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Will APPLE EVER give up on screwing PRO user (no firewire) read in.
- Thread starter hiimamac
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Well instead of whining here which wont fix anything, why don't you email Apple and S.Jobs,I guess if enough people like you flame Apple then hopefully they will realize that its a bad idea on what they did and introduce firewire again in MW09
Jobs will them to get a MacBook Pro.
Just like everyone who buys a new Macbook starts a new thread announcing it or the numerous Applesac review threads, or the numerous threads about how the keys are slanted on the new one or the numerous threads about a crack on the old Macbook, or......list goes on and on? I hope I see you make a post in those complaining also or it makes you look like a hypocrite.
As I said before if you don't like it don't click on the thread. It is that hard for you?
Pardon the expression, but .... lolwut?
How is someone posting a review of a product, such as an applesac, the same as beating a dead horse, such as lack of FW on the non-Pro line of Macbooks?
Apple made a choice - why is this so hard to understand? No one is asking you to "take it laying down" ... go buy a laptop that meets your needs! You have the power! Good lord man.
Apple isn't going to cover the iPhone in buttons, they aren't going to sell a headless mid-range Mac, they aren't going to bring back the floppy, and they're not going to include FW on their non-Pro laptops (at least for the near term, it seems) ... it's their company! They can do what they want, and you can buy what you want.
It's win/win!
I haven't make a post on this thread defending or bashing Apple for their decision, but thank you for the lecture.
My complaint was that IF YOU or anyone else doesn't like the fact that people are pissed about it and starts threads complaining about it DON'T click on the thread if it gets your panties in a wad. No ONE makes you or anyone else read the thread.
Yeah, but it's bad form when there's already other threads on this exact subject, expressing these exact sentiments.
Like I said there are at least 5 new threads each day about someone who just bought a new Macbook and asking what they should install, how someone loves the new Applesac they bought, how someone developed a new crack on their previous Macbook, how someone has a dead pixel on their new on, etc.. Complain in those too. If you single out this one issue and not say anything about those then it is clear you have an agenda. I know you probably own a new one and hate people are critical of it, but that is life. Once again if someone doesn't like to hear complaints about their system then don't come to this site or at the least don't click on the thread which was clearly titled. If I don't like a subject on a thread then I don't click on it. Why is that so hard for some of you? If the owner of this board had a problem with numerous threads about the same subjects, they would delete them or merge them. Evidently he doesn't have a problem with it. That means each of us has to moderate what we view and that means we shouldn't click on threads that get us pissed.
Wait, I have a question. I though that the X3100 was supposed to be marginally better than the previous intel video cards. Im I missing something here?
I do agree that Apple shouldn't have removed the firewire port, but hey is Apple, they can do whatever they want and still people will buy their products (including me). The other stupid decision they made was limiting the current LED cinema display lineup to only the current macbook lineup. But that's their problem, due to that decision I wont be spending almost $1000 dollars on the new display (even though they look sexy as hell).
I do agree that Apple shouldn't have removed the firewire port, but hey is Apple, they can do whatever they want and still people will buy their products (including me). The other stupid decision they made was limiting the current LED cinema display lineup to only the current macbook lineup. But that's their problem, due to that decision I wont be spending almost $1000 dollars on the new display (even though they look sexy as hell).
The difference in those threads are that you can actually get something from the input of others, maybe solve a problem.
These threads however, are just endless bitchfests that are completely covered already in other threads.
The "Steve Jobs comments on lack of FW" thread has over 57 pages, why not go bitch there?
We get your upset, and somewhat rightfully so, but what is starting a thread on a purely hypothetical question going to do that the other very popular threads dont?
These threads however, are just endless bitchfests that are completely covered already in other threads.
The "Steve Jobs comments on lack of FW" thread has over 57 pages, why not go bitch there?
We get your upset, and somewhat rightfully so, but what is starting a thread on a purely hypothetical question going to do that the other very popular threads dont?
The new macbooks use nvidias new cards, not the intel x3100.
And correct me if I'm wrong but has apple stopped selling the other Cinema Displays?
You make no sense, but that is on par for you on this site looking at your "in your face" aggressive posting style.
