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One benefit that I have so far not seen mentioned is maximizing economies of scale from a procurement perspective.

From Apple's point of view, broadening the line-up is as much about maximizing units for components procured, as about profit.

If they can add a product to increase their unit sales, say, by 10 million units, that in itself is a benefit that allows them to negotiate better pricing for components, thereby achieving higher margins across the portfolio. Instead of purchasing 150 million units of a component, they now purchase 160 million. Indirectly, every sale of a foldable will help them increase margins for most other iPhones. And this may hold true, even if that additional product by itself does not turn in any profit.

Think procuring SoCs, cameras, sensors, display controllers, USB ports, buttons...

Also, every additional unit sold is a sale taken away from a competitor. So it's a double strike, as it also reduces the competitor's procurement leverage and economies of scale. This is an entire new reason to not let competitors act unopposed, as if they do, you likewise have the same dual drawback leveraged against you.

This key benefit applies to additional iPhone variants (foldable, but also Air, mini) to a larger extent than it did to the Vision Pro. So there will be a higher tolerance as to what is considered failure from a business perspective, as this is weighed in.

Also, there is higher development and production synergy between adding just another phone variant, or an entirely new product category like the Vision Pro. This adds further tolerance. The Vision Pro pretty much had to be expensive. Think getting an entirely different team going, supporting and funding them throughout, onboarding new suppliers, developing a custom R1 chip and sensors, micro OLED tech, straps, lenses, OS and software ecosystem... In comparison, the custom parts to the foldable compared to the Air are relatively minor – it's the hinge and the displays. If the foldable's release did not coincide with the memory crisis at its supposed peak, it would only be super-expensive because Apple wanted it to be, not because it had to be. There is much more room here to turn a profit, and even if it did not, Apple would likely want to keep it, for the above reasons, as long as it did not generate an overall loss or risked becoming a PR issue.
 
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This is pretty much what industry analysts and related news media do for a living. The purpose being twofold: guiding investors (and practically, competitors), and informing purchasing decisions. Add to that fandom and the high identification that Apple in particular as a lifestyle technology brand enjoys with its core audience. Whether we personally relate to any of that, MacRumors just happens to be the kind of place where such stuff tends to bundle up, and the forum attracts a corresponding audience and discussions. It's simply a selection effect vs. the more general public.
I do read a lot of that type of news mostly because I believe they may have access to information that the rest of us don’t. Without that information I feel like everyone is just guessing. Guessing is fine though. It’s wanting to be recognized for your guesses that confuses me.
 
I do read a lot of that type of news mostly because I believe they may have access to information that the rest of us don’t. Without that information I feel like everyone is just guessing. Guessing is fine though. It’s wanting to be recognized for your guesses that confuses me.

I read the OP more as seeking opposing views, not recognition or validation. But I guess some feedback (and validation) is just human nature.
 
Aside from you casting aspersions against people that are unfounded, you do seem to waste your time talking to people about a topic you seem to think is a waste of time.
Made exactly one post (besides this one) to praise a fellow forum member's well-considered and rational counterarguments to what I do consider nonsense. I also don't consider that a waste of my time. You on the other hand...wow.
 
I really don't think outside of these forums the masses are going to purchase them but I could be wrong but I see as many Android phones as Apple phones and Android folable has been out for years and yet I only saw one at the steak house a year ago but I could be wrong.
It's possible you were in the proximity of foldables without realizing it. When closed (or in a case) a foldable will appear to be a regular slab phone with cover screen. Most people don't expect a phone to suddenly unfold and are unaware there's even a foldable on the table.

Several people have teased me for bringing an "iPad" to a meeting, restaurant, doctor's office, or Costco until they realize it's a foldable phone...then they want one. My wife's workout buddy really liked my Fold 6 at the time and was ready to ditch her iPhone. I told her Apple is making a foldable iPhone if she wants to wait. My boss just traded in his S25 Ultra for the new Fold 8 and loves it. I've been using foldables for several years and he joked that he'll do the Fold 8 first and work his way up to my TriFold.
 
