Really? I'd like to see you transfer 200-500 photos from a D810 via wifi when time is of the essence. There are some narrow minded individuals here
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Why no SD slot: you see lies?
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Right, that is why Lindsay was panning the new MBP -- because it is prosumer, not truly professional.
Arment is a developer -- he blogs on the side. He had more Mac cred than anyone here for sure and is always on point when it comes to usability issues.
Really? I'd like to see you transfer 200-500 photos from a D810 via wifi when time is of the essence. There are some narrow minded individuals here
I'd like to see you explain yourself as to why you were using SD cards instead of the much faster CF cards available for the 810 if speed was of the essence.
I for one am looking forward to improved transfer speeds from CF and XQD cards. Apple already "looked foward" and saw the end of the light for traditional SD just like they did with the switch away from SATA-based SSDs.
Look, everyone, it's not like you cannot use SD cards if you need them. Most people don't - so they removed it. Others use CF or XQD cards - so they didn't use the SD card slot either. But if you really do need to use it, it will take up one small pocket of your laptop bag.
People act like they will loose this ability.
Let me give you my example. I use a Wacom tablet for my work. I just cannot work without it. And it uses an USB-A cable that I can't find in USB-C variant. I will have to use an adapter. Am I angry at Apple? No. Would I prefer I didn't have to use an adapter? Sure, I guess. But I don't really care. Not everyone uses Wacom tablets. Apple's design decisions shouldn't be based on what I specifically need - as long as they offer some reasonable solution. And one cheap adapter I attach to my cable and forget about it - that sounds reasonable.
People act like they will loose this ability.
Let me give you my example. I use a Wacom tablet for my work. I just cannot work without it. And it uses an USB-A cable that I can't find in USB-C variant. I will have to use an adapter. Am I angry at Apple? No. Would I prefer I didn't have to use an adapter? Sure, I guess. But I don't really care. Not everyone uses Wacom tablets. Apple's design decisions shouldn't be based on what I specifically need - as long as they offer some reasonable solution. And one cheap adapter I attach to my cable and forget about it - that sounds reasonable.
I don't use a laptop bag. I either carry the computer "naked", or use a slim briefcase. What's the point of a thin laptop if you then have to carry a giant nerd bag full of dongles?
Or perhaps like they are being asked to pay more for less?
Things like digitizer tablets, that are mostly used stationary, are indeed not a big deal. Just put an adapter on the cable and done. The problems come when you're out in the field and need to work with the connectors that are used in the real world today, e.g. when someone hands you a thumb drive, or you need to connect to a projector via HDMI in order to give a presentation, or yes, you have a camera that uses SD cards.
So you just carry your laptop in your hand? What about your camera? And you have no where else to put this small adapter? Fine. You're a specific, rare case that this is a problem. You could use, like, a pocket on your shirt - but I'm not even going to argue. You win - you are that one case where this is really an issue. For 99.7% other users, they can put the adapter in a laptop bag.
I knew this would come up. Anyway - while I agree that even if you are a billionaire you shouldn't throw away money. But I just cannot get over the fact that someone can afford a $3000 laptop and has an issue with a $50 adapter. If you are really a pro - since this word is tossed around here - then you will pay good money for your gear and buying a few adapters won't matter much.
And it's not "less". There are benefits to not using these ports. It's not like they did it out of spite. You may not like these reasons, but I would argue no one is paying more for "less". You get a minor inconvenience (and it _IS_ minor, let's not kid ourselves) for some benefits. Whether you appreciate them is up to you, but there is a sound logic behind this Apple's decision.
Out in the field.... without a laptop bag. Or a camera bag. Or pockets for one small adapter.
Come on! I can understand people are different, but this is really pushing it.
As far as I know USB 3 is modern tech. It's THE most used USB port on any computer and there are hundreds if not thousands of external drives and other perifrals that are USB 3 being sold today. You do realize it's going to take a couple more years for USB-C to become just as ubiquitous, right?None, have no need for them
I was just pointing out that USB-drives exists that actually works without dongles.
Like someone said before, dongles are only required due to not using modern tech in all your devices.
You do realize that USB-C *is* USB 3? Just a different type of physical plug? USB-A is the one that is old, not USB 3.
I use both. The SD card is the backup card. But since I have the SD card slot sometimes it's just easier to use the SD card to transfer my photos. I also transfer photos to my PC as a backup and use the CF card to do that. This gives me the opportunity to handle two things at once.
