WWDC: New LCD Displays

[reyesmac]

THANK YOU APPLE!

With these new high prices, the price I am willing to pay for an LCD from any one of their competitors (I am leaning towards the Sony) has just gone up. Paying a grand for a big ol' LCD doesn't sound so bad now. I plan to buy 2 LCD's within a year of each other and it would be easier to do that if I actually saved money when I bought them. I think Apple did not know I was planning to do that so they just left the prices the same.

 

[Spagolli94]

I fully agree. Viewsonic, here I come! Way too much premium to pay so that the design matchs my G5 which sits under my desk...

I bought a Princeton 19" a few months back I did. I wasn't going to pay twice as much for 1 more inch. While not as elegant as the Apple displays, it matches my Powerbook quite well.

 

[brittney spears]

The new monitors suck

For those of you complaining about ehe design or Dell-ness, of the new display, I have one thing to say: Can you do any better? Look, they may not be the best, or as innovative as most of us come to expect from a company like apple, but there's only so much you can do with a computer monitor.

Only so much what do you mean the old apple LCD's looked absolutly cool. there are no other monitors that even come close to the origionality that the old ones have.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Chip NoVaMac, I see some of your points however...

Here...


you argue for the general person and here...


you preach to yourself and the PB crowd you are a part of.

That being said...iMac's today would have been welcome and for those in the bigger picture (pun kinda intended...don't shoot) the new design (aluminum, mountable...) of the displays plus the fw400 ports is worth the paying the price for what you would've paid yesterday for "old" tech.

I wouldn't have bought the "old tech" unless I bought a PM G5 before the announcement. And if I were to buy for my PB, I would not pay the price for the new ones just to get an extra USB and FW port.

Now if I were to buy a PM G5, I would keep my VESA attachment LCD VA520 from Viewsonic, or buy one of the better priced third party monitors.

 

[rdrr]

30" real estate

With the price of the 30" you got to expect them to be marketed to companies...

But has anyone thought about how much desk real estate this monster takes? I don't think I can fit it into my tiny cube.

 

[Sasha-1]

With the price of the 30" you got to expect them to be marketed to companies...

But has anyone thought about how much desk real estate this monster takes? I don't think I can fit it into my tiny cube.

You'll just have to get a bigger desk!

 

[Abstract]

I'm stunned... but not by the displays, by the response of you babies.

80% of the posts in this thread amount to nothing more than "boo... I can't afford that." Guess what, this is bleeding edge.. if you don't like it take a step backwards.

Since when is $7k for the fastest machine and nicest monitor complaint worthy? This isn't pre-school, kiddies.

Agreed. What were people expecting? Were they expecting magic displays? These new displays are already better than the old displays and the frame now matches your precious G5s. No, the specs aren't the best displays in the entire world, but the 23" displays are priced competitively with others offering similar specs and size. Nobody is forcing you to buy these displays, but I'm quite surprised that so many of you whiners actually waited 6 months for a display. Seriously, they're displays. Apple doesn't have some magic wand that would allow them to make displays that offer 2x better specs that make them worth a 6 to 12 month wait.

 

[Abstract]

I'm fairly new to the Mac community...I bought my first Mac (a 2.0 PowerMac G5) last Fall. I've been waiting to buy a nice 23" display since then, I've done some price comparisons, and it looks like the new Mac displays aren't too high at all. Comparatively, the Viewsonic VP230MB is $2500 and the Sony SDM/P232 is $2100.

Are there others out there in the same class as these 3?

You're confused by the whining because you're new here. You're right, Apple's displays are competitive. People are just stressed because Apple isn't selling their displays CHEAPER than everyone else, and so they say its a ripoff when in fact its quite similarly priced to competitors.

You're looking at the situation with fresh, innocent eyes. That'll change.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

You're confused by the whining because you're new here. You're right, Apple's displays are competitive. People are just stressed because Apple isn't selling their displays CHEAPER than everyone else, and so they say its a ripoff when in fact its quite similarly priced to competitors.

You're looking at the situation with fresh, innocent eyes. That'll change.

Just that a $999 for the 20" and $1599-1699 would have been better price points overall. The 23" less so than the 20".

 

[trbeat]

This whole monitor / wwdc is crazy. People complaining about prices and products released, I can just hear the crowd now as Steve releases a new ipod, a G5 at 3Ghz, new Imac sporting a G5, Tivo Like device running OS X, Powerbooks 2 mm thick running a G5 and new monitors all at 50% previous price, oh and a new OS that doesn't suck longhorn .... "Oh what am I going to buy, so may options to many choices, thats just not fair Steve .... "

Ive been to a few Microsoft events and the best they give you is a fix to Excel 95 and an OS update in 3 years time whenever there programmers learn to program ..

