Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Fukui said:
<snip> I think everything apple anounced today for Tiger are what developers needed to know about (new APIs and plug-in architectures). Things non-developers need to know about (the glitz and wow) will be revealed in MWSF where it belongs...
Nice catch. Most things they spoke about today involved something Apple needs developers to know as they build their apps. Metadata in files, 64 bit options, graphical functions, widget options, automating, iSync 3rd-party access.

That makes me feel better. The things I wanted to see are things that Apple doesn't need 3rd party support for .... so they may still be in there.
 
I don't get why everyone's so upset about these widgets. How would you prefer they were designed? Would you prefer Apple stick with the metal theme and make a dozen identical-looking sleek metal doodads that appear on your screen at the same time?
They need to be so colorful and distinct so that they can be utilized effectively. You need to instantly know which widget you want by it's color or shape; it's useless if you have to scan each widget trying to figure out which one you want. Apple is a pioneer of UI first, pretty-ness always comes second.

jakemikey said:
Couldn't agree more. I was praying that those screenshots were fake. One word came to mind: gaudy. Very un-apple-like. Sadly, the only thing that really makes dashboard look like a konfab (which sucks, IMO) is the overly gaudy/glassy look of the widgets.

Aside from that, everything looks great. I like this move toward beefing up the "guts" of the OS so that developers can really take it far (ie Motion was made using corevideo!!! imagine the potential!!), rather than more superficial tweaks.

Gonna be a long wait.
 
macridah said:
One of the big things in the panter upgrade was expose, but I don't really use it. .

Set it up to work when you go to a corner of the screen, and you will start to use in constantly. The drawback is that anyone else who uses your computer will get totally disoriented when they accidentally use it. But that was incentive for me to start using fast user-switching with a guest account for anybody who wants to use my machine. (Plus I use dvorak keyboard, so an easy user-switch saves a lot of frustration.)
 
All I can say is that I looked at the previews for the stuff...

...all of a sudden my eMac has gone from "decent" to "****ty".
 
Anywhere that developers have already put up some more-detailed screenshots? Any changes to iCal or Sherlock, or others to *Safari than the RSS/Private Browsing thing? I'm just curious.
And, on the other hand I've noticed in the screenshots on the Apple website that the newly blued-out Apple menu doesn't have the blue-cover over it in all of the screenshots - for example, in the Safari shot, it isn't blued-out, nor is it in the first picture in the Dashboard section. Either they just added it, or it can be turned off. I know some aren't a fan of it, but I think highlighting it and the Spotlight button don't look that bad at all.
I also like the other interface change of putting stuff like search bars and back buttons, etc. right in the titlebar. I like the brushed apps, but I can see the appeal of having the Finder, or even iTunes take on this look - now that pinstripes have been thankfully almost entirely dismissed.
 
krel said:
Apple is a pioneer of UI first, pretty-ness always comes second.

Look, you and I could argue til the cows come home on this one (do you really think the one-button mouse supports your theory here? -- it's just the opposite: prettiness first, UI second). But here's the bottom line:

I don't know a lot about art, but I know what I like.

You've got a valid point about quickly knowing where what is via its bright color, but it's still a cop-out for Apple. I find it hard to believe that the company who came up with the iPod, iMac, and Aqua interface can't find a way to 1) make widgets quickly and easily accessible/distinguishable 2) AND make a common theme that is professional, eye-catching, yet understated. As presented, it just seems so "third-party"

I think it's funny that the OS X interface isn't highly customizable (out of the box) because they don't want their free advertising (in the workplace, at school, etc...) to look like some kludged-together linux desktop, yet they include these Fisher-Price looking widgets in their "highly evolved" next gen OS X release. Just seems weird. Hope they get those babies polished off before the actual release. Maybe if enough people express their widget opinions on apple's os x feedback page, they'll listen up and put some designer heavyweights behind the project.

To voice your opinion on Tiger's widgets, go here: http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/
 
The evolution of widgets

oldmac.gif


konfab.jpg


osx.jpg


the more things change the more they stay the same :D
 
anonymous161 said:
This isn't going to be for 64 bit Macs only is it? I don't see any mention of a 32 bit version anywhere. Surely Apple wouldn't be trying to force everyone to G5s when only one of their product lines currently has the chips.