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I don’t eat up what corporations shoot out of their mouths. There is little evidence that they would sell much more if the price was much cheaper but there is evidence that even if they did sell more, many would be sitting not used and collecting dust.
Which is pretty much the opposite of a folding phone.
Even if someone purchases one and doesn’t return it within the return window, they have to use it.
Because guess what? It’s their phone. And most people don’t have multiple phones. At least not multiple personal phones.
 
I was highly tempted by the Air... so I get your point. But aren't we discussing personal preference? I doubt I will buy a fold today but thats because of the overall economy, not just the price of the fold. But then I own both an iPhone and a iPad menu because screen size is important to me, so I get why some will buy the fold.
Actually, 2 Airs paired together and having a child might be the result of the new folding iPhone ?

Yah, I think the folding iPhone will sell and continue to sell, although the Pro and Pro Max camps will probably resist due to the downgrade ??

As an Air user, I'd love to see Apple succeed in their folding phone venture - just not at $2K+.
 
That's why I never owned an iPad - hate iPad OS; except from work where I had to use it, but now retired so I turned it back in. 👍
I like the iPad, iPad mini more prior to the jelly scrolling issue. I dislike that apps cannot be installed outside the AppStore on it. I have a workaround for it now but I would prefer if the owner of the device had the option to use either the AppStore or not for apps like macOS. I don’t need a babysitter to tell me what I should or shouldn’t for my safety when sandboxing has been available on macOS and iOS for awhile.
 
I had the same discussions with people when I predicted the AVP would fail. The AVP didn’t even meet Apple’s internal, paltry sales expectations and then they scaled production back.

But it won’t matter where or even at what price the iPhone Fold will be sold at: it will fail because it’s a device that doesn’t have much of a reason to exist.
Can the AVP be used x in public like a phone or tablet; nope, why? Because it’s a device to be used in its own personal space. Why bother with an AVP for entertainment purposes when I can have a more affordable experience, it’s isolating and not inviting that’s why it failed including the high price tag.

G4 Cube also failed due to having a high price tag and having thermal issues under intense work load plus costly upgrade options. It was basically the precursor to the Mac mini.
 
Actually, 2 Airs paired together and having a child might be the result of the new folding iPhone ?

Yah, I think the folding iPhone will sell and continue to sell, although the Pro and Pro Max camps will probably resist due to the downgrade ??

As an Air user, I'd love to see Apple succeed in their folding phone venture - just not at $2K+.
I will consider the iPhold, my concern is the lack of telephoto and FaceID.

Another option for me is an iPhone Pro and iPad mini. If the jelly scroll is fixed I am on it like white on rice. 😅
 
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I will consider the iPhold, my concern is the lack of telephoto and FaceID.

Another option for me is an iPhone Pro and iPad mini. If the jelly scroll is fixed I am on it like white on rice. 😅
I mostly point and shoot, so hopefully I’ll be fine without the telephoto lens, although it’s definitely a step back from the Pro cameras. Other than that, I am cool with Touch ID and any other “shortcomings.”
 
I agree with you. I can’t believe they haven’t learned from the failure of the Air. You can’t call something Ultra, price it luxury and then offer a significantly worse camera system on it. This will have such a tiny take take it will be funny.
 
100 million (total sales over time) sounds like a lot, and it is. But it is still a small percentage overall of the smartphone market.

There is little evidence that foldables would capture significantly more marketshare if they were cheaper. Also, there are foldables for $800 USD…
Those are "Flip" phones for $800, not quite the same as book-style foldables. Foldable discussions generally refer to the latter. I am not really a fan of Flip phones because the cover screen is tiny and you really need to unfold the phone every time to use it properly.

