GayWay - the gay and lesbian discussion (aka. Any Gays here?)

Chip NoVaMac said:

Once I came out in 77 or 78, I looked upon being Republican and Gay much like being Black and belonging to the KKK or voting for Wallace after the stand-off.

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You hit the nail on the head Chip.

Chip NoVaMac said:

I understand the father thing. Mine was one though that would not talk about emotions. My Dad's acceptance of my boyfriends came with unspoken knowledge that there would be no outward signs of affection (including couple banter). Everything was OK as long as it was just three guys having some grub, a brew or two, and watching what ever game was on the telly.

I took this as a victory after an estrangement brought on by my sister. We did not speak for like 4 years. During those fours years I found comfort in the Gay Community. I worked as a volunteer for the W-W Clinic in DC on the Hotline, and as a spokesperson in the early days of AIDS. I went on to create the first BBS dedicated to AIDS and STD's for Gays (SAIN- Sexually-transmitted diseases Aids Information Network). My role as spokesperson for W-W and the founder of SAIN gave way to many media interviews (local TV, CNN, and the Washington Post). With each viewing my sister said my Dad went into a tirade about his "****** son". Would have never known after he and I patched things up.

In fact after he died, I found in his personal papers the newspaper clippings featuring me. These were found with other clippings of my JHS and HS theater work; but as well as his own brushes with fame as a police officer at DCA and with the US Marshals Service. In seeking final peace, I took away that in some small way he was proud that I was trying to make life better for others.

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That's a really great story. Thanks for sharing.

aboutthat said:

I'm glad to hear that things worked out well in the end; the best counsel I've ever gotten from friends is just to give things time. It's a bit frustrating (also a little selfish in a sense) to want everyone else to just be OK with it because I've come out; it's like you're ready to drive somewhere new and drag other people along for the ride when they're still not quite ready to get in the car. But giving time/space is definitely necessary, I think it's just finding what steps to take to gently push the comfort zone to induce a bit of change. Still workin on that one

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Well said. Like I admitted, in the end I can only hope that there was some pride there. His best friend from the USMS was with me as I came across the clippings and other things. Not sure that he was trying to make me feel better in a time of deep sorrow, or was being honest - but he did say that my Dad was proud that I stood up on my own two feet, and feared nothing in achieving what I felt was right (though I did fear my Dad's acceptance). If anything my dad may have been "hurt" that in my first TV appearance (at a Gay Pride Day parade) I followed the drag queens in discussing the importance of AIDS education when it was lacking from our government at the time.

Once one comes out, you find out who your true friends and family are. Despite the rocky coming out to the relatives and family, I got a call from my Mom on a dinner that I had planned for my parents and my Dad to share with my lover - who they had met. She called to cancel, since my uncle, Father Stan (a priest) had payed surprise visit. I told her that she taught me well on cooking (always plan on guests) and to have him come up with them (I already had come out to him - and he was praying to Virgin Mary daily for my redemption). With him being a priest, he was considered to be the patriarch of the two families. So I asked him to do the blessing of the meal.

Good thing I had nothing in my mouth when he said, and "bless Chip and Doug as they share a new place and life together"! For my Mom would have been where dinner or the wine (which I did take a big gulp of after the blessing of the meal).

In regards to W-W; I had wanted to volunteer doing some sort of hotline thing, but couldn't find anything in DE. But considering I go to school in DC, it could work. Do you still volunteer there Chip or know if they still run such a program? Being able to be there for people going through the same stuff that we found so difficult and strange and telling them they're not alone has always been something I've wanted to do.

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Not sure. W-W and I severed ties many years ago when money and compensation became an issue. I had issues with the ever increasing compensation to Jim Graham (now a DC council member) and others. I had been working to severe the relationship with a friend that hosted SAIN for me in order to provide broader access (along with other issues of content of the other parts on which SAIN was hosted).

