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Why is apple sooo greedy?
- Thread starter macenforcer
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The trouble with your line of reasoning is you are assuming that a computer is solely comprised of its hardware components. That's not the case, especially with Apple. With their small market share, it is amazing how they can even produce an OS as good as OS X. That is why they need to charge more for their computers to recoup their R&D costs.
Consider Windows Vista. Why is it you have to pay HUNDREDS more just for Windows Vista Ultimate to set a tag in its registry somewhere to "magically" enable a few options? It makes no sense. The binaries are exactly the same. When you purchase the upgrade you do not get new files downloaded into your computer. What exactly are you paying for?
Same applies with Macs.
I agree apple needs a bigger premium than windows side bcos of smaller market. but only thing is that while windows notebook have dropped in price as component prices came down(RAM/HDD/Proc and just abt everything), Apple has not passed down the same benifits.
Who friggin' cares? Apple is out to make money, it is a business. Apple charges more for hardware because people will pay a higher price for XYZ.
That doesn't make Apple greedy, it makes the company profitable and stable. Your beef is with the price, not the company. If you were better off financially, you probably wouldn't be making such a campaign for Lenovo.
That doesn't make Apple greedy, it makes the company profitable and stable. Your beef is with the price, not the company. If you were better off financially, you probably wouldn't be making such a campaign for Lenovo.
With every update Apple is giving us more and more. With the last update we have gotten a .1ghz increase in speed, a whooping 90GB increase in hard drive space, and the multitouch trackpad.
I still think Macs are very competitively priced, if you spec out a Dell to have similar specs with a Mac you will find that the pricing differences are very small.
For the laptops I still think the integration is worth it, so tired of Windows PCs which starts like 4-5 icons in your taskbar just for wireless and trackpad controls. The Thinkpad however does look very attractive at that price though.
I see a strawman argument when I see it. Please show me how you can build a Macbook PRO for $400.
Meanwhile I will keep enjoying my built in spellchecker
that is not a upgrade by apple. that is bcos component price has gone down. eary 2006 when apple was charging 2.5K for 2ghz core duo, comparative windows laptop costed > 2K. at that time high end laptops had 120GB HDD. Now we are able to buy thinkpad with 2.5ghz core 2 duo < $1000(with 250GB HDD). There is a deal for HP with 2.5ghz and 2GB fully loaded for $900. But apple high end still costs $2500.
Sounds like a very nice laptop and I'm sure you'll be very happy with it. Nothing wrong with my MBP though and OS X is the best!!
I have to question is how many discounts did you apply to this?
Also Thinkpads are good hardware, but I can't stand constant Windows usage anymore!
Also when did Thinkpads NOT come in black?
Can someone remind me why the comparisons are being made to the Macbook Pro? Aside from the .1GHz faster processor it is clear that the 2.4GHz Macbook is a more direct competitor for this lenovo. It uses integrated graphics, like the Macbook and it has a smaller screen (although admittedly slightly larger than the Macbook). So enough of comparing this $1200 to the $2500 Macbook Pro - compare it to the $1400 Macbook (White with 250Gb hard disk BTO).
Thinkpads( T and R) can be configured with NVDIA quadro 140M (with 128MB RAM) for 14" while T61P can be configured with Nvidia Quadro 570M(with 256MB Graphics card). It has customizable option for everything(except different GFX cards which is either x3100 or one of the above cards). Plus the machine like macbook pro is targeted at professionals and hence workstation graphics card,Disk Encryption, Option of Non wide screen etc.
A MacBook is a consumer level laptop for an average user. It's not a business class laptop like a ThinkPad or even a MacBook Pro. Lenovo ThinkPad's, Dell Latitudes, HP business class notebooks, ect are geared towards business professionals, not Susie Cue with her pink MacBook lol. Business class laptops also generally come with better support and longer warranties. 3 year warranties are standard for the Dell and HP business laptops. Lenovo is 1 year standard but it doesn't cost too much to upgrade to 3 years. Apple could learn a thing or two on this front and stop charging so much for their Apple Care support.
Yeah, that's another thing. $350 for an extra 2yrs support? Don't think so apple.
