2008 Formula One Thread

[benlangdon]

Well that was a dull race! What happened last weekend?

Ferrari where hopeless and Lewis Hamilton the best thing ever.

Now McLaren are poor and Kimi good!

This is what really annoys me with British press, when Hamilton driver a competent race (which is all Australia was) then he is the greatest ever, and now when Kimi does just as good job they won't go over the top about him. I think today we have seen the true reflection of the championship this season. Kimi will walk it and McLaren will fight with BMW for the scraps.

Australia is a poor circuit to have the first race of the season. It is an old fashioned point and squirt circuit which is more dependent upon engine and brakes, whilst most modern circuits are more flowing and will suit the more aerodynamically efficient Ferrari.

hahahah

dude seriously i need to take F1 on the speed channel.
you have made me appriciate these guys 10 fold, and i already liked them.

i dunno if you know this
but the guy who questions the 3 drivers after the race, works for the speed channel and is part of the announcers

i hate the speed channel web site and the channel lately, but F1 on speed makes up for it

 

[remmy]

Do you really expect the British press to support a Finn racing for Ferrari

I doubt the Spanish or Italian press are so nice to any one but Alonso / Ferrari.

It's how you sell newspapers, make the reader angry on the first pages about how incompetant the goverment is, and then proud that the local hero is doing well in sport.

 

[pachyderm]

Well that was a dull race! What happened last weekend?

...

You obviously weren't riding with Jarno!!! lol.

2008 FORMULA 1 PETRONAS MALAYSIAN GRAND PRIX

1 1 Kimi Räikkönen Ferrari 56 1:31:18.555 2 10
2 4 Robert Kubica BMW 56 +19.5 secs 4 8
3 23 Heikki Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes 56 +38.4 secs 8 6
4 11 Jarno Trulli Toyota 56 +45.8 secs 3 5
5 22 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 56 +46.5 secs 9 4
6 3 Nick Heidfeld BMW 56 +49.8 secs 5 3
7 10 Mark Webber Red Bull-Renault 56 +68.1 secs 6 2
8 5 Fernando Alonso Renault 56 +70.0 secs 7 1
9 9 David Coulthard Red Bull-Renault 56 +76.2 secs 12
10 16 Jenson Button Honda 56 +86.2 secs 11
11 6 Nelsinho Piquet Renault 56 +92.2 secs 13
12 21 Giancarlo Fisichella Force India-Ferrari 55 +1 Lap 17
13 17 Rubens Barrichello Honda 55 +1 Lap 14
14 7 Nico Rosberg Williams-Toyota 55 +1 Lap 16
15 19 Anthony Davidson Super Aguri-Honda 55 +1 Lap 21
16 18 Takuma Sato Super Aguri-Honda 54 +2 Laps 19
17 8 Kazuki Nakajima Williams-Toyota 54 +2 Laps 22
Ret 15 Sebastian Vettel STR-Ferrari 39 +17 Laps 15
Ret 2 Felipe Massa Ferrari 30 Spin 1
Ret 20 Adrian Sutil Force India-Ferrari 5 +51 Laps 20
Ret 12 Timo Glock Toyota 1 Accident 10
Ret 14 Sebastien Bourdais STR-Ferrari 0 Spin 18

WDC Points
1 Lewis Hamilton British McLaren-Mercedes 14*
2 Kimi Räikkönen Finnish Ferrari 11*
3 Nick Heidfeld German BMW 11
4 Heikki Kovalainen Finnish McLaren-Mercedes 10
5 Robert Kubica Polish BMW 8
6 Nico Rosberg German Williams-Toyota 6
7 Fernando Alonso Spanish Renault 6
8 Jarno Trulli Italian Toyota 5
9 Kazuki Nakajima Japanese Williams-Toyota 3
10 Mark Webber Australian Red Bull-Renault 2
11 Sebastien Bourdais French STR-Ferrari 2
*=race winners

Jarno Trulli, Toyota (4th):
“It's nice to be back in the points after such a strong race. I'm especially happy for the team both here and in Cologne. This result is mainly down to their work over the winter and I dedicate it to them. I had a difficult first corner when I lost grip, ran wide and touched Nick Heidfeld, losing a bit of ground. But after that I was able to keep up with the McLarens. Then we made it past Mark Webber as the team did a good job at the pit stops. At the end it was a great fight with Lewis Hamilton and we were pushing each other hard. He was obviously slightly quicker than me but I gave 100 percent and thanks to the team's good job and the trouble-free weekend we took fourth. I just hope we can carry on improving the performance of the car, because as I mentioned at the end of winter testing we are looking strong. With Toyota's potential we can bounce back to the 2005 level already this year.”