Besides my point stands, SD or CF is much faster than transferring via WiFi.
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Of course but that's not the point. The point is that USB 3 is current tech.
You can use USB 3 with the new MBP. They have only updated the port to something that makes it more future proof and yet still works with your current or old devices. You simply need to buy a couple adapters or replace your cables (when possible) so they end with USB-C. Personally I have a thunderbolt 2 dock in my office and will just connect a thunderbolt 3 to 2 adapter in my office at home. On the road, I can get by with one USB to USB-C adapter. For my needs this is a non-issue. I would have preferred that Apple put one $19 cable in the box, but it isn't a huge expenditure to make the thing backward compatible.
The bigger issue is that Apple wants to push the market to much faster data transfer solutions and one (much better) port to rule them all. If they continue to use old, comparatively slow ports, that change won't happen or it will happen at a much slower rate. Personally, I am looking forward to the faster tech that comes with these ports. I am willing to live with slight inconveniences for better future proofing.
My 2011 MBP has tons of different ports. The thing is, other than power, I typically use the one port people complained about the most, because there wasn't anything you could use with it at the time...thunderbolt. Since the port has flexibility and speed, with an adapter, I can hook up USB3 drives to it and get 10 times faster speeds than my built in USB ports. As I mentioned, I can also dock it and get access to more USB 3 drives and thunderbolt SSD drives with Seagate adapters. It is the one port that is still useful and current. I envision that people will be thankful for these USB-C ports as the market changes and it will make these machines much more useful over time.
The bigger issue is that Apple wants to push the market to much faster data transfer solutions and one (much better) port to rule them all. If they continue to use old, comparatively slow ports, that change won't happen or it will happen at a much slower rate. Personally, I am looking forward to the faster tech that comes with these ports. I am willing to live with slight inconveniences for better future proofing.
My 2011 MBP has tons of different ports. The thing is, other than power, I typically use the one port people complained about the most, because there wasn't anything you could use with it at the time...thunderbolt. Since the port has flexibility and speed, with an adapter, I can hook up USB3 drives to it and get 10 times faster speeds than my built in USB ports. As I mentioned, I can also dock it and get access to more USB 3 drives and thunderbolt SSD drives with Seagate adapters. It is the one port that is still useful and current. I envision that people will be thankful for these USB-C ports as the market changes and it will make these machines much more useful over time.
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Why not keep one of the older USB ports so I can be compatible with everyone else out there without have to get a piece of crap adapter because the Apple says I'm living in the past. Who's to say Apple doesn't abandon the new port in three years. Just because something is older technology doesn't mean I have to throw it out right right away, I still drive my 29 year old car to work and it keeps up with the new cars pretty well, plus it's upgradable.
People, just don't buy it then. Its over. Its not gonna change so why keep complaining lol. It isn't your call how they build their computers. Don't like it don't buy it. Competition is a good thing, support a competitor. Nobody really cares.
Then you are more of a past generation Mac user. Nothing wrong with that, but tech moves on to better things and leaves older stuff behind. If you like old stuff, keep your old stuff. It s just the floppy disc all over again.Why not keep one of the older USB ports so I can be compatible with everyone else out there without have to get a piece of crap adapter because the Apple says I'm living in the past. Who's to say Apple doesn't abandon the new port in three years. Just because something is older technology doesn't mean I have to throw it out right right away, I still drive my 29 year old car to work and it keeps up with the new cars pretty well, plus it's upgradable.
My car doesn't have an 8 track player in it either. It was phased out by cassette which was phased out by CD, which will eventually be phased out by Bluetooth. It is a natural progression, even if people heavily invested in 8 tracks weren't happy with it.
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The fact that they removed SD slot is not the problem per se, but theirs EXPLANATION. They said it is cumbersome and is sticking out. Now, how do you connect an iPhone to a new MBP in a non cumbersome way? What do I do with my LaCee USB 3.0 drives? What do I do with flash storage that has USB 3.0 connection? Wireless? How do you imagine transferring 2000 files from a 50 Mpx camera wirelesly?
This new apple product is for sure not for peofessionals!
[doublepost=1478233433][/doublepost]You really think that limiting RAM to 16 GB is future proof?
This new apple product is for sure not for peofessionals!