There is no difference and like I said complain in those threads where the exact same thing is stated over and over and over again. I know, I know. Most of those aren't critical of something you bought. You have a clear bias.
As I said before and before. If you don't like it then don't click on the thread. I think you like the attention you get by trying to be a internet badass because if you don't then why do you keep clicking on threads that upset you so much?
As far as Apple's pricing on their Pro laptops they are completely justified.
1499 (High-end MB with same processor)
+150 (9600GTM)
= 1649 + a amount for increased size + b for increased manufacturing costs with new manufacturing process + c for better screens + d for better speakers
Overall, between those factors Apple as a whole seems to not be charging as high of a premium. Even Apple RAM is now comparable and in the HE stores cheaper than commercial RAM.
If you need firewire buy the last edition MB or a new MBP
1499 (High-end MB with same processor)
+150 (9600GTM)
= 1649 + a amount for increased size + b for increased manufacturing costs with new manufacturing process + c for better screens + d for better speakers
Overall, between those factors Apple as a whole seems to not be charging as high of a premium. Even Apple RAM is now comparable and in the HE stores cheaper than commercial RAM.
If you need firewire buy the last edition MB or a new MBP
Here is a link to all the problems with the NON TEXAS INSTRUMENTS Firewire chipsets -
http://www.gearspace.com/board/musi...ets-can-troublesome-okt-07-till-feb-08-a.html
The interesting thing is Apple pulled this stunt on the macbook pro for a few months but the pro had more leverage -
As it stands today:
Macbook Pro, Mac Pro = Texas Instruments
iMac, Macbook = non Texas Instruments
This results in the audio users and some video, having major problems.
What I don't get is how some fail to read between the lines.
The first macbook all the way to LEOPARD release you could never play a 3D game on a Macbook but as barefeats.com and others reported, you could run MOTION, and other high end 3D applications. So, Apple seeing this, re-released the MACBOOK with X300 which made the ability to run these apps MOOT - why? The pro is onlt 1% of the market share.
So we can see, Apple wants you to buy PRO if you run PRO apps - even though the pro would buy both and use the MB as a field machine - still, Apple marketing, Jobs dictate, doesn't allow it, their marketing is paranoid, just like Jobs.
This time around with new macbook and glossy macbook pro, with emphasis on former, no firewire hurts more than the PRO, almost every indie musician has firewire audio gear, USB audio interfaces are very very SOUNDBLASTER quality whereas 1394 is used on much higher end audio devices, but not out of reach, in other words, $700 not $2500 audio devices (but they do exist) and on top of that, mom and pop users with iMovie can no longer use the Macbook due to the lack of firewire.
But read between the lines, again, its all about Apple greed and paranoia, the new macbooks have GPU that can run PRO apps flawlessly but apple is being paranoid and thinks that the PROS would buy this machine while failing to realize that many more are affected this time around then the last time when they released the X300 as MOM and POP consumers are much larger than the PRO market that got bummed when X300 came out.
I think apple has to bite the bullet and realize that if they release the macbook with firewire, sure, the pro will buy it but they will also buy (PRO USER) a higher end system plus sales from consumers will be huge.
If this doesn't happen, Apple has really lost it - the only other thing I can see, which seems plausible and fair, is a 13.3 Macbook Pro for $1499. Good price point, express slot, firewire. For audio, this would be a good machine.
With regard to iMac and GLOSSY only, the iMACS were much slower at the time compared to macbook pro and G5's but were still used in drafting houses, graphic companies, now, the glossy is a real strong machine. However if you print from the MATTE and then from the GLOSSY, the MATTE us much more accurate than the glossy. I have consulted for Apple and printed many projects for potential clients and showed them first hand and it was night and day, MATTE is much more accurate than the glossy, but apple won't release matte this days.
Its sort of scary in a way. Think about it, new displays are $899, all glossy, macbook pro, all glossy, either they have something planned for mac world (matte is just as bright, have had both LED gloss/matte), or they are really losing it.
Again, we have to hope that Apple has a 13.3 macbook pro machine for $1499 but they should release the macbook with a statement that they listened to the consumer and at the same time a mini that is more than adequate for strong GPU, firewire.