Lewis Hamilton, McLaren (5th):
"I got a really good start and was pretty happy as we jumped five positions from ninth to fifth. I was pushing Mark for a very long time, but being behind someone, no matter how quick you are, it is really difficult to get past. We were in a good position for a shot at third place at least, but then I had the problem in my first pit stop which lost me a lot of time.

"So I did the best job I could. However we take away the fact that the car ran very reliably in these extreme conditions, and I was able to push Jarno right until the last second. I have to say that both Mark and Jarno drove really well today, and it was great to fight them out on track today."

chuffed for my boy jarno!! way to go quick nick!

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Looks like Massa's days as a Ferrari driver may be numbered, eh?

I don't care what Fernando says, he will want to race for a winning team and if he struggles getting into the points at Renault, and if Ferrari show any interest he'll sign up for the Scuderia in a heartbeat...

...of course he and Kimi would start butting heads almost immediately.

 

[pachyderm]

jarno to ferrari.

 

[Squonk]

jarno to ferrari.

I'm good with that!

 

[Lord Blackadder]

jarno to ferrari.

Either you really like Jarno or you really hate Ferrari...

 

[RaceTripper]

jarno to ferrari.

When it snows in hell.
I like Jarno, but he's not likely to get a ride with a top tier team. He had his chance to prove himself at Renault, but made too many mistakes (like giving away a podium at Magny Cours on the last turn of the last lap).

I expect Alsonso will end up at Ferrari. If Massa doesn't get his act together and stop making mistakes I'll be surprised to see him at the Scuderia next year, unless it's one with a Red Bull on the car.

My loyalty is with BMW.

 

[pachyderm]

I'm good with that!

Either you really like Jarno or you really hate Ferrari...

i really like jarno... and it appears that squonk does also....

When it snows in hell.
I like Jarno, but he's not likely to get a ride with a top tier team. He had his chance to prove himself at Renault, but made too many mistakes (like giving away a podium at Magny Cours on the last turn of the last lap).

I expect Alsonso will end up at Ferrari. If Massa doesn't get his act together and stop making mistakes I'll be surprised to see him at the Scuderia next year, unless it's one with a Red Bull on the car.

My loyalty is with BMW.

no need to get nasty...

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Trulli is a good F1 driver, good enough to maintain a seat - but I think Alonso is clearly better, and would be chosen over Trulli every time all else being equal. Trulli qualifies well but seems to disappear in races.

 

[RaceTripper]

Trulli is a good F1 driver, good enough to maintain a seat - but I think Alonso is clearly better, and would be chosen over Trulli every time all else being equal. Trulli qualifies well but seems to disappear in races.

Right, but I don't think Jarno is even in the same league as Alonso. Not after seeing how Alonso held off Schumi the way he did, and then there's that 200+ MPH pass on Schumi he did through the outside of 130R at Suzuka -- one of the ballsiest moves I've ever seen.

Jarno is good, but he's not great. I love his personality though. He's very media friendly. I think Alonso is a great driver, but he's a big baby prima dona so I don't root for him anymore.

 

[benlangdon]

When it snows in hell.
I like Jarno, but he's not likely to get a ride with a top tier team. He had his chance to prove himself at Renault, but made too many mistakes (like giving away a podium at Magny Cours on the last turn of the last lap).

I expect Alsonso will end up at Ferrari. If Massa doesn't get his act together and stop making mistakes I'll be surprised to see him at the Scuderia next year, unless it's one with a Red Bull on the car.

My loyalty is with BMW.

are you guys really kidding me right now about massa messing up?

massa has been one of the top drivers for years.
he got pole position need i say more?

because of the change in traction control i do not think many teams will be making big changes

 

[RaceTripper]

are you guys really kidding me right now about massa messing up?

massa has been one of the top drivers for years.
he got pole position need i say more?

because of the change in traction control i do not think many teams will be making big changes

Massa is good. He's not great. I doubt he'll ever get a championship. Too many other drivers on the grid better than he is. Schumi has mentored Massa and helped him become 95% of a championship driver, but I don't think Massa will ever find that last 5% to beat the likes of Kimi, Alonso, Hamilton, and Kubica, etc. (yes, I think we have yet to see what Robert is really capable of, but that's coming soon).