[doublepost=1478233433][/doublepost]You really think that limiting RAM to 16 GB is future proof?
You're looking at this completely wrong and just repeating something that went viral and now every hater out there is riffing off. It's BS. Suddenly, the most important thing on a laptop is a card reader, just as the most important thing you can do with a phone is charge it while listening to music.
For those that need the port, they are going to use a small external reader. And some will want use XQD, some UFS, some CompactFlash, only some will use SD cards. Vast majority of people won't use them. So you want to put some cumbersome slot on mu MacBook Pro, even though I will never use it? For example, I don't need an SD port, but I need more USB ports, 2 on the previous models is not enough. So, what's the solution? If there only was some kind of UNIVERSAL PORT so we could all get what we want!
Oh yeah, there is. If only some company would be forward thinking enough to maximise on these ports and give us 4 of these, instead of putting a bunch of different ones.
Oh yeah, there is.
This is a non-issue. This is an issue if you want something to complain about.
And stop it with "multiple adapters" talk. That's not going to happen. No one will have "multiple adapters". You will have one hub with a card reader, or just the card reader. You're going to replace a few cables with new cables. USB-C to micro USB for example, buy a few of these and you'll actually have MORE ports to attach your devices than on previous models.
Not putting a clunky slot that only a few people will use is not just something that doesn't bother objective users - it is actually the prefered choice. Most pro photographer blogs agree - it's not a big deal, they already use readers anyway. The only ones who are bothered by this are people who like to complain.
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Of course you can. Of course.
Just get new frigging cables. What adapters? Seriously, what effing adapters? What more simplicity do you need?
Here, one search on Amazon. It's 12 dollars.
https://www.amazon.com/USB-3-1-Type...id=1478169582&sr=8-4&keywords=lightning+usb-c
There, I just solved your issue with "simplicity that is the core thing that defines Apple". Repeat this step for all your other devices. I bet you can solve this issue for all your devices for, like, $30-40.
Can we realize this is not a problem, or are we still going to make stuff up because, as Louis C. K. says, "everything is amazing but no one is happy"?
So I'm to be crucified because my current setup involves working with our pile of nearly a hundred TB2 drives, driving a 4K P2715Q monitor via DisplayPort, and shooting multi cam shoots on the Sony A7sII(SD card), conducting photoshoots on the Fuji XPro2(You guessed it, dual SD slots), and dumping aerial and GoPro footage (...SD)on a daily basis all across the world working in the music video and commercial industry?
How much does it cost me to connect all of these devices on the regular again? Two very large TB2 dongles at $60 each (one for the monitor and one for TB drives), a solid USBC card reader at around $30, and an assortment of micro-USB to USB-C and similar, and then carrying all of this crap around 24/7 and if I forget or lose anything just once then I'm up a creek.
Finally manage to get all that footage ingested and pop it into the timeline only hours later I get "The system has run out of application memory" with a hard stop, because I'm dealing with a few layers of 4K video with 16GB of RAM.
It's bad news for working professionals in the creative field. And the answer is "**** off, deal with it or use Windows"? All over situations that could have been easily solved by thinking of the userbase that exists and designing a product for them?
No one would have been hurt across the entire userbase if the notebook wasn't 12% thinner, but instead they used the little bit of extra battery capacity to rise above 16GB, retain the tiny SD slot, and maybe even throw a hotter GPU in. It's this trade off that nobody - NOBODY - who buys a 15 inch MacBook Pro would miss.
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You are good at half quotes. I said it was BETTER future proofing to have the new ports. Sorry about you reading comprehension. Phil said there are a COUPLE reasons:
"Because of a couple of things. One, it’s a bit of a cumbersome slot. You’ve got this thing sticking halfway out. Then there are very fine and fast USB card readers, and then you can use CompactFlash as well as SD. So we could never really resolve this – we picked SD because more consumer cameras have SD but you can only pick one. So, that was a bit of a trade-off. And then more and more cameras are starting to build wireless transfer into the camera. That’s proving very useful. So we think there’s a path forward where you can use a physical adaptor if you want, or do wireless transfer."
As I said, the millions of CF card users (many more pros than average consumers) that never got an advantage from that slot. Welcome to the party. Most regular consumers now use their phones to take photos, so those point and shoots that had SD are falling off the map. Wifi via Photos, Google Photos, etc is what the majority use now...so their initial reason for including SD has vanished.
