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WWDC: New Tiger Features

What a bunch of whiners on here...

THIS IS A DEVELOPERS CONFERENCE, NOT A HARDWARE PEEP SHOW!! How many of you have used Tiger? I know all of the people saying they won't buy this will buy it. The potential of this os looks really good. All of the video/image API's will allow applications to become that much more useful. I don't think anyone really realizes how awesome the searching feature is. Panther looked even more "useless" of an upgrade over Jaguar. This looks amazing. The development potential also looks really good. I have seen a lot of, "Nothing I would use" complaints, but very little requests of what you do want. I can see iLife, FCP, Shake,etc. become much more advanced with 64-bit. Remember Steve talking about de-blurring photos with one click. I think Tiger brings that into reality. Also, Konfab is a terrible application. Great idea, but not very usefull. It is so sluggish and gets in the way. Apple's implementation is far better, and will probably continue to get better. If Apple can make a better app then why stop them. I wonder how many of you would defend MS if Apple released an Office app. I would like to hear from developers who have access to the demo. There comments are much more useful to me than a bunch of iMac G5 dreamers who surf the internet. Don't be so quick to judge. This OS is a year away. Probably waiting for the hardware to catch up. Tiger will rock, everyone will upgrade, enough said.
 
I'm looking forward to Tiger. Everyone at my work (web/graphic design) was going nuts over all the development-related stuff (UNIX, Automator, Xcode). I think it'll be cool.

I see they've made the menu bar shiny now. That'll be cool.

I'm a little let down, because I was hoping for an Aqua Finder. I don't dislike metal, but I like Aqua more. Attached is an example of what I was thinking of. I was also REALLY hoping (and maybe it's there) for the bottom of the Finder window to tell the size of the selected file(s). I don't ALWAYS need to see how much disk space is left. Command-I is just a little bit of unnecessary effort. See attachment.

Again, I'm a little let down overall, meybe because THEY HAVEN'T PUT IT UP for streaming. But Tiger's going to be great.
 

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johnpg said:
Apple's Spotlight technology is a feature of the OS that can be fully utilized by third party developers. This will only make Launchbar better, not necessarily obsolete. Kind of like how Omniweb switched to Webkit. Launchbar and the other launchers will be able to tap into this and extend it. I suspect that Konfabulator could work within the Dashboard framework and extend upon that as well. Plus Konfabulator will still have a market with pre-10.4 systems and Tiger users who prefer it over Dashboard.
Click to expand...

To the best of my knowledge Omniweb 5 still uses webcore, not webkit, at least as of v5 beta 2 they did.
 
Safari

Hey, I noticed that Safari can save web pages with links... the only thing I missed from IE is the scrapbook, and I guess Safari will now have a similar capability.
 
I'll admit, Spotlight is looking kind of cool to me now. When the leaked screenshots came out, I thought that that was proof the shots were fake. But they weren't. And, judging from the pics on apple.com, the "spotlight" gets sharper 'round the edges as the search narrows down. Pretty cool.
 
lots of stuff

im only disappointed because we rumor alot and build up what was never supposed to be built in the first place, other than that, im excited about 10.4... ADD tabs to iChat though! come on, i though apple was about simplicity? tabs is just a TAD easier to develop than multiple video streams/audio conversations using new codecs.
 
I love these posts

I've lost count of how many of these I've seen:

"Apple only has a year left to enhance Tiger. Doesn't look like it will offer much. The ONE and ONLY thing it has that MIGHT get me to upgrade is XXXXX."

...where XXXXX is a different thing for each poster who says it's the only worthy feature :D Such as:

New 64-bit app support
Automator
Spotlight instant searching and metadata system
Dashboard
Videoconferencing (with H.264: better quality at the same bandwidth)
Safari RSS
VoiceOver
New .Mac stuff
CoreImage and ready-made filters
Xcode 2
And the other 140 out of 150 features they didn't yet announce :D
 
Kelson said:
I do find it very curious that it is still 8-12 months from release. It looks like the features advertised are all there now. Granted, it may be a bit buggy, but 8-12 months is a LONG time and ALOT of code can be written/fixed.......after all, this was the amount of time between Jaguar and Panther....So...what's going on here?
Click to expand...

