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iGary said:
No, I just think that a lot of people who get paid for their artistic, photographic, design (etc.) work (i.e. "professinoals") seek out the Mac platform, more so than PC's, so I think the term is fitting.

I dont' suppoes the name Mac Pro is going to dissaude you? :D :p

I think the term PRO is used far too gratuitiously in terms of software, computers, and other technology. I think it's really meaningless, since there's little correlation between an app or machine being called PRO and the user making money with it.

Lots of people make a living with stuff that doesn't have the "pro" stamp on it, and lots of people use the "pro" stuff for personal use. I think some people just get some sort of self esteem boost by insisting they're a pro.
 
AidenShaw said:
It seems more likely that the low end maxi-tower will be a dual-socket motherboard with a single Woodcrest installed.

The second chip could be a BTO option - or even an after-market upgrade like the other Intel vendors. :eek: (I have a small pile of Xeons that I've thrown out after getting faster ones from Newegg.com.)

What I've gathered through the rest of this thread is that a single woodcrest would have no advantage over a conroe, right? And isn't the woodcrest much more expensive? So if there is no advantage over the conroe, there wouldn't be a point in putting the woodcrest in. I suppose maybe if Apple did a BTO option for a second chip then it would make sense, but I don't see why one of the higher performing Conroe's wouldn't go into the lower-end Mac Pros.
 
it5five said:
What I've gathered through the rest of this thread is that a single woodcrest would have no advantage over a conroe, right? And isn't the woodcrest much more expensive? So if there is no advantage over the conroe, there wouldn't be a point in putting the woodcrest in. I suppose maybe if Apple did a BTO option for a second chip then it would make sense, but I don't see why one of the higher performing Conroe's wouldn't go into the lower-end Mac Pros.
You omitted my last sentence from the clip - which explains the apparent contradiction.

"I'm assuming that Apple will find a way to add more expansion to the maxi-tower. If it could hold 6 disks and 2 optical, then it would make sense to offer a single chip version for people who want to build a file server."

People would pay for the expansion of the larger box - not for the Woodcrest per se.
 
I've got a Woody !!

Actually, two Woodies!

The nice FedEx man delivered two Woodcrest servers to me right after lunch.

Xeon 5150 (2.66 GHz, 4 MiB L2, dual socket, dual core)
4GiB of RAM.

Just finishing the Win2k3 installations now. Oh boy!
 
AidenShaw said:
You omitted my last sentence from the clip - which explains the apparent contradiction.

"I'm assuming that Apple will find a way to add more expansion to the maxi-tower. If it could hold 6 disks and 2 optical, then it would make sense to offer a single chip version for people who want to build a file server."

People would pay for the expansion of the larger box - not for the Woodcrest per se.

Ah, I'm sorry, I did miss that. Clears it up. :)
 
iGary said:
Windows? Uh, no thanks, that's why I own a Macintosh. :rolleyes:

I completely agree with you, but there's no near term OSX solution to running dreamweaver and photoshop on the intel Macs at any kind of decent speed. I've little choice, unfortunately.

I would love a G5 powermac, but I can't justify spending nearly $2,000 at minimum for something that is going to be entirely eclipsed in the near future, excepting those 2 programs, which I don't rely on (yet) for a source of income.

Although the upcoming release of the Mac pro certainly doesn't make current computers any less usable, a lot of people seem to think so. If it works for you now (not *you* in particular, but others), then it will work after new technology comes out.

My reasoning behind wanting to buy the top end, hopefully woodcrest based Xeon Mac Pro in 2 months is that it will be as fast as I need it to be for the next few years. I've never owned a PC that could stay competitive for very long, especially since I used to be overly concerned with video gaming, which is not really something I'm very involved with any longer.

I want to learn more about Apple's pro apps through first hand experience, and possibly take up photography as a hobby in addition to music which is already a hobby of mine (and which logic pro would come in very handy for). All of those applications will run much faster on an intel Mac than they will on a powerpc Mac, so for me, since Photoshop is not really an *essential* tool in my daily life, I can deal with running windows to use it for 6 months if I have to, then enjoy the speed increases once it goes dual binary.

