2010-2011 College Football Thread

[Tomorrow]

I hate that tie breaker meathod. I think a better one is the school with the best gradutation rate for their football team should win out in a 3 way.
Of course that would screw OU, and UT which are at the bottom but I think they should reward schools who give their players something for the future.

Well hell, why even play football at all? Let's just crow about whose school has the best graduation rates and award them with a football championship!

And why stop there? We can award the same school the championships in baseball, gymnastics, lacrosse, water polo, and diving at the same time!

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Well hell, why even play football at all? Let's just crow about whose school has the best graduation rates and award them with a football championship!

And why stop there? We can award the same school the championships in baseball, gymnastics, lacrosse, water polo, and diving at the same time!

It should be what goes for a 3 way tie.
Right now there is ZERO and I mean ZERO reason for the schools to give a damn about the football players getting a degree or any sports.
I think the NCAA really needs to crack down on it. Football and basketball being the worse offenders.
But at least this way in a 3 way tie you reward the schools that choose to make sure its players succeeded academically as well gets rewarded in a small way.

 

[dukebound85]

It should be what goes for a 3 way tie.
Right now there is ZERO and I mean ZERO reason for the schools to give a damn about the football players getting a degree or any sports.
I think the NCAA really needs to crack down on it. Football and basketball being the worse offenders.
But at least this way in a 3 way tie you reward the schools that choose to make sure its players succeeded academically as well gets rewarded in a small way.

I would argue schools don't really care if regular students graduate as well. Why should athletes be any different? It is not as if the school holds the hand of non-athletes and telling/helping them to graduate. In fact, I would say that athletes have more resources readily available than non athletes when it comes to academic matters (designated tutors, advisors, team officials)

In short, the onus is on the individual to maximize their time at school and subsequently graduate, athlete or not. If they fail, well too bad. They were given the opportunity.

 

[Tomorrow]

It should be what goes for a 3 way tie.

I would agree with you, except that it has ZERO and I mean ZERO to do with football.

 

[IgnatiusTheKing]

I hate that tie breaker meathod. I think a better one is the school with the best gradutation rate for their football team should win out in a 3 way.
Of course that would screw OU, and UT which are at the bottom but I think they should reward schools who give their players something for the future.

Well in all fairness the BCS thing is one of the last of the Big 12 tiebreaker methods. I'm not sure I can think of any better method other than the top four.

1. The records of the three teams will be compared against each other
2. The records of the three teams will be compared within their division
3. The records of the three teams will be compared against the next highest placed teams in their division in order of finish (4, 5 and 6)
4. The records of the three teams will be compared against all common conference opponents.
5. The highest ranked team in the first Bowl Championship Series poll following the completion of Big 12 regular season conference play shall be the representative in the Big 12 Championship Game, unless two of the tied teams are ranked within one spot of the other in the BCS poll. In this case, the head-to-head results of the top two ranked tied teams shall determine the representative in the Big 12 Championship Game.
6. The team with the best overall winning percentage (excluding exempted games) shall be the representative.
7. The representative will be chosen by draw.

Graduation rate would probably be the only dumber way to settle it, though. How would you account for players leaving early for the NFL? The school/program has no way to keep students in school when the business world is waving millions of dollars at them, nor should they. If the goal of a university is to prepare a kid for life in the "real world", getting them a job paying millions of dollars is pretty decent preparation.

I'm guessing that the only reason you are throwing that out is because Tech has a higher graduation rate than the others. If that weren't the case you would never argue for it.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

I would argue schools don't really care if regular students graduate as well. Why should athletes be any different? It is not as if the school holds the hand of non-athletes and telling/helping them to graduate. In fact, I would say that athletes have more resources readily available than non athletes when it comes to academic matters (designated tutors, advisors, team officials)

In short, the onus is on the individual to maximize their time at school and subsequently graduate, athlete or not. If they fail, well too bad. They were given the opportunity.

Funny thing is the schools do care. State funding gets pretty pissed off when the rates get to low and funding from the state is tied to graduation rates. They get more money when a student completes a degree.

Well in all fairness the BCS thing is one of the last of the Big 12 tiebreaker methods. I'm not sure I can think of any better method other than the top four.



Graduation rate would probably be the only dumber way to settle it, though. How would you account for players leaving early for the NFL? The school/program has no way to keep students in school when the business world is waving millions of dollars at them, nor should they. If the goal of a university is to prepare a kid for life in the "real world", getting them a job paying millions of dollars is pretty decent preparation.