Just my 2 cents ...

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

You're confused by the whining because you're new here. You're right, Apple's displays are competitive. People are just stressed because Apple isn't selling their displays CHEAPER than everyone else, and so they say its a ripoff when in fact its quite similarly priced to competitors.

You're looking at the situation with fresh, innocent eyes. That'll change.

Given that one can get a Viewsonic 17" wide-screen HDTV with monitor capabilities for $699, it is not far fetched to expect a non-HDTV 20' wide-screen for $999 from Apple.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

This whole monitor / wwdc is crazy. People complaining about prices and products released, I can just hear the crowd now as Steve releases a new ipod, a G5 at 3Ghz, new Imac sporting a G5, Tivo Like device running OS X, Powerbooks 2 mm thick running a G5 and new monitors all at 50% previous price, oh and a new OS that doesn't suck longhorn .... "Oh what am I going to buy, so may options to many choices, thats just not fair Steve .... "

Ive been to a few Microsoft events and the best they give you is a fix to Excel 95 and an OS update in 3 years time whenever there programmers learn to program ..

Just my 2 cents ...

You would rather hear grousing about no iMac G5 or a TIVO device, or new iPods?

Being a developers conference, I can't see them getting excited over doing software for a new monitor. Tiger yes, monitors no. A new iMac G5 to offer better performance for software bloat, a real YES.

 

[mania]

for those of you complaining about prices and HD not being in the 20 should look at apples requirement to use HD - a device from eCinema that costs $8000!!!

anyways i think the displays look great, are very lightweight, and are priced pretty good compared to competition but not to my wallet.

 

[frem001]

Yeah

The new displays are nice and everything, but Apple does really suck for not putting out an G5-based iMac. Although I'm not in the market for an iMac, it doesn't really have anything positive to say for Apple's R/D team, when all that they have to offer are just new displays.

I mean c'mon. As of today, the G5 has been out for a year and still no other machine with a G5, even a single G5! Now, this does pose the question, about a previous thread referencing nearly depleted iMacs; they could be around the corner.

No iMac G5, no new iPod with photo/video capabilities?! I don't think SJ has been taking his testosterone supplements, where are his cojones?!

These updates are lame! What is up with Apple?

Tiger being 64-bit is great news, but shipping at the first HALF of 2005? What is going on?

I guess this will have to do, since going back to Micro$sux is NOT an option. Mac users have once again taken it up the dérière without any Vaseline.

What pisses me off the most is when people say i don't need a g5 (yeah your g4 will do just fine blah blah blah) processor, i'm a student (therefore certain items are just out of reach even with edu discount) I use photoshop, i have a 6mp canon slr, i use cad... for me to have to wait so long for photo's to load up on iphoto or photoshop is ridiculous. My time is precious too, I need to get in and do my work without waiting for long loading times. I can't do this with items that (as perfect as they are) are so costly.... I can wait for os updates but a fast processor and good screen from the same company for a realistic price is not too much to ask. £4000 is just too much (g5 2.5ghz + 23inch). I would go some where else, but somewhere else sucks (and even if the hardware is cheaper the software will slow me down even more than a g4 with all those damn pop ups and viruses and errors and don't get me started on the **** layout)

 

[CompuDude]

Why do people insist on comparing apples to oranges? Yes, you can get 20" LCDs for under $1k... but those are not widescreen displays. Ditto for 23" displays... compare high end widescreens from Sony, Viewsonic, and others to these new 20 and 23" widescreen LCDs, and make sure you are looking at the ones with the same resolution or better, and suddenly it will be obvious that Apple's prices for these new 20 and 23" widescreen LCDs is actually right spot on with the rest of the industry. Comparing them to cheaper 20" 4:3 ratio displays is not an accurate comparison.

The 30" display is *very* expensive. It's also (a) the only game in town, and (b) frankly reasonably priced if you look to other 30" LCD displays... which currently only exist in the high end television market and which are not really suitable for use as a computer display, unlike these. Complain all you want that you can't afford a 60" plasma TV for your living room, but that doesn't stop the companies that have a real need for these displays from forking out the dough. and it does not make Samsung and others "stupid" (or any of the other colorful adjectives I've seen used in this thread) for charging what they do. Again, just because *YOU* can't afford it does not mean the company is actually trying to gouge it's customers, or for that matter, it doesn't mean the company is doing something wrong by charging a price that lets it make a profit from it's sales.

