Xbox Series X (coming 10 Nov 2020)

[Macalicious2011]

I am fairly sure the bolded part isn't going to happen. Sony is going to customize whatever they work with AMD on and it will be separate from what MS is going to use. On the MS side they are going to push DirectSR which will just plug in whatever vendors upscaler is present on the system (as far as I am aware DirectSR doesn't actually handle upscaling itself).

Sorry I wasn't being specific enough. All three will not use identical ai technologies. However Sony's and AMD's partnership is a collaboration but it also allows both parties to independently modify/customise the technologies that will be in the shared library.

I think how this plays out will also be heavily influenced by UE, Unity and other popular engines. AI is only as good as the gaming engines that support and extensively implement it.

Another reason why deep collaborations make sense is because:
Sony are releasing more Playstation titles on PC.
Microsoft are releasing more Xbox titles on PC and Playstation.

Therefore it could be wasteful if an Xbox title need to optimised for entirely different upscaling technologies across devices.

 

[maflynn]

This can't be good for the platform
Microsoft planning ‘major’ Xbox layoffs next week

Microsoft is planning to cut jobs in the company’s Xbox gaming business, as early as next week. I first reported in Notepad earlier this month that Microsoft was planning Xbox layoffs “potentially by the end of the month,” and now Bloomberg says a round of “major layoffs” is due next week.

 

[diamond.g]

This can't be good for the platform
Microsoft planning ‘major’ Xbox layoffs next week

 

[piccolamela]

I love the gamer friendly way Xbox (console turning game platform) is going 🥰

• working on their own next gen console and handheld
• all while keeping Xbox console backwards compatibility going
• releasing their own games as play anywhere (PC and console)
• partnering with OEMs on handheld partnerships
• finally making WindowsOS gaming optimizations (performance and usability)
• allowing other launchers and game stores and integrating them (while not a new invention in itself and already available on Linux and Steam for example, but coming from Microsoft this is huge)

I'm holding off buying a gaming handheld however until I can get one where I can finally play my Xbox console games, as well as my PC games (hopefully with mods) on device, so no cloud streaming or using ROM workarounds.

 

[piccolamela]

This can't be good for the platform
Microsoft planning ‘major’ Xbox layoffs next week

I'm not worried for their gaming platform overall, that is clearly evolving positively (see post above) and basically the core part of their Xbox console turned platform strategy.

This particular layoff seems more focused on their own administration and distribution side of things and not primarily hitting game studios, especially developers for once.

I think this is another shareholder value thing first, maybe with a dash of actual organizational optimizations for once - since console and handheld hardware aside, I doubt there will be physical game distribution for next gen offerings anyway.

Even the PC and console games that still get a physical release, it's mostly been just a game authentication and download key with a base install, pretty much always requiring a huge day one patch.

Hope they do either make an optional disc drive or offer some sort of disc to digital conversion.

 

[MacRazySwe]

This can't be good for the platform
Microsoft planning ‘major’ Xbox layoffs next week

I'm currently hearing rumors that MS will stop selling the Xbox Series X/S consoles in Nordic retail stores from July. That's not looking good...

I remember the hype surrounding this generation being extremely strong in 2020. People paid way, way above MSRP to get their hands on the new consoles. Sure, one could argue that we had nothing else to do during Covid and quarantine, but I think there was definitely strong initial demand. Over time though, the generation has proven to be extremely lackluster with a lack of new exciting titles. I think MS and Sony really messed it up.

Five years later and it looks like handheld and mobile gaming is where it's at these days.

I think GTA 6 is probably the only title that can change this.

 

[maflynn]

I'm currently hearing rumors that MS will stop selling the Xbox Series X/S consoles in Nordic retail stores from July. That's not looking good.

They're making more money in with the games, and while the hardware was always a loss leader, the intent was to drive people to the console. Now that the games are available on PC, and playstation, there's no incentive to buy the xbox.

