Zune Software Coming to Mac to Support Windows Phone 7?

[StealthGhost]

MP3 is not AAC. So, 256 kbps MP3 is not 256 AAC. Even within MP3, you have different qualities of encoders producing different results.

So, 256 kbps AAC isn't necessarily lower quality than 320 kbps MP3.
Can be lower, can be higher, can be the same. It's just not something you can compare simply by the numbers.

256 AAC doesn't meet the 5.1 requirements or whatever (there is a more technical term but it escapes me) does it? That is where I always run into problems. Even 128 sounds good on a MP3 player, but you put it in a really nice 5.1/7.1 system and you (well, I) want to pull my hair out.

I would think if it doesn't, then 320 MP3 would be better than 256 AAC when played in 5.1/7.1

 

[*LTD*]

Always good to get a bit more competition in the marketplace.

Competition = innovation, and hopefully lower prices.

I'm not sure what's really competitive about selling Mac users on pretend iPhones by offering them fake iTunes.

I can see the need for Office for Macs, so Macs can play nicely with bad MS bloatware that infests corporate ecosystems, but Zunes and their media management software is at this point superfluous. And if Ballmer T. Clown thinks *this* is the way MS mobile devices will proliferate among Mac users, he's even more delusional than previously thought. This is the same idiot that predicted the death of the Mac in a bad economy and the decline of Apple because people will get burned for paying for a logo. Except that as usual, he proved in that instance, as always, that old Billy G. made a really, really poor choice when it came to a replacement. At least he's funny to watch now and then. And he *does* make Apple look really good, too.

In any case, this latest attempt to sell the cream of the tech-using population on laughable Zune garbage-ware will be as successful as the product with the same name.

 

[carmenodie]

I hate to break it to the haters/morons, but the Zune software is completely fantastic and is miles ahead of iTunes in terms of presentation and ease of use. Combined with the Zune pass and you have a serious platform. I use an iPhone 4 but use the Zune HD as a pmp and MAN is it awesome. Best thing MS does IMO. In fact, being on OSX primarily, Zune is the only thing I miss not having. IF this is true, I consider it huge news. Goodbye iTunes if that is the case. No ifs, ands or buts.

If what you say were true then Zune, being the native mp3 player for the ubiquitous pc, would have surpassed the ipod. But it didn't.
And we're not morons. You better check yourself little boy! Check your mouth! What I've noticed is that you anti Apple geeks evangelize bells and whistles to us Apple fanboys. Why bother?
I have the new nano with 16 gigs and it is awesome. Why the ******** do I need to buy a freaking Zune? Why? Because of their fancy, over the top UI?
Child please! Save your breath man.

 

[StealthGhost]

why do I want a wall paper on my iPod?

The wall papers I use on my Zune really make it look great, I don't think the iPod UI would look very good with a wallpaper, so they didn't include the ability.

I did a test with iPod and a Zune with some people to check the difference, Ipod was considered the best sound.

I wasn't talking about the actual device's quality, but rather the iTunes store vs the Zune marketplace qualities. With that being said, there are some basic adjustments on my Zune that I remember wasn't on the comparable iPod at the time, and mine has always sounded better to me than iPods I have listened to.

 

[nep61]

What's funny (and a little scary) is that MS is still pushing this obvious failure. It's an answer to a question no one asked. It's quite telling about the company as a whole these days.

Well stated !
+1
Have read pages of comments on this thread... MS bashing, Apple Love, MS supporters, Apple haters.... but your quote is right on the mark.

 

[cleanup]

Who manufactured the Zune HD? That thing was attractive AND solid. Most of these WP7 phones on the other hand look like half-assed efforts by other manufacturers. Microsoft should have licensed a single company to manufacture it themselves, and do it well. This is why Android did well. Good hardware.

 

[nep61]

Always good to get a bit more competition in the marketplace.

Competition = innovation, and hopefully lower prices.

Huh? iTunes is free... And if MS charges for this NEW software, you can bet it will fail as fast as the Zune failed.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I have a Zune sitting right here on my bookshelf. I got it from a Microsoft employee as a gift. I tried to use it, tried to get it to work and fill it with music and gave up because it was so non-intuitive...

I remember being at a local Macintosh user group meeting many years ago and sitting through a demo of the first version of software that would allow for Windows to run on a Mac. As the demo progressed, the presenter was having issues and the Mac 'bombed'. I made a comment about this happening with a lot of nasty viruses and got a chuckle out of the audience.

I spoke to a person that I knew (friend of a friend) about mp3 players after running into them in the local store and explained the differences between the many players and ended up recommending the iPod for ease of use. Well, you had thought that I was advocating killing and eating their children by the reaction that I received from them. I explained that the iPod with iTunes was as close to 'plug and play' as you could get and they still dug in their feet against the iPod.

