Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Xbox Series X (coming 10 Nov 2020)
- Thread starter gkarris
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
At £359, PS5 Digital Edition is making me rethink the £449 Series X.
Over time I think MS and Sony will make discs redundant by:
-Releasing some games exclusively digitally.
-Pricing Gamepass and PS Now so aggressively that you'd question buying a used game for even £20-25.
-Make quick resume exclusive to digital games.
What's good for MS is that they have headroom to drop the price of the Series X by £50 which I think they will do in the first year, or else the discless PS5 will become a default console.
Furthermore I don't believe the Series X will have the last word in this generation as there will inevitably be an Series X Pro or PS5 Pro, capable of 4k at consistent 120fsp in most games.
However what keeps me interested in the Series X is Flight simulator and Gamepass that will span across devices.
Over time I think MS and Sony will make discs redundant by:
-Releasing some games exclusively digitally.
-Pricing Gamepass and PS Now so aggressively that you'd question buying a used game for even £20-25.
-Make quick resume exclusive to digital games.
What's good for MS is that they have headroom to drop the price of the Series X by £50 which I think they will do in the first year, or else the discless PS5 will become a default console.
Furthermore I don't believe the Series X will have the last word in this generation as there will inevitably be an Series X Pro or PS5 Pro, capable of 4k at consistent 120fsp in most games.
However what keeps me interested in the Series X is Flight simulator and Gamepass that will span across devices.
the8thark
macrumors 601
The bigger question this holidays will be Series S or P5D or Switch. As they are all in the same price range.
None of them have the best tech out there but they are all around the same competitive price. I feel that's why MS and Sony are pushing their digital game subscription services and online backwards compat. They both know their launch lineups are lackluster at best and giving people an easy way to play the older games on the all digital consles really helps sweeten the deal.
Sure the Switch doesn't have 1440p or ray tracing. It has a very impressive game library at this point. A huge selling point. Add in portable play and you have a very compelling proposition.
Of cause the new consoles will sell well necause they are new. People like new shiny things. I'm also sure there are a lot of people waiting for that one (or two) console selling games they really want to take the plunge. Also the fact we've seen very little in game, gameplay footage direct from the consoles in question is concerning. I don't doubt the games will ship on time, I just think the best way to advertise a console is to show amazing gameplay footage direct from it. Without that, it makes the new consoles a harder sell.
For the disc editions they will come down to which one has the games you want to play. Despite the Series X having the beter overall hardware and PS5 having the better SSD, most people will choose based on the games. Also which ever one gets a price cut first will help.
Khalanad75
macrumors 6502a
I'll choose based on the hardware.
I saw a drastic jump from my OG XB1 to the XB1X. I am guessing I will see the same thing with my jump to the Series X.
I suspect a lot of the "it don't feel no different" are the people who don't experience it first hand, or don't have the technology (TV) to handle it.
marcg868
macrumors member
Series X for most likely after the pre order/Christmas rush. Still got loads of stuff on Gamepass to work through. I’ll probably pick up a PS5 in a few years if any of the exclusives take my fancy. But I’m addicted to Forza Horizon and love the Fable series so Xbox is a definite for me.
Only really enjoyed Uncharted on the PS if I’m being honest and GT Sport was a huge disappointment. So see how the new Gran turismo is and pick one up in a few years.
Only really enjoyed Uncharted on the PS if I’m being honest and GT Sport was a huge disappointment. So see how the new Gran turismo is and pick one up in a few years.
the8thark
macrumors 601
It's not about it feeling different. Of cause the Seriex X will have better visuals than the XB1X. A lot of people will feel the Series S is better value for money with what it offers and is good enough for what they want. Also those who have a 1080p TV or monitor will not get most of the benefits the Series X has to offer. Sure 1440p monitors are not too pricey, I got one for approx $400Aus. But a Series X + a 1440p or 4K monitor is out of the price range of many. However a cheaper digital box is really appealing to some.