I'm guessing that the only reason you are throwing that out is because Tech has a higher graduation rate than the others. If that weren't the case you would never argue for it.

I suggest you look up how graduation rates for NCAA are calculated. They give the student 6 years to complete the degree.
If they transfer or leave school in good standing they are not counted for or against the team. So players that go into the draft do not hurt them.

Now I know the school you root for is pretty far down on the list. To me something is very wrong when Football team is below 50% hell OU and UT I want to say are near 40%. No were close to those schools respective rate of around 60-70% of the entire student body. People leaving or transferring do count against that rate.

So NCAA rates have extra ways to fluff up their numbers for the rate and the school them self have stuff bring it down.

 

[Tomorrow]

I have a strong dislike for #5:

The highest ranked team in the first Bowl Championship Series poll following the completion of Big 12 regular season conference play shall be the representative in the Big 12 Championship Game, unless two of the tied teams are ranked within one spot of the other in the BCS poll. In this case, the head-to-head results of the top two ranked tied teams shall determine the representative in the Big 12 Championship Game.

In this hypothetical example, it's conceivable that Team A, ranked #4, lost to Team B, ranked #24. Team B lost to Team C, ranked #25, and Team C lost to Team A. The teams have identical records, but since Teams B and C are within one poll spot of each other, then the head-to-head records of the top two teams are used - and this case, #24 comes out on top of #4.

They should have worded it to say "unless the two highest ranked tied teams are ranked within one spot of each other in the BCS poll." If the idea was that two teams within one poll spot of each other would each have a BCS shot if they won the Championship Game, then that should be the fair comparison.

 

[dukebound85]

Funny thing is the schools do care. State funding gets pretty pissed off when the rates get to low and funding from the state is tied to graduation rates. They get more money when a student completes a degree.

Big picture they might but not individually. We are just statistics to them

 

[Rodimus Prime]

I would agree with you, except that it has ZERO and I mean ZERO to do with football.

but it does. They are giving the school scholarships to attend school there. It i a way to at least somewhat reward schools that value education higher. Not like it plays a factor expect in the odd ball 3 way ties.

 

[IgnatiusTheKing]

Wirelessly posted (htc EVO 4G: Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.2; en-us; Sprint APA9292KT Build/FRF91) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1)

I have a strong dislike for #5:

The highest ranked team in the first Bowl Championship Series poll following the completion of Big 12 regular season conference play shall be the representative in the Big 12 Championship Game, unless two of the tied teams are ranked within one spot of the other in the BCS poll. In this case, the head-to-head results of the top two ranked tied teams shall determine the representative in the Big 12 Championship Game.

In this hypothetical example, it's conceivable that Team A, ranked #4, lost to Team B, ranked #24. Team B lost to Team C, ranked #25, and Team C lost to Team A. The teams have identical records, but since Teams B and C are within one poll spot of each other, then the head-to-head records of the top two teams are used - and this case, #24 comes out on top of #4.

They should have worded it to say "unless the two highest ranked tied teams are ranked within one spot of each other in the BCS poll." If the idea was that two teams within one poll spot of each other would each have a BCS shot if they won the Championship Game, then that should be the fair comparison.

You can thank Mack Brown for that bit of nonsense.

 

[echeck]

We didn't jump them yet, but we will next week if we handle Fresno State at home AND on ESPN.

I don't think Auburn wins out, either. I think they fall to Alabama.

Roll Tide Roll!

 

[dmr727]

Now I know the school you root for is pretty far down on the list. To me something is very wrong when Football team is below 50% hell OU and UT I want to say are near 40%. No were close to those schools respective rate of around 60-70% of the entire student body. People leaving or transferring do count against that rate.

You're throwing a lot of garbage around for a fan of a school that has the lowest athletic graduation rate in our conference.

At the end of the day the onus of graduation is on the students, so why should it be any different for athletes? Besides, if graduation rates became important, schools would just find ways to help their athletes graduate more easily.

 

[CorvusCamenarum]

We didn't jump them yet, but we will next week if we handle Fresno State at home AND on ESPN.

I don't think Auburn wins out, either. I think they fall to Alabama.

Roll Tide Roll!

It's sad that the best Alabama can hope for at this point is to crush someone else's dreams. Then again, we get what we deserve after so much sloppy play this season.

That being said, moving the game to Black Friday was a colossal exercise in stupidity.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

You're throwing a lot of garbage around for a fan of a school that has the lowest athletic graduation rate in our conference.

At the end of the day the onus of graduation is on the students, so why should it be any different for athletes? Besides, if graduation rates became important, schools would just find ways to help their athletes graduate more easily.