I ran into the mutual friend who wondered what I said to this guy. His friend was not impressed with me and wondered my sanity. I explained what happened and he laughed. A few months later I ran into him again and he told me about that guys issues with his Sansa player and how much help he needed to get it working and how unsatisfied he was and yet still how dead set against an iPod he was...

Some people can be led to water, but insist on making the drinking of the water such a hard process that it barely makes it worthwhile...

The idea of Zune on a Mac is making me wonder what kind of person would have a Mac and then think that a Microsoft Zune would be a winning choice, but it takes all kinds I guess...

I want technology to work FOR me, not AGAINST me... I love my iPods... Call me a 'fan boy' if you want, but I don't have the time to constantly futz with something to make it work. It works or it doesn't and if it doesn't, it joins the Zune on my bookshelf.

Sorry to be so long, but this has to hurt Microsoft. Having to offer support on the platform of your deadliest competition to save your bacon...

 

[Salacion]

I'm not sure what's really competitive about selling Mac users on pretend iPhones by offering them fake iTunes.

I can see the need for Office for Macs, so Macs can play nicely with bad MS bloatware that infests corporate ecosystems, but Zunes and their media management software is at this point superfluous. And if Ballmer T. Clown thinks *this* is the way MS mobile devices will proliferate among Mac users, he's even more delusional than previously thought. This is the same idiot that predicted the death of the Mac in a bad economy and the decline of Apple because people will get burned for paying for a logo. Except that as usual, he proved in that instance, as always, that old Billy G. made a really, really poor choice when it came to a replacement. At least he's funny to watch now and then. And he *does* make Apple look really good, too.

In any case, this latest attempt to sell the cream of the tech-using population on laughable Zune garbage-ware will be as successful as the product with the same name.

Oh LTD, how I love your undisguised, undying love towards Apple.

But in this case, you are right.

 

[Salacion]

I ran into the mutual friend who wondered what I said to this guy. His friend was not impressed with me and wondered my sanity. I explained what happened and he laughed. A few months later I ran into him again and he told me about that guys issues with his Sansa player and how much help he needed to get it working and how unsatisfied he was and yet still how dead set against an iPod he was...

It's funny how people are, with their principles based on... well nothing.

In my case, I'm dead set on never touching another Microsoft product, but this is from experience. Everything I have ever owned by MS has died on me. You use microsoft because you have to, and with Apple it's just the opposite.

 

[i.e.Mac]

I can say I've had a peaceful, albeit begrudged relationship with Zune's I've experimented on for some time. I've LOVED my iPod but I'm not above tasting foods of different cultures so to speak. I started off with the Brown 1st gen I belovingly named "S##tbrick", and moved down the line with a few 4/8GB 2Gs and a Zune HD. (named Bloodbrick for the red 4GB Charbrick for the 8GB and Charbrick Touch for the HD for anyone (not) intereted,

So I am a committed lifelong Apple user/lover with some perspective here, and I'll merely say this.

The Zune software is a mixed pain. I hear people saying how "advanced" and "superior" it is to iTunes. I'm sorry, but a philosophy of "cram as many shiny and nifty things into one little package with little to no substance" is not a valid software philosophy. (looking at you, Vista) It looks nice, sure. But it's all about efficiency. And the software just tries to be too many things at once. Excuse me! I was in the middle of trying to sync some new music onto my damn device! I don't give a high holy DAMN what the fricken band is eating for lunch at that particular moment. I just want to get the music, on to my device and get the HELL out of Windows. Is this TOO MUCH TO ASK?!

But it seems this discussion has traversed to the Zune devices themselves.
First, The 1st Gen Zunes are... again, it's the 2004-2008 Microsoft philosophy.
Pack it full of unneeded features and a big screen, never mind the actual resolution of the thing was the same as the iPod Video, which we in the biz call (or at least at this stage in technilogical development, used to call) pixel stretching. The screen quality was marginal at best, but it was what everyone banked on. The boxes they came in were pretty cool though...

2G Zunes were solid enough, and mounted a nice little refuge for the "anything but iPod" crowd to sink their teeth into. I kinda enjoed using the squircle pad, unless it came to browsing my considerable music library, which quickly became akin to treating the thing like a lottery ticket. Sure there was a search function, but I'm male and therefore NEVER ask for directions. As for video playback, the 80 offered a suitable viewing real estate the 4/8 GB were a joke.(good luck getting the damn videos on the device itself though. Woof. Again, the PAINS of Zune software. At least for me. Yes. On a side note, one thing that always caused my inner Apple fanboy some mild amusement/frustration was how Microsoft cheated on screensize. You see the devices turned off and their screens look massive (as the glass panels were of respectable size) but the actual LCD screen was quite a bit (in the case of the Nano wannabes considerably) smaller that the pictures would lead you to believe.