You don't have to open a book-style foldable because the cover screen allows you to use it like a slab phone when the situation suits you. A book-style foldable is a lot more versatile and more expensive. With all the improvements to book-style foldables over the years, the last barrier remains price. As foldables go mainstream, price will creep lower through economies of scale and more people will consider a book-style foldable when it's closer within their budget. Just look at the discussion boards, a lot of times it's a variation of "not at that price" or "I'm not paying that much for a phone". Anything will sell at the right price though, and book-style foldables will surely sell more at a lower/better price.

Right now book-style foldables occupy the same, if not higher, tier as flagship phones. Maybe if Samsung/Apple differentiates tiers of book-style foldables in the future, like the different pricing tiers of iPhones, then we'll see greater foldable sales numbers. But I think the sheer entry of the foldable iPhone alone will boost foldable sales figures tremendously.
 
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I mostly point and shoot, so hopefully I’ll be fine without the telephoto lens, although it’s definitely a step back from the Pro cameras. Other than that, I am cool with Touch ID and any other “shortcomings.”
I barely take out any pictures these days, paying a premium price and not having 3 rear cameras, I am not sure. FaceID I can live without.
 
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Interesting take. I'm a huge fan of Foldables since the Z Fold 2. I don't plan on buying the new folding iPhone. I currently own the iPhone Air.

One handed, I'm pretty sure the folded iPhone Fold will have better one handed capability than the iPhone 17, Air, Pro, and obviously Pro Max.

Is a foldable tablet / smartphone niche? Yes of course. If Apple defines failure as failure-to-make-mainstream, then the Fold will probably be a failure. I think it should exist as a niche option, and the pricing will ensure that it stays that way.

That being said, foldables are a game changer for the right type of user. It's a specific type of user, like me, who derives enormous value out of them, and for that reason I've been a fan since the Z Fold 2. But I also plan to wait for gen 2 from Apple or at least until the secondhand market puts them at roughly half price or less.
 
Global foldable smartphone marketshare after 7 years as a product category is still only 2%.

An echo-chamber of niche product users isn’t representative of success for Apple.
As I replied to you when you posted this thread last year, that “2%” marketshare is without Apple offering a foldable.

I am not saying the iPhone foldable is guaranteed to be a mass hit (in fact, I don’t expect it to be anywhere close to the most popular iPhone sold), but it's not as simple as "only 2% to date, so no wants one."

Apple has a global market share of something like 67% of phones sold over $1000 USD. Which means, to date, roughly 2 out of every 3 people potentially interested in a foldable would have to switch OSes to get one, and most people won't consider switching OSes.

If only 10% of iPhones sold are foldables (which is a few percentage points higher than estimates for the iPhone Air that everyone says has flopped), that would increase the global rate to something like 5% of all phones sold being foldables. It's also highly possible that the fact that Apple makes a foldable (and presumably advertises it heavily) draws attention to the product category and the share of Android foldables rises as well.

And remember, the revenue on these is going to sky high. Let’s assume 10% of iPhones sold are foldable.At a $2000 average selling price (and ASP will be higher than that), that's like $20-30 billion in additional revenue a year. Which could match all Macs sold (~$30b) or all iPads (~$28 billion). It’s like getting a decent percentage of your best customers to buy one-and-a-half to two iPhones instead of one.

It's still serious revenue if we drop that to 5% of iPhones sold (less than iPhone Air) - $10-$15 billion in additional revenue - so a little less than Apple Watch annual revenue. Even if you are right, and Apple just matches the 2% market share Android foldables have to date, it's an extra $5 billion in revenue.

No one is arguing the foldable will be the #1 selling iPhone, but I think you're seriously underestimating how few (relatively speaking) they have to sell for it to be very worthwhile for Apple.
 
You either missed or ignored my point... which was not whether it was a niche, but only if niche is a failure (the point of this thread). And the word niche is dismissive, Porsches make up 0.016% of all motor vehicles sold in a year, so that is a niche your definition, actually an ultra niche (pardon the joke), yet few would call Porsches a failure. Though I suspect some would try to argue such to support a bad position.
Some people have yet to realise that Apple isn't a small upstart on the verge of bankruptcy, and can actually afford to make niche products that some people will love, yet don't serve the wider market.

