cheaply.

Q-6

While not owning surface book, I have to say that as a serial upgrader of my desktop rig, windows 10 has annoyed my in a major way, it's been extremely stable and not given me a reason to rebuild my PC and at the same stage do a few upgrades.....one time it had a major crash and I thought, sweet the self recover will be useless , here I go.....it recovered after 2 reboots..... and using the two OS systems side by side, windows 10 is actually more stable, cause apple is trying to push a major update every 12 months for markerting purposes which results in bugs, things were much better when it was every 2 or so years. Since 2012 I'm running the same OS install.....on a windows box...annoying!! Don't even know where my software to reinstall windows is.... lol

 

[Queen6]

While not owning surface book, I have to say that as a serial upgrader of my desktop rig, windows 10 has annoyed my in a major way, it's been extremely stable and not given me a reason to rebuild my PC and at the same stage do a few upgrades.....one time it had a major crash and I thought, sweet the self recover will be useless , here I go.....it recovered after 2 reboots..... and using the two OS systems side by side, windows 10 is actually more stable, cause apple is trying to push a major update every 12 months for markerting purposes which results in bugs, things were much better when it was every 2 or so years. Since 2012 I'm running the same OS install.....on a windows box...annoying!! Don't even know where my software to reinstall windows is.... lol

Windows 10 is now rock steady, I now have more issue`s under OS X. Very much agree this due to Apple`s approach with marketing overriding quality. Something I never used to see previously;

This is now becoming ever more common as are system wide failures. IMO Apple should revert to the previous 24 month cycle and get back to focusing on quality & productivity not emoji`s. That said Apple wont as 80% good enough for the avg user, and that`s Apple`s target audience, albeit "well heeled" and why I am ever more moving to Microsoft`s solutions.

Q-6

 

[Phoenixx]

And that's why I said a laptop might not be the right computer for him. If you need to plug in more than a couple things... a desktop with a ton of ports is the way to go.

I agree, a desktop with a ton of ports is certainly the way to go, if you have a lot of things you need to plug in. Of course, Apple don't actually MAKE a machine like this. The iMac has a paltry 4 USB ports, which is plain pathetic. It isn't uncommon on Windows computers to have TEN OR MORE USB ports, along with all the other ports you need. And, if your machine doesn't have what you need, you just add it.

 

[macintoshmac]

You spoke the whole post about your view and then in the last phrase you switch to "people". It's your situation. Apple still sells tons of devices to people. There is a huge market for their offers. And it is true, for your described situation, they don't have an offer. Before they did sell a 15" without dgpu and now even the base model has one, that is why you pay more, besides the touch bar and the faster SSD and bigger trackpad and a better screen and the additional touch ID sensor they put into it (yes, I think the price is reasonable. Apple also offers better service than the competition and better build quality, nicer design, an intertwined eco system and last but not least MacOS). That increases the value for many customers, but as it seems not for you.

You probably will be better off with a Windows machine. If you will be better off with Windows as a system, I wish you the flexibility very much.

For that matter, I think a linux based system will give him the best bang for buck.

 

[born2runak]

There was something majorly wrong if it was crashing and lagging while just fiddling with it in the store. Windows 10 is very stable, and it has grown to become just as solid and smooth as MacOS, for the most part. There's no clear choice anymore, it's just user preference.

I hope you're not referring to the surface book with that last sentence. If so, you clearly didn't look at the price tag. The surface book is every bit as premium as it's apple counterpart, in different ways. The surface has better battery life, better screen, more portable, touchscreen, etc.

I love Apple and Windows (And Samsung) for different reasons. If Apple's new offerings don't appeal to you, do a little more research, and I think you'll find you have more options for quality laptops than you think.

I see where the last line would have been confusing. No I wasn't talking about the surface book Pro being a "cheap" product. Im talking more about the budget laptops out there that I honestly don't feel are worth the cheap price. I actually rather like the surface book (though admittedly Im not in the "laptops need to have touchscreen crowd, I hate the idea as all you end up with is a laptop with a smudge screen. ) As far as Win 10, I don't have a lot of time in it. Yes the one at the MS store had apps crashing and some laggy performance, and that could have been due to thousands of people messing with it. I use heavy duty laptop for work still running Windows 7 , and I am not a fan. I do love the Apple ecosystem , which is why my first choice will still be a mac. I feel like Ill have to make a windows machine work for me, rather that just let it work for me.
My main point was geared more towards where the specifically laptop market is going. Soldered components, price gouging, etc ( yes I get new tech is expensive, but current prices are a bit ridiculous and I think they are more in response to people not needing to upgrade frequently anymore, so companies stop making user upgrades and jack up the cost)Now I do have full confidence that a mac product will last me years, Im not so confident saying that with a windows machine.

 

[apolloa]

Think he did a review on gaming with the 2016 15" MBP however it did seem biased as the games would challenge a gaming machine. as the MBP is not designed with gaming in mind.

