Think I will be purchasing the 2012 15" as it's the sweet spot but we'll see. I can't wait to see the new MBPs
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2012 Macbook Pro Redesign
- Thread starter Funkymonk
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my thoughts/worries:
If pro line gets thinner then the following would probably come true....
-ram non upgradable
-ssd comes standard and is non upgradable
-no optical drive (to slim body) which means no room for second hdd/ssd.
-conclusion, this would be a downgrade not an upgrade, in my opinion.
if anything, the only upgrade to the pro i could see (because its basically been perfect since the unibody upgrade) are the following:
-removal of the optical drive to allow factory dual hdd/sdd (im tired of buying a new optibay and installing it in every new macbook i buy)
-or use optical bay space for more ram, graphics power, or cellular 3g/4g antenna.
-removal of touch pad for touch screen.
(i have read in many articles how a touchscreen would be weird. i dont see anything weird about it. Take like 5 minutes, pretend your macbook has a touchscreen........(you will never use that track pad again) I can see an EXTREME improvement in everything i do on my macbook. I edit photos, enter data, work, play, everything. Having to move my fingers around on a pad to point a pointer at something, and then push/tap to click/select it is a little OLD SCHOOL.....like decades and decades old school......and it adds so much work/time to my job,.....pointing a dumb pointer at something)
thats it....the end....period.
if i wanted a thin laptop......i would by an air......if i wanted something smaller than an air.....id buy an ipad......i want a portable desktop....which is like the pro line.....
i would rather it be bigger and have more options than smaller with no options....
am i right or wrong here?
(just thought id jump in here, im not reading all the previous pages, sorry if what i have said has been discussed, if it has, a link to that page would be appreciated, otherwise i could care less if everyone gets mad at me for bringing any of this back up and if it hasnt been discussed then you can thank me
If pro line gets thinner then the following would probably come true....
-ram non upgradable
-ssd comes standard and is non upgradable
-no optical drive (to slim body) which means no room for second hdd/ssd.
-conclusion, this would be a downgrade not an upgrade, in my opinion.
if anything, the only upgrade to the pro i could see (because its basically been perfect since the unibody upgrade) are the following:
-removal of the optical drive to allow factory dual hdd/sdd (im tired of buying a new optibay and installing it in every new macbook i buy)
-or use optical bay space for more ram, graphics power, or cellular 3g/4g antenna.
-removal of touch pad for touch screen.
(i have read in many articles how a touchscreen would be weird. i dont see anything weird about it. Take like 5 minutes, pretend your macbook has a touchscreen........(you will never use that track pad again) I can see an EXTREME improvement in everything i do on my macbook. I edit photos, enter data, work, play, everything. Having to move my fingers around on a pad to point a pointer at something, and then push/tap to click/select it is a little OLD SCHOOL.....like decades and decades old school......and it adds so much work/time to my job,.....pointing a dumb pointer at something)
thats it....the end....period.
if i wanted a thin laptop......i would by an air......if i wanted something smaller than an air.....id buy an ipad......i want a portable desktop....which is like the pro line.....
i would rather it be bigger and have more options than smaller with no options....
am i right or wrong here?
(just thought id jump in here, im not reading all the previous pages, sorry if what i have said has been discussed, if it has, a link to that page would be appreciated, otherwise i could care less if everyone gets mad at me for bringing any of this back up and if it hasnt been discussed then you can thank me
my thoughts/worries:
am i right or wrong here?
(just thought id jump in here, im not reading all the previous pages, sorry if what i have said has been discussed, if it has, a link to that page would be appreciated, otherwise i could care less if everyone gets mad at me for bringing any of this back up and if it hasnt been discussed then you can thank me
The fact is, it doesn't matter if you're right or wrong. I happen to agree with you but Apple will go the route that they feel will be the most profitable. They'd rather convince 5 million coffee shop hipsters that they're "pros" than make a machine that the 500,000 actual pros want to use. It's a good business model and it's working for them.
At this point all we can do is hope to minimize damage
I hope it not to be true, but... I believe that:
The 13" MBP is to be discontinued - consumed by the greeter convergence of design.