Tbh, I have one, and I was underwhelmed, I don't think it was the xbox's fault, I've too used to the playstation, but there's really no reason to buy the xbox at this point

 

[salamanderjuice]

They're making more money in with the games, and while the hardware was always a loss leader, the intent was to drive people to the console. Now that the games are available on PC, and playstation, there's no incentive to buy the xbox.

Tbh, I have one, and I was underwhelmed, I don't think it was the xbox's fault, I've too used to the playstation, but there's really no reason to buy the xbox at this point

Well there's Game Pass. I guess that's on PC for the most part too though.

And it has an IR receiver and more app selection like Kodi and VLC so it is better as a media box. But I don't think most people care about that. Quick Resume is great too when it works.

But yeah, not much. Also the recent price hike makes them extraordinarily bad value vs PS5.

 

[Macalicious2011]

I love the gamer friendly way Xbox (console turning game platform) is going 🥰

• working on their own next gen console and handheld
• all while keeping Xbox console backwards compatibility going
• releasing their own games as play anywhere (PC and console)
• partnering with OEMs on handheld partnerships
• finally making WindowsOS gaming optimizations (performance and usability)
• allowing other launchers and game stores and integrating them (while not a new invention in itself and already available on Linux and Steam for example, but coming from Microsoft this is huge)

I'm holding off buying a gaming handheld however until I can get one where I can finally play my Xbox console games, as well as my PC games (hopefully with mods) on device, so no cloud streaming or using ROM workarounds.

I wonder how they will do backwards compatability? Emulation or native? If it's the later will the console have a seperate chip?

Handheld have limitation. Less power and internal space. Furthermore older xbox titles don't support ai upscaling or frame generation. Therefore MS will need to develop that as the handheld like the Switch 2 will heavily rely on ai.

Then there is the question of physical copies! What to do with those? However xbox and steam have frequent sales. This makes it possible to buy a 5-15 year old game for the price of a Starbucks coffee or even less!

Now that the games are available on PC, and playstation, there's no incentive to buy the xbox.

This will hilariously flip when the new xbox consoles launch with a steam sttor front and possibly a PSN one. Then you can play PlayStation and PC titles on an Xbox.

Confusing times ahead!

 

[salamanderjuice]

I wonder how they will do backwards compatability? Emulation or native? If it's the later will the console have a seperate chip?

Handheld have limitation. Less power and internal space. Furthermore older xbox titles don't support ai upscaling or frame generation. Therefore MS will need to develop that as the handheld like the Switch 2 will heavily rely on ai.

Then there is the question of physical copies! What to do with those? However xbox and steam have frequent sales. This makes it possible to buy a 5-15 year old game for the price of a Starbucks coffee or even less!


This will hilariously flip when the new xbox consoles launch with a steam sttor front and possibly a PSN one. Then you can play PlayStation and PC titles on an Xbox.

Confusing times ahead!

Microsoft has never done backwards compatibility with a separate chip and I don't see them starting now. The Xbox developed handheld has supposedly been cancelled too.

I just see them not acknowledging physical games at all. They don't seem to care about them already.

And there's still plenty of Playstation titles that don't hit PC.

I can also see a lot of publishers not liking the idea of a "console" PC hybrid and refuse to let the Xbox version work on it.

 

[Macalicious2011]

And there's still plenty of Playstation titles that don't hit PC.

Correct. Furthermore some PC versions are released 1-2 years after PS version. However Sony has in the past year mentioned that they are keen on releasing more titles for PC on day one! i wonder how they feel about that now that MS strategy has changed. E.g you want to earn more revenue from PC sales, but you probably don't want prospective playstation customers buying an xbox instead if it can run the game.

Interesting future ahead for gaming.

I like Sony's approach of an optional disc drive. I hope that MS follows a similar approach.

 

[piccolamela]

I wonder how they will do backwards compatability? Emulation or native? If it's the later will the console have a seperate chip?

