Well that depends. If you have an iPhone then Apple is very strict that apps can't directly read each other's data and everything is encrypted. Of course if you have an Android phone, or use Facebook etc then it's open season.
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Windows 10 is outright spyware
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Well that depends. If you have an iPhone then Apple is very strict that apps can't directly read each other's data and everything is encrypted. Of course if you have an Android phone, or use Facebook etc then it's open season.
When was the last time you used an iPhone? When an app asks for use of external resources like location tracking, the camera roll or microphone, a dialog box pops up and you have to give it explicit permission. Not by default as you say.
I tend to agree that Win-10, as delivered from Microsoft, is spyware in a fancy wrapper.
Yes a user can opt out/turn off most of it but it takes some work. And I suspect most users will do the "Express" install and never know about the privacy issues. Or even care about them because they want all the bells and whistles that come with not turning off the invasive behavior of the OS.
Windows 10 is spying on almost everything you do – here’s how to opt out
http://bgr.com/2015/07/31/windows-10-upgrade-spying-how-to-opt-out/
This excerpt from the Win-10 privacy statement bothers me personally....
Yes it does go on to say they will only do it when "they" feel it's needed or required by law enforcement. But "private folders".....really. I can only think of one way they would have access to my private folders and that is to have remote access to those folders. And Microsoft appears to be able to do that based on the above statement........That sure sounds like spyware to me.
Regarding the law enforcement disclosure request as one reason to give up user data. All Microsoft needs to do is encrypt all cloud based data and set it up so they do not have a way to decrypt the data. That way if they get a request the most they could do is turn over a bunch of encrypted data.
Apple and Google have been catching a lot of heat from the US government and law enforcement for going down that path and so far, if we can believe them, they are standing by their commitment of encrypting user data and not being able to decrypt that data. But as far as I know Microsoft has not taken that position (someone correct me if I'm wrong).
Just my 0.02 worth,
Jon...
Yes a user can opt out/turn off most of it but it takes some work. And I suspect most users will do the "Express" install and never know about the privacy issues. Or even care about them because they want all the bells and whistles that come with not turning off the invasive behavior of the OS.
Windows 10 is spying on almost everything you do – here’s how to opt out
http://bgr.com/2015/07/31/windows-10-upgrade-spying-how-to-opt-out/
This excerpt from the Win-10 privacy statement bothers me personally....
"Finally, we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary...."
Yes it does go on to say they will only do it when "they" feel it's needed or required by law enforcement. But "private folders".....really. I can only think of one way they would have access to my private folders and that is to have remote access to those folders. And Microsoft appears to be able to do that based on the above statement........That sure sounds like spyware to me.
Regarding the law enforcement disclosure request as one reason to give up user data. All Microsoft needs to do is encrypt all cloud based data and set it up so they do not have a way to decrypt the data. That way if they get a request the most they could do is turn over a bunch of encrypted data.
Apple and Google have been catching a lot of heat from the US government and law enforcement for going down that path and so far, if we can believe them, they are standing by their commitment of encrypting user data and not being able to decrypt that data. But as far as I know Microsoft has not taken that position (someone correct me if I'm wrong).
Just my 0.02 worth,
Jon...
All options that concern our privacy should be opt-in and turned off by default, not the other way around.
It's not easily turned off.
It is on by default
OS X and iOS explicitly ask to turn this stuff on, and it is easily turned off without having to log into a website and navigate a bunch of poorly worded control panel applets.
I completely agree. Unfortunately that's not the case for most vendors these days. And from a business point I understand it. But with all the spying that has been going on, and will continue to go on, that business model needs to change. Sadly, until the majority of consumers start refusing to buy products that force them to opt-out, instead of opt-in, nothing will change.
I agree, Apple is a lot better about informing consumers about this stuff. There are still a few things that are turned on by default (some of the iCloud stuff for example) but as you said, at least it's easy to get to and turn off. Or to just decline in the first place.
Jon…
There is a big difference of Apple being from California which has just as tough privacy/data sharing/Credit Reporting laws like Texas, as much as many people like bashing Google for customized ads they're bound to CA laws too. Microsoft is from Washington, state laws are different and unless WA lawmakers go into CA/TX style moves they'll do anything in the name of innovation with marketing being their driving force. Microsoft has been investigated by the EU for certain things tied to Windows 8.1 such as MS Account requirement and how Bing needed to allow users more control of clearing/stopping the logging of search history.
