etoiles said:
I'll have to try it at the Apple Store retail, but some complain that the 12" is too small for 1024x768. I would think that 20" at 1680x1050 would not be much different.
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WWDC: New LCD Displays
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I'll have to try it at the Apple Store retail, but some complain that the 12" is too small for 1024x768. I would think that 20" at 1680x1050 would not be much different.
Please do not compare the price of 19" displays to the 20" Apple display. 19" displays have a low resolution of 1280x1024 (just like 17" displays) = nowhere near 1680x1050. Thanks.
iloveMac said:I was slobbering as I was reading the new specs on the 30" cinema display. I did notice one thing though. The new Dual DVI graphics card caught everyone in this forum by surprise. Not one person mention the new card. Apple done it to us again.
I'm sorry, but I DID mention that the current MAC cards were not able to produce such a res. but heck.. nobody wanted to listen to me then
Besides, PEOPLE listen: Go and Look for a monitor with the SAME or BETTER specs for the price Apple offers. And then come and complain about the price!!
I went to look at Sony, Nec, Viewsonic, Philips, Lacie, Dell and others and there was NOT A SINGLE screen that matches Price/performance. Heck, the sony 23" was even 2599$ for less brightness, respondtime and contrast!!! that's less for More! Go check things out first before you rant about the prices..
DTphonehome said:
The key is not some of us whining. It is that we want to spend our money with Apple, but not be robbed by Apple. The 20" pricing seems to be the most out of touch with reality.
If I were staying with my PB, the USB 2.0 and FW400 ports are sweet. But one can get a wide-screen LCD TV that can serve as a monitor from Viewsonic for under $700.
And I wonder when the lawsuits will start over Steve's comments that they use only the best LCD panels, that the other manufacturers use the leftovers.
madetheswitch99 said:
um. . . could you pick me one up too? id settle for a 20" instead of the 23". . . and maybe even the 1.8 isntead of the 2.5. that is if you would be kind enough to get one for me as well
man i need to get a new major. . . i dont think ill ever make enough money as a mechanical engineer to spend more than 6gs on a computer. (probably no more than 2 for that matter). i know i will never be able to at my current job . . . a mechanical engineer intern
psycho bob said:
Dual Link doesn't mean it takes two cables to attach to a single monitor to work. Not even with the 30 inch monitor. Each single DVI connector is either a single link or a dual link. Single Link means it carries a maximum of 1600x1200 while dual link drives a much higher pixel count, i.e. 2560 x 1600. You have dual connections, and both are dual link DVI, so you can attach two 30" displays if you want.
You need this new card, because you need a dual link DVI connection to drive the big monitor. Older cards use Single Link DVI.
Hope that clears things up for you.
Disgustingly one-sided release.
The new displays are nice and everything, but Apple does really suck for not putting out an G5-based iMac. Although I'm not in the market for an iMac, it doesn't really have anything positive to say for Apple's R/D team, when all that they have to offer are just new displays.
I mean c'mon. As of today, the G5 has been out for a year and still no other machine with a G5, even a single G5! Now, this does pose the question, about a previous thread referencing nearly depleted iMacs; they could be around the corner.
No iMac G5, no new iPod with photo/video capabilities?! I don't think SJ has been taking his testosterone supplements, where are his cojones?!
These updates are lame! What is up with Apple?
Tiger being 64-bit is great news, but shipping at the first HALF of 2005? What is going on?
I guess this will have to do, since going back to Micro$sux is NOT an option. Mac users have once again taken it up the dérière without any Vaseline.
The new displays are nice and everything, but Apple does really suck for not putting out an G5-based iMac. Although I'm not in the market for an iMac, it doesn't really have anything positive to say for Apple's R/D team, when all that they have to offer are just new displays.
I mean c'mon. As of today, the G5 has been out for a year and still no other machine with a G5, even a single G5! Now, this does pose the question, about a previous thread referencing nearly depleted iMacs; they could be around the corner.
No iMac G5, no new iPod with photo/video capabilities?! I don't think SJ has been taking his testosterone supplements, where are his cojones?!
