16-Inch MacBook Pro Debuts With New Magic Keyboard, Physical Esc Key, Up to 64GB of RAM, and More

[MacBH928]

If Apple still insists on the touchbar which I still have not heard of any one praising it, maybe they can do it like regular separate keys but instead its small LCD mono-tone screens like on the classic casio watches.

I think the long bar looks uglier, and the colored screen is more expensive and drains the battery.

 

[DEASFA]

I did, I bought a thinkpad! There should be no concessions on a 16" laptop as it is built as a work tool and is in direct competition with other mobile workstations which do have plenty of ports. Even when comparing with thin laptops like the XPS 15, even that has more than TB3 ports. Okay it has no ethernet, but it has USB A and an SD card slot along with USB-C/TB. Basically it has more than 1 type of port and little need for dongles.

Spending £3k+ on a laptop and then having to buy adaptors is not acceptable. Adaptors are NOT the answer we must stop allowing manufacturers to get away with this nonsense!

Cant you just be happy with your thinkpad and leave others to be happy with a Mac? I can’t imagine Mac users going onto microsoft forums and complaining about windows 8...it’s just time to move on.

 

[Stephen.R]

Because Thunderbolt is a point-to-point single computer connection, i.e. you can only connect a single computer to the storage in most cases. 10GigE enables multiple users to be connected to the same storage.

That's not what was suggested or discussed though. No one said "you don't need 10GbE, just plug an array into TB3".
You said:

If you rely on networked storage for your projects, dongles aren't so great.

How is a TB3 to 10GbE adapter, worse than a built-in adapter - given that it's a niche port, the vast majority of people would never use.

Anyone shooting on a low-end DSLR or any of the Sony mirrorless systems will be using SD, and there are a LOT of these photographers, especially with low-end DSLRs. Mid to high-end Canon/Nikon use CF or CF/SD combo.

Or XQD, or it's successor CFExpress, etc etc. By your own admission adding specifically an "SD" slot, is going to be targeting the lowest common denominator, not something "professionals are all using". And if you aren't a photographer, or you happen to use a different format? Well **** you, you're having one anyway.

You will never convince me that putting in single-use ports which a fragment of a fragment of users will actually make use of, is a good choice. You can make a TB3 port talk 10GbE, talk to a card reader (or directly to a camera), or talk to your direct attached storage array or an eGPU or whatever you have.

An SD slot (or any other memory card slot), an ethernet port, a HDMI port, a DisplayPort port, an eSATA port, etc - all do literally one thing, and if you don't need to do that one thing, you can't use it for anything else.


But sure, keep up the "we need this one specific port" schtick. Maybe I should start complaining they don't have eSATA and FibreChannel?


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If Apple still insists on the touchbar which I still have not heard of any one praising it, maybe they can do it like regular separate keys but instead its small LCD mono-tone screens like on the classic casio watches.

I think the long bar looks uglier, and the colored screen is more expensive and drains the battery.

How exactly do you create a slider control, or variable sized buttons from fixed physical keys?

 

[cmaier]

That's not what was suggested or discussed though. No one said "you don't need 10GbE, just plug an array into TB3".
You said:


How is a TB3 to 10GbE adapter, worse than a built-in adapter - given that it's a niche port, the vast majority of people would never use.



Or XQD, or it's successor CFExpress, etc etc. By your own admission adding specifically an "SD" slot, is going to be targeting the lowest common denominator, not something "professionals are all using". And if you aren't a photographer, or you happen to use a different format? Well **** you, you're having one anyway.

You will never convince me that putting in single-use ports which a fragment of a fragment of users will actually make use of, is a good choice. You can make a TB3 port talk 10GbE, talk to a card reader (or directly to a camera), or talk to your direct attached storage array or an eGPU or whatever you have.

An SD slot (or any other memory card slot), an ethernet port, a HDMI port, a DisplayPort port, an eSATA port, etc - all do literally one thing, and if you don't need to do that one thing, you can't use it for anything else.


But sure, keep up the "we need this one specific port" schtick. Maybe I should start complaining they don't have eSATA and FibreChannel?


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How exactly do you create a slider control, or variable sized buttons from fixed physical keys?

the beautiful thing is you can’t. So we could have the ability to change volume and brightness in controlled increments without having to look down at the keyboard again. Ah, those were the days.

