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2008 Formula One Thread

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benlangdon said:
so massa won?
i read there is a 25 sec penalty on hamilton for gaining ground on cutting a corner.

fing a, i wanted to watch the race, :(
4:30 in the morning over here
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He didn't gain ground by cutting the corner he had gotten ahead in the chicane. Raikkonen pushed him on to the escape area but to be sure there was no rule infringement Hamilton backed off and gave Raikkonen the lead back. The promptly took the lead back. Charlie Whitting confirmed to Ron Denis that as far as he was concerned they were OK.
 
remmy said:
Think they are against incase it creates a big crash or pile up, sometimes there are too many cars in too much of a small space. Someone might get pushed into the wall when they had right of way.

I have seen softer obstacles such as bollards used in British Touring cars but that leaves debri on the track if it is caught.

What I have seen used, which I think would work is if a chicane is cut the driver has to stop and and then restart.

But the main problem is it seems there is no certain rule. You must not get an advantage is occasionally ambiguous.
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good points.
 
The BBC seem to have figured it out:
Last bit of the article...

But the drama had not finished, and was merely switched to the stewards' office.

Their decision is likely to be greeted with cynicism as it makes the championship battle dramatically closer at a time when Hamilton was beginning to look like he was inching towards his first title.
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bartelby said:
The BBC seem to have figured it out
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I think the BBC have worked it out as they have a vested interest. They have the British coverage from next year. But I know there are quite a few people out there who are seriously questioning why they watch when the result will just be changed afterwards to ensure Ferrari win. The BBC are in real danger of taking over just as the FIA destroy they sport so as no-one wants to watch it.
 
For once I'll be watching the highlights on ITV tonight. See what they have to say about this crock of s***.

Think the BBC hit the nail on the head.
 
I don't think anyone else has mentioned it but Timo Glock has also been given a 25 second penalty, in his case for ignoring yellow flags.

I think we have to question why some drivers were not penalised for the way the rejoined the track after having minor offs right in from of fast moving cars...
 
Did anyone else catch the bit when James Allen was talking about the difference between the Ferrari and the McLaren cars?

I couldn't help chuckling (given the conspiracy over leaked engineering details) when he said: "Amazing to think these two cars share almost no parts in common, yet they're lapping within four tenths of a second of each other..." :D
 
robbieduncan said:
I think we have to question why some drivers were not penalised for the way the rejoined the track after having minor offs right in from of fast moving cars...
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Because that wouldn't have made any difference to Ferrari winning.

CortexRock said:
Did anyone else catch the bit when James Allen was talking about the difference between the Ferrari and the McLaren cars?

I couldn't help chuckling (given the conspiracy over leaked engineering details) when he said: "Amazing to think these two cars share almost no parts in common, yet they're lapping within four tenths of a second of each other..." :D
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I missed that down to the fact I've trained my brain to ignore everything James Allen says :D
 
CortexRock said:
Did anyone else catch the bit when James Allen was talking about the difference between the Ferrari and the McLaren cars?

I couldn't help chuckling (given the conspiracy over leaked engineering details) when he said: "Amazing to think these two cars share almost no parts in common, yet they're lapping within four tenths of a second of each other..." :D
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That was funny. I suppose they might both have the same wheels...
 
robbieduncan said:
I don't think anyone else has mentioned it but Timo Glock has also been given a 25 second penalty, in his case for ignoring yellow flags.

I think we have to question why some drivers were not penalised for the way the rejoined the track after having minor offs right in from of fast moving cars...
Click to expand...

I do agree

There were two near misses I saw, think one at the chicane (can't remember who) and when lewis and kimi came around, but the shot was from the car so didn't get a good view. I do agree they should of waited just a bit, they have already screwed up, a second isn't going to help.
 
Here's the video of the incident.

From the look of things, Hamilton had the edge going into the first part of the chicane but he had lost it by the time the pair began turning left.

ZZ5A613B9F.jpg


At this point Hamilton is clearly behind. When the pair move on, Kimi is already beginning to give him room.

ZZ502306E0.jpg


It's Hamilton's responsibility as the chasing driver to ensure that there isn't an accident. He should simply have lifted off at this point, but chose to cut the track instead.