One thing about apple that impresses me is the little extra things they put in their stuff (hardware and software) that most people don't even think about.
For instance, apple puts motion sensors in their laptops to help protect you from damaging your harddrive.
Apple computers are still the only computer I've seen that have a cammera in every computer they make (cept mac mini)(not saying there aren't other computers that I haven't seen). This is really cool because video conferencying doesn't work unless both people have a camera (and have it set up, which is a pretty hard thing for some people)
Also, they were smart enough to stop the feedback loop that hapens between your speakers and the active mic when you are talking to someone. Most other laptops suck at this, and pretty much defeat the purpose of audio or video conferencing. Again, with macs, they work period.
Another cool thing about them is that all macs are realitively quiet and with longer battery life. You have to do a lot of homework with most other laptops. You can't assume this stuff, but with Mac you can.
A huge thing you are paying for with Mac hardware is the apple geniuses at every apple store. Think about it, "when do they make their money?" Whether you use them or not, the cost of their salary is built into your mac.
Apple stuff s more expensive, but its also a better way to go for the average consumer. And I've just recently swthed. I remember how mad I was when apple made such a big deal about the orginal mighty mouse, "First two button apple mouse". Remember how big of a deal i was? I was huge. I'ts like apple thought they invented the two button mouse or something. They do this everytime. WHen blu-ray finally comes to apple products, apple will try to pretend that they "invented" blu-ray or something. Just watch, that's the way Steve is. I greedy irogant bastard, who prides himself about being the best, and brags about never giving a cent to charity Google his bio, its true. He is not a good man. But he's really helped lead the way to having some well thought out computers. To that I say bravo.
For instance, apple puts motion sensors in their laptops to help protect you from damaging your harddrive.
Apple computers are still the only computer I've seen that have a cammera in every computer they make (cept mac mini)(not saying there aren't other computers that I haven't seen). This is really cool because video conferencying doesn't work unless both people have a camera (and have it set up, which is a pretty hard thing for some people)
Also, they were smart enough to stop the feedback loop that hapens between your speakers and the active mic when you are talking to someone. Most other laptops suck at this, and pretty much defeat the purpose of audio or video conferencing. Again, with macs, they work period.
Another cool thing about them is that all macs are realitively quiet and with longer battery life. You have to do a lot of homework with most other laptops. You can't assume this stuff, but with Mac you can.
A huge thing you are paying for with Mac hardware is the apple geniuses at every apple store. Think about it, "when do they make their money?" Whether you use them or not, the cost of their salary is built into your mac.
Apple stuff s more expensive, but its also a better way to go for the average consumer. And I've just recently swthed. I remember how mad I was when apple made such a big deal about the orginal mighty mouse, "First two button apple mouse". Remember how big of a deal i was? I was huge. I'ts like apple thought they invented the two button mouse or something. They do this everytime. WHen blu-ray finally comes to apple products, apple will try to pretend that they "invented" blu-ray or something. Just watch, that's the way Steve is. I greedy irogant bastard, who prides himself about being the best, and brags about never giving a cent to charity Google his bio, its true. He is not a good man. But he's really helped lead the way to having some well thought out computers. To that I say bravo.
The difference is that Apple doesn't outsource their support. That is a major factor when computing what to charge a user to support hardware that is 2+ years old. Look at Dell! Back in 2003, they decoded to offshore their entire commercial support operation to India. (not that offshoring is a bad thing at all, but you have to take in to account the expectations of the customer)
They were basically told by some of their biggest customers (Fortune 100 companies), that they would take their hardware business elsewhere if they had to deal with an hour long scripted phone call before the customer could even get through to someone who could actually help them.
When I started with my company, they gave me a brand new 2.2GHZ thinkpad with 3GB of RAM. I gave it back, and took a two year old MBP. Even though XP may not innitially use more RAM than OS X, it doesn't take long to max out a thinkpad. My 2GB CD MBP ran better than the brand new thinkpad, and my new 2.5GHz 4GB Ram Penryn screams!
