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Why is there a Mac truck sized hole in the Apple desktop product line?
- Thread starter kudukudu
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Thats all thats needed with todays tech but I feel Apple is more interested in Pods,Phones and maybe Toaster ovens next.
If a third party were to offer such a product with Mac OSX pre-installed (however legally it would be), would people overlook the shadyness of it and be happy?
Apart from it being illegal and difficult, what do people have against running OSX on pc hardware? I see no problems and as some users have noted it's quite snappy!
Apart from it being illegal and difficult, what do people have against running OSX on pc hardware? I see no problems and as some users have noted it's quite snappy!
Seriously if a company can take the Macbook and turn into a Tablet computer, why can't someone do the same for the MacPro and simply turn the Mac Pro into a Half-Pint version with:
Intel Core 2 Duo Extreme or Lowest version of the upcoming Xeon Chip
2 HDD trays (total of 1TB)
8GB of RAM with one of those RAM trays
Graphics Card: Nvidia 7800GT/Quadro or the upcoming ATI 3800/Fire
ESATA, FW800, 2 FW400, 4 USB Ports
1 slot - Superdrive or Blu-Ray (last I read a long time ago: Apple = Blu-Ray, Microsoft = HD-DVD)
Intel Core 2 Duo Extreme or Lowest version of the upcoming Xeon Chip
2 HDD trays (total of 1TB)
8GB of RAM with one of those RAM trays
Graphics Card: Nvidia 7800GT/Quadro or the upcoming ATI 3800/Fire
ESATA, FW800, 2 FW400, 4 USB Ports
1 slot - Superdrive or Blu-Ray (last I read a long time ago: Apple = Blu-Ray, Microsoft = HD-DVD)
i would say
-upgradable graphics: 1 slot (which would mean 8800 GT as upper limit which would be fine for me.. that is the best price performance point IMHO.. no need for SLI, ultras, GTX, GTS etc. ..)
-2 hard drive slots for 3.5 drives
-1 CPU (i could live with a laptop CPU there)
-4 ram slots
edit: it's not like people can't live with compromises like laptop CPUs etc. nobody with any sense buys those extreme edition CPUs anyway .. most go for the best price performance ratios like the E6750 or the Q6600
the expensive stuff in the mac pro are those xeon processors and the 2 CPU layout motherboard and a little bit the ECC memory..which hardly anybody needs anyway outside a heavy duty server
edit2: for price point it could be easily achieved at 1500-1600 euro point between the mac pro and the mac mini.. even more so if they do away with fancy customizing and simply ship it in one good base configuration: a mac shiping with a geforce 8800gt 512 mb as standard would be attract an aweful lot of attention
Dual-link DVI!!!
Why does Apple imagine that people who want a 30" display also want a behemoth of a production machine or a bloody laptop tethered to their display? This is one of the biggest gaps in their lineup.
Many of us want 30" displays and aren't video production houses. We just want to run Aperture and CS3 and the Mac Pro is just stupid for that. Tethering and untethering your MacBook Pro and having the fans roaring like jet engines when attached because the lid is closed is equally ludicrous.
I am using a Mini on my 30" at the moment, and the 1200x800 resolution is really sort of wretched.
Why does Apple imagine that people who want a 30" display also want a behemoth of a production machine or a bloody laptop tethered to their display? This is one of the biggest gaps in their lineup.
Many of us want 30" displays and aren't video production houses. We just want to run Aperture and CS3 and the Mac Pro is just stupid for that. Tethering and untethering your MacBook Pro and having the fans roaring like jet engines when attached because the lid is closed is equally ludicrous.
I am using a Mini on my 30" at the moment, and the 1200x800 resolution is really sort of wretched.
I believe there are tons of people running OSX on their pc's right now who would just love to have a mac instead of having to deal with all sorts of kext changing to get their system to work properly, but they can't buy anything because it ain't there.
Mac minis are far slower than cheaper pc's, iMacs are also slower than cheaper pc's, and the integrated monitor is a no-no for graphic artists (can't be hardware calibrated properly), while the mac pro is better than a pc for work but it's tons more expensive.
So what happens is people continue to use their hacked osx on pc's while hoping Apple miraculously comes up with a better solution. Geeze....
