WWDC: New Tiger Features

[MorganX]

so are we agreed:

Spotlight = Launchbar - http://www.obdev.at/products/launchbar/
Dashboard = Konfabulator - http://www.konfabulator.com/

only interesting thing is Automator

It's all interesting. There's little room for anything "totally new." I for one, think what's being shown is going to make MacOS more Windows XP like than ever. Maybe that's why all the Longhorn jibes. They did it out of embarrassment. But does it matter? Doesn't matter to Windows users, shouldn't matter to anyone else. If one platform does things right, do you think the other isn't going to implement their spin on it because, "they did it first." Pfft. That's silly.

All OS X needs now is to be built with the assumptioin the user has two mouse buttons so that context menu implementation can be standardize and pervasive.

I like what I'm seeing.

 

[Rower_CPU]

"very few changes to the GUI"

OK, so the GUI, to you, is nothing more than the look and feel of the OS (e.g. pinstripes and brushed metal) and not any of the underlying technologies, usability, etc. (e.g. Finder sidebar, Exposé, Quartz Extreme, CoreImage)? If so, let's agree to disagree.

 

[iGary]

People...Geebus!

1. It is more than 6-months away, this was a preview.

2. The Core Image and Core Video stuff is awesome, argue that.

3. OK, so Apple "copied" Konfabulator. Problem is, most of what is on Konfabulator isn't Konfabulator - it's all open source apps written by hundreds of different people.

4. Spotlight is revolutionary - and it appeared much faster than Finder ever was or is. Groundbreaking IMHO.

5. The iChat update is great..good news there.

Stop whining - you don't HAVE to buy the update.

 

[Steven1621]

hopefully the new ichat will support AIM profiles...

 

[Natron]

oh, i forget, apple's crap doesn't stink... and everything they do is wonderful and should not be questioned. I guess we should just shut up and like it. That's not a very good business model (especially for such a small market share).

I have a question... When did the mac user base all become programmers? I get the feeling from all the banter that goes on in here that everyone is an expert in programming or are hardware engineers that think that osx is for developers only and that us regular joes should have no feedback.

I like osx and Apple... i wouldn't have hung on for 13 years if didn't. I'm just a dumb artist and type designer who doesn't want the finder to lock up for minutes at a time and have some features that make my job easier. I'm not made out of money and when i buy the apple brand, i think that entitles me to have a voice. I also hope that Tiger doesn't equate being forced to upgrade to a G5.

Well, this was a developer's conference, and most of what they showed was for developers, most of the stuff concerned meta-data, which I'm guessing is what programmers will like (I'm a designer as well). WWDC isn't the place to show off a new iCal, iMovie, or Garageband. I think Tiger (esp. Core Image) will pave the way for better iApps, and better professional apps. I'm willing to bet we'll see iLife 05 in January, probably with 1 or 2 new apps, and running on Tiger, they should be really slick.

With Tiger not coming for at least another 6-12 months (I'm guessing April-May), we'll see hardware upgraded to take advantage of Tiger. I think we'll definitely see iBooks updated, maybe Powerbook G5's, maybe new iMacs, but I'm guessing the graphics cards will be updated to take full advantage of Core Image as well. I'm betting MWSF 05 will be pretty sweet.

-------
iPods and new iMacs at Apple Expo! (I wish I knew)

 

[Natron]

hopefully the new ichat will support AIM profiles...

I have a whole list of features I want added to Apple apps, including iChat - AIM profiles, being able to talk to "invisible" people, etc.

 

[datafatmunger]

bloat

10.0 = unstable but cool ideas
10.1 = more stable, but slow
10.2 = the apex, decent speed, stable, everything one needs
10.3 = some interesting new features that are nice, but you don't need
10.4 = bloat

ouch (see below). . .let me state that this is coming from a UNIX person that can do all the searching I need with find and grep. all the automation i need with shell scripts and cron jobs. all the date/time checking i need with the date command. . .and I was very sad to see apple starting to hide things such as the VPN server in the Mac OS X 10.3 client version.

 

[killmoms]

For those saying Spotlight is Launchbar, you're sadly misinformed. Spotlight is an underlying metadata indexing and search service that can be implemented into ANY application. Launchbar is a nice utility. Their functionality CAN overlap in a couple areas, but on the whole they're not even comparable. Spotlight is like watching the BeOS filesystem reincarnated, and I for one am VERY excited by that. Instead of having to remember arcane folder structures and such, just search for what you need, and (to quote Steve) BOOM, there it is. This will revolutionize the way we work with files.

