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WWDC: New Tiger Features

Bigger than Panther

Tiger already looks bigger than Panther was--AND with more time in between, it's an even more tempting upgrade.

If it's not worth your $129 next year when the full features are known and the final tweaks are made, then you can simply continue to enjoy Panther. Tiger as already seen is worth my $129, and I for one DO wish it was really out now and not later!

But I can tell Apple needs some time to find the right balance of "clean and Apple-like" vs. "fun and colorful" with Dashboard :rolleyes:
 
"Cupertino, start your photocopiers! Why wait 'till "first half of 2005" when you can get the original Dashboard now?"
Click to expand...

Not unless Apple's Dashboard is also going to be buggy and hog system resources. Otherwise I doubt that downloading Konfabulator today will give me the same thing that I'll be getting from Dashboard in 2005... :rolleyes:
 
Well, I can't see what automator does that cron doesn't do quite well. I guess a GUI for cron is pretty cool for GUI fans...but I'm so used to GUIs removing power to coddle weenies (on the MS side, that is) that my instinct is to reject this sort of thing. You know, GOOEY SUXXOR, only Lo5eR use GOOEY! CLI R0XX0R! Heh.
 
hm perhaps only a moderate to low update at best ...sure no new imacs (in whatever fashion) but the tiger improvements really look good (at least to me as a windows/linux user)....

-the search-thing ... really like that i wish something like that would exist for other OSs
-automator....really nice feature...scripts without typing...gotta love that...
-dashboard... nice exactly what i need and want (i have never heard of -konfubalator (sp?) so this is a no-issue for me)
-xcode 2.0....oh the picture of those class diagramms...good news(at least for a CS student looking forward to switch..)

ichat,voiceover look interesting as well..

after all this is only a preview ... but it showed some nice features...and most important stuff like "core image" are perhaps more important to a developer...that is perhaps the biggest 'new' thing
 
In regards to Launchbar style apps...

Apple's Spotlight technology is a feature of the OS that can be fully utilized by third party developers. This will only make Launchbar better, not necessarily obsolete. Kind of like how Omniweb switched to Webkit. Launchbar and the other launchers will be able to tap into this and extend it. I suspect that Konfabulator could work within the Dashboard framework and extend upon that as well. Plus Konfabulator will still have a market with pre-10.4 systems and Tiger users who prefer it over Dashboard.

And for those of you who think that the searching in Panther is good enough, then that's great. But there's no comparison between that and what Apple is promising with Tiger. This is all assuming of course that they deliver. It needs to be super fast even with 100's of gigabytes of data, otherwise it won't be useful at all for power users.

We'll find out (not) soon enough.

I already thought of a great application of Spotlight that I hope we'll see a third party create. Think of those disk cataloging programs like CD Finder and DiskTracker. They will benefit greatly from this technology. I was just recently investigating these apps looking for a good solution to that problem. I wasn't happy with any of them, but found one that worked for me for now. It'll be great to see what may come of this.


Cheers,
John
 
Boo hoo

I have never seen such a bunch of whiners in my life!! First let's get a few things straight on who stole what from who...

1) Konfab.
-Apple attempted to institute apps or "widgets" in the dock before Konfab existed. Then they tried the menu bar, now expose.
-Konfab does not offer the same feature set shown in the dashboard. Period. Sit down.
-If we're going to get down to who came first, Apple wins with.....HYPERCARD. Do you people remember? The first widget maker á la Apple.
-Konfab is run by ex-Apple employees - what inside knowledge did they steal??
-Like I care. Make a real piece of software then I'll listen when you whine that Apple just smoked you.
-Konfab is a resource pig and I will be happy to see Apple do it right.

2) LaunchBar.
-There are at least 3 other pieces of software that do the same. Where's the outcry over them.
-Launch Bar is in perma-beta and is horribly buggy IN ANY ENVIRONMENT OTHER THAN THE ONE USED BY THE DEV. At least Apple's searchlight won't crash my computer when certain apps are running.
-Launch bar is slow and a massive resource pig. It makes Konfab look awesome.
-Again, like I care. Make some real software and then I'll care.

Everyone must have expected GUI type improvements in the OS. Did you think Apple would do nothing in this area? Oh... I guess Apple will just ignore searching meta-data and desk ACCESSORIES? As to the other improvements. Panther added Exposé. Tiger is adding a whole lot of other things, things of greater substance.

As to $$ of new monitors, etc. These are pro machines. End of story. Do I care you can't afford them? No. Why? Cause they're not intended to be sold to a bunch of people who were holding out FOR NEW IMACS. They're targeted toward developers and pro users. Thank you, gg.