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Then it is not a product for professionals, it is for masses...just a bigger screen than Macbook.
Really? I work in Silicon Valley. On every single office campus I visit I see l lots of people walking around with their laptops in their hand. Until about a year ago, I tried to always carry a mini-DP/VGA adapter, in case I wanted to connect the computer to a big screen to discuss or present something. Always a pain when I forgot the damn thing. Now we are finally at the point where HDMI connectors are almost ubiquitous in meeting rooms so I don't need the VGA dongle anymore. And what does Apple do? They remove the frickin' HDMI port.
In addition they also remove all USB type A ports, so with these machines I couldn't even exchange files via thumb drive with the rest of the world anymore (which happens all the time) if I don't remember to bring another dongle. And for what?Can you name a single benefit for the user of leaving off SD Card slot and HDMI port from a so-called "pro" computer?
What "sound logic" might that be? The only logic I can see is Apple dumbing down their machines more and more, and selling more and more expensive dongles. But hey, Cook also said that people should replace their computers with iPad "Pros", so I guess we all just need to get with the program right? The fact that they spent so much time of their keynote hyping up the stupid touchbar gimmick and the improvments of the (of course still crappy) laptop speakers speaks volumes.
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http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MK0X2AM/A/usb-c-to-lightning-cable-1-m?fnode=8b
http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14853
(if yours doesn't use this, maybe this then? http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14851)
http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=13507
Or just buy a new one since they're pretty cheap and you'd likely get a faster transfer rate in the process.
Sounds like it's more just not for you.
Not really, no. I'd love 32GB. But this is part Intel's fault and part Apple's emphasis on battery life. It is what it is and will change in the future.
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Comment about the same interview by Schiller.....During the end of the interview, Schiller admitted that the level of criticism around the new MacBook Pro ‘has been a bit of a surprise.’ He went on to say that he has 'never seen a great new Apple product that didn’t have its share of early criticism and debate — and that’s cool. We took a bold risk, and of course with every step forward there is also some change to deal with.'
So they are so far up their own arse they find it strange everyone doesn't love their flawed product. Not really a surprise is it when they take risks" by launching a design that isn't based on user input and real world use cases? What he is saying is that "when we screw up on design, theres always some PR required to make us look good and persuade the public that they ( the customer) are wrong"
So they are so far up their own arse they find it strange everyone doesn't love their flawed product. Not really a surprise is it when they take risks" by launching a design that isn't based on user input and real world use cases? What he is saying is that "when we screw up on design, theres always some PR required to make us look good and persuade the public that they ( the customer) are wrong"
Really? I'd like to see you transfer 200-500 photos from a D810 via wifi when time is of the essence. There are some narrow minded individuals here
You're missing the point.
Most people do not have any use for the SD-card slot, hence they removed it. For those few that need it, there's an adapter for it - which should be much faster than the previously built-in SD-card reader.
For the record, connecting the camera via USB-C (either TB3 or USB 3.1) should be much much faster than SD-card.
USB 3 isn't a USB port.
The problem isn't that other companies aren't using USB 3, it's that they aren't using USB-C type port. Why aren't you mad at them for selling you out of date hardware (and if you're a photographer you probably even payed quite a lot for that outdated hardware)?!
Well, ok, look - I get you, man, this won't be easy for you. But still, the number of cameras with SD slots doesn't really matter because you just need one SD card reader. The monitor situation can also be solved with one cable, and so on. But I get it - it's not an easy situation.
However, your situation is also a great example how the only way Apple would make you happy - is if it didn't change anything. Even if Apple added the SD card reader and USB-A ports, you still wouldn't be happy - because they would also need to add Thunderbolt 2/miniDP ports. And since you need both a monitor and a place to attach TB2 drives, you need 2. So, basically, you want all the ports that were already there. And since adding TB3 to all that would almost be impossible - with TB2 ports taking up PCI lanes and all other ports taking up space, etc. - you basically don't want the new ports. That means, you basically want the same MBP we have, just with Skylake.
And I agree, I guess that would be more useful to you in the short term. But, basically, there would have to be a moment when they would need to replace these TB2s with TB3s. And you would have the same problem.