There's a huge difference between a "working demo" and final code, of course (although at least Apple doesn't do the "PowerPoint Demo" which was so unfortunately common four or five years ago ...). But, I think more importantly, I didn't see any evidence that the new kernel (FreeBSD 5.x) was up and working fully yet. [Edit: Panther is indeed 5.0, but I believe Tiger is a minor rev up from that.] A kernel change requires both a considerable amount of development work from one end of the app to the other and an enourmous amount of QA regression testing to make sure it gets released as stable as possible.
 
Thirteenva said:
Oh i see... adding a feature or two the original did not have makes it less of a rip off, got ya. Now it makes sense... no wait it doesn't. Saying something with conviction doesn't make it correct.

This is a konfabulator 'inspired' app, that's the bottom line, like it or not.
Click to expand...

Well, given that what Konfabulator offers over previous efforts is next to nothing (I've reinstalled the latest and continue to be unimpressed), I think that a few key usability features like "that stupid weather widget keeps getting in the way of my iTunes playlist" are quite significant.

When you've really only got one or two features, someone re-implementing the idea you re-implemented last year, and adding one or two key features doesn't qualify as a rip-off.

Really. Can you list the innovative features of Konfabulator?

IMHO, if Apple is "ripping off" Microsoft and themselves and a dozen other widget-dreaming companies moreso than the Konfabulator guys.

Granted, Konfabulator may well (assuming the developers can get over their moaning and actually work to develop the thing) be significantly more advanced by the time Dashboard is available. Great! Then they'll have a market to sell to! Market it as "all the things Dashboard should have been"! Support Dashboard widgets so that your users get all that plus more! Integrate into the UI to become a Dashboard replacement! Put some *real* innovation into your product!

To think that implementing a decade-old+ idea somehow gives you a lifetime patent on that idea is just plain ridiculous.

I hate to rip into Konfabulator like this, but it's really not nearly as important as its developers apparently believe it is. If they feel the need to bitch and moan about this, then they should be ready for the reality check: what they did wasn't overly original, and it hasn't been overly successful. They should focus on innovating their product with new ideas, thinking outside the simple widget framework box and putting something wholly original and useful oput there. That is something they can claim a right to profitting from. You can't patent someone else's idea. You can grow it, build a niche around it, and make it a reality, but that is, has always been, and will always be the far riskier route: if it's not your root concept and the advances you make are elementary then someone else can do the same, and if there's money to be made then someone with a larger bankroll will re-implement your niche product better and drive you out of business.

Again, if Konfabulator has some original ideas going for it I'd like to hear them. As things stand, I don't see anything original there.
 
I love tiger so far but I wonder what they really have up their sleeve for the final release. Does anyone remember what stuff Apple waited until the last minute to show for Panther? Or is this pretty much it?
I think for sure the finder will get a new coat of white or grey paint. The blue color on the Apple menu does not match the color on the buttons in the finder. And seeing how the make use of glossy buttons, I think they will get rid of the gumdrops and install high gloss drops.

As I sit here copying dozens of CD's to my drive, I wish they would just copy Microsoft and put animations on their copy windows. Along with what CD is being copied (I have 3 CD drives running) and just have it all laid out better than it is now. Maybe it could be smart enough to know if I am copying the whole disk and have a little check-mark to eject the disk when it is done copying.
 
Tiger certainly isn't the 'flash' OS that Panther was (Exposé, FUS, new Finder) or Jaguar (Rendevous, Quartz Extreme, loads of apps), but it is a very interesting upgrade, especially for developers.

CoreImage, CoreVideo, the new search funcationality and many things about Xcode (in particular, the new design modelling and auto-vectorisation - woohoo!) will be of interest to most developers.

Dashboard could be an interesting opportunity for 3rd party developers.

And Automator could get a lot more people interested in automation and scripting (and then onto programming?).

It's a long way from completion, so there still could be many gaps to be filled in. I'd certainly expect some UI tweaks before it's launched, especially given it's so far away still.
 
age234 said:
I'm looking forward to Tiger. Everyone at my work (web/graphic design) was going nuts over all the development-related stuff (UNIX, Automator, Xcode).
Click to expand...
That in my mind was really the true strength of tiger but maybe that's because I work in CFD and could see this as helping Apple have companies port programs across. Certainly developers will love this update though.

jknight8907 said:
So I won't be able to use this with my 32-BIT POWERBOOK? Anyone else smell a 64-bit (i.e. G5m) PB between now and when Tiger comes out???
Click to expand...
Tiger supports fat binaries and Xcode 2.0 does compiles for the various chips from 1 set of source code so it really doesn't state much about hardware at all since all current hardware will be supported.
 
