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WWDC - One Day More... Final Thoughts

Originally posted by thies
If you poke around further you'd realize that Apple makes as much as 30% profits from the sale of a powermac.
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And nothing at all from Safari, iMovie, iTunes (not the store), iCal, ...

Just *where*, exactly, do you suppose the money to fund iApps comes from?

You act as though hardware gross profit is all there is and that nothing else matters.
 
Originally posted by Jeff Harrell
I'm starting to get the impression, "Soggywulf," that you're just trolling for argument here.
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Thanks for some of the most lucid explanation seen on this site- or most any other on this topic. The Mac bashers/Wintel-philes just can't grasp the idea that CLASSINESS as well as utility have a place in the market as millions of Mac users can testify. After "trawling" through CompUSA to look at Wintel machines, it became clear that there IS NO design flare at all in use by these companies and once you do get to $499 machines, you have nothing that comes close to an eMac- cause if nothing else, it DOES NOT have Windows and that is a plus of such magnitude, I have no idea how you can put a dollar value on it. My made to 'spec' Win2000 blue box with a clear window on its side is a behemoth in size, lightweight in weight and since I only need it for an ultrasound program that is only available for wintel, I find myself never using it for anything else. From the GUI on, it is hiddeous! And, it cost over 1500 bucks with monitor etc. My fully decked out 15" iMac was less and there is NO comparison between the two in functionality.
Soggywulf, you are a wet doggy!
 
Originally posted by IndyGopher
Actually, that would be 12:00 EST. And since only Indiana is on EST, the point is pretty moot for someone on the east coast, where they are on EDT.
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Fortunately, since the original poster asked for the "east coast" time, and that's the information I provided, my reply was actually useful to someone. But thanks for sharing your intimate knowledge of time zones with the rest of us, Gopher boy.
 
What makes me laugh is that most Mac-bashers have never used a Mac. What makes me laugh more is that they spend their time bashing Macs. What makes me laugh even more than that is that they are usually around 13 and living off the PC daddy bought, because daddy knows best.

Arn I realise I'm not helping with how far off-topic this thread has gone.

AppleMatt
 
I don't believe any of these rumors will come true. Far more likely, they will revamp the whole line and all macs will be beige because "it works in the PC world and they sell far more computers." Additionally, System 6 will be reintroduced and OSX abandoned because "it's the leanest, fastest OS we've ever released. No one will complain about a slow finder on a Beige G5 running OS 6. Besides the whole 'X' thing has been overdone. Who needs multitasking when you have 'multifinder' ?"
 
Does anyone know if they're allowing cameras into the keynote now that it's being broadcast into the Apple stores. I'm going to be there and I really want to take some pictures.

-Tim
 
Originally posted by AppleMatt
What makes me laugh is that most Mac-bashers have never used a Mac. What makes me laugh more is that they spend their time bashing Macs. What makes me laugh even more than that is that they are usually around 13 and living off the PC daddy bought, because daddy knows best.
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I guess it makes for some larfs between reboots... "Hmmmm, how can I justify this POS to myself yet again...?" ;)
 
BTW, Jeff, thanks for making a well thought-out reply to my post, rather than a knee-jerk apologist baseless reiteration.

Originally posted by Jeff Harrell
When you're running a single process in a tight loop, your data and code are all snug in the cache. When you switch out of that loop, the processor has to fetch data and code from all the way out in main memory, which takes *forever* in these terms. So the faster processor you're so amped about just sits there waiting.
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I see, this makes sense. I was previously missing the implications of # or procs/CPU on number of main mem accesses. I stand corrected. Also your point about the smaller number of running vs runnable processes is well taken.

Hey cool, bring on the multi-CPU 970s! :cool:

So, I wonder, how do the dual-CPU macs compare in price/perf to multi-CPU wintel boxes?

Originally posted by Jeff Harrell
So yes, you're paying for something you don't need. You're paying about a dime for it.
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This would be fine if Apple passed the savings onto us. But getting back to where this lil subthread started, it looks like Apple is jacking up the price points, so we as customers are not really saving anything.
 
HEY LISTEN

Ok, so where can you check the new powermacs out at, when they're announced, if you don't have an apple store in town?
 
Originally posted by MasterX (OSiX)
People today are weird. Apple used to have a market plan like this:
Ultimate performance for what we do (which was then simply design and not much else)
Easiest to use
Best for education.