 

[x-evil-x]

the beautiful thing is you can’t. So we could have the ability to change volume and brightness in controlled increments without having to look down at the keyboard again. Ah, those were the days.

you do... better touch tools. two finger drag anywhere on the Touch Bar and 3 finger drag. adjust both volume and brightness. The tools are out there if you research. Apple gives us the hardware and doesn't do much with the software that's where other people come in...

 

[shaunp]

Cant you just be happy with your thinkpad and leave others to be happy with a Mac? I can’t imagine Mac users going onto microsoft forums and complaining about windows 8...it’s just time to move on.

Nah, where's the fun in that. I keep an eye on Macs because I prefer Mac OS. Apple just don't have good hardware these days.
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That's not what was suggested or discussed though. No one said "you don't need 10GbE, just plug an array into TB3".
You said:


How is a TB3 to 10GbE adapter, worse than a built-in adapter - given that it's a niche port, the vast majority of people would never use.



Or XQD, or it's successor CFExpress, etc etc. By your own admission adding specifically an "SD" slot, is going to be targeting the lowest common denominator, not something "professionals are all using". And if you aren't a photographer, or you happen to use a different format? Well **** you, you're having one anyway.

You will never convince me that putting in single-use ports which a fragment of a fragment of users will actually make use of, is a good choice. You can make a TB3 port talk 10GbE, talk to a card reader (or directly to a camera), or talk to your direct attached storage array or an eGPU or whatever you have.

An SD slot (or any other memory card slot), an ethernet port, a HDMI port, a DisplayPort port, an eSATA port, etc - all do literally one thing, and if you don't need to do that one thing, you can't use it for anything else.


But sure, keep up the "we need this one specific port" schtick. Maybe I should start complaining they don't have eSATA and FibreChannel?

10GigE so long as you aren't using SFP+ is the same format as any other ethernet. My original point was actually just putting an ethernet port in there and perhaps going to 10GigE as bragging rights. lets face it they have the option on the Mac Mini, so why not on the MBP? And don't tell me an ethernet port is too niche.

You are right. SD is the lowest common denominator, which is why it is so widely used. As is USB-A. We could debate all day about the type of ports, but having just USB-C and relying on dongles is a mistake in such a high-end laptop aimed at professionals and only a fool would defend Apple on this one. What is more useful having in-built ports or having to pay for and carry around a load of dongles?

 

[Metrosey]

Relative to virtually any other notebook brand. With a budget of $2600+ you can literally buy a top of the line Dell XPS (the top choice in the recent years). Actually, you can buy two of these.

90% of the notebook market globally is focused in the 600-800$ price range. So, yes this new MacBook Pro 16 inch is an expensive nitch product within the budget of the 0,1% of the people that are currently looking for a new notebook. Apple would hardly earn any meaningful profit or gain any additional market share.

Yes, you can buy a $600-$800 notebook, at the same time you can buy a $200 notebook. That doesn't mean in turn the $800 notebooks are bad value for money. Macbook sales have actually remained the same for the year after gaining marketshare (which it has done significantly in the past 6 years).

Let's be honest, the reason for the price isn't just the hardware, you get a custom OS, widely available customer service, regular updates, tied in ecosystem, etc. Furthermore, Apple offer the Air and Pro lineup which gives consumers different tiers of performance, etc. Sure you can buy a top of the line XPS but does it come with Mac OS? No. Does it come with some features the Macbook doesn't have? Yes, however, the question is then do you need those features or are they a 'would like' set of features. Macbooks are used a lot in workplace environments rather than simple internet browsing/document creation which is what most consumers only need, therefore, marketshare is lower.

At the end of the day, even though they are expensive (depending on requirements, in some markets it might be considered good value for money), Apple still makes a profit and marketshare remains stable.

 

[Stephen.R]

don't tell me an ethernet port is too niche

On a laptop, in 2019? Probably.

lets face it they have the option on the Mac Mini, so why not on the MBP?

Well for one thing the Mac mini is about 3x as thick, and is inherently going to be used in one place due to.. not being a laptop?

but having just USB-C and relying on dongles is a mistake in such a high-end laptop aimed at professionals

Who apparently use the cheapest cameras possible?

Lets revisit this one more time. How many things besides reading/writing SD cards, can an SD card slot do?