You see it all the time where people seem to think Apple's R&D is a dozen people in a basement lab, who can only work on one thing at a time!
 
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As I replied to you when you posted this thread last year, that “2%” marketshare is without Apple offering a foldable.

I am not saying the iPhone foldable is guaranteed to be a mass hit (in fact, I don’t expect it to be anywhere close to the most popular iPhone sold), but it's not as simple as "only 2% to date, so no wants one."

Apple has a global market share of something like 67% of phones sold over $1000 USD. Which means, to date, roughly 2 out of every 3 people potentially interested in a foldable would have to switch OSes to get one, and most people won't consider switching OSes.

If only 10% of iPhones sold are foldables (which is a few percentage points higher than estimates for the iPhone Air that everyone says has flopped), that would increase the global rate to something like 5% of all phones sold being foldables. It's also highly possible that the fact that Apple makes a foldable (and presumably advertises it heavily) draws attention to the product category and the share of Android foldables rises as well.

And remember, the revenue on these is going to sky high. Let’s assume 10% of iPhones sold are foldable.At a $2000 average selling price (and ASP will be higher than that), that's like $20-30 billion in additional revenue a year. Which could match all Macs sold (~$30b) or all iPads (~$28 billion). It’s like getting a decent percentage of your best customers to buy one-and-a-half to two iPhones instead of one.

It's still serious revenue if we drop that to 5% of iPhones sold (less than iPhone Air) - $10-$15 billion in additional revenue - so a little less than Apple Watch annual revenue. Even if you are right, and Apple just matches the 2% market share Android foldables have to date, it's an extra $5 billion in revenue.

No one is arguing the foldable will be the #1 selling iPhone, but I think you're seriously underestimating how few (relatively speaking) they have to sell for it to be very worthwhile for Apple.
I think people have some high expectations regarding sales figures for this iPhold. You made some valid points, this device is seen as an introduction into the folding phone arena and will only develop and mature from there. Thinking it’s going to replace the iPhone Pro/Max in sales overnight is fooling oneself. Yes, it will be double the price, yes it will be limited amount available and long shipping time is guaranteed. It will be the first iPhone also running some flavour of iPadOS and that is the selling point of it.

With V.2 and onwards it will get what was missing and draw even more customers in. For every product there is a bell curve and this will be no different.
 
Some people have yet to realise that Apple isn't a small upstart on the verge of bankruptcy, and can actually afford to make niche products that some people will love, yet don't serve the wider market.

You see it all the time where people seem to think Apple's R&D is a dozen people in a basement lab, who can only work on one thing at a time!
The iPhold only has to meet Apple’s internal sales target to be successful and I presume it’s not some astronomical percentage either given the price tag. I suspect it’s probably 10% or less.
 
Those are "Flip" phones for $800, not quite the same as book-style foldables. Foldable discussions generally refer to the latter. I am not really a fan of Flip phones because the cover screen is tiny and you really need to unfold the phone every time to use it properly.

You don't have to open a book-style foldable because the cover screen allows you to use it like a slab phone when the situation suits you. A book-style foldable is a lot more versatile and more expensive. With all the improvements to book-style foldables over the years, the last barrier remains price. As foldables go mainstream, price will creep lower through economies of scale and more people will consider a book-style foldable when it's closer within their budget. Just look at the discussion boards, a lot of times it's a variation of "not at that price" or "I'm not paying that much for a phone". Anything will sell at the right price though, and book-style foldables will surely sell more at a lower/better price.

Right now book-style foldables occupy the same, if not higher, tier as flagship phones. Maybe if Samsung/Apple differentiates tiers of book-style foldables in the future, like the different pricing tiers of iPhones, then we'll see greater foldable sales numbers. But I think the sheer entry of the foldable iPhone alone will boost foldable sales figures tremendously.
They’re foldable. They help the foldable category. They were neck and neck with book style a year ago. We’ll see how that plays out, but they do fold up practically for pockets.
 
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