Quit whining.

30 Jan. 1972
 
I'm worried about the system requirements... though they aren't specific on the preview site, they do say that CoreImage will scale down to any graphics card that a Mac that can run Tiger will have...
The performance gains and features supported by Core Image ultimately depend on the graphics card. Graphics cards capable of pixel-level programming deliver the best performance. But Core Image automatically scales as appropriate for systems with older graphics cards, for compatibility with any Tiger-compatible Mac.

Supported graphics cards:
ATI Radeon 9800 XT
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro
ATI Radeon 9600 XT
ATI Radeon 9600 Pro
ATI Mobility Radeon 9700
ATI Mobility Radeon 9600
NVIDIA GeForceFX Go 5200
NVIDIA GeForceFX 5200 Ultra
These cards are available in today’s PowerBooks, Power Mac G5s and both the 17-inch and 20-inch iMac.
Click to expand...

Goodbye iBook, all but the newest iMacs, QS and older G4's, older PB's...

On the plus side XCode 2 looks like it's going to kick ass. I wonder if one will be able to chart graphically to generate code... now THAT would be beyond wonderful. I think that, plus all the UNIX upgrades (FreeBSD 5.x and Resource Fork safe cp! woo!!)

I think this will help ease the 32-64 bit transition, which would otherwise be almost as painful as 68k-PPC
 
Well, first things first. I was wrong. I thought the screenshots were fake. Sorry for doubting you, Arn! :D

Secondly, there's definitely more in Tiger than Panther. Panther was the biggest letdown once I'd bought it. The only thing that made Panther worth it to me, was the significant stability improvements. I hardly use Expose.

There's a lot more in Tiger than Panther. Compare these two pages...
Panther's new features
Tiger's new features

For me, there's no contest.

On the Konfabulator thing, I do think it's a low blow from Apple, but, what goes around, comes around. K got their Karma.

Hopefully with Apple's Dashboard, developers will be able to sell their widgets. I guess, K has been bitten by their own dog. The K guys happily made a money off widget developers efforts but now cry foul. Sorry K guys, but you were prepared to play for yourself and now you've been kicked by the master of that. It's probably too late for K to setup a way to for developers to sell their widgets.
 
i used to like konfabulator, but at around update 1.5 or somethin it started messing up things. it's a display problem that i've had for a while that seems to be tipped off by third party stuff, and konfabulator did it (see pic). when i heard this news about the ripoff i went to konfabulator to see what was up, and decided to download the new version to see if it works right now. but it doesn't and now they're charging people for it. so i don't like konfabulator anymore. maybe steve himself was ticked that they started charging and decided to make his own. i'm all for donationware, i've given a few times to some programmers for some good work. konfabulator just isn't worth it. but there's more to tiger than the dashboard deal, that's just a little toy compared to what else they're working on. personally i don't think i will upgrade to tiger. i upgraded to panther because it was all stuff that i could use. i can't use some of the tiger enhancements such as 64 bit power and the new graphics stuff. so it's not worth it. it's too much money to have to upgrade hardware for software's sake. console gaming is way smarter than computer gaming for that reason.
 

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Awimoway said:
What a bunch of sour apples. :p

Tiger is a much more exciting update than Panther.

Spotlight: Metadata in Finder and more. What could be better?

Automater: The possibilities are endless. If this is implemented correctly, it will be a very powerful feature.

Dashboard: A cleaner version of Konfab with Apple's design touches.

Safari RSS: Finally, an easy, straightforward, Mac-esque way to do RSS!

iChat AV: The hi-res video rocks.

NO PINSTRIPES :)

This is a very solid update to the OS. Far more impressive than the one-hit wonder that was Panther: "oh boy, I can make my windows fly off the screen... uh, is that all there is?"
Click to expand...

Hear hear! I agree, this is great news. The Automator thing looks amazing, as does the Dashboard feature.

Can Konfab sue Apple? Seems likely to me.
 
sethypoo said:
Hear hear! I agree, this is great news. The Automator thing looks amazing, as does the Dashboard feature.

Can Konfab sue Apple? Seems likely to me.
Click to expand...

Sue Apple for what? Inventing Hypercard?

30 Jan 1972
 
from slashdot:

"I really hate reading this panic "they're stealing!" attitude every time.

Let's do a review here, okay?"

1984: Apple introduces desk accesories. Little programs that go anywhere on the desktop and can be run in parallel to other applications.