These updates are lame! What is up with Apple?
Tiger being 64-bit is great news, but shipping at the first HALF of 2005? What is going on?
I guess this will have to do, since going back to Micro$sux is NOT an option. Mac users have once again taken it up the dérière without any Vaseline.
Chip NoVaMac said:
[squint] porbably the same people who complain that newspaper print is getting smaller and smaller...
[\squint]seriously though, I have been using 1600x1200 on a 20" CRT (smaller than 20"lcd) for a while without problems...
blorp said:This is real life, buddy. A normal, sane person would not drop down $9000 (CAD) for a computer and moniter.
A normal, sane person knows the difference between what he needs, and what he wants. Not everyone NEEDS a 30" display and the fastest computer. If they do need it, chances are they make enough money to pay for it.
Quit whining, everyone. I wonder how many people complaining about the price were actually in the market to buy a display anyway.
// narco
Don't feed the troll
Ignore the troll who managed to steal some screenshots. He entertained us, and now his childishness has been reported to moderators. Feel sorry for him, but don't waste your time on him.
Back on topic... I'm glad the reports were wrong that said you needed TWO graphics boards to run the 30"
EDIT: that misunderstanding must have come from the double-thick form factor explained below
Ignore the troll who managed to steal some screenshots. He entertained us, and now his childishness has been reported to moderators. Feel sorry for him, but don't waste your time on him.
Back on topic... I'm glad the reports were wrong that said you needed TWO graphics boards to run the 30"
EDIT: that misunderstanding must have come from the double-thick form factor explained below
Say goodbye to a pci133 slot
Interesting fact. After spending 4 large on your new 30" monitor and nVidia 6800 card you lose a pci133 slot. The following is quoted from a caption in the Apple store at
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?productLearnMore=M9593G/A
Special note on the NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra: due to size of this advanced graphics card, the adjacent PCI or PCI-X slot will be blocked and cannot be used. This reduces the number of available PCI or PCI-X slots from three to two.
Interesting fact. After spending 4 large on your new 30" monitor and nVidia 6800 card you lose a pci133 slot. The following is quoted from a caption in the Apple store at
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?productLearnMore=M9593G/A
Special note on the NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra: due to size of this advanced graphics card, the adjacent PCI or PCI-X slot will be blocked and cannot be used. This reduces the number of available PCI or PCI-X slots from three to two.
Macs are cheaper than they are.
There is no price comparison when you consider total cost of ownership---cost, usability, maintenance, longevity, security and so on. Macintosh is always the least expensive way to go. Apple builds very machines.
nsb3000 said:
There is no price comparison when you consider total cost of ownership---cost, usability, maintenance, longevity, security and so on. Macintosh is always the least expensive way to go. Apple builds very
machines.
WWDC not the ONLY way Apple can release a product
Obvious trolling. Apple has no reason to release anything on this date (a developer conference!)--they can choose next week or whenever the time is right. Why does Apple owe you a G5 iMac you won't buy today vs. any other day? Because some rumor site told you 6/28 was Apple's only choice and you believed it?
Borg3of5 said:
Obvious trolling. Apple has no reason to release anything on this date (a developer conference!)--they can choose next week or whenever the time is right. Why does Apple owe you a G5 iMac you won't buy today vs. any other day?
Because some rumor site told you 6/28 was Apple's only choice and you believed it?
Borg3of5 said:
If you're not in the market for a G5-iMac, then why are you complaining? New displays are a big thing, the G5 was just updated, what else do you want? The video-iPod? At a Developer's conference? What is there to develop on the iPod?
I've been a Mac user for 10 years, and I definitely don't feel like I've been taken up the rear-end. If you want something with a G5 in it, then buy the friggin' G5. If you want a video iPod, put on a DVD and look at your television screen through the reflection on the back of the iPod.
//narco
Borg3of5 said:
So you own a G3 800 MHz and you are complaining about the lack of a G5 in the iMac. You complain about the OS being more 64 bit capable by 2005 as an issue? You're not exactly using the most advanced technology as it is now, so what difference does it make to you. What application do you use now that requires 64 bit?