This will be an inconvenience to you, but it would come sooner or later. I'm not saying it's a perfect solution. But even if they somehow added both TB2 and TB3 ports to the new MBP, how many TB2 users would take it as a sign that it's time to start upgrading? No one. They would continue to use the old ports until they were removed one day, and this problem would arise again.
You should listen to the latest ATP podcast. They discuss this situation exactly, and I think their arguments are solid.
As I said, you basically want the same MacBook they had, but with newer CPU. We expect Apple to come up with exciting new stuff, but we don't want them to change anything. And you assume too much by saying that no one would be hurt if the laptop wasn't thinner. A lot of people want it lighter (which means thinner). People buy smaller. This is what phased out the 17", it sold poorly. People want better mobility in their laptops, and yes, even the pros do. We also don't know if the thicker design would allow for more than 16Gb. As they wouldn't be able to use low-power RAM, there is a chance that even a bigger battery wouldn't help. All 32Gb laptops have very bad battery life. And even if they crammed an even bigger battery to compensate, that would add weight to the laptop and they would actually end up with a heavier laptop that what we had. Really, you can choose between 32Gb and better GPUs and battery life. You can't have both, currently. And if Apple made a heavier laptop with worse battery life: A) Everyone here would say how Apple doesn't care about the Mac, how they've lost it, how Surface Book (which doesn't have 32Gb option either) is better, etc. and B) A lot less people would buy such a laptop.
So basically, everyone here is assuming they could design a better laptop than Apple. Like they didn't weigh in all the pros and cons. Like if they made it thicker, everything would be solved. But they couldn't fit 32Gb RAM in the previous generation - so the only way to do it is to make it even more heavy. And to put TB3 ports and keep everything people want, they would have to make it even more large. In fact, if they did everything people are asking, they would end up with a monstrosity. Instead, they decided - this is the best laptop they can make. It will be amazing for most of people, great for some, and bad for a few.
Your post, even though I really understand your issues and they are real, convinced me that Apple really didn't have any other option, but to push in this direction.
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This is completely and utterly wrong from every angle.
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Lower weight and smaller profile. And I'm not an engineer and could be wrong - but I think each of these ports takes up some data pathway inside, some PCIe lane or whatever, I guess they wouldn't be able to put 4 universal ports if they added all those ports you want.
Also, there is a secondary effect of pushing the industry towards what will be the standard - sooner. This is literally the only way to see this standard in our lifetime.
Wherther this benefit is something you care about is a different thing, but it is a benefit. But it is funny how you don't care how much a laptop weighs, but refuse to carry a bag. By your definition of "pro", shouldn't you be prepared to carry the extra weight? Seriously - for people who claim to not care how a laptop looks or how light it is, you're making a really big fuss over a few dongles. It's fine to carry a heavier, bulkier laptop because we're these tough, utilitarian pros but god forbid if someone tries to force us to carry a bag to work.
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Oh, and I forgot to comment on this - crucified? Seriously? Because of a few dongles and adapters you're "crucified". I know it's just a metaphor, but what do you call when you have to go through an airport - "being flayed alive?"
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While a bit of this comment may be true for some professions, it has little to do with removing the SD slot.
The word "pro" has a different meaning depending on who you ask. If you are Alex Lindsey, you apparently think "pro" means MagSafe adapter (I am sure Griffin will solve that issue if their current cable doesn't). If you are Andy Ihnatko, you think it means a keyboard with thick mechanical keys. There is no one description of what is "pro". In this case, Apple is defining this as their Pro laptop, so they are defining what that means. It is much more than just a bigger screen when compared to the MacBook, so it is their Pro/top tier. Many professionals will buy it, I know our marketing department and sales department will be getting some, so it is still a product for "pros". It just isn't an ideal product for a small subset of those "pros".
I do agree that this is aimed at the masses rather than being a niche product like the Mac Pro. They have to make money somewhere in the line up and this has the best combination of 15 inch screen size, body size, power, and battery life in their laptop line up. I am sure a maxed out, 8 pound MBP-XXL that has every conceivable legacy port and has to be plugged in every couple of hours to recharge would make some pros very happy. However, I can't see Apple making that product.
The problem people are running into is that they want a laptop tailored for their very specific needs and this laptop can't be that because people have a wide range of needs that conflict. As I said, the SD card slot removal is no different than when they removed a dozen other things (VGA, Floppy disc, optical drive, etc.) in the past. It creates problems with current peripherals, but that problem goes away as the market changes.