Handheld have limitation. Less power and internal space. Furthermore older xbox titles don't support ai upscaling or frame generation. Therefore MS will need to develop that as the handheld like the Switch 2 will heavily rely on ai.

I think they just might continue with emulation. After all Xbox360 games run on the current Series S/X consoles, because they built an Xbox360 emulator. These 360 games just run, while also allowing enhancements like FPS Boost, Auto HDR, and improved resolution for supported games.

Yes handhelds have limitations vs consoles, but that's missing the point. Xbox is becoming a gaming platform on multiple devices types. Other gaming handhelds already successfully exist. Simply don't expect a next gen console level performance from it and you will be able to enjoy games. Their recently announced ROG OEM partner handheld devices are basically the affordable entry point one (white one) and the more refined gamer who wants top notch hardware (black one), just like they did with the Series S and Series X.

Microsoft has never done backwards compatibility with a separate chip and I don't see them starting now. The Xbox developed handheld has supposedly been cancelled too.

I just see them not acknowledging physical games at all. They don't seem to care about them already.

And there's still plenty of Playstation titles that don't hit PC.

I can also see a lot of publishers not liking the idea of a "console" PC hybrid and refuse to let the Xbox version work on it.

their own Xbox handheld and next gen console was confirmed to be in works by Sarah Bond, the Xbox president during a recent video, that was after the unveiling of the OEM partner handhelds and reports of their own handheld supposedly being shelved/cancelled. It won't won't come in 2025, maybe not even 2026 however.

Why restrict yourself to a single platform, shrinking your potential user base and total paying customers ? - just think of all their third party developers and studios (EA's sports games and shooters). Even their own game studios mostly will go multi platform. Unless the studios/developers get big exclusivity pay checks or are really stretched thin resource wise it makes little sense financially. It's the games and services that bring the desired growth and recurring income, not the hardware sales.

There will be always opt outs for various reasons, see gamepass and play anywhere, but there's lots of studios/publishers jumping at the chance - unless it's Nintendo and their IP, but that's a different discussion all together.

Who knows maybe their new consoles have a locked down console mode - and an open PC mode - within one interface and launcher or something like that.

 

[Macalicious2011]

Who knows maybe their new consoles have a locked down console mode - and an open PC mode - within one interface and launcher or something like that.

Personally. I'm more keen to play xbox in PC mode. Current gen titles across PS5 and Series X have been a graphical disaster. Developers don't releavel whether there will be a 60fps mode. Then when the game launch you need to watch 3 hours of digital foundry and Daniel Owen. All to learn whether the game uses ray tracing, has 60fps mode that doesn't look like potato mode and then wait another 6-12 months for update that includes a new graphical option. Alternatively, you had to wait 18-24 months for a next gen update of an old title.

The PS5 Pro is no better. PSSR, Ray tracing implementation etc are all variable at the developers discretion. Therefore you don't know what the game will look like until after launch. This can make you feel a bit cheated if the game doesn't fully utilise the hardware of your console.

I think they just might continue with emulation. After all Xbox360 games run on the current Series S/X consoles, because they built an Xbox360 emulator. These 360 games just run, while also allowing enhancements like FPS Boost, Auto HDR, and improved resolution for supported games.

Do you how similar or dissimilar Xbox one titles are to PC ones? Would XBONE titles have to run in emulation?

 

[diamond.g]

Do you how similar or dissimilar Xbox one titles are to PC ones? Would XBONE titles have to run in emulation?

Recent titles are more similar than different (think unexposed settings). The older you go the more tricks were used to get games running well. Those tricks may not work on generic hardware.

 

[Macalicious2011]

Recent titles are more similar than different (think unexposed settings). The older you go the more tricks were used to get games running well. Those tricks may not work on generic hardware.

Interesting. I hope that the next Xbox will retain quick resume. It offers the biggest quality of life upgrade for gamers. You notice the impact for games that take a long time to load. It's amazing being able to resume right wehere you left. And, there are also games that don't have manual save. Quick resume is god sent for this, just power off the xbox. Next time you power on, you are where you last played.