In fact it was my first dealings with Apple. They had a community grant program. And they expressed interest in providing funding an expanded SAIN (BTW - the acronym of SAIN was chosen (a little by accident). It turns out that it means "To sanctify; to bless so as to protect from evil influence."). W-W was hedgy on pursuing this at the time. There was a competing BBS in SF. And there were feelings that they could not provide the one-on-one support that SAIN had been trying to provide. Despite my outreach to NIH and my early contacts and help from Dr. Fauci and the NIH in getting information out.

It is my view, that at the time I was a threat to funding. For I worked 40 hours doing a job to pay the rent and bills, and spent at least an equal or greater amount of free time doing Hotline and SAIN work. By that time the Gay Pride Day had grown to a point that it was not just a "block party", but a potential money maker. The grass-roots nature of what founded the W-W was beginning to erode.

Witness today that the W-W is so bloated that they are now facing cutting of services to the areas outside of DC area.

More to your point though (sorry it took so long - but it was a minor part of Gay history in DC of that time), the internet IMO has replaced the telephone based Gay Hotline. Just witness my own, and others, threads of issues that some of us face in life.

No longer do Straights or Gays get one perspective on the issues facing them. I know I have try to offer support to Straight members with relationship issues, from my perspective. And Straights have tried to provide support for me as a Gay male from their own perspective.

If you do decide to come to the DC area, I welcome to join me to try and find a NEW grassroots endeavor that can help the Gay community. One that is not wrapped around being part of a walk or parade that others make money off of.

Daveway said:

That's a really great story. Thanks for sharing.

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Thanks Dave. I shared only because I come from a different generation. I turned 47 just last week. And I learned from my elders (both biological and community based "family"). I read with interest the trails and tribulations of my "younger" peers. In some ways I wanted to let them know the hardships us "old" folk faced paved the way for a better future.

Your own parents benefited in some small way from what my parents and I went through. Just as I benefited in my own ay for what my parents went through growing up.

It took some two hundred odd years for African-Americans to come as close to the "table" as they have. Let us hope that Gays and Lesbians will have to wait that long for the basic rights that so many others enjoy under the "law of the land".

Sure there are "bigoted" parents. It is how we chose to deal with that, that determines our own self worth. In my case I never backed down from my core beliefs that my own parents tried to instill in me. And I can only believe that it was because of my parents upbringing of "doing what is right", that whether my Mom and Dad liked my choice in life, they knew they did well in raising their son.

For their son knew the difference between right and wrong. For their son saw people in the need of help, and did what he could to comfort others. For their son sought to spend his life with one person that truly loved him. They may have had issues wit their son's path; just as I have issues with the direction of some of the youth today (look for the under 18 thread on the Mac setups).

Each generation comes away with their own prejudices. Some are social. Some are racial. Some are economic. But if we can put these aside, we can become a better people. and as a better people, we can grow as a nation IMO.

Chip NoVaMac said:

Good thing I had nothing in my mouth when he said, and "bless Chip and Doug as they share a new place and life together"! For my Mom would have been where dinner or the wine (which I did take a big gulp of after the blessing of the meal).

...

More to your point though (sorry it took so long - but it was a minor part of Gay history in DC of that time), the internet IMO has replaced the telephone based Gay Hotline. Just witness my own, and others, threads of issues that some of us face in life.

No longer do Straights or Gays get one perspective on the issues facing them. I know I have try to offer support to Straight members with relationship issues, from my perspective. And Straights have tried to provide support for me as a Gay male from their own perspective.

If you do decide to come to the DC area, I welcome to join me to try and find a NEW grassroots endeavor that can help the Gay community. One that is not wrapped around being part of a walk or parade that others make money off of.