They are really nice notebooks, just vastly overpriced for the value they currently represent, admittedly Apple`s always been that way just more so this year.

Q-6

Actually he did two gaming videos, and you can't stay that games won't run because it's not designed for it... because it's not designed to play games. Perhaps you should visit the products webpage on Apple.com as I'm pretty sure their is a section on its gaming performance on there!

And it runs the games alright. Certainly playable which is impressive for its size.
It also has more power then a PS4 so or can play games.

 

[johannnn]

Sure it will. It's an iWatch built into the computer. You think Apple is going to let that go for free? Bwahaahahahaa.

The real question is how Apple is going to screw over people who want an iMac, Mac Pro and Mac mini, and force the touch bar onto them.

It's new tech. Just look at the price of the original MBA and then look at the MBA a few years later.

 

[MH01]

Actually he did two gaming videos, and you can't stay that games won't run because it's not designed for it... because it's not designed to play games. Perhaps you should visit the products webpage on Apple.com as I'm pretty sure their is a section on its gaming performance on there!

And it runs the games alright. Certainly playable which is impressive for its size.
It also has more power then a PS4 so or can play games.

Any laptop can run games, the 460 is actually a poor performer for gaming, MacBook pros have always been jack of all trades, this one included. The issue with his reviews were that for $4K it should be a better performer in gaming, my view is that this macbook pro is like any previous ones, just that the price has been hiked, so I guess people have higher expectations.

 

[leman]

Any laptop can run games, the 460 is actually a poor performer for gaming

I don't think this is entirely accurate. The 460 offers the best relative gaming performance on a MBP ever. This is the first time that a MBP can play all contemporary games at reasonable settings and achieve good results. Its certainly a poor card if high-quality gaming is a target, of course. But don't forget that the vast majority of currently sold gaming laptops still come with a 950M/960M, which are slower than the Pro 460. In fact, the Pro 460 is faster than 70% or so of the GPUs on Steam survey (including desktop cards).

The issue with the video discussed in the post you quote is that the reviewer was being a bit dumb. He was using a game (Mafia 3) that even high-end desktop cards were having difficulties with. Given the settings he was running it on, the MBP actually performed quite well.

 

[MacBH928]

The black bezel at the bottom of the screen absolutely ruins this device. Its probably still the best Windows laptop out there, but in my opinion, thats not saying too much.

I used to think like you, hunting for the perfect thing. Now I learned, you have to give up something. In this case, you are giving up on a the aesthetics with the ugly bezel.

 

[Queen6]

Actually he did two gaming videos, and you can't stay that games won't run because it's not designed for it... because it's not designed to play games. Perhaps you should visit the products webpage on Apple.com as I'm pretty sure their is a section on its gaming performance on there!

And it runs the games alright. Certainly playable which is impressive for its size.
It also has more power then a PS4 so or can play games.

You have the wrong end of things, I though he was overly biased against the MBP, was was throwing titles at that many stated were poorly optimised, giving the impression of poor performance.

Q-6
[doublepost=1481464720][/doublepost]

Any laptop can run games, the 460 is actually a poor performer for gaming, MacBook pros have always been jack of all trades, this one included. The issue with his reviews were that for $4K it should be a better performer in gaming, my view is that this macbook pro is like any previous ones, just that the price has been hiked, so I guess people have higher expectations.

That`s really it, if gaming is the priority MBP is not the best notebook to choose from.

Q-6

 

[MH01]

I don't think this is entirely accurate. The 460 offers the best relative gaming performance on a MBP ever. This is the first time that a MBP can play all contemporary games at reasonable settings and achieve good results. Its certainly a poor card if high-quality gaming is a target, of course. But don't forget that the vast majority of currently sold gaming laptops still come with a 950M/960M, which are slower than the Pro 460. In fact, the Pro 460 is faster than 70% or so of the GPUs on Steam survey (including desktop cards).

The issue with the video discussed in the post you quote is that the reviewer was being a bit dumb. He was using a game (Mafia 3) that even high-end desktop cards were having difficulties with. Given the settings he was running it on, the MBP actually performed quite well.

I disagree here, the 460 is inline with what apple has always offered as a discreet card in MacBooks. Each of the MacBooks I have owned has been reasonable at gaming, playing the titles available at the time.

I use relative performance in my opinion cause the 460 is poor versus the nvidia 10xx offerings in PC laptops, the 460 is the best apple could put in for power consumption purposes and max profit to be honest. I still stand by the fact nvidia are producing superior GPU offerings his time round, and the 460 is weak when compared to what you get for similar priced laptops.

I use dollar value in determining the worth of a product and given the pricing this time round, the 460 is weak.

The fact that it's Faster than X percentage on steam survey means very little actually, it's a current machine , so therefore you should not be comparing it to older models, but to what nvidia is offering or even amd in PC laptops.

I believe we will agree to disagree on this topic