As for the HD, ahhh the HD. Redmond's last stand in the MP3 market. What a sweet story too, what with the device being dedicated to a dearly departed developer or somesuch. Brings a proverbial tear to the eye. And certain aspects of the device are appealing. HD radio that sounds pretty sweet, The screen quality on the thing is damn near sexual. BUT, it's the size that irked me. This thing (you've seen it no doubt) is Itteh Bitteh. (We're talking Myron Reducto shrinky dink!) The clunky web browser and limited capabilities on the thing (need I mentioned the utterly abandoned App catalog) just make it have that distinct....well...you know. Just-short-of-the-mark Microsoft Feel.

That and in my opinion, anybody either of the Apple camp, or MS who compares the Zune HD to the iPod touch needs their head promptly caved in with a toaster. These devices can not be compared, because of one simple fact.

The iPod touch is a pocket palmtop computer.
The Zune HD is a music/video player.

While Apple has made steps to integrate it's iPod line to pioneer the future of portable electronics, MS is perfectly happy to settle in explored territory and play it safe, which results their...lackluster products.

Oh, but never mind me. I'm just some stupid Machead freak show who's addicted to disposable toys and fooled by Apple's shinyness. Must obey the Jobs.... Obedience brings victory, and victory is life...

 

[carmenodie]

I can add a +1 to the Zune software being far far better than iTunes.

As far as hardware, I still own the original Zune working fine, never had a problem.

At the time I bought it for a few reasons over an iPod

Lower cost (I think 50 dollars less?) for same size
Better screen
Video playback that is actually watchable unlike on the square iPod screen
Wireless sync (do iPods even have that yet? not sure)
FM radio
Better looking (white looked too girly and black just didn't do it for me, too plain)
Customizable wallpaper or whatever on it

Also, not huge but the Apple ear buds are crap, the ones that came with my Zune are amazing.

The iPod touch was the first iPod to even come close to my Zune imo, and by then there were newer Zunes and the iPod wasn't in the same price bracket.

I can't speak to Zune HD vs iPod touch now, but using both iTunes and the Zune software extensively, the Zune software is far superior. Is iTunes marketplace tracks still only 128 Kbps or did they finally fix that? That was a pretty big one as well, anything below 320 MP3 isn't going on my system.

More Southern Baptist bells and whistles evangelism. Ha ha!
You really are boring me with that sh**!
Ballmer said, after the ipod was introduced back in 2001,the ipod was expensive and a joke! Then the ipod took off and MS didn't answer(they always have to answer,right?) ipod until 2006!!!!!!!!!!!! 5 effing years later. By that time Apple showed the world how to market an mp3 player. Apple did all the marketing and management for MS in a sense. LOL!

So at the point and time that MS dropped the Zune, they never had to go through the bumps and bruises competing with the ipod for 5 years.Never upping the ante on design and usability. They came into an already saturated market. And what really pissed me off is how MS tried to demonize Apple's ipod once they dropped the Zune.
Too expensive. Draconian, closed system.
Who the ******** did they think they were? Where was MS during the start of the ipod craze? They sat on the sidelines like little girls!!! Then boom! Zune.
But of course the attack on Apple was just a marketing tool to create distance between the Zune and ipod.
I have no respect for MS or that tired a** Zune player. I saw it in my local Office Depot and hated it. Just like I hate that nasty Google tv. Bells and whistles up the butt for no damn reason

 

[PlipPlop]

Who manufactured the Zune HD? That thing was attractive AND solid. Most of these WP7 phones on the other hand look like half-assed efforts by other manufacturers. Microsoft should have licensed a single company to manufacture it themselves, and do it well. This is why Android did well. Good hardware.

Yea the Zune HD is so well made, much better build quality than the ipods. Everyone I know has had an ipod break on them at least once. Crazy thing is they just buy another one. Same with macbooks!

 

[HLdan]

I can add a +1 to the Zune software being far far better than iTunes.

As far as hardware, I still own the original Zune working fine, never had a problem.

At the time I bought it for a few reasons over an iPod

Lower cost (I think 50 dollars less?) for same size
Better screen
Video playback that is actually watchable unlike on the square iPod screen
Wireless sync (do iPods even have that yet? not sure)
FM radio
Better looking (white looked too girly and black just didn't do it for me, too plain)
Customizable wallpaper or whatever on it

Also, not huge but the Apple ear buds are crap, the ones that came with my Zune are amazing.