As to Dashboard = Konfabulator, I say "good." Konfabulator is buggy, resource-hogging, and too expensive for not actually DOING anything. All of Konfabulator's functionality comes from third-party widgets. Dashboard will be more convenient, faster, take advantage of lower-level OS technologies, and be officially supported by Apple. Arlo can quit bitching and readjust his business—maybe he could sell high-quality Dashboard widgets at a buck or two a pop. Lord knows I'd be much more willing to pay for THAT than I would for his current program. Konfabulator is just the OS X equivalent of a concept that's as old as dirt (and invented by Apple, no less).

Automator looks amazing. I wasn't excited about it until I watched the stream. This thing is AWESOME; the possibilities seem endless. The new iChat AV with group video and audio chat will be a great way my friends and I can stay in touch when we're all far apart. Core Image and Core Video make my heart (as a budding videographer) go pitter-patter. And this is as much as a YEAR in advance of Tiger's ship date, about 10 features out of 150+ "new" features. I'd say the best is still yet to come at MWSF, when Steve unveils even more Tiger functionality. If you're not excited about this OS release, well, you're sleeping.

--Cless

 

[rastap]

Does anybody know if the new finder will be cocoa?

 

[whooleytoo]

ouch (see below). . .let me state that this is coming from a UNIX person that can do all the searching I need with find and grep. all the automation i need with shell scripts and cron jobs. all the date/time checking i need with the date command. . .and I was very sad to see apple starting to hide things such as the VPN server in the Mac OS X 10.3 client version.

I guess part of the 'problem' is Apple is now dealing with an increasingly diverse user base. Mac users wanting new Macs, and new features; Unix users wanting support of open standards, stability, security and performance; Windows users wanting freedom from virii and spyware, and relatively few configuration problems, and God only knows what ex-NeXT users want.

You can't please all of the people all of the time..

 

[trose]

I don't have time to read this whole thread, nor have I watched the keynote, I have just looked at the preview stuff on Apple.com .

Lots of neat looking stuff, but Automator looks frigging awesome. I have been wanting a tool like that for a LONG time. Sure, you might be able to accomplish it all with Applescript, but that's far from user friendly.
Looks way better to me than Exposé, which I hardly ever use.

Don't get me wrong, Exposé is great, but I can't ever remember it, lol. I'll let you in on a secret- I still catch myself holding the mouse button down when browsing menus, that's been abolished since what, 8.0?

 

[Fukui]

This somewhat off topic but I wonder why the Radeon 9200 (currently used in the iBooks and eMacs is not supported? I mean lots of people say the can't understand why the 12" PB still comes with the GeForce GO 5200 when the overall performance of the Radeon 9200 is better. So could it be that the Radeon is missing a feature, thus the missing support of core image or was it an arbitrary decission by Apple to not support the Radeon? Any Ideas?

Does 9200 support pixel shaders or just vertex?

 

[movabi]

i'm really not trying to be difficult...

Whether or not this was a developer's conference, Apple chose to display this project to developer's knowing full well that the rest of the world and even wallstreet would take notice. When you have a spectacular event like last year's WWDC people start to think that it should be equal to or greater than the last. Its kinda like how investors view earnings. I think Tiger looks promising... I just want to know if the finder has been polished and optimized... if that happens i will upgrade for that alone. I'm not one of these people who refuses to upgrade. I will be right in line with the rest forking out my $ I just hope by calling attention to features and performance now, maybe they will be considered/implemented.

 

[Fukui]

It's all interesting. There's little room for anything "totally new." I for one, think what's being shown is going to make MacOS more Windows XP like than ever.

I don't know about that (XP-ish), but, a lot of people complain about apple's "Not Invented Here" syndrome, and when they finally cast it aside for some things, they complain again!!

 

[macsrus]

It seems to me that many people here are complaining that Apple has just ripped off both launchbar and Konfabulator.....

While at first glance that may appear true..... but I believe that both of Apples demonstrations of Spotlight and the widgets go much farther in concept than the original 2 apps did.....
Besides I love getting something for free.... hehe

To me the most important and significant change to OS X is the 64 bit kernel.... It can finally address enough memory for my apps.

Now I can port my apps away from SGI Origins and IBM SPs... and get much better computing horsepower for my dollar.

I cant wait to get rid of the RS6000 setting at my desk..... the slow piece of junk

 

[Telomar]

This somewhat off topic but I wonder why the Radeon 9200 (currently used in the iBooks and eMacs is not supported? I mean lots of people say the can't understand why the 12" PB still comes with the GeForce GO 5200 when the overall performance of the Radeon 9200 is better. So could it be that the Radeon is missing a feature, thus the missing support of core image or was it an arbitrary decission by Apple to not support the Radeon? Any Ideas?