I'm afraid this is for G5's only. You just don't run a 64bit OS on a 32bit chip. The move to 64bit is a huge undertaking and yet another rift in the apple os line. Next year we will hear about the sales of Tiger, the 12 million still on Panther and the 'other' 12 million still on OS 9 or earlier. It'll be a year or two before I get a G5.
 
CMYanko said:
I'm afraid this is for G5's only. You just don't run a 64bit OS on a 32bit chip. The move to 64bit is a huge undertaking and yet another rift in the apple os line. Next year we will hear about the sales of Tiger, the 12 million still on Panther and the 'other' 12 million still on OS 9 or earlier. It'll be a year or two before I get a G5.

Apple clearly states that they are only adding 64-bit pointers in the OS for the G5 - full 32-bit compatibility will remain.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/64bit.html
 
After watching the keynote on a quicktime stream, I think tiger is groundbreaking and will be super kick ass. If I said anything bad or thought of anything bad, I talk it all back. Tiger rocks !!! :D
 
iChat AV = WOOOW

I can't imagine a single executive on earth that won't get a TiBook and iCam (or whatever its called) to do 4-person video conferencing.

Shame about no new iMacs, but I'm amazed at how accurate TS was..And the new nVidia graphics card is insane! 8.2M pixels is a crazy number.

I wonder what "first half of 2005" means?
 
I feel like some of these updates aren't for us.

krel said:
I don't get why everyone's so upset about these widgets. How would you prefer they were designed? ... They need to be so colorful and distinct so that they can be utilized effectively.

I think this is Apple's take on how tacky windows is. The ripple effect and the stickies flip are sort of "windows-ey" notions.. didn't Longhorn have stuff hiding on the back of their 3d-windows? But Apple makes it a lot more clean and autere looking.

But one of the things keeping apple's market share as low as it is, is their impeccible taste. In all things. Don't forget, fine bordeaux isn't the most popular drink in America. And it's not just because beer's cheaper. It's becase Budweiser takes no development of your palette to "enjoy".

So apple has released some software which is just incredibly tasteful, and well thought out, and gorgeous. It's not hard to see the design philosophy in the case of the PowermacG5 show itself in the interface of Motion. Motion probably has the most advanced, well developed interface going.

But things like Motion aren't going to bring in the Wal-Mart crowd. It's austerity is actually alienating.

But these gaudy, huge widgets might. Apple will never stoop to the HP technique of covering their hardware in hideous colorful stickers. But the fact is, that type of thing attracts a certain crowd.

that low end market aren't power users. when they're looking at a computer, even aat the apple store, they aren't going to dig through an applications folder and load up iMovie and edit a movie and say "hey this is in the long run easier than windows."

but what they might do is see the dashboard, goo-goo-gah-gah over the bright colors and shiny buttons, see how easy it is to
get at the information they use the most, and hopefully assume the whole computer is that easy to use.

Most people don't do that much on their computer. they probably just use safari, -maybe- word but probably apple works, and maybe ichat. And that's about it. And these widgets, which are actually probably the most time saving, handy, useful things that relate to our life outside of the computer.

Wasn't the computer supposed to be a time-saving device?


Apple shouldn't make a PDA, fine. But how awesome would it be to have a hand-held Sherlock unit that could run these dashboards? It'd do probably about 90% of what I actually want out of a computer. Screw organization. I always forget to put things in a datebook, and forget to check them, but I never have to remind myself to wonder about the weather, or movie times, or the definition of a word, or a google search - these are things which could have a very real and huge impact on our daily life, the things we actually love technology to do.

Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part but I think that might be Apple's best chance with a low-end, convergence device. Cripple the hell out of it. But give me these dashboards, give me sherlock channels, and I think I'm pretty happy.
 
For the love of everything, will Apple please do something with Sherlock. I love the TV Guide stations in Watson, and love a lot of those channels, mostly just straight information channels (TV, movies, translation, don't use Amazon, ebay, etc.). I thought Sherlock was supposed to be something when they upgraded it in Jaguar (I think it was).
 
Life is good

This upgrade is significant. Despite not being in line with what some people here want in regards to minor features, this has major areas of improvement.