The iPod touch was the first iPod to even come close to my Zune imo, and by then there were newer Zunes and the iPod wasn't in the same price bracket.

I can't speak to Zune HD vs iPod touch now, but using both iTunes and the Zune software extensively, the Zune software is far superior. Is iTunes marketplace tracks still only 128 Kbps or did they finally fix that? That was a pretty big one as well, anything below 320 MP3 isn't going on my system.

When I see such a biased post like this (especially without full explanation of why the Zune software is so much better than iTunes, even though nobody uses it) coupled from a brand new forum member all I can ask is, how much is Microsoft paying you?

 

[carmenodie]

Yea the Zune HD is so well made, much better build quality than the ipods. Everyone I know has had an ipod break on them at least once. Crazy thing is they just buy another one. Same with macbooks!

So maybe that's why the xboxes were breaking on you little MS fanboys. ROD!!!! MS put all their quality control into the Zune. Ah that's it.

 

[RedWeasel]

256 AAC doesn't meet the 5.1 requirements or whatever (there is a more technical term but it escapes me) does it? That is where I always run into problems. Even 128 sounds good on a MP3 player, but you put it in a really nice 5.1/7.1 system and you (well, I) want to pull my hair out.

What do you mean with 5.1 requirements? Both 320 kbps and 256 kbps AAC will usually be Stereo only, not 5.1 and not 7.1

If you are talking about being high fidelity, there have been lots and lots of double blind listening tests on high end equipment, and I think pretty much no one has been able to tell the difference between AAC 256 and uncompressed CD audio reliably.

Maybe they heard differences, but they couldn't tell which is which ;-)

Google for "blind abx test" if you're interested in the topic or want to test yourself

 

[Rot'nApple]

In MR's 2nd Update, the one sentence reply from MS,... Did MS just subliminally call Mac users a "tool"?!...

 

[carmenodie]

In all seriousness, if this news is true and the final product is good then it means that I would actively consider a Windows Phone 7 device. I have no real loyalty to Apple except that I absolutely refuse to work on a Windows PC so whatever devices I buy must play well with a Mac. This typically means that only Apple's own devices are considered but if Microsoft delivers the goods then I'd be perfectly happy to consider a Windows Phone 7 device if it measures up well to the likes of the iPhone and Android.

first up MS doesn't make the hardware for those winmo phones. They could careless.
MS really thinks, narrow minded corner office schmucks, that they are going to trip up the iphone crowd with them nasty a** LG and HTC phones? Child please.
And god knows those phones are meant to be tossed out very few months. LG for instance isn't in any positioned to aid a consumer using their phone on a mac. Neither is Moto or HTC. None of them even have customer service.If you have a compatibility issue using your HTC on a Mac who the hell is going to resolve the problem? Yo mama?
Sh**!
MS can't expect 3rd party celly makers to play nice with mac. Ever!
They are only concerned with moving vast amounts hardware. That is their end game. They can't lick Apple's sweat!

 

[PlipPlop]

So maybe that's why the xboxes were breaking on you little MS fanboys. ROD!!!! MS put all their quality control into the Zune. Ah that's it.

I made no mention of xbox

 

[PowerGamerX]

I'm just about ready to never visit these forums again (well, at least on the news articles). Microsoft has put out very decent stuff the last 2 years. The newest versions of Offices are better for most people (though, I prefer the old interface). Windows 7 is wonderful, I like it just as much as Snow Leopard. The Zune HD is in my opinion, a lot better than the iPod, but software for it might not be, I haven't used one in a while.

You know, there are a lot of things to like about both, but everybody here thinks that drinking this kool-aid means you have to miss out on the grape soda on the other table.

Anyway, I'm just glad that Microsoft is giving the option to people who want to use a Zune on a Mac. I have a friend that does just that right now through some home-brewed software.

Oh yeah, I'm actually happy with my Windows Mobile 6.5 device right now, despite the resistive display, its a decent phone. *hides behind shield*

Also, just for the record, Steve is the worst person Bill could have chose. Somehow, they've gotten better though. So I don't know.

 

[StealthGhost]

When I see such a biased post like this (especially without full explanation of why the Zune software is so much better than iTunes, even though nobody uses it) coupled from a brand new forum member all I can ask is, how much is Microsoft paying you?

Why exactly do you single my post out instead of the one line zingers against Microsoft or the Zune?

Anyways, it really isn't biased, when I was shopping for a mp3 player those are the things that made be buy the Zune. I never said "Mac sucks Zune for life" or anything, like may posters have done in reverse, and I had a lot of experience with both mp3 players before choosing, something many people who are putting down both the Zune and iPod probably can't truthfully say.