In a situation such as yours, where you (if I've read right around the forums) do photography for a living, then unquestionably I would stay with a G5 mac, especially until any yet-unknown bugs are worked out with the first revision hardware. Like I said earlier, it's not as if your current setup will become instantly worthless.

People need to learn that they should upgrade when it will seriously benefit their day to day activities, and more largely, their productivity. Things like a 30" display for heavy users of aperture, and a laptop for a newspaper columnist are pieces of technology that can literally save hours every week, which ultimately are priceless. Too often people shell out thousands of dollars so they can claim to have the higher GHz, or the higher framerate in a game, only to be begrudgingly leapfrogged within 6 months, to which they'll express their disdain on many tech forums. It's that mentality, I think, which needs to be curbed.

Sorry for the long post, just wanted to try to cover most angles.:)
 
it5five said:
What I've gathered through the rest of this thread is that a single woodcrest would have no advantage over a conroe, right? And isn't the woodcrest much more expensive? So if there is no advantage over the conroe, there wouldn't be a point in putting the woodcrest in. I suppose maybe if Apple did a BTO option for a second chip then it would make sense, but I don't see why one of the higher performing Conroe's wouldn't go into the lower-end Mac Pros.

The highEST performing Conroe will be the Extreme Edition but that will be MORE expensive than the top woodcrest. The costs of a different logic board or whatever (conroe/woodcrest not pin compatible) might offset the price advantage of the 2.66 conroe vs. the 2.66 woodcrest.
 
darrens said:
I'd like to see a mid-range Mac desktop - the Mac Mini and iMac are not really expandable (can't add a TV tuner card which is a common consumer use), and the Mac Pros won't be consumer/prosumer grade machines - they will be workstations.
Errr... I have a DTT USB tuner that works on anything I plug it into. PCI really isn't required for consumers these days. Even high end audio works with FireWire. Plus, the low end PowerMac has always been cheap enough if you need PCI.
 
Highland said:
Errr... I have a DTT USB tuner that works on anything I plug it into.
Sure, if you don't mind a wart hanging off your system.

Considering Apple's obsession with form, I'm surprised that so many people accept the idea of a mess of cables and dongles and boxes needed to provide base functionality that could be implemented inside the box.
 
Silentwave said:
The highEST performing Conroe will be the Extreme Edition but that will be MORE expensive than the top woodcrest. The costs of a different logic board or whatever (conroe/woodcrest not pin compatible) might offset the price advantage of the 2.66 conroe vs. the 2.66 woodcrest.


Uhhhh let's see

Xeon 5160(woodcrest)@3.ghz $850 x 2 = $1700
Dual CPU Motherboard $400-600 usd so let's say $400
now lets add that up $1700 + $400 = $2100 just for the CPU and Mobo

Core 2 XE(Conroe)@2.93ghz = $999 + $200(975x) for mobo = $1199

So you were saying?
 
Apple's Deep Discounts

jiggie2g said:
Uhhhh let's see

Xeon 5160(woodcrest)@3.ghz $850 x 2 = $1700
Dual CPU Motherboard $400-600 usd so let's say $400
now lets add that up $1700 + $400 = $2100 just for the CPU and Mobo

Core 2 XE(Conroe)@2.93ghz = $999 + $200(975x) for mobo = $1199

So you were saying?
I'm thinking Apple's price may be $1200 + $300 = $1500 so if they don't charge an arm and a leg for the rest, Intel Quad could still come in at a little over $3k like the G5 did. :)
 
Multimedia said:
I'm thinking Apple's price may be $1200 + $300 = $1500 so if they don't charge an arm and a leg for the rest, Intel Quad could still come in at a little over $3k like the G5 did. :)


I very much doubt Intel will sell those CPU to Apple at such a low price I say $1400-1500 is more realistic just for the CPU's , Intel may do the mobo for $300 i can see that happening. this will still be a machine costing well over $3000.
when you include the cost of all the other items (that fancy aluminum case alone should run about $200-250) then software , and of course Apple's Profit Margin.

I have said this a million time over if Apple is going for the Quad it wil do so on the high end only as the lower models will not be very profitable for apple, unless they want to make Dell like ultra slim margins.