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I just about laughed/cried when I read the priestly blessing! Going to a school with a decent number of priests (gee...what school in DC could that be?!), I am always amazed that some of them maintain such a loving outlook towards just about everybody, irregardless of what might be out of line with the official teachings of the church. It's one of the only reasons I haven't completely left an institution that I've become quite disenchanted with, to put it lightly. Reminds me of the Ghandi quote "If all Christians acted like Christ, the whole world would be Christian." I still see some of these people, who contrast themselves against the often drab backgroud of my daily experiences with Catholicism, etc. Methinks I should have a priest like that around when I finally get the guts to have a boyfriend and my parents knowingly in the same room

Thanks for the backgrounder on W-W and some of the goings-on of the gay community in DC. I'm quite new to the whole scene, being a college student and all, so it's nice to know from where the community that I can participate in without fear of significant repercussions has come. I think that a lot of gay people my age don't quite realize that we owe those who worked so hard and paved the way a giant thanks, just because we didn't go through the AIDS crisis of the 80s (though still a concern) and gay is 'in' nowadays and much more kosher in the public eye. So, from at least me, thanks

Agreed that the internet has helped out a lot and probably taken away from the hotline, but even so, there have been times when I would need to talk to a person at a specific moment of need and get some immediate feedback, rather than posting to a board or something, where a response isn't guaranteed/timely/germane. Granted, there's a lot more information out there now that is easily accessible, but there's always a need for human contact and empathy, IMO.

The whole straight/gay crossover in counseling is in many ways more helpful than internal counseling, so I think. Although always nice to converse with someone who has gone through the same situation with a similar viewpoint, the connection that is made through recognizing that the same things happen within gay/straight relationships allows the bond to be more universal and just that much stronger.

Defintely up for a grassroots thing in DC; there are always new paths to pursue and I'd love to get on the ground floor of such a project. I go back to school in just a few short weeks (scary...). Get your brains in gear, y'all! BTW, I love posting late at night, definitely brings out the prolific side in me hehe...

aboutthat said:

I just about laughed/cried when I read the priestly blessing! Going to a school with a decent number of priests (gee...what school in DC could that be?!), I am always amazed that some of them maintain such a loving outlook towards just about everybody, irregardless of what might be out of line with the official teachings of the church.

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For me it showed the depth of family, since the blessing came from my uncle, who just a year before was praying for my "salvation". Maybe I took more from it than I should have, but I do believe that we choose our words carefully.

Thanks for the backgrounder on W-W and some of the goings-on of the gay community in DC. I'm quite new to the whole scene, being a college student and all, so it's nice to know from where the community that I can participate in without fear of significant repercussions has come. I think that a lot of gay people my age don't quite realize that we owe those who worked so hard and paved the way a giant thanks, just because we didn't go through the AIDS crisis of the 80s (though still a concern) and gay is 'in' nowadays and much more kosher in the public eye. So, from at least me, thanks

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Well thank you. I mentioned what I did as a Gay history lesson of sorts. But also as a lesson on how we approach social issues in todays world. When I was your age, it was so much simpler to do things. You could have a parade or a fundraising walk without having to pay for police or insurance. You had only to pay for the permits.

Nor did you have "organizations" that portrayed themselves as non-profit, that in the end are there only to profit the execs that run them. In todays world we accept that we have to "pay" people high salaries in order to get "well run" organizations. But in reality, it should be a case of providing a "living wage" and the desire to do good that should drive individuals to lead non-profits. Not 6 to 7 figure incomes and big expense accounts.

I started and ran SAIN not as a foothold towards financial benefit or fame for me. I started it because on the Gay Hotline, people were afraid of their voices being recognized. I chose to end SAIN, when it became apparent that others saw money in it, and there were other alternatives coming about.

Agreed that the internet has helped out a lot and probably taken away from the hotline, but even so, there have been times when I would need to talk to a person at a specific moment of need and get some immediate feedback, rather than posting to a board or something, where a response isn't guaranteed/timely/germane. Granted, there's a lot more information out there now that is easily accessible, but there's always a need for human contact and empathy, IMO.

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Agreed, but trying to find people to staff a phone line is difficult today. Back when I was doing it, my peers and I worked regular and solid 40 hour weeks. Today more are on salary, and working 40+ hours in order make ends meet.

You also have employer funded EAP programs that lend an ear when times get tough, something that did not exist back then. If they did they were more closed minded back then.

The whole straight/gay crossover in counseling is in many ways more helpful than internal counseling, so I think. Although always nice to converse with someone who has gone through the same situation with a similar viewpoint, the connection that is made through recognizing that the same things happen within gay/straight relationships allows the bond to be more universal and just that much stronger.