Typing stupid messages on the web and in chat must really require some high end hardware huh....
Chip NoVaMac said:
then go get those viewsonics.
apple's not "forcing" you to spend your money. it's your choice. just because one company makes such and such doesn't mean apple has to. apple has reasons for its product offerings and prices and so do all other companies. if apple doesn't offer what you want, don't buy apple's stuff.
and people screamed bloody murder when iPod Mini came out. "geez, what kind of idiot would spend $250 on a 4 GB mp3 player when you can get a rio 20 GB for $50 more?!" well, apparently, a lot of people.
A load of pants!!
These displays are the biggest load of pants I've seen Apple produce in quite some time.
First of all they dump their own ADC in favour of DVI using the marketing drivel 'Industry Standard' - ah yes, you've finally realised NOT to keep inventing connectors that no one else can use, and then go backwards by reverting back to DVI. Call this innovation?
Then they somehow think PC users are going to buy Apple monitors, because they are now PC Compatible. - Er, don't you realise that PC users vote with their wallets, and are not lured by the marketing hype us Apple fanatics are drawn in by. - Why buy 2 PC LCD monitors when you can buy 1 Apple monitor for the same price?
Even I, as an Apple loyalist can't stretch to an Apple Cinema Display - I'm still skint after forking out for my G5...
How much money to Apple think us humble designers earn? Surely not enough to pay more than £5000 (UK Sterling) every couple of years on a new Computer. The Steve Jobs reality distortion field is really kicking in now.
These displays are the biggest load of pants I've seen Apple produce in quite some time.
First of all they dump their own ADC in favour of DVI using the marketing drivel 'Industry Standard' - ah yes, you've finally realised NOT to keep inventing connectors that no one else can use, and then go backwards by reverting back to DVI. Call this innovation?
Then they somehow think PC users are going to buy Apple monitors, because they are now PC Compatible. - Er, don't you realise that PC users vote with their wallets, and are not lured by the marketing hype us Apple fanatics are drawn in by. - Why buy 2 PC LCD monitors when you can buy 1 Apple monitor for the same price?
Even I, as an Apple loyalist can't stretch to an Apple Cinema Display - I'm still skint after forking out for my G5...
How much money to Apple think us humble designers earn? Surely not enough to pay more than £5000 (UK Sterling) every couple of years on a new Computer. The Steve Jobs reality distortion field is really kicking in now.
Ge4-ce said:
well, i actually like the new apple monitors quite a bit, and will likely get a new 20"er. But there other monitors that compare favorably. How about these, just to name 2:
Formac 2010 -
20", 1600x1200
170 degree viewing angle
250 nits brightness
600:1 contrast ratio
guarantee of no more than 2 dead pixels - or you get a new one.
$1300
Sony -
20", 1600x1200
170 degree viewing angle
250 cd/m2
500:1
$1100
Now, before today, apple was not competitive with these offerings. After the update, I'd say the apple displays are not a rip off - they are now very comparable to other monitors at the high end of both price and performance. Sure you can get a cheap POS 19" monitor for $500 or whatever, but check the specs: 1280x1024, bad viewing angle, etc. You get what you pay for. Apple's new displays are very high quality, and they accordingly cost about as much as other top-end monitors.
The cheapest Mac that can use a 30"
Some trivia
* The cheapest 30"-ready PowerMac config you could build--with education pricing--is $2133 (that includes the 6800 board and a free printer)
* At $2999 apiece (education) you can therefore have a dual-G5 PowerMac rig with a pair of 30" displays for $8131. Additional RAM recommended
* Viewable size of the 30": 25.2 wide x 15.7" tall (Wow)
* Actual DPI: 101.65. That's slightly smaller (but brighter) text/pixels than a 15.2" AlBook, and almost exactly the DPI of an iPod
* The misleadingly-named "dual-link DVI" used by the 30" still only uses ONE cable. That's why the NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL with two ports will drive two 30" displays.