As far as software goes, iTunes gets the job done. I have a shuffle, and adding music to it is a breeze and it is great at keeping the software up to date and everything. The problem is, the look of iTunes is just so plain and uninspired to me that when I put some music up on my computer to play at lets say a party or something, it is just a list of songs. Zune on the other hand, has great album art presentations when you leave it alone, kind of like a screen saver. If you're navigating it, you can do it in a few different ways. You can do it in a list mode similar to iTunes, but with better cover art presentations and better looking format, text, etc. You can also navigate in a different way from which is a really cool kind of virtual way. This is all hard to explain in text, but you can probably get a feel with videos or screen shots if you find some.

Lastly as some have pointed out, iTunes doesn't run very well on PC. My PC can handle it so it doesn't really lag it, but my old laptop had a lot of trouble with iTunes. Looking at it right now, Zune is using about 7% less CPU and I have it in the virtual play mode. iTunes runs without issue on OS-X usually, but there isn't any comparison on CPU usage obviously.

My post count is so low because this is the first topic I've posted in. I frequent Macrumors, but until now didn't really have anything to add in the comments and usually there isn't any reason for me to read them. I assumed the Zune would get some harsh treatment, this is a spot for Apple product news, so I wanted to add my 2 cents as someone who at least has a lot of experience with iTunes and Zune software, and with the first gen Zune.

 

[hayesk]

256 AAC doesn't meet the 5.1 requirements or whatever (there is a more technical term but it escapes me) does it? That is where I always run into problems. Even 128 sounds good on a MP3 player, but you put it in a really nice 5.1/7.1 system and you (well, I) want to pull my hair out.

I would think if it doesn't, then 320 MP3 would be better than 256 AAC when played in 5.1/7.1

Huh? You are equating more channels with better audio fidelity? That doesn't make sense. 128 will reveal limitations on a good 2 channel stereo system too, so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

Also, 256 or 320 are 2 channel files, so well, sound only coming out of two speakers on your surround system may make you want to pull your hair out, but it's really irrelevant to the bit rate of the file.

 

[hayesk]

This is a good idea, actually. In Canada, you can't buy an iPhone without lining up every morning in hopes that the store has received a shipment that day. Most people don't have that kind of time.

So, if you need a phone, can't buy an iPhone, what do you do? Go without a phone? Or try the competition?

 

[StealthGhost]

What do you mean with 5.1 requirements? Both 320 kbps and 256 kbps AAC will usually be Stereo only, not 5.1 and not 7.1

If you are talking about being high fidelity, there have been lots and lots of double blind listening tests on high end equipment, and I think pretty much no one has been able to tell the difference between AAC 256 and uncompressed CD audio reliably.

Maybe they heard differences, but they couldn't tell which is which ;-)

Google for "blind abx test" if you're interested in the topic or want to test yourself

"The quality for stereo is satisfactory to modest requirements at 96 kbit/s in joint stereo mode; however, hi-fi transparency demands data rates of at least 128 kbit/s (VBR). The MPEG-2 audio tests showed that AAC meets the requirements referred to as "transparent" for the ITU at 128 kbit/s for stereo, and 320 kbit/s for 5.1 audio."

I think that was it, it wasn't anything I was super interested in, or made me think that AAC was bad or something, I just remember it not being "transparent" or whatever at lower than 320kbit/s. I never really looked into it much, because I never heard about iTunes going better than crap 128, and I only get 320kbps MP3 or sometimes FLAC

 

[dgree03]

I'm not sure what's really competitive about selling Mac users on pretend iPhones by offering them fake iTunes.

I can see the need for Office for Macs, so Macs can play nicely with bad MS bloatware that infests corporate ecosystems, but Zunes and their media management software is at this point superfluous. And if Ballmer T. Clown thinks *this* is the way MS mobile devices will proliferate among Mac users, he's even more delusional than previously thought. This is the same idiot that predicted the death of the Mac in a bad economy and the decline of Apple because people will get burned for paying for a logo. Except that as usual, he proved in that instance, as always, that old Billy G. made a really, really poor choice when it came to a replacement. At least he's funny to watch now and then. And he *does* make Apple look really good, too.

In any case, this latest attempt to sell the cream of the tech-using population on laughable Zune garbage-ware will be as successful as the product with the same name.

You good for at least laugh a day! I love your blanket statements without any factual information to back it up!

Office bloatware? Name a better solution for corporate environments?
Cream of the tech using crop?? Any facts to backup that asisine statement? My mom uses an iphone, I dont consider her techie at all!