Microsoft for years has bashed Google via Scroogle ad campaign to push Live Search/Bing Search and worst of all they were the ones who bought that evil ad company called "DoubleClick". Windows 10 setup is sneaky with privacy settings of opt-in as default, if anyone has used ChromeOS they're defaulted to "Opt-Out" and even well known security experts give Google credit for it. Like it or not the direction of Microsoft is turning Windows into a Smart-Appliance type OS, they want to turn it into what Android did for TV/cheap tablets/media boxes and the bigger question is will Windows 11 push data mining to more levels than Win8/10.
I don't have a problem with Windows 10 as I can use either a local account to avoid MS services/adware(blocked with a HOSTS file) and a MS account for OneDrive/OneNote usage. Worst case Microsoft marketing sees photos of cats, food, music recording sessions and useless OneNote neurology/medical articles.
Microsoft for years has bashed Google via Scroogle ad campaign to push Live Search/Bing Search and worst of all they were the ones who bought that evil ad company called "DoubleClick". Windows 10 setup is sneaky with privacy settings of opt-in as default, if anyone has used ChromeOS they're defaulted to "Opt-Out" and even well known security experts give Google credit for it. Like it or not the direction of Microsoft is turning Windows into a Smart-Appliance type OS, they want to turn it into what Android did for TV/cheap tablets/media boxes and the bigger question is will Windows 11 push data mining to more levels than Win8/10.
I don't have a problem with Windows 10 as I can use either a local account to avoid MS services/adware(blocked with a HOSTS file) and a MS account for OneDrive/OneNote usage. Worst case Microsoft marketing sees photos of cats, food, music recording sessions and useless OneNote neurology/medical articles.
Turns out you can't really "just turn it off": http://arstechnica.com/information-...ndows-10-just-cant-stop-talking-to-microsoft/
I rest my case...
I rest my case...
Correct, I don't pay any attention to iOS news. Plus I wasn't even a member here when iOS 7 came out.
It's a discussion about privacy. I think it's really hard to don't store some private data when you want to meet the customers expectations ( wireless syncing of devices wherever they are, location services, social media, voice assistants, ... ) . Learning about what individuals are interested in to provide better services, etc.
IMO confidential data should not be stored on computers connected to the Internet and not in any kind of Cloud, problem solved. I have no confidential data.
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The strange thing is that aside from Cortana using all the same things (Onedrive, ...) in 8.1 delivers just the same amount of data to microsoft. And Cortana needs data to be useful. There is just no point to it otherwise.
Naturally MS uses an opt-out strategy. Everyone would because otherwise feature would not work, or they never got useful error data.
The were upfront about it and laid out in more detail than other companies what and how they use data. Google is far more closed mouthed and connects data far more from different sources. Apple is also not exactly a model of being upfront about such practices. MS collects data and they tried to get around a scandal by just stating it clearly and now everyone is upset. If they had just done it and not said anything more than previously, people would probably complain less. It is not like a company can really do right by people.
A product like Windows 10 does not work without collecting data. You can use it in a limited way and give them less data in return but I don't see why that should be the default. They made it free and get closer to Google's practices and make money by selling their other services through Windows 10. One can complain about that development but then again people can abandon Windows today much easier than ever before and use SteamOS or other distros, but Mircosoft is upfront about their plans and what Win 10 does/is which is something to commend.
Naturally MS uses an opt-out strategy. Everyone would because otherwise feature would not work, or they never got useful error data.
The were upfront about it and laid out in more detail than other companies what and how they use data. Google is far more closed mouthed and connects data far more from different sources. Apple is also not exactly a model of being upfront about such practices. MS collects data and they tried to get around a scandal by just stating it clearly and now everyone is upset. If they had just done it and not said anything more than previously, people would probably complain less. It is not like a company can really do right by people.
A product like Windows 10 does not work without collecting data. You can use it in a limited way and give them less data in return but I don't see why that should be the default. They made it free and get closer to Google's practices and make money by selling their other services through Windows 10. One can complain about that development but then again people can abandon Windows today much easier than ever before and use SteamOS or other distros, but Mircosoft is upfront about their plans and what Win 10 does/is which is something to commend.
The other differences are that Apple is a hardware, services AND software company, and they make money (lots of it - their margins are well known to be over 35-40%) through people paying them for their hardware and services.
The OS is merely a vehicle to drive you to their hardware and services.
Microsoft doesn't sell any real quantity of hardware. Neither does google. Neither has any real services you pay for. No/very little money via hardware (thin margins, not a significant market share), free services... where does the money come from?
Other than enterprise software licensing....
They make money via targeted advertising - their entire business model is predicated on extracting as much personal information out of you as possible in order to better target marketing at you.
That's the big difference.