Then the G4 got blown away in the Ghz race and prices had to be cut on high end machines.

Then Dell cut into school sales and prices had to be cut.

Then XP came out and Windows was better looking and overall easier to use.

Back before the iMac came out (which marked the change of the Apple Macintosh as a computer for 'the rest of us', if more expensive) when you saw a G3 PowerMac in a graphics lab somewhere you almost ****e you pants, they were reveared darn it. Once people started owning high end PowerMacs they lost their allure, as well as $1499 PCs which can run equally as fast. I predict that Apple plans to replace their crown with the 970, offering a system which YOU CANT AFFORD and APPLE DOESNT CARE, just like it should be. crap about how its overpriced all you want while me and my commercial art and pro DV buddies laugh at you because we use the machine to make money and love running FCP4 so fast it makes Wintel users on Premiere heads' spin.

In reply to an earlier post, with post prod houses switching to windows rending, this is why Apple is ferverent in their suport for Real Time rendering in software and with hardware cards, and FCP4's improved support for EDLs, etc. Keep a Mac in the editing room where it belongs, but if you must, export to something more expesive to render or whatever.
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You speak the truth - finally someone has! Bring on tomorrow.
 
My thoughts for Monday

As an independent reseller dude for Apple products, I can only speculate from what I've been told from the supply chain. It's been hinted (hypothetically) that it would be 'unwise' to have stock onhand for PowerMacs, 15" PowerBooks, displays, iMacs and Xserves come Monday.

1.0GHz and Dual 1.25 GHz PowerMacs are disco-ed, dead stock, that's all I know for sure. The Dual 1.42 is still available as current but "is not expected to be in high demand". I expect the other models to have immediate availability.

Also, about the "leak" from Apple, some have suggested that this may be a deliberate understatement and I would have to agree. My knowledge of the PPC 970 is that the 'multi-core' technology (which differes from the dual processor model of current PowerMacs) is still down the road. Also, that the two processors on one core are actually less in clock speed than the singles. I expect the dual-core high end machine to be dealyed for quite some time.

Also, my understanding of the 970 chips is that the prototype with Altivec was a 1.8 GHz single chip. The second generation achieved a much "higher than expected' clock rating of 2.5 Ghz, and that the multi-core mode was unlable to match those high clock speeds.

My educated guess (and I really only have as much 'real' facts as any of you out there) is that we will see a single 1.8 GHz 970 and (maybe) single 2.5 GHz PPC PowerMacs available immediately, with the dual 1.42 G4 kicking arround unitl the "significantly faster" 970 Dual core machines come out "by the end of the year".

I also expect an alum 15" Powerbook, although I only expect it to become up to par with the current 12" and 17" specs. If there actually is a 970 PowerBook I will wet my pants and have to find a buyer for my 1GHz TiBook. Also expect iMacs and Xserves to have new 970 models announced, but not yet available.....and the ITMS still not availabe in Canada. :mad:
 
Originally posted by MacBandit
I'm sorry but a Dua 1.42 or 1.25 Mac is very comparable to a P4 machine in the 2.5 to 3GHz range. They aren't grossly oudated as you seem to think. Anything above that will cost as much or more then a PowerMac if you buy it from a reputable company and don't build it yourself anyway. In any case go to Dell or IBM online and configure them to have equal hardware. I haven't done it in the last couple months but as I have said, in the past the difference was as little as $200 and the most it ever was was $500 and to me the OS is worth that much. Microsoft products suck. Hell I'd pay a $1000 more to have the MacOS. My friends have nothing but problems with XP and the other Windows varients and no they aren't idiots they know what they are doing it's just they are like me and are constantly installing and uninstalling software and trying out different things and playing with this and that and bingo crash. I do that on my Mac and keep up with the normal maintenance i.e. permissions repairs etc. and it never crashes.

Also if Macs are so damn slow and such a pain to use why did they use them for the basic preproduction for the Lord of the Rings movies, The Hulk, and about a million other films. It's because the artists find it easier to use and this lets there imagination work because they aren't having to constantly deal with this or that not working.
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Here here, I love it when people write like this. Thanks for saying what I've been thinking.
 