If you can't afford these displays, then you can't afford the competitive displays either. Whining about the price because you can't afford it or you would rather spend less on a cheaper, and slightly lesser, option, is just silly. Why not whine that BMW's cars are too expensive because a Ford Taurus SHO is *almost* as fast and it's all you can afford, so BMW sucks for making high end toys you can't afford. Get over it.

Finally, complaining about the video card requirement for the 30" display is just silly. There are only a couple video cards capable of cranking out the resolution this display requires. That's not Apple's fault... blaming nVidia and ATI for not making cards that can output this kind of resolution for $99. Or, realize that the display is so nice that it requires a top of the line video card to push every pixel it has to offer. Video card pricing will come down over time, but meanwhile, $600 for a top of the line end video card from either ATI or nVidia is not far from par for the course. Similar arguments apply to complaints that the card is double-wide and you lose a PCI slot. Because the same thing happens on the PC side of the fence when you use one of these top-of-the-line cards... it's ATI and nVidia's fault, not Apple's, that the only cards they currently make capable of driving such a high resolution display take up so much space.

Apples to apples, people. Remember the magic words: "Widescreen" "Dual-Link DVI" and "2560x1600 pixel resolution" (or "1920x1200"). Match apples to apples, and oranges to oranges, and THEN come back and complain... if you still can.

 

[CholEoptera36]

Who gives a rat's ___ about "widescreen" anyway. It's only good for a few certain things. Personally I find it harder to perform tasks on computers with widescreen cause it's more head moving then eye moving... if you follow that. (especially if you got in the 30" range)

 

[blackcrayon]

Who gives a rat's ___ about "widescreen" anyway. It's only good for a few certain things. Personally I find it harder to perform tasks on computers with widescreen cause it's more head moving then eye moving... if you follow that. (especially if you got in the 30" range)

I don't know about you, but my eyes are installed in my head in a "wide screen" configuration. Thank you apple for taking advantage of perhipheral vision (pun intended)

 

[ogun7]

If you can't afford these displays, then you can't afford the competitive displays either. Whining about the price because you can't afford it or you would rather spend less on a cheaper, and slightly lesser, option, is just silly. Why not whine that BMW's cars are too expensive because a Ford Taurus SHO is *almost* as fast and it's all you can afford, so BMW sucks for making high end toys you can't afford. Get over it. ...

Apples to apples, people. Remember the magic words: "Widescreen" "Dual-Link DVI" and "2560x1600 pixel resolution" (or "1920x1200"). Match apples to apples, and oranges to oranges, and THEN come back and complain... if you still can.

Thanx CompuDude. Soon we'll start hearing them complain that it's Apple's fault they don't have the money to but the crap.

Look, being a technofetishist is an expensive hobby. If you can't afford it, collect stamps.

 

[CholEoptera36]

I don't know about you, but my eyes are installed in my head in a "wide screen" configuration. Thank you apple for taking advantage of perhipheral vision (pun intended)

Lmao, Apple's not the only one with widescreen so I wasn't directing a cut on them only... All widescreen in general. It's good for movies but that's what my TV is for, without the extra money spent on a monitor doing the same. And honestly the bigger the monitor the further your icons and apps are spread apart, especially in those resolutions. How far away would you have to sit from a 50" widescreen monitor to use the computer... 10 feet maybe? like I said more head moving then eye moving...think about it. Wide screen really isn't that much of a plus to me is all I was saying, the company has nothing to do with it.

 

[reyesmac]

I think Apple might have done the right thing.

I am not talking about price, I am talking about resolution and screen space. I just might get an Apple at 1680x1050 instead of a sony at 1600 x 1200. I tried to see what the res would be like on the sony using my 19" CRT at home, they are both the same dimensions so I can get a good representation of how small the type would end up. I do not like it. The type is too small. I will need to see the Apple display in person but I think it might be better for my eyes and the way I like things to be size-wise.

 

[nsb3000]

still pricey but they are great. at least now the 17 is more affordable

The 17 did not go down in price. It has always been $699, about $300 too expensive IMO...

 

[Abstract]

You have to balance some of the specs at times to see if its worth it for you. Some may have higher contrast, but slower response times, for example.

Its hard to find a competitors display that offers the same:

-widescreen display
-contrast
-brightness
-response time (16ms!!!)
-pixel pitch
-design

as Apple LCD displays for the same price. You can say that Sony/Viewsonic offers an LCD with higher contrast/brightness for a similar price, but they don't offer something that Apple offers, whether its widescreen, design, or response time. Now, I believe that paying $500 more for design is dumb, but the other factors may be worth it for many. And since its so similarly priced, Apple's balance of spec values may be what someone is looking for. If you don't want widescreen or care if the response time is 16ms (ie: your old monitor didn't offer such a response time and you didn't notice or care), then you can go with someone elses monitor for cheaper.