Having owned my Series X since day 1, quick resume has only let me down once! So near bullet proof.

AMD will be busy creating:
CPU for desktops
GPU for PCs
SOC for Xbox
SOC for PS6
SOC of handheld PCs
SOC for PCs
SOC for handheld Playstation???

Hopefully games will be well optimised for all.

 

[diamond.g]

Interesting. I hope that the next Xbox will retain quick resume. It offers the biggest quality of life upgrade for gamers. You notice the impact for games that take a long time to load. It's amazing being able to resume right wehere you left. And, there are also games that don't have manual save. Quick resume is god sent for this, just power off the xbox. Next time you power on, you are where you last played.


Having owned my Series X since day 1, quick resume has only let me down once! So near bullet proof.

AMD will be busy creating:
CPU for desktops
GPU for PCs
SOC for Xbox
SOC for PS6
SOC of handheld PCs
SOC for PCs
SOC for handheld Playstation???

Hopefully games will be well optimised for all.

Quick resume for PC would be cool, but the hardware requirements seem high for a "generic PC". I presume publishers would be worried the game could be tampered with when you dump memory to disk.

 

[piccolamela]

Personally. I'm more keen to play xbox in PC mode... Developers don't releavel whether there will be a 60fps mode. Then when the game launch you need to watch 3 hours of digital foundry and Daniel Owen. All to learn whether the game uses ray tracing, has 60fps mode that doesn't look like potato mode and then wait another 6-12 months for update that includes a new graphical option. Alternatively, you had to wait 18-24 months for a next gen update of an old title.

Totally get your points regarding the cumbersome research and waiting for bug fixes and updates that improve stability and performance, even if my own minimum requirements for all my games aren't that high:

• running stable in the 30-40fps on Full HD 1080p or better with as nice graphics as I can get away with.
• Anything above is a bonus, but welcome.

I don't have the time nor the desire anymore to fiddle with my expensive hardware components, drivers, the annoying launchers and then the games still won't even start after hours of troubleshooting - looking at Ubisoft especially, with the Assassins Creeds, Riders Republic etc.
That's why I much prefer the "console mode" aka "it (mostly) just works" now days.

For a select few single player and older games I like to mod them however with quality of life improvements, improved visuals, lore extensions and such. That's why I would really love to have the best of both worlds (console + PC) on one device.

Do you how similar or dissimilar Xbox one titles are to PC ones? Would XBONE titles have to run in emulation?

I don't know anything about it, but according to an AI query specifically regarding the Xbox consoles:

• Original Xbox & Xbox 360 games run via emulation, meaning the Series X|S mimics the older hardware to play these games. Not all titles are supported—only those officially added to the backward compatibility program.
• Xbox One games run natively on Series X|S, since the architecture is similar. Many of these games benefit from enhancements like FPS Boost, Auto HDR, and higher resolutions.

Interesting. I hope that the next Xbox will retain quick resume. It offers the biggest quality of life upgrade for gamers. You notice the impact for games that take a long time to load. It's amazing being able to resume right wehere you left. And, there are also games that don't have manual save. Quick resume is god sent for this, just power off the xbox. Next time you power on, you are where you last played.

Love the quick resume function too for the same reasons as you listed. I don't think that's going away, at least on their own Xbox Hardware. They made it work on the current consoles and those are based on a version of windows with the Xbox thing running on top of it.


What I'm wondering mostly currently is:

SteamOS (Linux) and Xbox Series X/S boot up and shut down fairly quick, a regular Windows OS (with lots of legacy things, background services, drivers) can't do that currently.

So will their new Xbox devices be more like "it's a PC with a console mode" route or is it "a console that has a PC mode"? And regardless which way, does it require a reboot into that mode or can it be launched directly from whatever mode/environment that you are in?

Looking forward to learn more, even if it's probably in 2026 or later. Haven't been so exited for gaming hardware/OS developments in a very very long time.