Originally posted by Lyle
Fortunately, since the original poster asked for the "east coast" time, and that's the information I provided, my reply was actually useful to someone. But thanks for sharing your intimate knowledge of time zones with the rest of us, Gopher boy.
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I appreciate how well you take correction. The simple fact is, your answer was wrong. I thought I was rather polite about it, and didn't resort to any sort of personal derision about it. Grow up.
 
Re: Re: Right on.

Originally posted by mccoma
Nope, you made the point quite nicely. Macs (for the most part) just work and Mac users are used to dealing with the task at hand. PC's generally have other issues going on.
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Yeah, like whether to go outside this week!
 
Check this out, a reply to the thread:

Coming tomorrow:

Dual G5 XMac 1.6, 1.8, 2.0 (with PCI-X, upto 8GB RAM, optical audio)

15.4" G5 XBook1.4

Single G5 PowerMac 1.4, 1.6, 1.8 (Regular PCI, upto 4GB RAM, analog audio)

All with APX, Bluetooth, blah blah blah.

Maybe.
 
Re: My thoughts for Monday

Originally posted by Skull Leader
As an independent reseller dude for Apple products, I can only speculate from what I've been told from the supply chain. It's been hinted (hypothetically) that it would be 'unwise' to have stock onhand for PowerMacs, 15" PowerBooks, displays, iMacs and Xserves come Monday.

1.0GHz and Dual 1.25 GHz PowerMacs are disco-ed, dead stock, that's all I know for sure. The Dual 1.42 is still available as current but "is not expected to be in high demand". I expect the other models to have immediate availability.

Also, about the "leak" from Apple, some have suggested that this may be a deliberate understatement and I would have to agree. My knowledge of the PPC 970 is that the 'multi-core' technology (which differes from the dual processor model of current PowerMacs) is still down the road. Also, that the two processors on one core are actually less in clock speed than the singles. I expect the dual-core high end machine to be dealyed for quite some time.

Also, my understanding of the 970 chips is that the prototype with Altivec was a 1.8 GHz single chip. The second generation achieved a much "higher than expected' clock rating of 2.5 Ghz, and that the multi-core mode was unlable to match those high clock speeds.

My educated guess (and I really only have as much 'real' facts as any of you out there) is that we will see a single 1.8 GHz 970 and (maybe) single 2.5 GHz PPC PowerMacs available immediately, with the dual 1.42 G4 kicking arround unitl the "significantly faster" 970 Dual core machines come out "by the end of the year".

I also expect an alum 15" Powerbook, although I only expect it to become up to par with the current 12" and 17" specs. If there actually is a 970 PowerBook I will wet my pants and have to find a buyer for my 1GHz TiBook. Also expect iMacs and Xserves to have new 970 models announced, but not yet available.....and the ITMS still not availabe in Canada. :mad:
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Don't get me wrong, I really hope you're right, but just because you heard they achieved 2.5GHz, doesn't mean they can yield enough for mass production just yet.

I sincerely hope I can read this post tomorrow, and laugh at how wrong I was.
 
Re: Re: My thoughts for Monday

Originally posted by gotohamish
Don't get me wrong, I really hope you're right, but just because you heard they achieved 2.5GHz, doesn't mean they can yield enough for mass production just yet.
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Probably ture. Very possible that they toned down the chips for reliability in production. The Apple info may be very well correct at 1.6 GHz and 1.8 GHz. Also, Dual 2.0 GHz sounds in line for a dual-core based on the 2.5 GHz run. The single 2.5 GHz chip may be the prototype model for those 'faster macs by the end of the year' IBM mentions. Just don't expect to see the Dual 2GHz model for quite some time.
 
Originally posted by yzedf
Another interesting factoid is that the dollars spent per year is within $1 million between Apple and Dell. Obviously, someone wastes a lot of money (inculuding giving CEO 1/4 of profits as salary/bonus) when compared to the number of units sold per year. :rolleyes:
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Yes steve-o may be getting a large pay packet but the dollars spent per year is hardly a comparable statistic. Is Dell developing it's own OS? No. It's own software? No. Dell doesn't do anything more than your average Wintel geek could do in his basement. They assemble computers. Essentially, Apple fills the roles of Microsoft and Dell COMBINED. Now tell me who is spending more money in that comparison?

