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2009 Formula One Thread

They don't seem that bad. It seems more about forcing teams to cut back on excessive spending (which also serves to equalize), as well as give other smaller teams more options. At the same time it doesn't stop the large teams from staying mostly the same (e.g. in house engine development).
 
Banning the test teams is huge - that alone will save a shed-load of money amongst the big teams while not putting the smaller teams who cannot afford them at a permanent disadvantage.

I'm not sure how the wind-tunnel rules will work. If it requires new wind tunnels to be built, that's just stupid (of course, this is the FIA). If they can modify their existing tunnels, then that's not so bad.

I can handle the engine rules. Ultra-high-revving units are no longer relevant to consumer automobiles (even BMW is moving to low-rev turbo units for their M division to meet emissions and economy measures).

Even the 2010 rules are not too bad. I think refueling was a mistake, though it did make for interesting strategies. Though are they talking about banning tire changes, as well?


Interesting that Honda decided to walk even with all these changes coming that would have reduced their costs.
 
I'm guessing teams that have full size wind tunnels will be allowed to continue using them, just with 60% models.

The cut in wind tunnel time will have most affect, as some teams run theirs almost 24/7.

These cuts are definitely going to put a lot of people out of jobs. Teams will have no need for a test team, as the race team can conduct the off-season testing. Gearbox designers will be surplus to requirements. A lot of other designers will be laid off.

The hugest impact will be in general development. There is so much testing that goes on before something is allowed to run at a race. Without the in-season tests teams will be extremely wary of running anything new. If all testing is to be conducted on Friday, teams will have to commit to running untested components and risk their entire weekend if they require large changes to the car that can't be changed quickly.
 
not to mention the drivers of the test teams.
a lot of those drivers moved into the lineup.
and now we will have none of those.

this is ($*t.
i hope that old geezer croaks, along with his dominatrix antics ( was it him who got caught with those russian dominatrix prostitutes?)

even if he didn't have the prostitutes, he should still pass away.
 
These changes were decided by the teams. If Mosley had pushed his changes through there would be an uproar.

They all realised that they couldn't go on spending as much as they are, teams have been spending unconceivable amounts on even the smallest things, and in the case of many teams they've been getting nothing back.

What F1 needs is a few years of low-budget motorsport until the current economic conditions pass. Then development should increase again in a way that is sustainable, as well as beneficial for road technology to get more car manufacturers interested in F1.

I've been saying for years that what F1 needs is a refuelling ban and production based engines (like the 80s but less insane), it looks like it's going that way eventually.
 
Me neither ;)

For a period F1 cars had turbocharged engines based on production blocks of 1.5l. This sounds pretty tame, but the turbochargers were so massive that the engines were sometimes putting out almost 1500bhp. There were also rules banning refuelling, so the tactical game moved out of the pitlane and into the drivers' mind. Do you push at the beginning but then have to go easy at the end to save tyres/fuel or do you wait until the end and catch the early leaders by surprise?
 
SpookTheHamster said:
Me neither ;)

For a period F1 cars had turbocharged engines based on production blocks of 1.5l. This sounds pretty tame, but the turbochargers were so massive that the engines were sometimes putting out almost 1500bhp. There were also rules banning refuelling, so the tactical game moved out of the pitlane and into the drivers' mind. Do you push at the beginning but then have to go easy at the end to save tyres/fuel or do you wait until the end and catch the early leaders by surprise?
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ya i knew they were turbocharged and were monsters but i had no idea about the fueling. and im guessing no tire change?
 
benlangdon said:
and im guessing no tire change?
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You were allowed to change tyres... indeed Mansell changed 5 wheels in Brazil 1989. ;) You were also allowed to run different compounds on each corner as well.

From what I can remember BMW used pre-stressed production engine blocks, I'm not sure if other manufacturers of the era did, though the insane outputs were very much limited to qualifying only.

It's easy to look back at previous era's in F1 through rose tinted spectacles, but you only need read the contemporary press of the time, particular from the 1980's through the 1990's to realise that a lot of the current criticism not only existed, but also applied to F1 then as well.
 
iGav said:
It's easy to look back at previous era's in F1 through rose tinted spectacles, but you only need read the contemporary press of the time, particular from the 1980's through the 1990's to realise that a lot of the current criticism not only existed, but also applied to F1 then as well.
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ya i know, we are always going to moan and groan like little babies.;)
 
iGav said:
You were allowed to change tyres... indeed Mansell changed 5 wheels in Brazil 1989. ;)
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Then there was Donington Park in 1993, when Prost changed his tires every other lap (seven times, actually) due to the wacky weather. :p Though Senna sure did have a great race, even if he scored Fast Lap by driving through the pit lane (since it was shorter then doing it on the track).
 
http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews/2008/12/8775.html

Changing the points system to Gold, Silver, and Bronze medals?! What is wrong with Ecclestone and company?! They are destroying the sport! Engine freeze, that was cool, now we'll have the same thing for the next 10 years. Let's take the sport back to the old days, when real technological advancements came from Formula 1, when the sport was a true racer's sport. Now it's just a bunch of old men, dictating what happens, slowly pushing towards spec racing.