I agree there is a segment of the gaming audience (ie the group that you fall into) who want the best of the best graphics out of their console. And that's fine, that's why the Series X exists. For many others they take other things into consideration. There's more than just the hardware to consider.
In reality, a Xbox 1 S Pro - that's what the Series S is in reality is not a bad box at all. It's 1080p visuals without all the issues of the outdated OG Xbox 1 hardware. The one catch is, folks who want the XB1X enhanced versions of their XB1 games on new hardware have to cough up the cash for a Series X. The Series S will not do this.
For those in the market for a Series S, as I mentioned above there's lot of options around that price point now. The competition is strong.
All of the above is completely untrue.
Series S is capable of 1440p at up to 120fps with HDR and Ray Tracing
Some of the previous gen games on Xbox or Playstation didn't even run at 1080p by developers choice in order to maintain a respectable frame rate.
The Series S is a completely different console to the previous generation. It's able to optimise power just for the elements that are visible on the screen. Therefore teraflop comparisons with the previous gen is not like for like.
The Series X is capable of 4k at up to 60fps. However some owners of the console might even run it at 1440p in order to achieve a frame rate of up to 120 on their 120/144hz displays.
The S is just less powerful because because it targets 1440p and not 4k. Games will be 30% smaller on the console because of this.
Lastly the new consoles support DirectML which uses AI to scale textures and text to look sharper and better defined. 1440p with DirectML or DLSSS upscaled to 4k is almost indistinguishable from native 4k but is less taxing on the CPU and GPU.
PS5 and Series might not even run at 4k/60p but use dynamic resolution down to 1440p for demanding scenes.
Honestly I cannot wait for side by side comparisons of the two consoles. In the meantime I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the Series S as One S Pro.
the8thark
macrumors 601
It is NOT completely untrue.
Lets start with this
Xbox Series S won’t run Xbox One X versions of backwards compatible games | VGC
Microsoft confirms cheaper next-gen console will run One S versions with its own enhancements…
www.videogameschronicle.com
Microsoft has confirmed that the Xbox Series S will not run Xbox One X Enhanced versions of backwards compatible games, and will instead run the Xbox One S versions of Xbox One and Xbox 360 titles with other beneficial features.
What you will get is enhanced versions of the games that do increase performance. That fix up frame rate and graphics issues that were present on the XB1S. The end result will be better than the XB1S for sure. But not at the level of the XB1X. For backwards compat most of the games will be 1080p. For next gen games though, you might get a decent number of them at 1440p, though most likely with dynamic resolution scaling at times.
In many respects the XB1X is more powerful than the Series S. Digital Foundry also claim this.
However what you say about what the Series is mostly true about the Series S specs. It's just your conclusion that I disagree with.
Lets compare the specs of both.
Xbox One X tech specs
The Xbox One X is obsolete, but if you want to check its specs, go nuts. We have them right here!
www.windowscentral.com
Xbox Series S specs list
The full specs breakdown for Xbox Series S, Microsoft's affordable new console headed into the next generation.
www.windowscentral.com
Thus my comment that the Series S is just a XB1S Pro still stands.
I do think a deep dive analysis of XB1X vs Series S for XB1 games will by very interesting to see once the Series S is launched. To see how much lower the Series S performance is and which extra features the Series S has that help it out.
Last edited:
It is NOT completely untrue.
Lets start with this
According to the articleXbox Series S won’t run Xbox One X versions of backwards compatible games | VGC
Microsoft confirms cheaper next-gen console will run One S versions with its own enhancements…
Microsoft has confirmed that the Xbox Series S will not run Xbox One X Enhanced versions of backwards compatible games, and will instead run the Xbox One S versions of Xbox One and Xbox 360 titles with other beneficial features.
What you will get is enhanced versions of the games that do increase performance. That fix up frame rate and graphics issues that were present on the XB1S. The end result will be better than the XB1S for sure. But not at the level of the XB1X. For backwards compat most of the games will be 1080p. For next gen games though, you might get a decent number of them at 1440p, though most likely with dynamic resolution scaling at times.