The interface is already ok. Everyone seems to want something else. They think that if Apple doesn't put THEIR feature in, everything is bad. Wake up! Apple sells millions of these things a year. Most people don't even know how to use an alias.

It would, for example, be good for me if Adobe used core graphics to let me do functions much more swiftly than they work now. Would they do this? I don't know. But if they did, it would be great.

The reason why the finder freezes up when you look at a folder with 50,000 files is because the functions to do so are not real time updates. This might fix that. Would that make you happy?

As to why Apple has slowed down development time is, I believe, because Microsoft is so far behind with Longhorn.

I suspect that when Microsoft said that Longhorn would be out "sometime" in 2006, and that some major features, such as the system as a database (something like what Apple is doing) wouldn't be out until 2009, Apple took advantage.

This gave Apple the time to stretch out the cycle. Several advantages accrued from that.

One is that business hates upgrading. Every time they do that something breaks. There have been complaints about that in the business community.

Two is that it has given Apple the time to add features to the system that might have been almost ready for October, but not quite. Perhaps some of what we saw today was slated for 10.5 in 2006, but now will be here in 2005. This will give them time to improve them further in a 2006 release.

Microsoft might (we can only hope) be stuck in a Copelandlike mire. The system will be at least three years late, without several of the most compelling features, which won't arrive until three years later.

Apple abandoned Copeland when it was two years late, but Microsoft can't do that. They have to keep on going.

What they have shown so far is an alpha build, devoid of most interface enhancements with only demos of the system.

If they are getting stuck, what they release will be a real mess. Remember 68,000 KNOWN bugs in XP?

Have you read the configurations needed to run the full interface? Two dual core chips running at a minumun of 3.5Ghz each. Then there's the Video card, and the memory...

I don't think we're doing so badly.

Rejoice! By the time Longhorn comes out we may be running 10.6!!!
 
I just wanted to note:

Tiger will not be out for at least 6 months!

It is pretty hard to judge if you want it or not when it hasn'e even been released or tested.

That being said, the use of metadata will be revolutionary. I am sure the release will coincide with g5 powerbooks.

Widgets: I actually think they look very apple like....like the dock icons. And there is plenty of time for them to be refined, but they don't look like mockups to me as other people have suggested.

So now we wait.
 
Probably not a DB filesystem like BeOS had

The search capabilities demoed today seem really nice, but from what Apple's site says here I don't think this is the same as BeOS's system or the supposed forthcoming Longhorn FS.
from http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/searchtechnology.html
The engine automatically takes all the metadata inside files and enabled applications and puts the data into a high-performance index. This process occurs transparently and in the background, so you never experience lag times or slow downs during normal operation. When you make a change, such as adding a new file, receiving an email or entering a new contact, the metadata engine updates its index automatically. Results of search requests are displayed virtually as fast as you can type your query.
From what I've read, the BeOS and the promissed new Windows FS are true, database engines holding the files. By the way Apple mention's indexing, it sounds like the HFS+ (or UFS) FS is still being used and a separate database index is being kept up to date by the OS automatically.

Is this better or worse? I don't know.

(BTW: There's a good article at ArsTechnica right now that clued me into this)
 
Auto-Vecotrization!!!!

This is something Apple should have had when the G4 was introduced!

[quote:]Build for Speed

At the heart of Xcode 2.0 is Apple’s version of gcc 3.5, the next generation of the industry-standard gcc compiler. The new compiler helps you get more performance from your existing code by using a number of advanced optimization techniques. Auto-vectorization, a technique borrowed from the world of supercomputing, helps you to unlock the power of the Velocity Engine in every PowerPC G4 and G5 system without writing vectorized code. Other optimization tools include support for feedback-directed optimization and inter-module analysis.[/quote] (My emphasis added)

Depending on how well this works (and how well we developers can be trained to write vectorizable code), this could make the even iBooks run silly-fast on new applications. :D :cool:
 
eric_n_dfw said:
The search capabilities demoed today seem really nice, but from what Apple's site says here I don't think this is the same as BeOS's system or the supposed forthcoming Longhorn FS.

From what I've read, the BeOS and the promissed new Windows FS are true, database engines holding the files. By the way Apple mention's indexing, it sounds like the HFS+ (or UFS) FS is still being used and a separate database index is being kept up to date by the OS automatically.