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There are differences between Gay and Straight relationships to some degree. But not so much that requires "separateness" IMO. A problem of "integration" of differing beliefs is when we separate ourselves.

The issues you and I face bringing our love lives to our family and friends is not much different than those faced by those that try to mix different racial or religious backgrounds into their circle of family and friends.

My recent "divorce" from my lover of 13+ years. is not so different from the real divorce of a MR member here that wrote of his problems at that time (save the fact there was child and other legal issues that you and I can not "enjoy" in).

I have been comforted by MR members here in the last year or so through surgery of my ex, joblessness or downsizing for both of us, the breakup and resulting emotional and financial hardships of the breakup. These are no different than similar posts by Straight MR members here.

As long as we segregate ourselves, the longer it takes to see that we are truly the same deep down. That we share in the same joys and sorrows that life gives us.

Defintely up for a grassroots thing in DC; there are always new paths to pursue and I'd love to get on the ground floor of such a project. I go back to school in just a few short weeks (scary...). Get your brains in gear, y'all! BTW, I love posting late at night, definitely brings out the prolific side in me hehe...

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Glad to hear that the youth of today still believes in things starting small. If you will, that a mighty oak tree starts from the tiny acorn. For it is small events like refusing to sit at the back of the bus, or standing up to police harassment of particular bars and their patrons (leading to the Stonewall Riots) that can have a positive change for future generations.

For when we leave this green earth, we will not be judged by the homes we owned, or the cars we drove, or the money we amassed. We will be judged by the deeds we performed, and the good we left behind. Some will be marked in the history books like Rosa Parks. Others will remain nameless. Yet, regardless their effects will be remembered.

I just got in after a very long day of running around with errands, and a long night out with friends. It seems I missed a lot today. I just finished reading everything new.

I congradulate each and everyone one of you who just came out. I hope this thread had something to do with it. It takes a lot of courage. You are all very brave young people (as if I'm so old...I'm an old soul, I guess.)

After I came out, I felt like there was nothing I couldn't do. Every challenge I've met since then I said to myself, "I came out to my parents. This is nothing." Like today when I got my menengitis vaccine, I looked away, grimaced, and said "Hey, I told my parents I'm gay. I can take a little shot." And if you know me...you know how much I hate shots. It still hurts. But that's not the point here.

I still meet resistence from them, every day, but every day it seems like it gets easier. Thankfully I have a very special person in my life that's helping get through it all right now. No. You silly gooses. He isn't my boyfriend. He's just a really great guy that's been there, and is there for me when I need him.

However, and yes, there is a however, when I came out, I felt liberated, like I could finally be myself. Around my friends, yes, but as for my family, I can't. Not to say that I'm any different as I was before, which I'm not. I still act exactly the same way, no butching it up here, but I really want to share with them the most important and beautiful part of my life, but I can't. Even though I'm a flag waving, pink triangle tattooed homo, I still can't really share that with my family.

My brother actually told me to go live in the woods and be a hermit like those gay transcendentalist writers of the 19th century, because it would be easier for him than seeing me with a man. But such is life I guess. Some people have lots of drama, some have none. I wish I had just enough to make life interesting, but not enough to make it overbearing.

I dunno. I think I'm just talking out of my ass right now. I do that a lot. So I'm going to go to bed before I say something really crazy. So good night all of you. Good night. I hope that tomorrow will bring you everything you hoped of, and more. I get a little oddly sentimental at times, and I don't know why...

it's always interesting to read through stories of people's coming out. it's such a raw, emotional, pivotal time in a person's life, and how it goes can affect the person for a long time after. Nowadays it almost always goes better than expected, but I do hear about kids still getting kicked out, beaten, tormented, made to feel like dirt. i always remember a kid i knew who was kicked out at 12 for coming out, he wound up as a prostitute pretty quickly, but by the time I met him (he was maybe 19) he had gotten his GED, a good job, and was already a tax bracket higher than the rest of his family. If he only wouldn't have ****ed my boyfriend, my heart would totally go out to him

and uh, you really can't separate republicanism from anti-gay values... they're a plank of the platform. you can be fiscally conservative and not be anti-gay, but you can't be a true republican without being anti-gay... they officially want to stop gay rights, period. it may be screwed up, but remember, republicanism and conservatism are two very different things... republicans today, for example, don't hesitate to spend money. the world changes.

rainman::|:| said:

and uh, you really can't separate republicanism from anti-gay values... they're a plank of the platform.... they officially want to stop gay rights, period.

