I agree with you - teams like Toro Rosso and Super Aguri would be hard pressed to survive financially if they weren't able to buy chassis, and one thing the sport doesn't want is to lose 2-3 teams (teams which, face it, aren't going to win the championship anyway).
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2007 Formula One Thread
- Thread starter R.Youden
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I agree with you - teams like Toro Rosso and Super Aguri would be hard pressed to survive financially if they weren't able to buy chassis, and one thing the sport doesn't want is to lose 2-3 teams (teams which, face it, aren't going to win the championship anyway).
Unlikely... considering both teams are partially owned and supported by multi-billion-$ corporations.
Still... if they can't survive financially, then so be it. F1 has lost far greater teams in the past.
But these teams, with their customer 'works' chassis, are likely to be capable of taking points from the likes of Williams and Spyker, who design and build their own cars. The potential loss in points will significantly affect those 2 teams incomes, because they'll finish lower in the championship.
The day F1 resorts to customer cars, is just one more step to F1 becomming a spec series like IRL or Champ Car. And that will be a sad, sad day in my opinion.
I agree in principle, i have no love for either team and ideally F1 would be better without any customer cars, but F1 would be less fun to watch with only 8 or 9 teams if rules made it too hard for them to survive. Maybe your idea of three championships is a good one - let only 'constructors' compete for the World Constructors Championship.
I have to think that if a customer chassis team started beating cunstructors, there would be immediate rule changes to keep them down. I'm sure they are allowed to compete only on the implied condition that they remain at the back of the grid.
Which is a bit stupid - why race if you have absolutely no chance of ever winning?
But at the same time I agree that teams like Spyker and Williams put in a much larger investment, which should be protected.
Which is a bit stupid - why race if you have absolutely no chance of ever winning?
But at the same time I agree that teams like Spyker and Williams put in a much larger investment, which should be protected.
Head: no customer car constructors points
Makes sense.
Me thinks if Toro or Aguri are not prepared to compromise on the points thing, then the other teams won't sign up to allow customer cars in 2008.
Could throw a spanner in the works for the McLaren B Team.... errr I mean Prodrive's plans for next season.
Makes sense.
Autosport and Patrick Head said:
Me thinks if Toro or Aguri are not prepared to compromise on the points thing, then the other teams won't sign up to allow customer cars in 2008.
Could throw a spanner in the works for the McLaren B Team.... errr I mean Prodrive's plans for next season.
I am not sure where I stand with this customer car deal. I can see why teams like Williams don't want teams to sell chassis etc and I can see why this would not be good for the sport of they can just pop-up and 'buy' a car.
BUT from what I can remember if there is less than a certain number of cars on the grid then the top teams, McLaren, Ferrari, Honda, Renault etc.. will have to field a third car, which would be even worse for Williams as they would be pushed even further down the grid. It would also get really messy for the fans if car-X can't score points but car-Y can so there is no point in trying to overtake.
Not sure where I stand on this.
BUT from what I can remember if there is less than a certain number of cars on the grid then the top teams, McLaren, Ferrari, Honda, Renault etc.. will have to field a third car, which would be even worse for Williams as they would be pushed even further down the grid. It would also get really messy for the fans if car-X can't score points but car-Y can so there is no point in trying to overtake.
Not sure where I stand on this.
While I am here I think we also have some good news. Abu Dabi has a contract from 2009 for a race and Bernie wants upto 20 races in a season. I think this is the way to go.
For fans who go to races it is very boring on teh Friday and Saturday morning. What they need to do is say that teams can run for as long as they want on Friday and use as many parts as they like, blow as many engines etc and then seal them on Saturday morning. Allow all the teams to run three cars and show the fans what they want to see, Formula One cars.
Testing is one of the biggest expenses in F1, most teams have personnel that are race team and test team which is a huge expense. Just my opinion, what does everyone else think?
For fans who go to races it is very boring on teh Friday and Saturday morning. What they need to do is say that teams can run for as long as they want on Friday and use as many parts as they like, blow as many engines etc and then seal them on Saturday morning. Allow all the teams to run three cars and show the fans what they want to see, Formula One cars.
Testing is one of the biggest expenses in F1, most teams have personnel that are race team and test team which is a huge expense. Just my opinion, what does everyone else think?
But that would be so confusing for fans and puts you in the situation where drivers won't want to risk overtaking another as they wont score points. I just don't think it will work.
I've always been of the opinion that scrapping testing is the way to go.
Replace it with unlimited running on Fridays, maybe even Thursdays too... with essentially no restrictions whatsoever.
And return proper qualifying for the Saturday whilst we're at it.
That seems like the simplest and most direct answer to me.
Has it been suggested by anyone (other than yourself)? Maybe you should tell Frank?
I don't like the current qualifying format, it's too Byzantine - though I won't pretend to have a strong opinion on how it should be instead. iGav's concept sounds as good as any, but anything that is less complex sounds like an improvement.
The idea of no constructor points for customer teams also sounds fair to me, even if the constructor teams fight it tooth and nail. If you design a car, you are a constructor. If you just buy one, you aren't a constructor - you are a "privateer".
Having a "Team Championship" as a third trophy might be too confusing though - would it include all teams of just non-constructor teams? The latter option would give the bottom feeders something they might actually win, so that's a point in its favor.
The idea of no constructor points for customer teams also sounds fair to me, even if the constructor teams fight it tooth and nail. If you design a car, you are a constructor. If you just buy one, you aren't a constructor - you are a "privateer".
Having a "Team Championship" as a third trophy might be too confusing though - would it include all teams of just non-constructor teams? The latter option would give the bottom feeders something they might actually win, so that's a point in its favor.
I was thinking it would just be open to all teams (as the current constructor championship is), but that would mean the top teams would just win it anyway. A non-constructor championship would give the 'bottom feeders' somthing to live for, but i doubt it would be accepted by all teams.
Ugh, what's wrong with track designers nowadays? When will they realise that drivers AND spectators want corners faster than 3rd gear?!
Spyker F1 have launched their new car today:
We have all the big name cars out already and so far McLaren are looking very strong. I imagine that they will be the team to beat, along with Ferrari.
I expect Spyker to challenge Williams but I fear it will be too far back the grid for anyone to notice!
We have all the big name cars out already and so far McLaren are looking very strong. I imagine that they will be the team to beat, along with Ferrari.
I expect Spyker to challenge Williams but I fear it will be too far back the grid for anyone to notice!
I'll second that. I'm still annoyed they took Suzuka off the calendar. That was (and still is) an amazing circuit!
Spyker F1 have launched their new car today:
We have all the big name cars out already and so far McLaren are looking very strong. I imagine that they will be the team to beat, along with Ferrari.
I expect Spyker to challenge Williams but I fear it will be too far back the grid for anyone to notice!
I really hope for the sake of Spyker that they'll be further up the grid, but I'm sceptical. I don't think Williams will be at the bottom of the grid though. And definitely not fighting with Spyker. I expect Williams to be in the middle of the competition fighting the likes of Red Bull and maybe BMW. The Toyota engine has a lot of potential and the Williams team is very strong, with huge amounts of experience!
See Renault? THAT'S how you use orange. At least McLaren and Spyker know how to use the damn color.
With that paint, how could you NOT notice it. I bet you won't see many people hitting it in the wet.R.Youden said:
it does look good.
...or maybe they'll be drawn to it like moths to a flame...