Well it will be fun guys come Aug but I am till going to kick all ur arses with my Conore E6700 OC'd@3.6ghz + DFI or ASUS ATI Radeon 3200 Express(RD600 Chipset). The T-Minus 60 days and counting for BattleStar Vistica's Launch..lol
 
longofest said:
And if steve says that the new Mac Pros are 4x as fast as my Quad, I'm going to go down to Cupertino and punch him in the face.

Well, im glad you would do that... ive started so many threads regarding this rapid uncontrolable move to Intel cpus that my keyboard is on fire. Actually most will not admit that im right and i have great examples of people beeing very displeased with this rapid switch (G5 iMac to intel iMac, MBpros 15&17" etc.)
I feel very sorry for you longofest, i wish there are not more beeing so diepleased but i hope there are so that more complaints can be made and Steve understands some things.:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
 
zoran said:
Well, im glad you would do that... ive started so many threads regarding this rapid uncontrolable move to Intel cpus that my keyboard is on fire. Actually most will not admit that im right and i have great examples of people beeing very displeased with this rapid switch (G5 iMac to intel iMac, MBpros 15&17" etc.)
I feel very sorry for you longofest, i wish there are not more beeing so diepleased but i hope there are so that more complaints can be made and Steve understands some things.:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:


Do you have something against intel? i mean it pretty clear The can smoke anything IBM or FreeScale was going give our laptops. I mean maybe if IBM has tried a G5 mobile we could still be with them, but alas no dice. I'm beting Woodcrest will be able to stand its own against G5, even if the gain is not that much, it won't hurt anything, and the low end desktops and all laptop finaly got a chip that is not 7 years old!

Intel won.. its sad but IBM and FreeScale were not givening us anything on the low end Macs, and that were the $$ is.:(
 
zap2 said:
Do you have something against intel? i mean it pretty clear The can smoke anything IBM or FreeScale was going give our laptops. I mean maybe if IBM has tried a G5 mobile we could still be with them, but alas no dice. I'm beting Woodcrest will be able to stand its own against G5, even if the gain is not that much, it won't hurt anything, and the low end desktops and all laptop finaly got a chip that is not 7 years old!

Intel won.. its sad but IBM and FreeScale were not givening us anything on the low end Macs, and that were the $$ is.:(


Nope nothing against intel, im glad they are here, i have other problems, better read my threads to understand. people really fought me regarding my ideas on how the intel switch was made, i think wrongfully! If u want to continue on this subject come to my threads not in here.
 
Incase anyone was curious as to why the the Conroe Core 2 XE is clocked at 2.93ghz it's because of the FSB is Quad pumped at 266mhz and not 333mhz like WoodCrest/Xenon.


Core 2 XE X6800 is 266.5 x 4 for 1066FSB plus 11 x CPU Muliplier = 2.93ghz

Xenon 5160 is 333.5 x 4 for 1333FSB plus 11 x CPU Muliplier = 3.0ghz

The next(4th QT) Core 2 XE will be the X6900 12 x CPU Muliplier = 3.2ghz

Then the Monster(1st QT '07) Core 2 XE X8000 1333FSB plus 10 x CPU Muliplier = 3.3ghz
 
jiggie2g said:
Then the Monster(1st QT '07) Core 2 XE X8000 1333FSB plus 10 x CPU Muliplier = 3.3ghz

The first chips out will be nice, but they are a hold-over until '07. Once the second generation comes out with faster buses things are going to get real interesting.

I think the best times to buy into the Intel pro-line is Rev.B for the MBP and Coreduo 2 at WWDC. For the desktops, it's going to be around MWSF for Rev.B (Kentsfield). That is unless they go with Woodcrest, but I still think it's going to be too expensive. Interesting, over on the Apple Insider forums, the general concensus seems to be that the new desktops, other than the entry level, are all going to be Woodcrest. I don't know how going with Woodcrest can be made affordable (unless Apple goes with generic plastic boxes), nor do I think it's a good idea when Kentsfield is less than 6 months from August.