If this doesn't happen, apple is in trouble in my humble opinion.
I love APPLE, I really do, but the thing is, today's mac user is a switcher and these days, many are past tweakers, tech persons and we know more than the apple genius folks. Apple bar, as I have 5+ genius friends, could not tell you about FSB, voltage on the CPU, how to install bootcamp (recent) with tiger if you want (ask me, I will post directions) and do basic trouble shooting, mostly ipods and send out the machines back to cuppertino for serious repairs.
C'mon Apple, do the right thing, stop worrying about a small percentage of pro's using the macbook and realize that the consumer and indie musicians (hundreds of thousands) are lost now without the firewire. You will make MORE sales if you release the firewire. It's a no brainer.
Prove that anything "prosumer" will not be USB based or have USB functionality.
The funny thing here is that over 2 years ago I helped show a woman with a low-end miniDV cam how to take video off her camera. You know what it had? USB 2.0 and no Firewire. She said she had it for more than a year.
I plugged the cable into my notebook at that time and Windows recognized it as a mass storage device and I just did a drag and drop for the video on to the desktop and showed her how to make her home movies into DVDs.
Sony only does what Sony wants and doesn't care about the consumers.
No. Whats stupid is complaining about Firewire being gone when it was essentially useless for nearly all users.
Go walk into your local Best Buy, Walmart, Target, Circuit City and see how many of those cameras do NOT have USB. Go ahead. You know why I say those four stores? Because thats where the MAJORITY of people buy their equipment. You'll be lucky to find a camera that actually has Firewire as an OPTION.
You mean in the last ~5 years. Not 12 to 18 months. Again, as I said, you have to remember that the vast majority of PCs never had and never will have Firewire. USB 2.0 has been around for more than half a decade now with every motherboard and OEM PC in that time shipping with multiple USB 2.0 ports.
If you're in the business making video cameras in that time, what are you going to do? Use an interface that will eliminate a good 90% or more of your market or just put in a good USB 2.0 controller, tack that cost into the cost of the camera, and sell it to EVERYONE?
Exactly.
And I know that there are people on the other side of the isle. I'm personal friends with many musicians with actual published albums that made their music on Windows PCs with no Firewire. Amazing, eh?
What? Have you used the new MacBook?
Thanks to the new GPU in it the new MacBook is finally functional as something other than a light browsing an emailing machine. It's far more capable and "functional" than any of the plastic MacBooks ever were.
And if you were to go outside of the regular Apple forums and run polls asking people how often they use Firewire, I guarantee you that more than 90% would say they've never used it and, most likely, never even had a Firewire port on any of the computers they've owned.
Removing Firewire doesn't remove functionality when you consider that it was never a function for the majority of people out there and its become largely irrelevant anyway.
The OP did have one valid point in that the more recent Firewire chipsets used by Apple have been of very low quality and caused problems anyway.
Better to just do away with it all together. What Apple should do is get rid of the ethernet jack , space the ports better, and put in eSATA.
On paper the X3100 was better than the GMA 950.
In real world performance, thanks to Intel's Windows drivers and Apple's OS X drivers, the X3100 performed about half as "good" as the GMA 950.
You mean the X3100.
The aluminum MacBook is far more capable than the previous white MacBooks. Especially when it comes to video and 3D capabilities.
It's funny that you mention Sound Blaster because E-Mu systems equipment is all USB 2.0 based.
Likewise, M-Audio makes USB versions of their high end audio recording and mixing equipment.
Again, MiniDV cams and basically all digital video cameras from the last half decade have been USB 2.0 capable or USB 2.0 only.
As I said in another post, you can't compare matte screens to printed paper. They are two completely different mediums. One generates its own light, color, and image while the other relies on ambient lighting and other conditions.
Technically speaking, glossy outperforms matte due to more realistic colors, deeper blacks, and the fact that, unlike matte, glossy does NOT distort the image.
Thats not true either. High end professional level recording equipment is available in USB form.
And actually, they'll get more sales by shrinking the size of the system and including USB. Have you been to the Apple site and have you seen how Apple pushes the MacBook's USB connectivity to your "digital lifestyle", such as cameras, iPods, iPhones, external storage devices, etc?