Mac minis are far slower than cheaper pc's, iMacs are also slower than cheaper pc's, and the integrated monitor is a no-no for graphic artists (can't be hardware calibrated properly), while the mac pro is better than a pc for work but it's tons more expensive.
So what happens is people continue to use their hacked osx on pc's while hoping Apple miraculously comes up with a better solution. Geeze....
Seriously if a company can take the Macbook and turn into a Tablet computer, why can't someone do the same for the MacPro and simply turn the Mac Pro into a Half-Pint version with:
Intel Core 2 Duo Extreme or Lowest version of the upcoming Xeon Chip
2 HDD trays (total of 1TB)
8GB of RAM with one of those RAM trays
Graphics Card: Nvidia 7800GT/Quadro or the upcoming ATI 3800/Fire
ESATA, FW800, 2 FW400, 4 USB Ports
1 slot - Superdrive or Blu-Ray (last I read a long time ago: Apple = Blu-Ray, Microsoft = HD-DVD)
There are a couple of problems - firstly, the Mac Pro logic board isn't really shrinkable and it takes up a lot of the internal space. The second is that the Mac Pro isn't compatible with the desktop Core 2 Duo - although I wonder if it's possible to run it with just one cpu?
I did a quick search and it seems you run up 600 or so just getting the logic board and a riser. http://www.mac-pro.com/s.nl/it.A/id.4701/.f
On top of that you need to get the graphics, the cpu, the ram, hard disk, case, psu, optical drive - you could cut some corners but not much. I'm thinking maybe save 500 to 800, if you build the case yourself and get a standard PC PSU?
hardly surprising that nobody uses xeon as desktop processors outside of CAD workstation and such stuff
Not really. kext changing is really only a one-time thing, and there is quite a bit of info on what types of motherboards work "out of the box". If one is trying to use it on an AMD-equipped machine, well that's another story. The only real drawback to those "alternative" builds is that when Apple posts updates you have to wait to hear if it works or not.
I've read about quite a few people who bought Macs as a result of running a Hackintosh. The go the Hackintosh route because of two reasons: 1) they are tinkerers and enjoy that type of thing and 2) they can "try" before they "buy". Of course that's just a rampant generalization, but I think its true for a lot of people. And of course the third reason being the challenge of it.
Of course I neither endorse nor condone such activity.
However, if Apple were to fill the "hole" in their desktop lineup, it might lead people away from that community.
And yet, despite never-ending predictions of the Mini's demise, despite the willingness of people on internet forums to line up and heap scorn upon the Mini ...
The Mini is still the #4 best selling Apple desktop on Amazon.com as of 20 seconds ago. I simply do not buy the loss-leader argument - Apple would have killed the Mini long ago if they weren't making any money on it.
On top of that, for every person who posts here, or on Appleinsider, or ArsTechnica, about the deficiencies of the Mini, you have to consider the opinion of the people who actually own one.
And I can tell you that we absolutely bl00dy love our Minis.
Cheers!
Jim
Ha! And your someone who has some sort of problem with integrated screens so your opinion is equally invalid!
Still don't understand the problem. Your iMac screen broken? Plug in an external one until it's fixed!
Actually I've not got an axe to grind either way, I just think some people haven't thought through their arguments very well in this thread!
Now we're telling people whether or not they're "qualified" to have an opinion?
Some of you are a little too emotionally attached to a computer. Buy what works for you. If you can't find it, find the next best thing. If you feel more passionately than that, either get a life or start your own company.
Life has many choices.
Some of you are a little too emotionally attached to a computer. Buy what works for you. If you can't find it, find the next best thing. If you feel more passionately than that, either get a life or start your own company.
Life has many choices.
I don't see how you can't see the problem here. Your only choice is to repair the screen or have a huge monstrosity on your desk for no reason. My screen breaks I can buy a new one, or at least take if off my desk until I get it repaired. Not to mention, I'm not sitting with no computer at all while my monitor is repaired.
Want to upgrade from 20" to 24" monitor? Sell your computer, buy a new one, migrate all your date, reinstall all your apps. I just plug in the new monitor. What if another company (gasp) comes out with a monitor you want. You're screwed with buying a new computer, or having two monitors on your desk - one which you didn't really need.
Options are good.