You try running a thinkpad with 4 GB of RAM, and XP (with outlook and a browser open) and VMWare, running a VM that includes an entire application stack (like TIBCO), and I will promise you that a MBP with 4 GB of RAM, Entourage, VMWare Fusion, Firefox, and the same VM, will run better and faster. I do it every day!
You may not think your fans are on, but I will hazard to guess that they are running, just at a low speed. all computers get hot, so your "my fans have never once come on" comment is at best a HUGE pile of crap.
Thinkpads were the top of the line when IBM had some kind of control over the build quality. They have really gone downhill since lenovo took over.
As for Apple being greedy, every software/hardware company out there has to keep the best interests of the company in mind. I don't recall ever having the option to get a remote with any of the 5+ thinkpads I have had over the past 10 years. For someone like me, who gives software demonstrations on a daily basis, a remote is well worth the $19 cost Apple charges.
I will climb down off my soapbox, but just to level set here, Lenovo is one of my company's biggest clients. We provide them with the QA testing tool that they use to test their own Supply chain management software.
How bad are they nowadays?
Thinkpads are the only PC laptops that I would consider buying.
here's how i see it:
PC = honda
Mac = BMW
sure, your thinkpad and my MBP are both laptops (just like your honda and my BMW are both cars) but the end user experience is VERY different. you get what you pay for.
dont mean to offend anyone, just my two cents.
PC = honda
Mac = BMW
sure, your thinkpad and my MBP are both laptops (just like your honda and my BMW are both cars) but the end user experience is VERY different. you get what you pay for.
dont mean to offend anyone, just my two cents.
That machine has great specs. But after my 12" PB and new MBP 15" Penryn, I could never go back. I love using these machines and wish I could use them for work (instead of Windows).
My new 15" MBP is very quiet and I've never yet had the fans ramp up (even when doing iMovie and iDVD). Neither would I say it runs hot?
My new 15" MBP is very quiet and I've never yet had the fans ramp up (even when doing iMovie and iDVD). Neither would I say it runs hot?
The OP has a point. When you can buy a Santa Rosa laptop for less than a Mac Mini something is not right.
Wow this thread is um..well..yes.
Apple provide a superior style, image, and software.
You pay for a better brand, everyone knows this. You really don't have to buy it, no one's forcing you. Everyone realizes it's more expensive, but they're prepared to buy it, so what, who cares.
It seems the OP is defending and trying his hardest to justify his purchase. Buyers remorse?
Why did you start this thread if you're so happy with your PC laptop in the first place? I find it an absurd concept to come onto MR and rave about your PC specs.
You really do sound like you're trying to justify your purchase.
P.S Mac OS is copyrighted, it cannot be a monopoly. A single telephonic company would be a monopoly.
Apple provide a superior style, image, and software.
You pay for a better brand, everyone knows this. You really don't have to buy it, no one's forcing you. Everyone realizes it's more expensive, but they're prepared to buy it, so what, who cares.
It seems the OP is defending and trying his hardest to justify his purchase. Buyers remorse?
Why did you start this thread if you're so happy with your PC laptop in the first place? I find it an absurd concept to come onto MR and rave about your PC specs.
You really do sound like you're trying to justify your purchase.
P.S Mac OS is copyrighted, it cannot be a monopoly. A single telephonic company would be a monopoly.
wow, i bought a lenovo notebook a year ago. these ones are far better and the prices are awsome. as some stated (in this sadly deteriorating thread) the screens are not as good as apples (my GF has a t61 and the screen is worse than my 4 year old PB) and the sound is weak. but you pay half the price of a MBP. i would be willing to make that compromise because for me it's all good enough.
what tempts me on the lenovo: price, docking station, robustness, features like battery/HD/DVD drive bay
what will likely keep me with apple: OS X
if microsoft ever gets their act together and makes a halfway good OS I see hard times for apple coming.
what tempts me on the lenovo: price, docking station, robustness, features like battery/HD/DVD drive bay
what will likely keep me with apple: OS X
if microsoft ever gets their act together and makes a halfway good OS I see hard times for apple coming.
Wow. This monkey dude has a huge chip on his shoulder. Coming from a long history on the mac side(I'd say 15 years) I can tell you that the OP has a legit opinion. If you don't stand up and say something, nothing ever changes.
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