Even Apple realizes that Firewire is irrelevant.
Apple doesn't really have a choice when it comes to graphics for the MacBook, they're limited by the amount of space for the motherboard and, because of Apple's obsession with thin, there's not much motherboard space to work with. Therefore until the current MacBooks, Apple had to use whatever integrated solution Intel had. Apple recognized that Intel's GMA wasn't up to snuff. Why else would Apple switch to an NVIDIA-made chipset with NVIDIA's integrated graphics instead of Intel's X4500?
C'mon Apple, do the right thing, stop worrying about a small percentage of pro's using the macbook and realize that the consumer and indie musicians (hundreds of thousands) are lost now without the firewire. You will make MORE sales if you release the firewire. It's a no brainer.
There are plenty of USB-based solutions out there for music. Are they as good as FireWire-based ones? Not necessarily. But they exist, and there is still that functionality.
You really need to read what you're saying and ease up on the caps lock key.
Thats not true.
Have you seen the Apple TV? It's an entire computer in a ridiculously thin and small enclosure.
It has dedicated graphics.
Theres really absolutely no reason Apple can't put dedicated graphics in the MacBook.
It's just a matter of them not making as much money and people realizing "hey! $1,999 for a GeForce 9600M GT really is twice as much as it should be!"
MiniDV is tape based and uses FW to transfer video real time.
There is no file to transfer/copy, per se.
Incorrect.
Suggest that you learn about the two interfaces and how they work before you make statements such as this.
Incorrect.
Most current PC desktops and laptops have FW capability.
That would be nice.
In your face aggressive posting style?
Anyway, there is a clear difference, those threads that you mentioned (such as reviews and "hey i just got a _____") almost always contain useful information for people.
These threads serve absolutely no purpose other than to rally up the troops to complain. If you don't like something whine to apple about it, don't start a thread that will go no where other than seeing who agrees with the topic.
Internet badass? You clearly have no idea of who I am.
simply put a pro sticker on your hackintosh and you will have firewire on an aluminum computer running OS X
Yes miniDV is tape based.
However, the cameras I've played with have all shown up as USB mass storage and allowed me to pull videos off.
It is tape but video is stored as digital files on that tape. You don't "record" or transfer in real time. It pulls video off as fast as it can be read.
Incorrect.
Suggest you go read benchmarks. Look up benchmarks with a PC using quality USB 2.0 controllers and a Mac with Firewire. You'll see that USB 2.0 is every bit as fast in real world situations.
Incorrect. HP dropped Firewire support from their consumer notebook lines entirely and replaced it with eSATA. They had Firewire support up until the dv5, dv4, and dv7 hit the market and they've removed Firewire from most of their other notebooks. Only their business notebooks, which have yet to be revised, have 4-pin firewire ports.
If you look at most of HP's desktops they specifically say in the specs "NO IEEE 1394".
Gateway doesn't ship Firewire on any notebook and not all of their desktops.
Dell ships 4 pin Firewire on some notebooks, not all. Same for desktops.
But most importantly, where do people buy their computers? Best Buy, Circuit City, Walmart, Frys. Go to their sites and see how many of the computers they have in stock at their stores still have Firewire.
Firewire is being phased out across the entire industry. Firewire 800 was never adopted outside of Apple and most PCs that have Firewire don't even have full size ports.
Firewire is being replaced by eSATA. You see motherboards shipping with no or one Firewire port but multiple eSATA ports. You see the largest manufacturer of PCs, HP (most of the time, sometimes Dell) replacing Firewire with eSATA in their most popular and best selling products.
Firewire is done.
Edit: also wanted to point out that theres a fair number of HD consumer cams already out or coming out that support eSATA and USB 2.0 only. What does that tell you?
This isn't kindergarten, so no need to bicker like little kids. We don't care which pokemon is better anymore!
That said this really isn't the place to argue about FW. We know it's nice to have, but Apple makes a business decision, that's that. They still make a lot of money.
That said this really isn't the place to argue about FW. We know it's nice to have, but Apple makes a business decision, that's that. They still make a lot of money.
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