I've not seen this mentioned but anyone seen the new iChat icon? Apart from looking ugly, there is no AOL running man. I always thought when thinking about iChat and multi client support that it would be out of place having the aol badge only. Maybe its a huge suggestion that they are woerking on multi client support for iChat but don't have the licencing or the code in place to announce it yet?
 
You're killing me...

1. I'm in the camp that holds that Konfabulator looks purty, but is a resource hog and really not original in itself. But it does look nice. Right now, I think that Konfab has the upper hand on Dashboard, but Dashboard is still development code (with an *orange* calculator?! I like orange, but not for an application). Plus, whiners make me angry.

The only reasonable way to use Konfab is to set a widget to desktop level and then use expose to view them (by clearning the screen). Otherwise: useless. Plus, most of the widgets on Konfab are redundant and stupid.

I love how when a shareware app becomes popular, people always say, "I don't know why Apple doesn't put this in the OS," but as soon as Apple does, they cry foul. Should Apple pay to license the (non-original) idea, or the crappy implementation?

2. From what I know of metadata in the OS, I think it will change my computing life. Forever. For good. Initial application might be just OK, but the possibilities are amazing. Ditto with Core Image & Video.

3. This is the developer's conference. If Apple had any major commercial announcements, they would have made it a more public event (with streaming, etc). In this case, they were speaking to a specific (closed) audience. If this makes you annoyed, it's because they weren't speaking to you.

4. In Windows-world, the average user upgrades every other version. There's just not enough to justify the jump for each version. We're pretty spoiled in Mac-land, where every upgrade has at least one gotta-have-it feature. Will Tiger be better than the previous versions of Mac OS X? I sure hope so. Will it be the be-all, end-all upgrade, from which no other upgraded can come? No. Tiger will not be perfect; there will still be room for improvement. Thus, we'll all have things that we feel are annoyingly less-than-perfect. Life is pain, princess.

5. There's criticism and there's complaining. Most of the negative posters in this forum are complainers (whiners, gripers, whingers, chronic masturbators) who deserve to be ignored. Those of you who offer true criticism (which some people call "constructive criticism," though that's somewhat redundant, since true criticism is valuable and therefore constructive), I really enjoy reading your posts.

6. It appears that no one who's posted so far was actually *at* the presentation. And since it's not yet available for viewing anywhere, you're basing your comments on second-hand, condensed reports and Apple's own website spin. Anyway you look at it, it's shadows of shadows of shadows. You don't even have a casual acquaintance with the truth.

7. I'm looking forward to Tiger, and even more for applications which take advantage of Tiger's new features. Better apps means a better computing experience; the OS is the environment for applications. Better email? Better web browsing? Better office-stuff? Better iLife? Oh yeah, baby.
 
I know it has already been said, but it has to be said again - those of you thinking that Spotlight is just "the old search with a few more options" simply don't have a clue about what this actually is. If this is indeed a full, functional metadata engine for OSX, this is HUGE. Search, as it is now, can find files by simple options - name, creation date, kind, etc. This will allow you to give far more details to files and find them that way. For example, you could find every last file regarding that new website you are building, no matter what kind of file, the name of the file, where it is located, whatever. Know you have that one MP3 file, but it wasn't named properly, and you have no idea where it now is? Search by the ID tags.

Metadata is a very, very big thing, and something that OSX will hugely benefit from. If this is indeed a true implementation of metadata, Apple should be promoting the hell out of it. If people are good about tagging files, metadata can make it so that, theoretically, you'll never be able to lose a file again on a big hard drive. Right now, if I want to find that one pic of me when I met my favorite singer, all I can search for really is the name of the file. If I can't remember where the pic is at, or what the name of it was, I'm screwed. With this, if I've been good about tagging, I can search for "pic of me with Sonim," and boom, there it is.