Otherwise, shut yer holes and enjoy what Apple has offered. I don't walk into a Porsche dealership and complain that after 2 years, their new model Porsches haven't gotten any cheaper. Apple doesn't make these displays for my mom and dad. Those of you who think you're pro, or dabble in this software or that software, don't actually NEED the 30" display. I'm going to guess that only a few percent of MR members actually need displays of such calibre, while the rest think you do. But if you truly did require such specs, you wouldn't have flinched and would have purchased one by now. You want it, but you're unimpressed because its not priced to be a mass consumer product. But hey, neither is a Porsche.

 

[må¥å]

Displays are nice, it looks more pro than the previous models. Remember the first gen 15inch LCD from apple sort of same idea however in plastic and it had a height adjustable arm seems this generation of lcd is missing that, also missing is the option to switch from landscape to portrait view. SAD really was looking forward to that feature even though you you view 2 pages of text side-by-side.

The prices are fine for current however it will drop so if you really want one of these displays just hold off for a year to a year and a half when the industry catches up the price will drop due to competition.

Other companies that are not well known can make displays that are 20-23inches and charge less since they brand is not well known and they buy the rights just like Apple however it all has to do with design, brand, packaging, and support.

People will always complain (human nature), don't bother to respond to those posts. People will also be mistaken and a little searching on the Apple site should answer all those questions.

Now where are the matching keyboard and mouse, DAM YOU APPLE.

Hey I did say I have to complain about something hehe.

 

[Downdivx]

Lmao, Apple's not the only one with widescreen so I wasn't directing a cut on them only... All widescreen in general. It's good for movies but that's what my TV is for, without the extra money spent on a monitor doing the same. And honestly the bigger the monitor the further your icons and apps are spread apart, especially in those resolutions. How far away would you have to sit from a 50" widescreen monitor to use the computer... 10 feet maybe? like I said more head moving then eye moving...think about it. Wide screen really isn't that much of a plus to me is all I was saying, the company has nothing to do with it.

Your icons are just farther apart? If that's your complaint about a monitor this size, you don't need one. These monitors are for professionals - there is plenty of value in this big of a monitor to a graphics designer, video editor, and many other professionals who need every inch of landscape we can afford.

You have to sit far away from a 50" widescreen TV monitor because the resolution remains the same as the size gets bigger - thus you have to maintain the same distance ratio to the size of the monitor so your eyes won't see individual pixels. These monitors increase in resolution as they increase in size - so you can sit the same distance away from a 12" or a 30". You're increasing the usable real estate, not just getting a bigger monitor to brag about. I'll take a 50" monitor anyday - assuming the resolution fits the size! When Apple makes a 50" display I'll be able to have HD preview and program windows, a 3 foot timeline, color correction, vectorscope, 8 reel bins, all the available effects and transitions and who knows what else all open at the same time.

And I'm not just defending Apple here, I'm defending all big, widescreen monitors! You're not the only one out there using this monitor and assuming that you are and that no one has another use besides you is just SILLY!

W

 

[frem001]

Ok just compared prices

What pisses me off the most is when people say i don't need a g5 (yeah your g4 will do just fine blah blah blah) processor, i'm a student (therefore certain items are just out of reach even with edu discount) I use photoshop, i have a 6mp canon slr, i use cad... for me to have to wait so long for photo's to load up on iphoto or photoshop is ridiculous. My time is precious too, I need to get in and do my work without waiting for long loading times. I can't do this with items that (as perfect as they are) are so costly.... I can wait for os updates but a fast processor and good screen from the same company for a realistic price is not too much to ask. £4000 is just too much (g5 2.5ghz + 23inch). I would go some where else, but somewhere else sucks (and even if the hardware is cheaper the software will slow me down even more than a g4 with all those damn pop ups and viruses and errors and don't get me started on the **** layout)

Just checked the prices for the speakers that apple offers (logitech z680 on the logitech website) they cost £50 more than the apple store and I definatly couldn't find a screen that is comparble to the cinema dislpays... and those complaining about the resolution should read apples website... 100 pixels per inch is the perfect resolution for the eye, i agree my dad has a sony vaio with a 16 in screen and similer resolution to the 20 inch and it is really difficult to see anything... well i have cooled down and even though the displays and g5 are expensive they're ace.... the quick time pic with the keyvoard and mouse is white they may have adjusted the picture so it suits the aluminium g5 and display... shame about that... the system you get some how seems incomplete without the matching peripherals.