Oh I think it is sad but if you look at that list and lets just look at football,.

OU was at 44% Texas it as 49% compared to TTU 69% in football.
http://www.examiner.com/sports-in-k...op-national-average-football-graduation-rates

That list is not crap. As I said OU and UT are at the bottom in football.

I think it is sad how low they are. As much bending over backwards school do for atheletes and how the schools with the better programs seem to care less about their students. It is really sad.
MU proves you can have a great football team and still get them to do well in school since clearly MU has been doing pretty well and is at the top of the list.

 

[dmr727]

Oh I think it is sad but if you look at that list and lets just look at football,.

Why is football any more important than other sports? If you're genuinely concerned about the kids, then it shouldn't matter what sport they play.

I don't think it's a big deal. I see 49% and think, so what? The kids don't care. The school doesn't care. The athletic department doesn't care. The NCAA doesn't care. So who am I to start asking for change when everyone that's actually involved doesn't give a crap?

When I was at UT, I could walk away at any time and there wouldn't be a single person to come up to me and lecture me on the importance of a college education. The responsibility was on me, and me alone to graduate. Why should it be any different for an athlete?

 

[IgnatiusTheKing]

This is a stupid argument. The NCAA punishes schools who don't meet specific graduation criteria, but the loss of a scholarship or two (as if THAT makes any sense) is as close as you'll ever get to seeing graduation rates affect championships.

In other news, look at this clown. Doesn't he know that he's on TV (and now immortalized on the Internet forever)? Band nerds...

 

[-aggie-]

You're throwing a lot of garbage around for a fan of a school that has the lowest athletic graduation rate in our conference.

At the end of the day the onus of graduation is on the students, so why should it be any different for athletes? Besides, if graduation rates became important, schools would just find ways to help their athletes graduate more easily.

I think you just gave him an "Oh, snap" moment.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Why is football any more important than other sports? If you're genuinely concerned about the kids, then it shouldn't matter what sport they play.

I don't think it's a big deal. I see 49% and think, so what? The kids don't care. The school doesn't care. The athletic department doesn't care. The NCAA doesn't care. So who am I to start asking for change when everyone that's actually involved doesn't give a crap?

When I was at UT, I could walk away at any time and there wouldn't be a single person to come up to me and lecture me on the importance of a college education. The responsibility was on me, and me alone to graduate. Why should it be any different for an athlete?

Somebody should care. Personally I feel it is the NCAA job to care because that means that the 50% who did not give a crap kept that many people who did care but needed a scholarship to go to school from getting a degree. Remember it is a trickle down effect here. Lets assume UT increased its rate. That means that they are going to take some players from a smaller school that do care and that smaller school will have to get some other players to fill those void and so on.
I say it is across the board things need to change but Basketball and Football are by far the worse offenders. I think TTU graduation rate for basketball of 44% is sickening.

They are taking those kids using them up and spitting them out. Even if they go pro and lets say that going pro is +1 for graduation. It is not going to improve it much at all.

 

[cuestakid]

I can tell you why the schools don't care, the ADs (the departments and directors) don't care and why the NCAA don't care-

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

no games-no $$

no $$-no new chem/bio labs, libraries, engineering labs, professor bonuses, ect.

The NCAA is a business-plain and simple. If you don't have money, you don't get to play in the sandbox.

This is part of the reason that the TCUs and Bosies get screwed-they cannot financially compete with LSU, Florida, Alabama, USC and the rest. I will even include Stanford in this group but for the opposite reason- Stanford must keep its academic standards, regardless of impact on athletic performance and I personally think that is why we will never win a national championship in football

 

[dukebound85]

Enough with this graduation talk. Seriously

Tie breakers should be a function of the game and the game alone. There is no need to being in non-game aspects to determine game related issues period.

Regarding graduation....it is soley up to the students, not the school. You can not make the student graduate but the schools do give them every opportunity under the sun so it is not their fault in the slightest if they do not graduate. This applies to all students. No one is going to graduate for you, you have to do it....meaning making the most of your time at college.

The fact that many athletes waste it is their problem. The school didn't make them flunk out. The decided to leave.

Somebody should care.

You are right. That somebody should be the student himself

Personally I feel it is the NCAA job to care because that means that the 50% who did not give a crap kept that many people who did care but needed a scholarship to go to school from getting a degree.