I just don't think Massa is that big a deal.

 

[benlangdon]

Massa is good. He's not great. I doubt he'll ever get a championship. Too many other drivers on the grid better than he is. Schumi has mentored Massa and helped him become 95% of a championship driver, but I don't think Massa will ever find that last 5% to beat the likes of Kimi, Alonso, Hamilton, and Kubica, etc. (yes, I think we have yet to see what Robert is really capable of, but that's coming soon).

I just don't think Massa is that big a deal.

ha you make me giggle.

being a good driver is not about winning races or a championship.
ask any professional driver.
if your lucky, you will win, but that doesn't mean they are that much better of a driver than everyone else.

 

[RaceTripper]

ha you make me giggle.

being a good driver is not about winning races or a championship.
ask any professional driver.
if your lucky, you will win, but that doesn't mean they are that much better of a driver than everyone else.

You're putting words into my mouth. I never made the assertion you have to win a championship to be a good driver.

There are plenty of great drivers that don't win championships. Same is true for players of other sports. All I said is Massa is not great, and because he isn't great I doubt he'll win the F1 championship. There are great drivers in F1 and some will never win a championship.

I think Massa is overrated.

 

[pachyderm]

jarno to ferrari.

Either you really like Jarno or you really hate Ferrari...

Trulli is a good F1 driver, good enough to maintain a seat - but I think Alonso is clearly better, and would be chosen over Trulli every time all else being equal. Trulli qualifies well but seems to disappear in races.

as i stated above.. i am a fan of trulli.
but i was being sarcastic... and probably should have done more to emphasize that. lol. sorry. my bad.

jarno, although still a young man in real world terms-not racing terms, is clearly in the twilight of his career and will most likely finish out with toyota or some even less competitive team in the next few years. renault was his golden ring and, other than a win @monaco and a handful of other good performances, he really never stood out...

but even he has said "pffft" to ferrari.


Massa-liked him when he first hit the big time. i think he has fulfilled his potential and then some... although a bit of a spazz from time to time... aren't we all though.

 

[iJohnHenry]

I still like Rubens Barrichello, the Everyman of F1 racing.

I just wish he could have stayed with Ferrari, post Michael.

Oh well!!!

 

[pachyderm]

I still like Rubens Barrichello, the Everyman of F1 racing.

I just wish he could have stayed with Ferrari, post Michael.

Oh well!!!

in my post damon hill/F1 days i have taken on rubens and jarno and nick and nico. with jarno being my main driver. completely agreed on your assessment of rubens.

 

[benlangdon]

You're putting words into my mouth. I never made the assertion you have to win a championship to be a good driver.

There are plenty of great drivers that don't win championships. Same is true for players of other sports. All I said is Massa is not great, and because he isn't great I doubt he'll win the F1 championship. There are great drivers in F1 and some will never win a championship.

I think Massa is overrated.

i think now that he has someone to compete against that isn't shuey, (you do not compete against shuey, you bow down) he will be doing better, but sad to see him spin in that race, they were setting almost identical lap times in the beginning

 

[R.Youden]

With regard to Massa I think we have already seen this season why he is not a TOP driver. In the two races so far he has spun twice without any help and driven into someone for no good reason. How many times did this happen to Schumacher in a season, or Alonso, or Kimi? Probably 2-3 times in a season, not 2 races.

Massa is just good, not very good. He isn't at Ferrari to win the championship, he is there to score points and take points away from McLaren, and on Sunday he failed to do that quite badly!

What did Martin Brundle say:

Ambition overcame adhesion

Pure poetry.

If you where to rank the 22 drivers on ability and nothing to do with which team they where at Massa won't be in the top 5, he may not even make the top 10 in some peoples list. I think he would be around 7 on my list.


EDIT: Just seen that the FIA has announced the committee who decide where the $60million fine for McLaren is going to be distributed. On that committe is Schumi, Todt, Mosely, Hauge and some other bloke. Anyway what got me this, where is the other $40million?

They got finned $100million. They had to pay $60million and not receive the other $40million in prize money from the FIA. So logically this committee gets the $60million from McLaren but they should also be given $40million from the FIA. Now from what I can work out the FIA will not be giving the committee the money and just keeping the rest!