 

[Macalicious2011]

Love the quick resume function too for the same reasons as you listed. I don't think that's going away, at least on their own Xbox Hardware.

It's a bummer that quick resume isn't avaiable on PC that DirectStorage wasn't widely adopted. I hope that the native Xbox consoles won't ditch it.

I exclusively use my gaming PC for gaming. I look forward to the Xbox version of windows and the prospect of installing it so that my PX feels more like a consoles. It's connected to my TV.

I still own my Series X. I hardly use it anymore with the exception of a few games that are on sale and are xbox only. I'm keeping it for GTA6. However once GTA6 is released on Pc i will likely sell the Xbox.

My ideal setup 3 years from now will be:
Gaming PC
Xbox handheld that i can also play in docked mode.

 

[Macalicious2011]

This is sad. Why buy all these studios to then shelve games and shut the studios down for a tax benefit write off.

It's a bummer that single player titles are being shelved. It's tragic that an increasing focus and investment will be on live service titles, "social gaming" and remasters.Thankfully there will be a steam store on Xbox going forward. This will provide access to PS and PC exclusive RPG titles.

Perfect Dark reboot and new Zenimax MMORPG reportedly cancelled as part of latest Microsoft cuts

The reboot of Perfect Dark developed by The Initiative has been cancelled as part of the latest round of cuts at Microsoft.

www.eurogamer.net

 

[diamond.g]

This is sad. Why buy all these studios to then shelve games and shut the studios down for a tax benefit write off.

It's a bummer that single player titles are being shelved. It's tragic that an increasing focus and investment will be on live service titles, "social gaming" and remasters.Thankfully there will be a steam store on Xbox going forward. This will provide access to PS and PC exclusive RPG titles.

Perfect Dark reboot and new Zenimax MMORPG reportedly cancelled as part of latest Microsoft cuts

The reboot of Perfect Dark developed by The Initiative has been cancelled as part of the latest round of cuts at Microsoft.

www.eurogamer.net

Tie up ip so it doesn't end up in competitors hands?

EDIT: to be fair the footage they showed for the Perfect Dark reboot basically all looked fake, so this isn't terrible surprising.

 

[Ethosik]

I’m tired of where we are in our capitalism society. I prefer capitalism but this is the bad endgame of it. Population decreasing so how else can companies expect to achieve their infinite growth? Layoffs. Doesn’t matter if you have record profits. That NEEDS to happen infinitely. Once every gamer has game pass and an Xbox, how else can you grow?

Layoffs and driving towards an AI future. This doesn’t look good. And all big companies are doing this. Apple included. Why do you think they are so stubborn about these lawsuits? Infinite growth means they need to do everything possible to maintain their App Store revenue until they legally cannot.

I hate where we are. I firmly believe things will be getting much worse. $80 games and I believe GTA 6 will push to $100 and others will follow. We are at a tipping point. I believe the AAA industry is about to crash.

 

[Macalicious2011]

Tie up ip so it doesn't end up in competitors hands?

Right now. The worst scenario for a studio that makes single player RPG, is to be aquired by MS.

Once every gamer has game pass and an Xbox, how else can you grow?

Dump some game studios in favour of audiences elsewhere. Like making an ai powered clippy for UK football fans:

Premier League announces partnership with Microsoft

Microsoft to become official cloud and AI partner for Premier League's new digital platforms

www.premierleague.com

 

[Pezimak]

Xbox is doing well, record profits, it’s best ever turnover and it has ‘chosen’ to replace many with Ai now. Its share price will only sky rocket upwards. I despise all that but it IS the truth I’m afraid.
Trouble is Sony and Nintendo will be watching, they’ll see Xbox is making more profit, share price is very healthy, and they are laying people off and cutting back on overheads…

They just have to make their customers pay, and any again and again and again. And MANY seem to be more than happy with doing just that. People have been conditioned to do that with mobile gaming business model, of endless ‘freemium’ games.