In many respects the XB1X is more powerful than the Series S. Digital Foundry also claim this.
However what you say about what the Series is mostly true about the Series S specs. It's just your conclusion that I disagree with.
Lets compare the specs of both.
Xbox One X tech specs
The Xbox One X is obsolete, but if you want to check its specs, go nuts. We have them right here!Xbox Series S specs list
The full specs breakdown for Xbox Series S, Microsoft's affordable new console headed into the next generation.
Thus my comment that the Series S is just a XB1S Pro still stands.
I do think a deep dive analysis of XB1X vs Series S for XB1 games will by very interesting to see once the Series S is launched. To see how much lower the Series S performance is and which extra features the Series S has that help it out.
MS use smart delivery in order for the right resolution of assets to be installed on their consoles. Instead of scaling down One X assets from 4k to 1440p for the Series S, they have decided to just run the One S assets in order to save time/resources.
For next generation games, the S and X will run assets for 1440p and 4k respectively both with ray tracing, HDR and variable refresh rate.
I wouldn't look at the backwards compatability as a definition of the capabilities of the Series S.
Can you share a quote?
Strange the pre-order announcement didn't reference the new consoles being available via Microsoft.com. I've gotta bunch of MS credit there ready to spend on a new console 🙂
Wicked. I have a £329 voucher to spend at curry's because the headband on my Sony XM3 headphones has broken. Because I am currently not commuting I will spend them the cash on a new console.
However I hedging my bets and will pre order at more than two retailers to ensure that I have a past time if covid19 restrictions increase in November and December.
garnerx
macrumors 6502a
I like Series S, I think it's a nice little machine, but *nothing* will run at 120 fps with ray tracing. Not on Series S, not on Series X, not even on a tricked-out PC with RTX 3080. (Unless they're making a ray traced version of Pac Man.)
Also, do they even make 1440p TVs? I think they've only chosen that resolution in the marketing because it sounds better than 1080p. Probably most people who own a 1440p 120Hz monitor also own a gaming PC that's more powerful than Series S, so the only place you'll see them is hooked up to a TV.
Everything is "up to" even for the Series X which will unlikely run at native TV resolution of 4k at 60fps with all bells and whistles all time. Dynamic resolution will could remain as prevalent as it was with on the PS4 Pro and One X.
Even the RTX 3080 experiene drop in frame rate during busy seens or is only able to achieve high frame rates with ray tracing if DLSS is enabled.
It will be up to the game developers to offer the "optimal" mix of resolution, target FPS, ray tracing, dynamic lighting and number of moving assets.
the8thark
macrumors 601
It's the overall feeling of this video. After you watch it, you'll understanding their overall feelings on the Series S.
Also I'm not basing it solely on backwards compat.
I agree with you the Series S on it's own is a very capable machine. Though the 1440p / 120hz / ray tracing sure the Series S will have them, but not all at the same time. More than likely the games will have performance modes and graphics modes. So on the Series S you are choosing between 1080p with ray tracing OR 1440p 60hz OR 1080p 120hz. Just my best guesses at what the performance and graphics modes will be.
Having all that at the same time? Even the Series X would struggle with that.
Not that I know of, but they do make 1440p PC Monitors...
1440p downscaled to 1080p looks slightly better than 1080p native...
The Monitor/TV market is tricky.
Most gaming monitors are 1440p, lack good HDR but have refresh rates of 100-240hz and are available in sizes below 43'
Most TVs are 4k, are max 100hz and only available in sizes 43'+ but have good HDR.
This is also one of the reasons why MS released two consoles. Some gamers care about 4k while others prioritise high frame rates over resolution.
Hopefully next year the market will be saturated with 4k, HDR, 120fps screens in sizes that suit all gamers. I would like 28-32inch flagship screen that doesn't cost as much as a 48 inch OLED TV.