1986-ish: Apple introduces Multifinder.

1990-ish: Apple introduces System 7, and deprecates DAs.

1998: Windows 98, complete with active desktop and on-desktop widgets.

2000-ish: Apple introduces Mac OS X. Widgets now go in the dock.

2002-ish: Apple moves widgets to the menu bar.

2003-ish: Konfabulator is born.
2004: Apple moves widgets to the desktop and adds javascript.


Frankly, Konfabulator was a low hanging fruit. It didn't really introduce anything except using Javascript, it just tied together a batch of old technology with a very old Apple idea. It's common sense to realize that Apple would move widgets back onto the desktop and add Javascript support once they realized how well it would work out. About the only thing you can really take issue with is Apple's decision to use Javascript."

Plus the widget makers will now have a greatly expanded audience. Konfabulator is in your way. It appears dashboard will only be around when you need it as already seen in the Apple app Motion.

BTW. Watson now being sold. Sherlock. Then Watson. Then improved Sherlock. I was an early registered user of Watson. Quickly quit using it. All the moaning is just dizzying...
 
30jan-1972 said:
2) LaunchBar.
-There are at least 3 other pieces of software that do the same. Where's the outcry over them.
Click to expand...

I absolutely agree.

-Launch Bar is in perma-beta and is horribly buggy IN ANY ENVIRONMENT OTHER THAN THE ONE USED BY THE DEV. At least Apple's searchlight won't crash my computer when certain apps are running.
Click to expand...

Um, what? I don't know what's going on with your setup, but I've had zero problems with Launchbar on five different machines. Zero.

-Launch bar is slow and a massive resource pig. It makes Konfab look awesome.
Click to expand...

Again, what? I've never seen LB use and noticable resources once it's done with its startup scanning. I'm guessing you're either making stuff up, or have a horribly mis-configured machine.
 
sethypoo said:
Oooooh, touche.

If Apple owns the rights to the "widget" idea, they have every right to use it. If not, than the makers of Konfabulator should sue.
Click to expand...

Ummmm ... "widgets" pre-date Konfabulator by more than a decade. On that, they have absolutely no legal ground.

They can claim that they pioneered javascript-based widgets as desk accessories ... but then, that's only a hair's difference from ActiveX-based widgets as desk accessories Microsoft gave the world in Windows 98 (or was that SE?). And it wasn't exactly a unique idea at that time either (several companies had non-OS-integrated versions of the same general idea going on).

I still think that if Arlo and friend can get off their high horses for a moment they might find themselves in a very satisfying niche ... but given their reactions so far I'm not sure that's possible.

They did a pretty good (albeit not without problems at both the design and implementation levels) implementation of a fairly old idea. They mined that market niche for a few years (by the time Tiger comes out). They either adapt to the Dashboard world and thrive, or they move on to a new niche and thrive, or they sit down, whine a lot, and go bankrupt in a year. This is life in the software industry. Heck, this is life, period.
 
DGFan said:
So why doesn't Steve implement this:

http://www.codetek.com/ctvd/

Surely, that would solve everyone's problems???
Click to expand...


Ummm ... because virtual desktops tend to confuse "ordinary" users, maybe?

Do you not see that a single-purpose specialized virtual desktop (which superimposes on your normal desktop) is about ten times easier for Grandpa Joe to comprehend than clicking a button, all his work dissappearing, and having to remember which of the sixteen desktops has his son's letter on it and which has the calculator and which has the grocery list ...
 
Okay, a few things:

For people saying "Spotlight isn't impressive, it's a Launchbar ripoff, etc." well, there's no good way to put this: you're wrong. First off, this signals the presence of pervasive metadata as part of the Mac file system, much like the BeOS File System of several years ago. To those who say that BeOS's version of this was primitive, well, you're dreaming. This is basically the same thing. Is that bad? Hell no; BeOS's metadata, querying, and saved queries (what are being called "Smart Folders") were way ahead of their time, and I'm quite glad to see OS X get these features. THIS is the feature Longhorn was SUPPOSED to have, and has gotten scaled way back to try and get it out the door sooner.

The 64-bitness of this OS is marketing speak. Basically the APIs have been revised to allow 64-bit access to RAM and virtual memory for all G5-equipped computers, and to allow command line tools access to this as well. This is primarily for server applications. This is not a fully 64-bit OS.