Thoughts?
 
SteveMobs said:
http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews/2008/12/8775.html

Changing the points system to Gold, Silver, and Bronze medals?! What is wrong with Ecclestone and company?! They are destroying the sport! Engine freeze, that was cool, now we'll have the same thing for the next 10 years. Let's take the sport back to the old days, when real technological advancements came from Formula 1, when the sport was a true racer's sport. Now it's just a bunch of old men, dictating what happens, slowly pushing towards spec racing.

Thoughts?
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Formula One has to change. If people think we can go on as it is then people are very narrow minded. What makes Formula One a great sport? It's not the technology, its the close racing and the glamour. Would you notice any difference if the cars are limited to 18000rpm or 19000rpm? That would probably save the teams about $20million per year. Formula One is an entertainment business that just so happens to use very high technology.

Take soccer for an example. Would it be as good if you had the worlds best players with the most skill but every game was 0-0? No, you want entertainment and lots of goals.

Bernie wants entertainment. He wants driver to challenge each other. Sitting in the pack accepting a 3rd place finish is not enough. He wants to see drivers challenge each other at the front of the grid.
 
I see your point, and I think it makes apparent that there are different types of fans that support the sport.

I for one think technology and speed are the coolest aspect. The yachts sitting in Monaco harbor, sure they're nice, but what peeks my interest is the cars, not the women or the glamour. Knowing those crazy facts, the horsepower, the rpm, the speed, make everything so much cooler for me.

Then there's the fan who doesn't really go for the racing, but because each race is one huge crazy social event. Big parties, other rich people to talk to, and a place to just burn money.

I think those are the two biggest fan bases, if you can point out any other, feel free.
 
SteveMobs said:
I think those are the two biggest fan bases, if you can point out any other, feel free.
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I think Formula One is in a very unusual situation for a sport. Take most sports, football, rugby, cricket, baseball, you all follow a team or a country. That is unusual in motorsport. OK, you get your Hamilton fans and your Kimi fans, but generally people will enjoy watching motorsport. I will happily watch lawnmower racing if it is competitive. I think there are three fan bases in Formula One.

The glamour and glitz fans who read about it in the Sun and want to see Lewis Hamiton's new bit-on-the-side.

The tech people (although I think that is quite a small crowd these days)

The race fans who like to watch racing. These are the people who have MotorsTV bookmarked on their Sky box. These are the "true" fans that the FIA are interested in. THe viewing figures in this category are down for Formula One but up in GP2, WRC and BTCC, because they provide good quality 'racing'.

I love watching GP2, they all drive like it is their last race and they have to win. Brilliant. Cars sliding, people out breaking themselves. Formula One is too clinical. I knew a doctor who worked in Africa and he preferred it out there to working in the UK, he said it was more 'raw' and living by the seat of your pants style. Same as the lower series of motorsport. No much money but they put on a great show with what they have.

Formula One has lost its way in that sense.

All these cost cutting measures will do is allow teams to make staff redundant. For example, no test teams, thats 50 people per team gone. Limited win tunnel running, maybe another 50 or so. Straight away that is 100 people gone, if your average wage in an F1 team is about £50k then it soon adds up. Then all your savings in terms of travel to tests.

You will still have the glitz and glamor and the racing should not be effected too much.

How can Honda justify spending £200 million per year on something that has no real return. All this 'migration of technology into road cars' is crap, if it where true then no Honda would do more than 50 miles before it broke down.

Motorsport is a great industry to work in and at the end of the day it provides an income to many people, hell I used to be one of them, but it has had it's day in terms of paying big salaries and teams are realising this pretty quickly. To the same extent Formula One is bigger than any one job so for the good of the sport these changes had to be made. I still have a lot of friends at Honda and they will not be having the best Christmas, but for Formula One it may be a good thing.
 