I am, however, a bit worried about OSX. From what we've been shown from Apple, part of me feels like Apple just doesn't know what to do with OSX at times. They seem to be doing good about under the hood technology, but a lot of the stuff that everyday people see are a mess. The Finder is horribly under-developed, and needs a lot of help. QuickTime Player has sat stagnant for years now. Mail, in my opinion, could use a lot of work on better organization and whatnot. (Yes, even including the new Smart search features.) iChat needs polishing in a lot of ways. (Which may or may not be coming.) RSS is nice and all, but when you can't even turn off underlined links in the standard Safari prefs, the app needs a lot of work. (Which, again, may or may not be coming.) At least, for Safari, Apple needs to steal a cue from OmniWeb and give us far more searching abilities than just Google. iCal has had no major upgrades for a while, so far as I know, and iPhoto still needs quite a bit of work.

I just feel like Apple keeps tossing in all of these little bells and whistles, which are nice, but they really need to go back and put more work into what they have already given us. It feels, to me, that Apple keeps giving us stuff, upgrades it a bit, then forgets about it in order to toss out more new stuff. I love new stuff, don't get me wrong, but I also like fully polished old stuff.
 
I hope them dashboard widget colours are customisable. But I guess the kids will love them. All new things take a little getting used to.
 
Looks good

I've already got a check written out and undated for when Tiger is out! :cool:

I think there could be lots of cool stuff. Metadata, before M$ even. :D
Core Image sounds really badass and has a lot of potential for cool graphical stuff. Hopefully Apple will also make it so scolling and window resizing is done by the GPU, to polish up the last part of the UI thats not quite there with the Snappiness.

New iChat features are awesome, I hope AIM releases an update to use the improved codec since in my experience AIM is kind of...ass compared to iChat as far as the video quality.

Couple things though, I hope they get rid of the blue highlight by the Apple menu and the Search Button/Menu in the toolbar, its just too strong and almost Windows'ish (agh! noooo!)

I also really hope they clean up the widgets, man those things are ugly as sin. I want them to look sleek and professional, just like the rest of the OS. I couldn't imagine using a nice sleek Pro app and then pressing the button and seeing that bright toy-like *BLEH* looking widgets.

I hope some of my dreams about Core Graphics come true, looking at some of the included it would be awesome, Imagine having a borderless semi-transparent grey Adium contact list at the top corner of your monitor, then when one of your good friends logs on you've set to have a subtle "sun beam" quickly shine from their name. We could get some of those water ripple effects when items are removed from the dock instead of the not very exciting puff, etc.

All in all it will be a long hard wait for Tiger for me. :)
 
ADC Select & Premier Members

I wonder when Apple will seed the preview edition of Tiger to ADC members? I can't quite remember when Panther was seeded, I was thinking within a few days after the keynote. Hopefully, this round it will be easier and faster to download.
 
Why has my response been deleted?

Why has my comment been removed? I hope this is a screw up and not an intentional delete... If the later, I think it is a sad state of affairs if unpopular ideas or suggestions are silenced. I really don't even know what was so awful about my post. I thought all ideas were good... creates a discourse that leads to innovation... I really hope this is a screw up.
 
Did anyone notice that the Tiger disc images on the Apple site says:

Tiger
Mac OS X Version 10.4

While the banner photos from yesterday said:

Tiger Mac OS X

Does it mean anything? Probably not. But it's somewhat interesting.
 
beg_ne said:
I also really hope they clean up the widgets, man those things are ugly as sin. I want them to look sleek and professional, just like the rest of the OS. I couldn't imagine using a nice sleek Pro app and then pressing the button and seeing that bright toy-like *BLEH* looking widgets.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. I was praying that those screenshots were fake. One word came to mind: gaudy. Very un-apple-like. Sadly, the only thing that really makes dashboard look like a konfab (which sucks, IMO) is the overly gaudy/glassy look of the widgets.

Aside from that, everything looks great. I like this move toward beefing up the "guts" of the OS so that developers can really take it far (ie Motion was made using corevideo!!! imagine the potential!!), rather than more superficial tweaks.

Gonna be a long wait.
 
sorry... my post was in another thread

what a geek i am. sorry. :D

anyway, I thought there were going to be finder improvements.

as for developer vs consumer mentality, Why can't "consumers" have some idea of where the technology is going? It is the consumers that support the platform so before you start bashing us "consumers", maybe you should listen to what us dumb "consumers" want out of this operating system. I for one want some improvements in the dock (springloaded folders). A faster finder that doesn't freeze for minutes choking on a folder with 50,000 plus files. while i understand that some of these new features in tiger are a step forward, why can't something like springloaded folders in the dock be implemented? If all this under the hood stuff is so complex, you would think that springloaded folders would be no sweat for apple programmers.
 
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