Dashboard is a good Konfabulator killer; in my experience Konfab is a resource hog, is overpriced, and has a plethora of redundant (and hence useless) widgets. I'd much prefer a well-coded, non-JavaScript, Apple implementation of this concept. The Exposé tie-in is just a bonus. I'll be glad to see Konfab's developer shuffle off this development coil; he has a reputation for being a bit of a dick. Maybe he can turn his outfit into one that makes Dashboard widgets and sells them for cheap. That'd be a much better use of his time.

iChat AV allowing for multiple audio and video streams kicks ass. I know several Mac-owning friends who will be getting iSights because of this. When we're all away from college (or even when we're there and feeling lazy) this will be a great feature.

Image Core looks, from my perspective as a digital video student, BAD ASS with a capital everything. I can't wait to see how image and video applications take advantage of this new technology.

Automator doesn't excite me particularly, at least from my point of view, because I've never been big into scripting. But I'll definitely play with it when it arrives; who knows, it could be more useful than I think.

And finally, to those saying that Longhorn is going to blow this out of the water or that Apple needs a revolutionary GUI makeover, you're dreaming. Microsoft's "interface enhancements" have been, largely, eye-candy. Where's the logic in an alt+tab switcher that rotates windows 45º or so and obscures most of them? A 3D interface, as someone suggested, is ridiculous. We're dealing with a 2D display device; how on earth does a 3D interface increase productivity, reduce user confusion, or even make sense as an operating paradigm? There's not much left to adjust about current GUIs until we're projecting holograms and interacting physically with projected "objects."

Between the displays and the features I saw in OS 10.4 Tiger today, I thought it was a pretty good keynote—not mind-blowing, but certainly not BAD. The people expecting either PowerBook G5s or iMac G5s were delusional. This was a developers conference keynote. PBG5s were already guaranteed to arrive AFTER the end of this year. iMacs are consumer products, as are iPods. We may see revisions to those products in the coming months.

--Cless
 
wdnx said:
Um, what? I don't know what's going on with your setup, but I've had zero problems with Launchbar on five different machines. Zero.
...
Again, what? I've never seen LB use and noticable resources once it's done with its startup scanning. I'm guessing you're either making stuff up, or have a horribly mis-configured machine.
Click to expand...

As to your first part. The office I work in has 20+ Macs running an array of 10.2 and 10.3 setups. LaunchBar had to be pulled from ALL of the 10.2 machines and some of the 10.3 ones.

Want a 30 second example? Go download Sigma Chess from sigmachess.com, run the app, now try to use LaunchBar. Wave goodbye and hope that only the apps crash. This is the easiest of 8 apps that have major problems with LB. All sent to devs of LB and devs of those pieces of software. I do care whose problem it is, but since there are 8 I'm aware of....I know who I suspect. I know that Apple search won't crash things...one way or the other.

As to the resources. How often do you have LB rescan? on startup? Well, some of us function in environs that change much more often and require periodic scans. Always nice to have the scan go when you're in the middle of saving a nice big PS doc. Murphy's Law...it always scans at the worst possible times. I have no complaints when it doesn't have to scan...but if its not current (or only current at 8:AM) then what good is it??

30 Jan 1972
 
jboyzh said:
Introducing Konfabulator.

What a wonderful day...
Click to expand...

I don't understand the complaining about dashboard. I have the Konfabulator clock, and calendar on my desktop all the time (and the little annoying box in the lower left corner).I Couldn't live without them.
I think Apple saw the value of the widgets, but realized how much better it would be to hide them away until you needed them, at the touch of a button.
If people don't like to use these handy gadgets, DON"T PUSH THE BUTTON!
 
Mostly this transition was a no brainer if your machine had the ability for PPC code. What happened though is developers would release PPC only (as they should have, times move on) and it forced you more quickly to consider upgrades.
As apps bloated, and disk space becam a premium, some utilities would 'strip' legacy code from a FAT app and make it PPC only. Kinda cool. But buggy in some cases.
All in all, it was pretty seamless. I am sure this will be far easier of a transition that 9 to X was, or from 6.X to 7.X was for many.

GWhite said:
Remember the 68 to PPC transition? Looks like the same thing is about to happen again. XCode 2.0 you can compile 32bit, 64bit, or FAT. Wonder how long before 64 bit predominates? How painful was the last transition anyone recall?
Click to expand...
 
the Konfab people have a right to be upset. When Apple released Expose, people pointed out that Windows has had some of those features for years. But the Apple supporters said that Expose did things right, and in a good looking fashion. Now the shoe is on the other foot, and people dont seem to see why teh Konfab people are upset.

I personally think that the entire Widget things are annoying.
 
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