R.Youden said:
How can Honda justify spending £200 million per year on something that has no real return. All this 'migration of technology into road cars' is crap, if it where true then no Honda would do more than 50 miles before it broke down.
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are you serious?

im sorry, i don't think im going to be posting here anymore.
 
benlangdon said:
are you serious?

im sorry, i don't think im going to be posting here anymore.
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No I am not being directly serious, of course Honda make some of the reliable road cars out there.

My point is that for a long time the big car manufacturers have lived with the 'we spend so much money on Formula One and use lots of its technology in our road cars' excuse for the outgoings they have.

So the new Honda Jazz is going to be fitted with a seven speed sequential gear box and a 18,000 rpm V8? The only team in Formula One who may use more than 5% of the technology they use in the development of a Formula One car is Ferrari and they are not your normal company. Honda, Toyota, Renault, BMW and even Mercedes can't use this technology. And as for these new rules, Ferrari is probably the one company that can get around these rules. The can spend a load of money developing a 'road car' and then migrate the technology across to F1.

People live in a bubble when it come to Formula One, they think it is the pinnacle of technology in the automotive industry. That is so far from the truth. OK, they have very impressive engines and gearboxes with fantastic aerodynamics, but your Ford Mondeo has more technology in it. Honda used to send their new engineers to work for the Formula One team before working on their road cars. I think that says a lot about how they viewed the technology levels in motorsport.

All Formula One is is a big boys and their toys business, just like football or any other sport these days. Money talks and if you know how to spend it, you will do OK, if not, then you will fail.

Sorry if you don't like it, but that is how it is.
 
I always had this feeling that Honda got into F1 more for the marketing side. Quite a expensive way to go about it, but when they painted up their cars as Earth Cars without sponsours or even there own branding.
 
here's some news of Alonso possibly having a conract with Ferrari starting from 2011, could start at 2010 depending on Kimi's performance.

This still hasn't been confirmed, but it hasn't been denied by any sides.

I really don't like Ferrari, but I'm an Alonso fan and think it will be good for the sport to have Hamilton in McLaren and Alonso in Ferrari

Link
 
Makes sense.

I think the WDC means more to Ferrari then the CC, however Kimi/Felipe have successfully secured the CC the last two years (and even if McLaren had not been thrown out in 2007, Ferrari still ended up with more CC points at the end of Brazil since McLaren did not appeal their exclusion from Hungary[?]) and they barely won the 2007 WDC and barely lost the 2008 WDC so I can see why they are keeping them together for another two years to see if they can win any more.

Also, Alonso made it clear at McLaren that he must be a pure #1 ala Schumacher, which is a role Felipe is not going to accept, especially after his performance last year. So Ferrari will really need two new drivers - Alonso and a clear #2. And with Felipe's performance this year, tossing him at the end of the season (with Kimi) to get Alonso and some nobody into the car would have smacked of the arrogance/incompetence of Frank Williams - and look where WGPE is nowadays...
 
CWallace said:
Also, Alonso made it clear at McLaren that he must be a pure #1 ala Schumacher, which is a role Felipe is not going to accept, especially after his performance last year. So Ferrari will really need two new drivers - Alonso and a clear #2. And with Felipe's performance this year, tossing him at the end of the season (with Kimi) to get Alonso and some nobody into the car would have smacked of the arrogance/incompetence of Frank Williams - and look where WGPE is nowadays...
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If Phil can pull off a WDC -- which he certainly has the chance to -- that will complicate things enormously if Fred won't accept having an equal as a teammate.

I think that's total B.S. anyway. So what if you can beat everyone else using a better car. I want to see you beat your team mate with an equal car too.
 
RaceTripper said:
So what if you can beat everyone else using a better car. I want to see you beat your team mate with an equal car too.
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What was frustrating with the Alonso/Hamilton/McLaren times was that McLaren made large gains thanks to Alonso's development skills. Hamilton benefited from those developments. Towards the end of the season, Alonso was pretty much ousted from the team. One of the main disadvantages he had to face was not being allowed to race under his preferred type of brakes. He was just told to "come race", and with all that, I still think he preformed brilliantly.

I think an Alonso/Ferrari mix will devastate all of the F1 teams and Ferrari will once again see the glory days they had with Schumacher :D
 
M. Malone said:
What was frustrating with the Alonso/Hamilton/McLaren times was that McLaren made large gains thanks to Alonso's development skills. Hamilton benefited from those developments.
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That's what it means to be part of a team.

What goes around, comes around. If Alonso had stuck around and been a good sport, he would have ultimately drawn some benefit from Hamilton's work as well.
 
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