Driver breaks the rules = driver penalised. End of story?
 
neiltc13 said:
Here's the video of the incident.

From the look of things, Hamilton had the edge going into the first part of the chicane but he had lost it by the time the pair began turning left.


At this point Hamilton is clearly behind. When the pair move on, Kimi is already beginning to give him room.



It's Hamilton's responsibility as the chasing driver to ensure that there isn't an accident. He should simply have lifted off at this point, but chose to cut the track instead.

Driver breaks the rules = driver penalised. End of story?
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He did lift off and gave him the place back.
 
neiltc13 said:
Here's the video of the incident.

From the look of things, Hamilton had the edge going into the first part of the chicane but he had lost it by the time the pair began turning left.

At this point Hamilton is clearly behind. When the pair move on, Kimi is already beginning to give him room.

It's Hamilton's responsibility as the chasing driver to ensure that there isn't an accident. He should simply have lifted off at this point, but chose to cut the track instead.

Driver breaks the rules = driver penalised. End of story?
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You said Hamilton had the advantage going in to the chichane so why should he back off. He took action to avoid a crash. Kimi could've easily moved over to the right to do the same but deliberately forced Hamilton over by actively steering in towards him. Then once they were both safely around the corner he yielded the position and as such was further back than he was when they were going to to the corners (i.e. side by side).

If he they had collided it would've gone down as a racing incident (IMO).

scotthayes said:
He did lift off and gave him the place back.
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Indeed.

This penalty is such a farce.

edit:

Don't panic said:
no, he used the cut to his advantage, to set the next pass. if he hadn't cut, he wouldn't have been in the position to pas raikkonen. which is too bad, because he would have very likely passed him shortly after. but he did cut the chicane to gain an advantage.
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He yielded the place but his car was performing much better to the extent that in the time it was behind the Ferrari it managed to pull past again. He would've been past him on the straight anyway but actually made it harder for himself by easing off to let Kimi past.
 
He cut to avoid a collision, it was the most sensible decision. How is there and advantage. He is going slower than Kimi. Kimi is in front of him. It is Kimi who should of defended on the next corner better rather than weaving around like a amateur weekend go-cart racer.
 
Don't panic said:
no, he used the cut to his advantage, to set the next pass. if he hadn't cut, he wouldn't have been in the position to pas raikkonen. which is too bad, because he would have very likely passed him shortly after. but he did cut the chicane to gain an advantage.
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Was going to say that you are talking out of your arse, but xUKHCx & remmy put it so much better


xUKHCx said:
You said Hamilton had the advantage going in to the chichane so why should he back off. He took action to avoid a crash. Kimi could've easily moved over to the right to do the same but deliberately forced Hamilton over by actively steering in towards him. Then once they were both safely around the corner he yielded the position and as such was further back than he was when they were going to to the corners (i.e. side by side).

If he they had collided it would've gone down as a racing incident (IMO).



Indeed.

This penalty is such a farce.

edit:



He yielded the place but his car was performing much better to the extent that in the time it was behind the Ferrari it managed to pull past again. He would've been past him on the straight anyway but actually made it harder for himself by easing off to let Kimi past.
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remmy said:
He cut to avoid a collision, it was the most sensible decision. How is there and advantage. He is going slower than Kimi. Kimi is in front of him. It is Kimi who should of defended on the next corner better rather than weaving around like a amateur weekend go-cart racer.
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lewis overshot the first turn by a mile, and he did it because he knew he could cut through the chicane, when the manouver (obviously) wouldn't stick.
If this wasn't a chicane with the clear path across it, he wouldn't have ever attempted the pass in such way.
and to claim that he wasn't in a better position by cutting the chicane that he would have been by coming out after him and kimi both rounding the second corner properly is being willingly blind.

Would have Hamilton passed raikkonen before the end of the race? probably
but:
did he gain an advantage by cutting the chicane? certainly yes

again, it's not just about position it's about gaining advantage.
Would you object to a driver regularly cutting a chicane and thus shaving a 1" each lap, without ever passing anybody during the cut?
 
I also wonder if anyone would really be so bothered had the other driver not been British.
 
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