My Hackintosh right now is a Core2 Duo E6600, 2GB RAM, 80GB SATA, 160GB SATA, ATI X1650 Pro 512MB and an LG DVD burner in an antec case. The motherboard is an Asus P5LD2. Its rock solid and its very fast and it was affordable and its highly upgradable and its quiet
Until Apple releases a reasonable tower, this will be my Mac. My G4 is too old and slow and I refuse to pay for a Mac Pro becuase I dont need Xeons, I dont need > 8GB RAM, I dont need FBDIMMS and I DO appreciate ONE legacy PCI slot.
IMO the best thing apple has to offer is OSX. The machines are not special to me because for me aesthetics is not more important than functionality and convenience. I'd be much more happy if OSX's driver database grew and supported a wider range of hardware, apple then offers a special 'open' version which will run on any compatible hardware and they charge an extra $200 on top of the OS to make it worthwhile to them. Heck I'd be happy if I got no tech support either on that version of the OS (maybe just a forum).
Until Apple releases a reasonable tower, this will be my Mac. My G4 is too old and slow and I refuse to pay for a Mac Pro becuase I dont need Xeons, I dont need > 8GB RAM, I dont need FBDIMMS and I DO appreciate ONE legacy PCI slot.
IMO the best thing apple has to offer is OSX. The machines are not special to me because for me aesthetics is not more important than functionality and convenience. I'd be much more happy if OSX's driver database grew and supported a wider range of hardware, apple then offers a special 'open' version which will run on any compatible hardware and they charge an extra $200 on top of the OS to make it worthwhile to them. Heck I'd be happy if I got no tech support either on that version of the OS (maybe just a forum).
I'm qualified to answer if such an iMac would be OK because I have been wanting to replace my Cube for some time and Apple offers nothing that fits me: It's either a too small mini, an integrated screen that I don't want/need, or a Mac Pro overkill.
You're OK with the current iMac, so the question is not aimed at you.
I don't see a problem because I carefully weigh up what it is I want from a computer. A 24" iMac gives me the same viewing area as my 23" ACD, without the noise making heater I've got it cabled to.
If the monitor breaks, I can plug in an external one until the nice repair man comes round and fixes the iMac.
In 2 years I'll probably have sold the iMac and moved on to whatever. No piece of I.T. equipment is an investment, it all moves too quickly.
I agree that options are good, and there are plenty of them already.
Fair enough, it just came across a bit pointed.
Edit: For what's it worth I really don't have an axe to grind. IF the new MacPro is announced in the next 2-3 weeks and it looks good, I'll probably get one and cancel the iMac.
Most people dont get rid of their machine in just 2 years espcially at the cost of a 24" iMac. After the warranty period, if that imac screen dies (or the computer dies and the screen is ok) then your options are limited.
Also if you think Mr. Apple repairman will come to your door with a panel in his hand, I'd think you'd be mistaken. Your screen with the built in computer will go into a service depot and you will be without a machine until its fixed.
When our iMac G5 had a prob at work, we were given no options of an onsite screen repair. Had to go in for depot even with applecare and all.
Also if you think Mr. Apple repairman will come to your door with a panel in his hand, I'd think you'd be mistaken. Your screen with the built in computer will go into a service depot and you will be without a machine until its fixed.
When our iMac G5 had a prob at work, we were given no options of an onsite screen repair. Had to go in for depot even with applecare and all.
That's interesting. I must admit, I certainly wouldn't consider an iMac without Applecare. Now if Applecare doesn't care, then that does change things somewhat. Although the new iMac isn't that hard to get apart so if they can't even do that, I don't hold out much hope with the onsite service!
Can't see that you'd be in a much better position with a Mac Pro and a dead mobo or whatever though?
That is true (mac pro and dead mobo) however on our other G5 imac which had issues that appeared to be a system board, they did offer to send the board which I did replace because getting a tech was going to be a day or two delay. It wasnt too bad actually and I suspect a Mac Pro would be more difficult of a swap. I still dont understand why they didnt want to ship an LCD panel. I guess the LCD is much more expensive than a system board so they dont want to do it onsite. Not sure. Oh well.
Still, I dont like all my eggs in one basket and I guess for me, the iMac is the same as a notebook in that respect which is why I'd never have either as my main machine.
Still, I dont like all my eggs in one basket and I guess for me, the iMac is the same as a notebook in that respect which is why I'd never have either as my main machine.