Is this better or worse? I don't know.
I'm guessing that with the BSD underpinnings and applications expecting access to files in the "traditional" way, any new file system would still have to provide access the old way.

Whether it's a database FS or the HFS or UnixFS - it is still data sitting on a disk somewhere. It's all a matter of how we get to that data (our files).

So - lets say Apple changes the OS so that a program writes to an old style location, BUT every time a file is modified, it is also reindexed. You now have 2 ways of getting to a file - via a database, or via an allocation table. You can choose the advantages of a database or the advantages of a tidy organised 'classic' layout.

My only qualms with Apple doing this are
1) Like ArsTechnica says, how good is the search technology (btw thanks for the link)
2) What database are they using?
3) Are they going to allow developers to save directly into the database, or do they have to save to the old style, with metadata (then again... this function is provided by the OS isn't it?)
 
unsigned said:
<snip> things like Motion aren't going to bring in the Wal-Mart crowd. It's austerity is actually alienating.

But these gaudy, huge widgets might. Apple will never stoop to the HP technique of covering their hardware in hideous colorful stickers. But the fact is, that type of thing attracts a certain crowd. <snip>

Apple shouldn't make a PDA, fine. But how awesome would it be to have a hand-held Sherlock unit that could run these dashboards? It'd do probably about 90% of what I actually want out of a computer. Screw organization. I always forget to put things in a datebook, and forget to check them, but I never have to remind myself to wonder about the weather, or movie times, or the definition of a word, or a google search - these are things which could have a very real and huge impact on our daily life, the things we actually love technology to do.

Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part but I think that might be Apple's best chance with a low-end, convergence device. Cripple the hell out of it. But give me these dashboards, give me sherlock channels, and I think I'm pretty happy.
Now you've got me thinking ;-) You may be on to something.

If Apple was planning a tablet with limited capability, they might use simple Java widgets - some standalone, some internet connected, and some linked back to a desktop Mac applications.

Of course, to get development going you'd have to make the widgets run on a virtual machine on existing Macs... in fact, you might as well make it a standard for the widgets to run on every Mac.

Pity our dreams and reality so rarely meet!
 
shidoshi said:
I am, however, a bit worried about OSX. From what we've been shown from Apple, part of me feels like Apple just doesn't know what to do with OSX at times. They seem to be doing good about under the hood technology, but a lot of the stuff that everyday people see are a mess. The Finder is horribly under-developed, and needs a lot of help.
I doubt very much that Apple showed their hand today. I strongly suspect that Apple intentionally only showed a few pieces of Tiger. No need to to let Redmond see all their cards.


QuickTime Player has sat stagnant for years now.
Tiger's version of QT Player is a complete rewrite built on top of the new QTKit.
 
chameeeleon said:
I'm just curious.
And, on the other hand I've noticed in the screenshots on the Apple website that the newly blued-out Apple menu doesn't have the blue-cover over it in all of the screenshots - for example, in the Safari shot, it isn't blued-out, nor is it in the first picture in the Dashboard section. Either they just added it, or it can be turned off. I know some aren't a fan of it, but I think highlighting it and the Spotlight button don't look that bad at all.
I think that's just a bug where the apple is highlighted sometimes when it should not be.
 
dstorey said:
I've not seen this mentioned but anyone seen the new iChat icon? Apart from looking ugly, there is no AOL running man. I always thought when thinking about iChat and multi client support that it would be out of place having the aol badge only. Maybe its a huge suggestion that they are woerking on multi client support for iChat but don't have the licencing or the code in place to announce it yet?

YES.

This was my thought when I first noticed it. So much of ichat seems multi-protocol as it is (I guess with .mac and rendezvous it . . . sort of is . . .) that I'd be really surprised if it weren't coming. I personally don't need it . . . but I know especially in non-US markets, ichat is almost useless because the majority of people use other systems.
 
The multiple screenshots leaked on Friday turned out to be true... proving (again) that most individuals can not conclusively determine fakes vs real screenshots.

Here's to that *raises glass*
Oh well, I can delete them off my server now :rolleyes:

Tiger is a good reason for me to upgrade hardware.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.