Hint: there is one, and i'll give the first person who guesses correctly, a cookie.

 

[himanshumodi]

Is this is even macrumors comments section? I have never ever seen such overwhelming positivity here.

 

[Stephen.R]

What is more useful having in-built ports

What is more useful, a port that does one thing, or a port that does practically anything?

 

[shaunp]

What is more useful, a port that does one thing, or a port that does practically anything?

You mean like USB-A?

 

[cmaier]

you do... better touch tools. two finger drag anywhere on the Touch Bar and 3 finger drag. adjust both volume and brightness. The tools are out there if you research. Apple gives us the hardware and doesn't do much with the software that's where other people come in...

Dragging does not give you the same fine-grained control as the old keyboard shortcuts. All BTT does is let me not have to look at the keyboard for those two functions.

And what about all the other functions I used to be able to do without looking at the keyboard?

 

[Stephen.R]

You mean like USB-A?

Since when can you run DP, HDMI, 10GbE, FibreChannel or an eGPU (or a combination of these) from USB-A ?

 

[shaunp]

On a laptop, in 2019? Probably.



Well for one thing the Mac mini is about 3x as thick, and is inherently going to be used in one place due to.. not being a laptop?


Who apparently use the cheapest cameras possible?

Lets revisit this one more time. How many things besides reading/writing SD cards, can an SD card slot do?

Hint: there is one, and i'll give the first person who guesses correctly, a cookie.

When Apple produce a laptop with wireless charging and no actual ports, you might actually get it. Only because you don't use something doesn't mean others don't either. Look at the competition this laptop is aimed at - they all have plenty of ports, nut just USB-C. It's about the lack of choice and flexibility with Apple products and somehow adaptors make up for this. Which, they don't on a workstation class product.

I recently bought a very thin laptop for the times when I have to edit on site and have to travel light. Which laptop it is doesn't matter, but like most thin 13" laptops it has just USB-C/TB3 ports. Now for this product I get it. It's light and portability and battery life are key. I fully accept the I/O limitations to get a smaller product.

Now my other laptop is more of a workstation and used for a different part of my business. It has pretty much every port I can think of except VGA and a parallel port. And while it's definitely much heavier than my Ultrabook, it's only a bit heavier than a MBP, but it has way, way more connectivity. I never know what I'm going to face at customer sites or what I will need to connect to. Having to carry around a load of adaptors would be a nightmare and would cost more. It's about having the correct tool for the job not one that just looks pretty. The 16" MBP isn't exactly small and it's not as thin as you think it is, so there is absolutely no excuse for only having USB-C ports in there and nothing else. And Apple are apparently listening to their customers.....

 

[seek3r]

Macbook Pro 15 inch starting at $2400+ has never been the most popular Mac. The vast majority of macs in the wild are Airs, 13 inch Pros and Minis, that is, the cheapest mac models Apple has in its line. In fact, it is the Air that really pushed Mac expansion when it was revealed more than 10 years ago. Apple should focus more on high quality affordable notebooks, rather than on high end machines such as the Mac Pro, iMac Pro and the these new 16 inch Macbook Pro. The vast majority of the users wont pay more than 1500$ for a notebook, so any new mac above this price point is a nitch product, especially outside the US.

If you work in tech you see 15" MBPs *everywhere* FWIW.

 

[Zdigital2015]

On a laptop, in 2019? Probably.



Well for one thing the Mac mini is about 3x as thick, and is inherently going to be used in one place due to.. not being a laptop?


Who apparently use the cheapest cameras possible?

Lets revisit this one more time. How many things besides reading/writing SD cards, can an SD card slot do?

Hint: there is one, and i'll give the first person who guesses correctly, a cookie.

Collect dust?
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You mean like USB-A?

USB-C can do anything USB-A can do and more. Keep one dongle on hand or buy new cables...good grief, it’s not that difficult.

 

[Stephen.R]

Only because you don't use something doesn't mean others don't either.

Ok, so where's my FibreChannel and eSATA enabled laptop? I don't see you taking up the baton for that. I don't have an SD card, so why does your preferred slot get precedence over my preferred slot?

they all have plenty of ports, nut just USB-C.

They also have plenty of plastic. Should Apple copy that too?

It's about the lack of choice and flexibility with Apple products and somehow adaptors make up for this. Which, they don't on a workstation class product.