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That's very true. It makes me sad to think that the republicans have historically been the ones that have made the biggest social reforms. Who freed the slaves? A repulican. Teddy Roosevelt was republican. Oh well. The world does indeed change.

This thread can't die. Not again... Maybe it wasn't meant to be.

Any Gays here?

Brian0523 said:

Just wondering if I'm the only one

Sorry for sounding like a jerk - I'm just curious about other gay mac geeks like me that's all.

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Try the Windows forums.

Republicanism

Guitarius said:

That's very true. It makes me sad to think that the republicans have historically been the ones that have made the biggest social reforms. Who freed the slaves? A repulican. Teddy Roosevelt was republican. Oh well. The world does indeed change.

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Working in education, I keep thinking the same thing. Aren't republicans supposed to push for state rights over federal rights? And yet who, despite the fact that they *legally* have no right to control education, is using their financial power to control education - the feds!

I didn't know to laugh or to cry when comparing Bush's and Gore's education plans. All they could talk about was how different they were. They were the exact same thing. You could practically copy one and paste it to the other, simply changing the dollar amounts of what was to go where.

Demoblicans and Republicrats. They call themselves the left and the right to trap everyone in the middle. The truth is, they're very close on a much wider spectrum.

Sort of getting OT here. Let me bring it back. Uh - Steve in Jeans!!!

perhaps after 18 pages, the question you should have asked is "is anybody straight"

AL-FAMOUS said:

perhaps after 18 pages, the question you should have asked is "is anybody straight"

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Funny, I was just thinking that!

AL-FAMOUS said:

perhaps after 18 pages, the question you should have asked is "is anybody straight"

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damn, i just noticed the 18 pages.....go gay thread go!
um, that's my contribution of the day.

OT question

AL-FAMOUS said:

perhaps after 18 pages, the question you should have asked is "is anybody straight"

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Why am I showing 11 pages? Is it due my using portrait mode with my 2001FP?














[/QUOTE]

Maybe you've got all the straight guys on "ignore"...

skunk said:

Maybe you've got all the straight guys on "ignore"...

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[joke]Doubt it. Staright guys are fun to get drunk and end up "converting" them. [/joke]

Chip NoVaMac said:

[joke]Doubt it. Staright guys are fun to get drunk and end up "converting" them. [/joke]

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In your dreams maybe! That route has always been a one way street in my experience, not that I've had a lot of them, mind you.

Ugg said:

In your dreams maybe! That route has always been a one way street in my experience, not that I've had a lot of them, mind you.

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ROTFL!

You would be surprised at times. I have met a few that profess that it is only women for them, but let them drop the "soap".

Chip NoVaMac said:

[joke]Doubt it. Staright guys are fun to get drunk and end up "converting" them. [/joke]

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LOL YES!

Ugg said:

In your dreams maybe! That route has always been a one way street in my experience, not that I've had a lot of them, mind you.

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and yes

Chip NoVaMac said:

ROTFL!

You would be surprised at times. I have met a few that profess that it is only women for them, but let them drop the "soap".

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True, but honestly-that's not usually a good experience in my book. For me, straight boys are like women, fun to be friends with but not to sleep with. No offense straight boys or women! I love you!

My this thread is getting intense... I'm getting a little worried now. Maybe my bf is gay.

leekohler said:

True, but honestly-that's not usually a good experience in my book. For me, straight boys are like women, fun to be friends with but not to sleep with. No offense straight boys or women! I love you!

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Agreed, and I think in my experience the ones I wrote about were at least bi curious, or needing to keep up the "front". Remember DC is a government town. The guys here can be so uptight, shallow, and class conscience.