I'm happy to pay apple's margins in order to not have myself be the product.
edit:
And i don't use one-drive or any MS-account bound services on my copy of 8.1 either. For the same reasons. The only thing my 8.1 box does is play games, i don't store any personal data on it.
Steve Gibson was just talking about that article this week on the Security Now Podcast (Episode # 521). His Win-10 comments start at about 42 min's into the podcast.
Side note: The Security Now podcast's are on iTunes for anyone that's interested.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/security-now-mp3/id79016499?mt=2
Anyway, regarding Win-10 privacy issues….
I think the following comment that was posted in the comments section for the article you linked to is worth sharing here…
==========
DelicieuxzSmack-Fu Master, in training reply10 days ago
The Windows 10 EULA and Microsoft's Privacy Statement declare that Microsoft will access and use the content of people's emails and other files, such as documents uploaded to One Drive, according to Microsoft's discretion. "Share with our partners" also includes law enforcement, wherever Microsoft deems required. And I think Microsoft cannot ignore any instance which they feel should be forwarded to law enforcement without making themselves complicit in any potential criminal activity.
Windows 10's all-your-contents-are-belongs-to-us policy is also a widening of the backdoor which law enforcement asks OS manufacturer to build into their systems.
Basically, Microsoft's Windows 10 EULA claims that all files used in Windows 10 may be accessed, searched, and contents utilized by Microsoft, with Microsoft exercizing sole discretion over what it will access, and how it will be used.
I think all businesses, content creators, and even nations should be dismayed at this. It looks like Russia already is concerned with Windows 10's always-on espionage against its users:
http://www.rt.com/politics/312172-windo ... ent-stirs/
If people will recall, Microsoft was previously found to be snooping in people's Outlook emails, and this discovery caused a furor among people, leading to Microsoft saying they would not do this anymore:
http://www.wired.com/2014/03/microsoft_vigilante/1
http://www.theverge.com/2014/3/20/55314 ... l-policies2
But now, Microsoft has made it a guaranteed policy of Windows 10 that they will always do this:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/privacy ... fault.aspx
"Content. We collect content of your files and communications when necessary to provide you with the services you use. This includes: the content of your documents, photos, music or video you upload to a Microsoft service such as OneDrive. It also includes the content of your communications sent or received using Microsoft services, such as the:
- subject line and body of an email,
- text or other content of an instant message,
- audio and video recording of a video message, and
- audio recording and transcript of a voice message you receive or a text message you dictate."
Shouldn't there be a much bigger furor over the discretionless snooping of Windows 10, which includes all Outlook emails, than there was over just Outlook on its own?
Are people OK with their PCs contents no longer being their sole domain and in their privacy, but instead being fully open to Microsoft?
I'm not. I'll be sticking with Windows 7 for now.
Windows 10's motto: Your System is not Your Own
Last edited by Delicieuxz on Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:28 am
The Windows 10 EULA and Microsoft's Privacy Statement declare that Microsoft will access and use the content of people's emails and other files, such as documents uploaded to One Drive, according to Microsoft's discretion. "Share with our partners" also includes law enforcement, wherever Microsoft deems required. And I think Microsoft cannot ignore any instance which they feel should be forwarded to law enforcement without making themselves complicit in any potential criminal activity.
Windows 10's all-your-contents-are-belongs-to-us policy is also a widening of the backdoor which law enforcement asks OS manufacturer to build into their systems.
Basically, Microsoft's Windows 10 EULA claims that all files used in Windows 10 may be accessed, searched, and contents utilized by Microsoft, with Microsoft exercizing sole discretion over what it will access, and how it will be used.
I think all businesses, content creators, and even nations should be dismayed at this. It looks like Russia already is concerned with Windows 10's always-on espionage against its users:
http://www.rt.com/politics/312172-windo ... ent-stirs/
If people will recall, Microsoft was previously found to be snooping in people's Outlook emails, and this discovery caused a furor among people, leading to Microsoft saying they would not do this anymore:
http://www.wired.com/2014/03/microsoft_vigilante/1
http://www.theverge.com/2014/3/20/55314 ... l-policies2
But now, Microsoft has made it a guaranteed policy of Windows 10 that they will always do this:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/privacy ... fault.aspx
"Content. We collect content of your files and communications when necessary to provide you with the services you use. This includes: the content of your documents, photos, music or video you upload to a Microsoft service such as OneDrive. It also includes the content of your communications sent or received using Microsoft services, such as the:
- subject line and body of an email,
- text or other content of an instant message,
- audio and video recording of a video message, and
- audio recording and transcript of a voice message you receive or a text message you dictate."