So again. Your argument is, an SD card slot, that won't even satisfy all photographers, is better than a TB3 port, that can do practically anything you can imagine... ?

the I/O limitations

You're seriously suggesting a MBP with 4x 40Gbps ports is "more limited" than a laptop with... a USB2 speed SD card slot?

It has pretty much every port I can think of except VGA and a parallel port.

Really? So it has FibreChannel, and 10GbE, and four DisplayPorts, and eSATA and Firewire800?

I never know what I'm going to face at customer sites or what I will need to connect to. Having to carry around a load of adaptors would be a nightmare and would cost more.

... And yet (a) the vast majority of people using any computer, arent in your situation and (b) I guarantee your laptop cannot possibly have every single connection required, built in. It's not physically possible. But sure, ignore the ones that, what was your phrase "you don't use", because it makes your argument easier to make.

The 16" MBP isn't exactly small and it's not as thin as you think it is

Well I'm literally writing this on a 2018 MBP15 and the 16" it's... 0.7mm thicker. So it's a little more than two mustache hairs thicker. But sure, I guess I have no clue how much thicker that is..
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Collect dust?
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USB-C can do anything USB-A can do and more. Keep one dongle on hand or buy new cables...good grief, it’s not that difficult.

Guess who gets a cookie.

 

[x-evil-x]

Dragging does not give you the same fine-grained control as the old keyboard shortcuts. All BTT does is let me not have to look at the keyboard for those two functions.

And what about all the other functions I used to be able to do without looking at the keyboard?

what fine grained control are you talking about with volume and brightness? It literally does the same thing as a key pressing it once or sliding left or right a little. You can do small amounts just like a key.
You can change it to what you like to use I personally like the Touch Bar but I never used the top row of keys much before. I like being able to change it.

 

[GrumpyCoder]

Well you can buy 5TB of external thunderbolt storage easily for that money you save when you choose 1TB. Probably for the best anyway.

Yes, but not mobile storage. Mobile storage is either more expensive or slower. Something comparable would be Samsung X5 and the 1TB version is more expensive than going from 1TB to 2TB internal storage. I'm getting 20% off retail from Apple, so that might make a difference. Only question is, do I really need 2TB... I'm on 450GB used space on my current MBP, so probably not. But it screams "buy me".

 

[Zdigital2015]

When Apple produce a laptop with wireless charging and no actual ports, you might actually get it. Only because you don't use something doesn't mean others don't either. Look at the competition this laptop is aimed at - they all have plenty of ports, nut just USB-C. It's about the lack of choice and flexibility with Apple products and somehow adaptors make up for this. Which, they don't on a workstation class product.

I recently bought a very thin laptop for the times when I have to edit on site and have to travel light. Which laptop it is doesn't matter, but like most thin 13" laptops it has just USB-C/TB3 ports. Now for this product I get it. It's light and portability and battery life are key. I fully accept the I/O limitations to get a smaller product.

Now my other laptop is more of a workstation and used for a different part of my business. It has pretty much every port I can think of except VGA and a parallel port. And while it's definitely much heavier than my Ultrabook, it's only a bit heavier than a MBP, but it has way, way more connectivity. I never know what I'm going to face at customer sites or what I will need to connect to. Having to carry around a load of adaptors would be a nightmare and would cost more. It's about having the correct tool for the job not one that just looks pretty. The 16" MBP isn't exactly small and it's not as thin as you think it is, so there is absolutely no excuse for only having USB-C ports in there and nothing else. And Apple are apparently listening to their customers.....

The same would be true with a computer with two USB-A ports and two Thunderbolt 2 ports, as the previous 2012-2015 MacBook Pros were equipped. What did you do then? Your choices are wireless OR Ethernet via a dongle. Token Ring? If that’s the case, they better be a damn rich client.

I did this all for many years, and you had two different connectors to worry about with vastly different speeds (5Gbps vs 20Gbps), now you have one connector all at 40Gbps.

If you encounter a customer with older CF cards, XQD, CFAST, i.e. anything but SD, what did you do? You weren’t better off because the 2012-2015 MacBook Pro had an SD Card slot, you were still just as screwed. The SD Card reader as okay, but not as fast as a dedicated unit that had several slots for different formats. Who cares about this as a real down side? What do you do when the client only uses SD Card and your PC comes with only a MicroSD Card reader...oops!