There must be something going on here, someone needs to find out how they can get away with this. Otherwise it could easily been seen that the fine was handed out to help the FIAs coffers rather than punish McLaren.

Actually I am not sure if it is the FIA that give out the prize money, I think it could be FOM. Ah well.

 

[pachyderm]

i wonder if the committee got to split the 40 mill...?


and upon further review: blame for the massa and dc wreck @melbourne,imho, could at least be split evenly between the two or totally on dc. someone on here posted that dc isn't happy with the position of the mirrors but regardless of that he should still try to use them! massa was clearly alongside and in a fair position to challenge... whether he should or not given dc's past history... enter at your own risk...

that said, i'd have to agree that he is "good" not "great". and depending on the most recent performance i'd venture to say he is "just o.k.", not even "good". lol.

 

[RaceTripper]

i wonder if the committee got to split the 40 mill...?


and upon further review: blame for the massa and dc wreck @melbourne,imho, could at least be split evenly between the two or totally on dc. someone on here posted that dc isn't happy with the position of the mirrors but regardless of that he should still try to use them! massa was clearly alongside and in a fair position to challenge... whether he should or not given dc's past history... enter at your own risk...

that said, i'd have to agree that he is "good" not "great". and depending on the most recent performance i'd venture to say he is "just o.k.", not even "good". lol.

Even Schumi said Massa had some of the blame in the incident with DC.

DC should have let him go, but Massa was over-aggressive. It's what I mean by that last 5% to greatness. Massa doesn't have it, so he gets tangled up in things like this, has problems coming to grips with lack of TC, etc. I didn't like Schumi for his cheatin' ways, but he didn't make mistakes like Massa makes.

And I just loved it when Lewis "tricked" Massa at 07 Malaysia. Classic!

 

[iGav]

With regard to Massa I think we have already seen this season why he is not a TOP driver.

I don't think that's entirely fair, he had the edge on Räikkönen for a lot of last season, and had it not been for mechanical issues (namely Australia, Britain and Hungary) and team orders from Ferrari post-Monza then he's have been fighting for the championship along with Kimi in Brazil, and considering his pace there, it's not inconceivable he'd have been World Champion.

In the two races so far he has spun twice without any help and driven into someone for no good reason.

According to Schumacher, Massa's spin at the beginning was caused by an electrical problem that caused the wrong gear to be selected, causing him to spin because of the excess power.

I also don't think Massa is any more culpable for the clash with D.C. than D.C. himself, it was a clear case of D.C. not using his mirrors again, all he had to do was give Massa room (Massa was far enough alongside to lay claim to the corner) rather than turn in, and then hung him out to dry on the outside of the following corner, but even then, that didn't cause Massa's retirement.

How many times did this happen to Schumacher in a season, or Alonso, or Kimi? Probably 2-3 times in a season, not 2 races.

Well, it occurred to Kimi twice in one race didn't it. And both of those were really silly mistakes, but I don't see him coming under anywhere near the same levels of criticism.

If you where to rank the 22 drivers on ability and nothing to do with which team they where at Massa won't be in the top 5, he may not even make the top 10 in some peoples list. I think he would be around 7 on my list.

He's quite possibly the quickest qualifier on the grid, certainly I think in absolute pure pace terms he's quicker than both Alonso and Räikkönen for example.

He's a little less consistent in the races, unless he's leading, when he's often metronomic in his speed and consistency. And he's certainly demonstrated an ability to fight through the pack, he was really good at Silverstone last season, and wasn't exactly shabby in that rain at the Nürburgring either, and the final laps of the Japanese GP it was like he'd been possessed by the spirit of Gilles.

Is he the best? Of course not... is he as bad as people try to make out? Of course not.

What did Martin Brundle say:

Ambition overcame adhesion

Pure poetry.

That was funny.

 

[benlangdon]

you know kimi messed up in Australia right?

cold tires, thats a rookie mistake, he is not a rookie.

enough said.

david coultard could have clearly seen the front of massa's car. it was a stupid move, on david coultard part.

and massa mistake was random as sh#%
maybe he did get a wrong gear
i mean he spun in the middle of the turn, he was not even charging very hard.


i never know shuey was on the committee.

bahrain should be fun. forgot what it looks like but w/e. go ferrari ( i finally got an avaitar )

 

[RaceTripper]

...go ferrari

go BMW!