* That 8x AGP GeForce 6800 Ultra board does a lot more than permit a 30" screen. It has 256 MB VRAM, "the industry's first 16-pipe superscalar architecture and support for the world's fastest DDR3 memory," and "using over 220 million transistors it supports a 256-bit interface for an effective memory bandwidth of 35.2 GB per second which delivers 600 million vertices, 6.4 billion textured pixels per second." (From the Apple store.)
* 6.4B pixels per second is enough to draw a 30" screen (4.01 million pixels) nearly 1600 times a second.
* The GeForce 6800 is wide enough to block a PCI slot--but it's not the only one. So it the ATI Radeon 9800 XT.
Some trivia
* The cheapest 30"-ready PowerMac config you could build--with education pricing--is $2133 (that includes the 6800 board and a free printer)
* At $2999 apiece (education) you can therefore have a dual-G5 PowerMac rig with a pair of 30" displays for $8131. Additional RAM recommended
* Viewable size of the 30": 25.2 wide x 15.7" tall (Wow)
* Actual DPI: 101.65. That's slightly smaller (but brighter) text/pixels than a 15.2" AlBook, and almost exactly the DPI of an iPod
* The misleadingly-named "dual-link DVI" used by the 30" still only uses ONE cable. That's why the NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL with two ports will drive two 30" displays.
* That 8x AGP GeForce 6800 Ultra board does a lot more than permit a 30" screen. It has 256 MB VRAM, "the industry's first 16-pipe superscalar architecture and support for the world's fastest DDR3 memory," and "using over 220 million transistors it supports a 256-bit interface for an effective memory bandwidth of 35.2 GB per second which delivers 600 million vertices, 6.4 billion textured pixels per second." (From the Apple store.)
* 6.4B pixels per second is enough to draw a 30" screen (4.01 million pixels) nearly 1600 times a second.
* The GeForce 6800 is wide enough to block a PCI slot--but it's not the only one. So it the ATI Radeon 9800 XT.
I'm Game
Coming from somebody who doesn't "really" have the money to spend on a new 20" monitor, I think I may get one inspite of that. I have a G5 and a 17" screen. After using the 17" for a few days (yes i knew wwdc would most likely bring displays, i'm not upset) I just don't think that for the price the 17" is going to give me the performance that I need it to give me for the next 2 or 3 or more years while I am in school (graphic design major).
That being said, I do need a portable machine sometime early on in the school year, and if I get a new 20" I will have 447.30 to get me an iBook, 2 airport extreme cards, and a 512 stick for the iBook. Obviously, I am about 800 dollars short if I get the new 20". If I get the old one, I don't know how much they will drop but just for a laugh lets say they drop to 1069edu. I might still go with the new one.
Yes, this is a long winded post, but just to some people who can't fathom spending that kind of money on a display (and it is your right to, it is alot of $$), there are people who need displays that perform at this level who will pay (even more than they can, like me) these prices and live with the consequences even if it means shorting themselves in other areas.
Coming from somebody who doesn't "really" have the money to spend on a new 20" monitor, I think I may get one inspite of that. I have a G5 and a 17" screen. After using the 17" for a few days (yes i knew wwdc would most likely bring displays, i'm not upset) I just don't think that for the price the 17" is going to give me the performance that I need it to give me for the next 2 or 3 or more years while I am in school (graphic design major).
That being said, I do need a portable machine sometime early on in the school year, and if I get a new 20" I will have 447.30 to get me an iBook, 2 airport extreme cards, and a 512 stick for the iBook. Obviously, I am about 800 dollars short if I get the new 20". If I get the old one, I don't know how much they will drop but just for a laugh lets say they drop to 1069edu. I might still go with the new one.
Yes, this is a long winded post, but just to some people who can't fathom spending that kind of money on a display (and it is your right to, it is alot of $$), there are people who need displays that perform at this level who will pay (even more than they can, like me) these prices and live with the consequences even if it means shorting themselves in other areas.
Apple doesn't think sometime. Why would they bring these displays out and not even have them ready. So if someone buys a new G5 they have to wait for the display. At least sell the older ones until the new ones are ready.