So, the question is, do we buy the first Desktops in August or wait 5-6 months to see what shakes out after MacWorldSF?
 
You'll never buy again...

THX1139 said:
So, the question is, do we buy the first Desktops in August or wait 5-6 months to see what shakes out after MacWorldSF?
You'll never buy again...if you decide to wait because something better is coming in 6 months.

You all are going to reconsider your buying habits. The old, secret Apple "lack of roadmap" doesn't apply anymore.

Now, you can see two or more years into the future - and buy with better knowledge of how soon your purchase will be slightly surpassed, or clearly surpassed, or made suddenly obsolete.

For the most part (excluding Merom suddenly clubbing Yonah to death) the change will be gradual.

Conroe is a big step, but just a step, from the Pentium D. It's faster, uses less power, but more or less does exactly the same thing.

Kentsfield (the "quad core Conroe") will be more or less the same as a dual-dual Woodcrest - but months later, and probably short in some areas (Woodcrest mobos will probably support more memory).
_________________________________________

No more "I'll buy a computer to last 5 years" - things are changing faster than that (unless, of course, in 5 years you'll do exactly what you do now with exactly the same programs).

Macs will become just as disposable as PCs. You'll buy them for what you plan to use them for, and as soon as something comes along that does what you need faster and better - Mac into the dumpster.

My advice would be to watch the Intel train go by until all your major apps are fat binary - then buy. (Unless at that time the situation is like today - a whole new line of chips coming out in the next month or two.)
 
I am hoping for a new powermac in Jan 2007 i would like to spend £1500 - edu discount

I hope for at least 4 cores, 1Gb ram and 256mb graphics card.

My current powermac dual 2ghz, 2.5gb ram, 256mb graphics for Photoshop and dreamweaver web development, so i dont need big speed like you video editors, but i want it!!

i would also like some cool new inivations, like Blue-ray and HD-DVD drives, faster hard drives, faster cables than SATA, and loads of other cool stuff only apple could imagine
 
AidenShaw said:
You'll never buy again...if you decide to wait because something better is coming in 6 months.

You all are going to reconsider your buying habits. The old, secret Apple "lack of roadmap" doesn't apply anymore.

(edit)

I pretty much agree with everything you said in your well written post. I don't think "waiting" to purchase a computer is ever a good idea if you are holding off for incremental upgrades on an established platform. However, if you are on a budget that allows for one purchase every 3-4 years, AND if there is a milestone change happening within 6 months, don't you think waiting can be worth it? For example, isn't buying Yonah (now) a bad idea with Merom looming on the horizon? That is a major milestone that's going to kill the Yonah (as you said in your post). The next milestone is the Macpro desktops (vs. buying the currently shipping G5). Beyond that, the next major milestone is probably Kentsfield and I'm contemplating if that is too far in the future to wait. Maybe it is, if I were to trust the first shipping versions of the desktops. However, waiting for Rev.B and Kentsfield may be worth it, so one can avoid being a hardware beta-tester for Apple this fall. I think that once the Intel transition is complete, and the hardware is on second revisions (as well as software released), then one can reasonably forecast hardware purchases, even though the chip turn-over is probably going to be quicker from now on. Anyway, I don't think the 'ol adage of "If you wait to buy, you'll wait forever..." applies in this transition year.

So, in that regard, when I say "waiting," I guess I mean that I'm waiting for the transition to complete and most of the bugs in the line-up worked out. That probably means '07 at the earliest unless I want to spend a lot of time on eBay. :D
 
Silentwave said:
so wait is there some law of physics that says that Woodcrest must be used in pairs?

No not really but Woodcrest requires a certain chipset that is more expensive then the chipset that supports Conroe.
 
Silentwave said:
so wait is there some law of physics that says that Woodcrest must be used in pairs?


No , However is make no sense to use a woodcrest unless u are going to use both sockets. The motherboard alone cost 2-3X what a Conroe Mobo would cost, plus the use of EEC ram which cost 25-30% more then regular DDR2.

Aside from cost there is also the simple fact that Woodcrest offers no performance advantage over Conroe(said this 100x times) in single socket setups.

take a look:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813182076
 
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