Also just to put this to rest FY can mean BOTH Fiscal Year and Full Year. If you want to see this in action please look at the annual reports of Heineken, Sprint, Alcatel, Aventis... Google the term "Full Year" and you will find many more I'm sure. For simplicity's sake I chose to use only one form of the acronym.

edit: Oh yeah... and I think Steve-O is worth it!
 
lol

--------------------------------------------------
Take a look at this

If it is true, I LIKE IT!!!

http://digitalstudios.geneva-link.c.../Film-enya.html
--------------------------------------------------

:D don't take this as an insult, but this is why i'm glad apple DOESN'T listen to all the "designers" out there... the functionality and technology it showcases is nice, but this thing is fugly! I could go into all the things that are wrong with it from a design standpoint but i have to go to work tomorrow! LOL!

I have several wonderful 3d friends, but most of them, without an art director and industrial designer, would be dangerous in the design world.(and i don't mean "dangerous" in a good way.)

:eek:
 
Originally posted by soggywulf
There aren't that many of these that need to use macs. Most of them can switch to PC if the price is wrong. IOW, they can't price these just for the professionals who don't care about a few hundred more or less. There aren't enough.
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Thats right, there's just not enough that's Apple is staying in business, posting profits most of the time, and is gaining back its marketshare in post (audio and film/video). A niche market is still a market.

I know quite a few post houses that are switching to Macs running Shake because the price/performance IS BETTER than running shake on a PC under linux. [That probably has something to do with the free rendering licences :)]

Ask the thousands of consumers who buy 3 gig p4s for games. Why is your "work" more important than my "games"?
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Cause my taxes obviously pay for your inadequate education which you waste playing games. :) :) :)

Who are you to say what I or any other consumer should do with my Mac? [/B]
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I'm not telling you what to do with it - I'm asking a question.

The Computer Industry is *the* triumph of a late-capitalist consumer economy. Upgrade. Upgrade. Buy. Buy. Buy. The whole industry is based on this myth that only faster and newer is better. And that everyone needs faster and newer.

Technology gets outdated as soon as you buy it and people perceive it as being useless... and they throw it away. Some ridiculously high percentage of land fill is dedicated to computers (I'm too lazy to get the figures, but if anyone asks I'll hunt them up).

And this perception of 'uselessness' is imnsho a big problem. We could be donating this technology to schools or to the third world. I reckon Word 5 runs as fast on my Centris 650 as Office vX runs on a G4. As computers get faster, software just seems to get worst.

Thats my beef.
 
ctystal's prediction

Rundown:
+ iTunes Music Store: reporting, new labels joined, Music Store in Japan now, and Europe later.
+ quark 6: sale figures; shake3 with Nemo;
+ iChat video support.
+ iCam: webcam with bluetooth, works with Mac & Sony Ericsson phones
+ ibook: student edition 800MHz with CDRW
+ 15" powerbook: 1GHz G4, Firewire 800 (no Firewire 400), same price
+ G5 chip: tech spec with IBM
+ G5 powermac: what can be wrong when the spec you have is from Apple? free panther upgrade in Jan.

- no panther demo

:eek:
 
Re: ctystal's prediction

Originally posted by crystalball
Rundown:
+ iTunes Music Store: reporting, new labels joined, Music Store in Japan now, and Europe later.
+ quark 6: sale figures; shake3 with Nemo;
+ iChat video support.
+ iCam: webcam with bluetooth, works with Mac & Sony Ericsson phones
+ ibook: student edition 800MHz with CDRW
+ 15" powerbook: 1GHz G4, Firewire 800 (no Firewire 400), same price
+ G5 chip: tech spec with IBM
+ G5 powermac: what can be wrong when the spec you have is from Apple? free panther upgrade in Jan.

- no panther demo

:eek:
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Hmmmm?? [scratches head] Joke?
 
Re: Does everyone drive neons and hyundais?

Originally posted by montefuego
This price fixation amazes me. I remember paying $4000 for a Zenith laptop that weighed over 10 pounds, was running word perfect on a teeny, lo-con black and white screen. Why do computer users ignore issues like fit and finish, elegant design (both hardware and software) and expect to pay NOTHING EXTRA for these qualities, yet admire (and perhaps purchase) a BMW or Lexus or the like without hesitating, spending 10's of thousands more for a car that really does 'exactly' what a neon or focus does, just not as elegantly. Yet somehow an elegant computer like Apple's, that might cost $300 more, is a CRIME AGAINST NATURE. What is this cheap mentality?
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Dickmeasuring and folding. Thats all it comes down to.
 
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