Shouldn't there be a much bigger furor over the discretionless snooping of Windows 10, which includes all Outlook emails, than there was over just Outlook on its own?
Are people OK with their PCs contents no longer being their sole domain and in their privacy, but instead being fully open to Microsoft?
I'm not. I'll be sticking with Windows 7 for now.
Windows 10's motto: Your System is not Your Own
Last edited by Delicieuxz on Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:28 am
==========
The more I read and hear about Win-10 the more I'm convinced it was designed for spying and collecting data on the population.
Jon…
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The funny thing is that Apple fans always find something to talk bad about MS, even when they don't know any facts. On the other hand, many MS users just have what they need and would never argue why OSX or iOS could be bad, they just let Apple be Apple and their users do the beloved 3 or 4 finger gestures 
.
MS would never implement privacy / security in a way which could be a showstopper for their enterprise clients. And yes, privacy must be configured as it must be done in OSX and iOS.
After using W10 for 3 weeks now I am very satisfied with this OS so far and I wish all OSX users that they may get a comparable quality and functionality with the next upcoming OSX release.
.MS would never implement privacy / security in a way which could be a showstopper for their enterprise clients. And yes, privacy must be configured as it must be done in OSX and iOS.
After using W10 for 3 weeks now I am very satisfied with this OS so far and I wish all OSX users that they may get a comparable quality and functionality with the next upcoming OSX release.
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This isn't anything new.
Being a lifelong user of Apple products I spent too much time being angry at them and BG in particular. But then as a techie I found very little Mac work or need for work on Mac side and got Windows certified precisely because I knew it was crap and people pay to have you fix their Windows mess. Money made from that paid for everything else. But on the larger level I think Apple saw that MS wasn't the best stuff but had the best business model (crazy profit margins and blitzkreig marketing) and that sheer MS aggressiveness that most other companies were using became something Apple finally figured out would work with launch of iPod. The rest is history.
MS is a very smart company and if I were them knowing money is coming from X Box, Office, tablets, and other sources, I would continue what has worked until uncle sam actually considers this wrong. Putting Windows out for free is for leverage and could work well the way IE for free worked in early days. With issues with instability in Vista and unfamiliarity with Windows 8 puzzling former Windows users, it won't make sense for Microsoft to ever charge for their OS again because they have lost too much market share over those blunders.
The main reason for an OS these days is to introduce new users to your company and then charge them for other stuff. The OS is fancy advertising and nothing more.
Yes, MS was slammed for asking too many questions on registration of stuff in beginning and then selling off info but that's a whole different level of wrong and it was put to a stop.
Home versions of Windows should always be free, professional versions very cheap, and a still affordable suite of server versions lest they lose any more ground to all the UNIX/Linux free and low cost enterprise solutions. All this doesn't change that what MS does is dubious but if that's the market standard of getting things done, and the government isn't prosecuting, then there's a green light to spy and sell, spy and sell.
Being a lifelong user of Apple products I spent too much time being angry at them and BG in particular. But then as a techie I found very little Mac work or need for work on Mac side and got Windows certified precisely because I knew it was crap and people pay to have you fix their Windows mess. Money made from that paid for everything else. But on the larger level I think Apple saw that MS wasn't the best stuff but had the best business model (crazy profit margins and blitzkreig marketing) and that sheer MS aggressiveness that most other companies were using became something Apple finally figured out would work with launch of iPod. The rest is history.
MS is a very smart company and if I were them knowing money is coming from X Box, Office, tablets, and other sources, I would continue what has worked until uncle sam actually considers this wrong. Putting Windows out for free is for leverage and could work well the way IE for free worked in early days. With issues with instability in Vista and unfamiliarity with Windows 8 puzzling former Windows users, it won't make sense for Microsoft to ever charge for their OS again because they have lost too much market share over those blunders.
The main reason for an OS these days is to introduce new users to your company and then charge them for other stuff. The OS is fancy advertising and nothing more.
Yes, MS was slammed for asking too many questions on registration of stuff in beginning and then selling off info but that's a whole different level of wrong and it was put to a stop.
Home versions of Windows should always be free, professional versions very cheap, and a still affordable suite of server versions lest they lose any more ground to all the UNIX/Linux free and low cost enterprise solutions. All this doesn't change that what MS does is dubious but if that's the market standard of getting things done, and the government isn't prosecuting, then there's a green light to spy and sell, spy and sell.
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I think Red Hat is $1000 per seat per year and suse is close behind that's not a low cost Linux solution for enterprise but it keeps growing.