Last edited:
Similar to me then. I have 49" non-hdr 4k with superb viewing angles and low rewponsentimr. It's also one of the very last dumb 4k. I use Apple TV 4k for smart features. Can't fault it!
In the office/future need cave I have a 24 inch 1080p TV which is showing its age will likely be the one replaced.
The ideal Series X TV will be one with:
-4k
-120hz
-Low response time
-HDMI 2.1
-G-Sync/Free Sync compatability
-HDR at min 400-600nits
I want planning on buying a new TV ahead of a new console arriving but will wait until next year when TV/Monitor manufacturers will squabble to appease gamers with PS5/Series X optimised screens.
The LG CX is probably the undisputed future proof TV but cost more than what I am willing to spend on a telly.
I'm all-digital on games but think the biggest reason for having one is 4K blu-rays. That's still the standard for home theater video/audio quality.
I just watched digital foundry’s latest video and it highlights that some games for the next gen consoles will likely offer offer several graphics/video settings like PC games.
The below variables can’t all be at max and need to be balanced against one another depending on the priority of the gamer or objective of the developer:
-Resolution
-Frame rate
-HDR
-Animations
-Dynamic lighting
-Shadow detail
-No of interactive/dynamic objects/players/enemies
-Texture detail
In a game like Fortnite or COD frame rate could be very important while in Flight Simulator 40-60fsp could be considered plenty if the visuals are drop dead gorgeous.
Several settings makes sense given the differences in the specs of screens e.g. resolution, HDR and frame rate. All of which tax the CPU and GPU.
What I appreciate most about Microsoft and Xbox is how scalable they are making their games. Therefore a future Xbox Series X Pro will be able to instantly exploit existing games through higher “settings” like a more powerful PC.
The below variables can’t all be at max and need to be balanced against one another depending on the priority of the gamer or objective of the developer:
-Resolution
-Frame rate
-HDR
-Animations
-Dynamic lighting
-Shadow detail
-No of interactive/dynamic objects/players/enemies
-Texture detail
In a game like Fortnite or COD frame rate could be very important while in Flight Simulator 40-60fsp could be considered plenty if the visuals are drop dead gorgeous.
Several settings makes sense given the differences in the specs of screens e.g. resolution, HDR and frame rate. All of which tax the CPU and GPU.
What I appreciate most about Microsoft and Xbox is how scalable they are making their games. Therefore a future Xbox Series X Pro will be able to instantly exploit existing games through higher “settings” like a more powerful PC.
the8thark
macrumors 601
@Macalicious2011
The Series X, though very good does not hold a candle to a top end GPU like the 3080. There will be a sizable difference between a top end PC and the Series X.
Also all the setting you mentioned will not be enabled at the same time. They will be sizable compromises. Expect graphics and performance settings on the games.
The Series X, though very good does not hold a candle to a top end GPU like the 3080. There will be a sizable difference between a top end PC and the Series X.
Also all the setting you mentioned will not be enabled at the same time. They will be sizable compromises. Expect graphics and performance settings on the games.
You will somewhat do this subconsciously when you set up your console for the first time e.g choosing the resolution, frame rate and HDR of your display.
Outside of that, games will likely have a default setting, the developer’s vision, which can changed to other graphics presets.
Choice isn’t bad and some causal gamers might never play around with the settings.
Yes. PCs are upgradable than consoles and will always have more headroom for better graphics.
garnerx
macrumors 6502a
I really hope they have a simple setting in the OS where you can say if you prefer performance (i.e. framerate) or quality (eye candy) and then have the console automatically apply that to every game that supports it.
There was a global setting on Xbox 360 for inverting the Y axis on the controller, but they removed it from Xbox One, for some bizarre reason. So the first thing I have to do on any Xbox One game is mess around in the controller settings, whereas on 360 I only had to do that the first time I set up the console.
(And every time I set up a replacement console when the damned things fried themselves.)