You do realize that football programs bring in much more revenue to cover the cost of atheltic scholarships. The better a school does, the more they get in boosters and etc. It is a business. You can't simply compare an athletic scholarship to a situation of a regular student not getting a scholarship

Remember it is a trickle down effect here. Lets assume UT increased its rate. That means that they are going to take some players from a smaller school that do care and that smaller school will have to get some other players to fill those void and so on.

And once you do that, you don't get the blue chips anymore as there are many who are freaks of nature in football, etc but arent that book smart nor care to be but are able to get in to college to play. The better the players, the better the show put on by the team and the more money they get

They are taking those kids using them up and spitting them out. Even if they go pro and lets say that going pro is +1 for graduation. It is not going to improve it much at all.

Yet I don't feel sorry for them as they are given an opportunity on a golden plate. You want to talk about taking kids up and spitting them out, lets talk about the multitudes of non student athletes that drop out of college. Or what about the kids who may be as intelligent as some of these athletes but weren't gifted athletically so they don't even get a chance like these players do? What makes student athletes more special than non athletes?

 

[Rodimus Prime]

I can tell you why the schools don't care, the ADs (the departments and directors) don't care and why the NCAA don't care-

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

no games-no $$

no $$-no new chem/bio labs, libraries, engineering labs, professor bonuses, ect.

The NCAA is a business-plain and simple. If you don't have money, you don't get to play in the sandbox.

Tell you right now not a penny made off the sports goes back into the school. More often than not student have to pay out for the sports not the other way around. It was in my lovely mandatory fees while I was at school.

 

[cuestakid]

Enough with this graduation talk. Seriously

Tie breakers should be a function of the game and the game alone. There is no need to being in non-game aspects to determine game related issues period.

Regarding graduation....it is soley up to the students, not the school. You can not make the student graduate but the schools do give them every opportunity under the sun so it is not their fault in the slightest if they do not graduate. This applies to all students. No one is going to graduate for you, you have to do it....meaning making the most of your time at college.

The fact that many athletes waste it is their problem. The school didn't make them flunk out. The decided to leave.




You are right. That somebody should be the student himself



You do realize that football programs bring in much more revenue to cover the cost of atheltic scholarships. The better a school does, the more they get in boosters and etc. It is a business. You can't simply compare an athletic scholarship to a situation of a regular student not getting a scholarship


And once you do that, you don't get the blue chips anymore as there are many who are freaks of nature in football, etc but arent that book smart nor care to be but are able to get in to college to play. The better the players, the better the show put on by the team and the more money they get



Yet I don't feel sorry for them as they are given an opportunity on a golden plate. You want to talk about taking kids up and spitting them out, lets talk about the multitudes of non student athletes that drop out of college. Or what about the kids who may be as intelligent as some of these athletes but weren't gifted athletically so they don't even get a chance like these players do? What makes student athletes more special than non athletes?

Well said

 

[dukebound85]

Tell you right now not a penny made off the sports goes back into the school. More often than not student have to pay out for the sports not the other way around. It was in my lovely mandatory fees while I was at school.

You are mistaken

From the equity in athletics website
http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx


Colorado State, who has a small athletic budget to begin with nets nearly 650k in profit for all sports (revenue-expenses)
http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/InstDet...d31312f31352f323031302031323a32353a353620414d

What about say, Colorado?
http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/InstDet...d31312f31352f323031302031323a33323a303420414d
They bring in a net profit of 930k for all sports

How about a bigger school, like Texas?
http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/InstDet...d31312f31352f323031302031323a32383a343420414d

They bring in nearly 30 million in PROFIT aka revenue-expenses

 

[cuestakid]

Tell you right now not a penny made off the sports goes back into the school. More often than not student have to pay out for the sports not the other way around. It was in my lovely mandatory fees while I was at school.

In a way it does-a program that wins and gets attention attracts donors and recruits-both of which bring money to the schools, which in turn doesn't have to pay for those things.

 

[echeck]

It's sad that the best Alabama can hope for at this point is to crush someone else's dreams. Then again, we get what we deserve after so much sloppy play this season.

That being said, moving the game to Black Friday was a colossal exercise in stupidity.

No, no. Alabama can make someone else's dreams come true! Just beat Auburn, and that will happen. I'd prefer by at least two touchdowns. Don't eek out a win, otherwise voters might think Auburn is still good enough to be in the title game as a one-loss team.

The Tide has done some great things for the non-AQ's in the last few years, what will allowing themselves to be completely embarrassed by Utah in the Sugar Bowl. Now they can help get a non-AQ in to the title game!

Roll Tide Roll!!

...oh, and why is moving it to Nov. 26 a bad idea?