Probably memory. The 9200 only has 32 MB compared to 64 MB on the 5200s. Same as when they introduced Quartz Extreme.

 

[jackc]

Automator looks amazing. I wasn't excited about it until I watched the stream.

Where is the stream?

 

[jakemikey]

To me the most important and significant change to OS X is the 64 bit kernel.... It can finally address enough memory for my apps.

I've read several people call the kernel a "64-bit kernel". I'm no programmer, but I can tell you that Tiger's kernel is not true 64-bit.

Just read Apple's own page. They basically say everything BUT things like "64-bit kernel" or "64-bit OS" because they know if they did they'd get taken apart on it. Instead they say things like "enhanced kernel" and "enhaced 64-bit support". Trust me, when the kernel really does go true 64-bit, we'll all know about it, because Apple marketing won't let us forget it.

For all I know, since 64-bit tech has so little current application in the "real world", there might be little to no difference between current kernel optimizations and a true 64-bit kernel. For most users, I think 64-bit tech is a solution in search of a problem.

 

[jakemikey]

10.0 = unstable but cool ideas
10.1 = more stable, but slow
10.2 = the apex, decent speed, stable, everything one needs
10.3 = some interesting new features that are nice, but you don't need
10.4 = bloat

ouch (see below). . .let me state that this is coming from a UNIX person that can do all the searching I need with find and grep. all the automation i need with shell scripts and cron jobs. all the date/time checking i need with the date command. . .and I was very sad to see apple starting to hide things such as the VPN server in the Mac OS X 10.3 client version.

zzzzZZZZZ.......BO----RIIIINNNNGGG!! Hey I've got a fantastic phosphorous green 10" monitor for you, too!!

 

[diego]

Could someone upload the new ichat icon please???

 

[Telomar]

I've read several people call the kernel a "64-bit kernel". I'm no programmer, but I can tell you that Tiger's kernel is not true 64-bit.

Just read Apple's own page. They basically say everything BUT things like "64-bit kernel" or "64-bit OS" because they know if they did they'd get taken apart on it.

It really doesn't matter if the kernel is 64 bit or not as long as it has full support for 64 bit apps, which it does. This release could be very useful in luring a few of the high end CAD players across as it will make it far easier for them to port existing UNIX code.

 

[MorganX]

I don't know about that (XP-ish), but, a lot of people complain about apple's "Not Invented Here" syndrome, and when they finally cast it aside for some things, they complain again!!

XP-ish, Finder looking like it's parents are Windows Explorer and the first level of the Start Menu. Spotlight, looks like XP's task pane and Explorer grouping. Mind you, this doesn't bother me. I prefer XP so I'm thinking OS X is just getting better and better

I think Apple gets slammed because when they reach out and borrow a few ideas, they still claim "Invented here"

 

[Fukui]

XP-ish, Finder looking like it's parents are Windows Explorer and the first level of the Start Menu. Spotlight, looks like XP's task pane and Explorer grouping. Mind you, this doesn't bother me. I prefer XP so I'm thinking OS X is just getting better and better

Well, I agree, the finder is pretty bleh. You probably won't beleive it but I do prefer explorer above the finder (not asthetically speaking) but I like the tree view myself, that way you don't need two windows. I like Pathfinder better than both though. I actually think that the finder should just be nothing but smart folders, but maybe thats just me...

 

[Zaty]

Probably memory. The 9200 only has 32 MB compared to 64 MB on the 5200s. Same as when they introduced Quartz Extreme.

Could be, but don't forget that Rev. B 12" PBs only have 32 MB and there is no indication as to how much memory you need. If you need in fact 64 MB, this would mean that PBs (the last Rev. Bs that were built) which are only one year old by the time Tiger is released won't be supported. I don't hope that will be that case.

EDIT: BTW, it's not unlikely that the next revision of iBooks will also have 64 MB VRAM, so unless Apple also changes the graphics chip on the iBooks (which is rather unlikely), it' s probably not only memory.

 

[Gee4orce]

ouch (see below). . .let me state that this is coming from a UNIX person that can do all the searching I need with find and grep. all the automation i need with shell scripts and cron jobs. all the date/time checking i need with the date command. . .and I was very sad to see apple starting to hide things such as the VPN server in the Mac OS X 10.3 client version.

How fast does 'find' find anything ? grep ?

Spotlight finds things in 'boomtime' (the length of time it takes you to say Boom!). And not just files, but across all your data - email, contacts, pdfs. One of the coolest things in the demo is where Steve searches for 'Half Dome' and Spotlight finds a pdf map of Yosemite, having indexed all the place names in the map

And just for you, there will be command-line access to this technology.

Boom! indeed.