And on the PC side, you are just as screwed when you don’t have those things on a laptop. My point? Dongles, adapters and cables are part of the computing experience and always have been and always will be.

Your chasing a two legacy ports and a memory card that have solutions as though they are the Holy Grail...things change. Otherwise, we would still be stuck with VGA and a parallel port and laptops would be have a 12.1 XGA TFT panel, be and 3” thick and cost $3299.

 

[x-evil-x]

Yes, but not mobile storage. Mobile storage is either more expensive or slower. Something comparable would be Samsung X5 and the 1TB version is more expensive than going from 1TB to 2TB internal storage. I'm getting 20% off retail from Apple, so that might make a difference. Only question is, do I really need 2TB... I'm on 450GB used space on my current MBP, so probably not. But it screams "buy me".

So does McDonald’s every time I drive past it but I really don’t need it.

 

[neoelectronaut]

I always love these diehard Apple fanatics that think their only use case is right and anybody that complains is wrong.

You're right, it's 2019 and for some reason there is not a single USB 3.0 port on the damn computer. Soooooo innovative

Depending on which model you buy, any given Macbook has either 2 or 4 USB 3.0 ports.

 

[x-evil-x]

Is it really hard for people to get a few usb-a to usb-c adapters and leave them plugged into whatever cord/device they use all the time? I don’t understand the complainers of “dongle life”. It’s not a big deal. Do what I said and stop complaining like babies about it. The ability to use either side and 4 ports of the laptop for anything far outweigh the agony It is to leave a few cables with adapters on the ends.

 

[Zdigital2015]

Is it really hard for people to get a few usb-a to usb-c adapters and leave them plugged into whatever cord/device they use all the time? I don’t understand the complainers of “dongle life”. It’s not a big deal. Do what I said and stop complaining like babies about it. The ability to use either side and 4 ports of the laptop for anything far outweigh the agony It is to leave a few cables with adapters on the ends.

At the end of the day, for whatever reason, Apple found that both the HDMI and the SD Card slots no longer made sense. I ask myself, ”Was that because upper management wanted to reduce the Z-height of the MacBook Pro, so these ports have to go, or was there another reason?” I don’t dwell on it, and the chassis could accommodate an SD Card slot, but Apple chose not to put it back in. That’s their prerogative.

Having dealt with Thunderbolt 1/2 to 1GbE and to Firewire 800 adapters since 2012 with the 15” Retina MacBook Pro, among other countless adapters over the past 35 years of working and supporting computers, Mac and PC alike (along with Sun, SGI, DEC Alpha, et al.), none of the “challenges“ presented by the 2016-2019 MacBook Pros have really ruffled my feathers. I have two USB-C to USB-A adapters from Apple and a Cal-Digit Thunderbolt 3 mini Dock with DisplayPort, 1GbE and 1 USB 3.0 port. I use it to hook up my BenQ SW271 and the USB-A to a Focusrite 18i8 audio interface, which works flawlessly. I do have a USB-C to USB 2.0 B for the Focusrite, but the cable is not as thick and durable as I would like and I encountered some issues using it, although I now believe those were more of an issue with .KEXt files that Focusrite support pages suggested that I delete After doing some research.

I didn’t feel as thought I was living the dongle life with my 2012 or 2015 MacBook Pros and I don’t feel like I do now with my 2016 MacBook Pro. We’re a good 4 years in, and all I see at this point are users who either adapt or don’t and while I won’t say they die, they sure are making it harder on themselves than they need at this point. This is such a non-issue that keeps being regurgitated again and again with my advice to them being - “Pry open your wallet and buy the cables you need like the rest of us!”

Just my 2¢.

 

[1146331]

Is it really hard for people to get a few usb-a to usb-c adapters and leave them plugged into whatever cord/device they use all the time? I don’t understand the complainers of “dongle life”. It’s not a big deal. Do what I said and stop complaining like babies about it. The ability to use either side and 4 ports of the laptop for anything far outweigh the agony It is to leave a few cables with adapters on the ends.

Probably because the majority of devices ARE NOT USB-C, it's the stupidity of Apple trying to create a computer that is super thin, but yet you have to carry a **** ton of adapters {or at least 1}.