I just hope that a 15" MBP remains, although this to could be on the block.
Would not be a complete surprise if the 17" remind as the only real work beast.
Im waiting for the new versions to come out to get my first mac of any kind, but non-upgradeable macbook pros would be much less appealing.
I wonder what is the likelyhood of this happening because if its true Id rather buy the current macs. Quite confused.
I wonder what is the likelyhood of this happening because if its true Id rather buy the current macs. Quite confused.
The report you quoted states that the 13'' will begin production in June, with initial shipments of 400,000. How do you go from that to "The 13'' MBP is to be discontinued?"
Of course one can argue what exactly differentiates the 13'' Pro and Air models once you remove the ODD. It's mostly the CPU, and maybe upgradable RAM...
The fact is, it doesn't matter if you're right or wrong. I happen to agree with you but Apple will go the route that they feel will be the most profitable. They'd rather convince 5 million coffee shop hipsters that they're "pros" than make a machine that the 500,000 actual pros want to use. It's a good business model and it's working for them.
At this point all we can do is hope to minimize damage
Oh how I hate those coffee shop hipsters.
Fortunately there aren't many coffee shop hipsters in Poland - probably because Mac is very expensive in relation to the wages and because it's hard to be a hipster with a HP or Asus laptop
But getting back to the main topic.
@Boe11:
I don't think that will be the case, although it may be, I admit it's plausible. But from what I've noticed Apple's image is that it's a "pro's brand". From what I've noticed: I work in a creative department and the majority of art directors work on Macs (Mac Pros that are soon going to be replaced with 17 inch MBPs) both at the office and at home.
Another thing is the perception and at least in Poland Apple is seen as either a
- hipsters' brand
or/and
- a pros' brand.
Probably a lot of the hipsters buy Mac due to the latter "imaginery" aspect.
But if Apple stops making hardware for professionals that "Apple is for pros" legend will soon die - even if my friends would keep buying from Apple they will soon realize that the hardware isn't sufficient for their work (most of them, including me work freelance as side jobs), so they would have to go find something else - for example they say the ODD is mandatory in their line of work, although I assume the could compromise for a while with an external drive. But that could be the deal breaker for them in a long term.
So as a summary I would say that although making truly professional hardware may not be as profitable as selling ipad, iphones etc it matters in regards of the brand's image. Basically every company makes high end computers with a "pro" sticker on them - that's a matter of prestige. Even if the consumer will not buy the high end HP Pavillion the Pavillion's prestige and image will be projected by the customer on to the cheaper HP.
It's similar with Apple. If one's going to get the MB Air it's partly because of the design, the mobility and performance power, but it's also because it's "almost" MB Pro or "it's from the company that makes MBP or Mac Pros used by filmmakers, artists etc".
Therefore whether one likes it or not I believe that the brand image is an important factor - and the "pro" label that Apple has is, at least in my view, as important for Apple's image as is the "innovative", "cool" etc labels they have.
But getting back to the main topic.
@Boe11:
I don't think that will be the case, although it may be, I admit it's plausible. But from what I've noticed Apple's image is that it's a "pro's brand". From what I've noticed: I work in a creative department and the majority of art directors work on Macs (Mac Pros that are soon going to be replaced with 17 inch MBPs) both at the office and at home.
Another thing is the perception and at least in Poland Apple is seen as either a
- hipsters' brand
or/and
- a pros' brand.
Probably a lot of the hipsters buy Mac due to the latter "imaginery" aspect.
But if Apple stops making hardware for professionals that "Apple is for pros" legend will soon die - even if my friends would keep buying from Apple they will soon realize that the hardware isn't sufficient for their work (most of them, including me work freelance as side jobs), so they would have to go find something else - for example they say the ODD is mandatory in their line of work, although I assume the could compromise for a while with an external drive. But that could be the deal breaker for them in a long term.
So as a summary I would say that although making truly professional hardware may not be as profitable as selling ipad, iphones etc it matters in regards of the brand's image. Basically every company makes high end computers with a "pro" sticker on them - that's a matter of prestige. Even if the consumer will not buy the high end HP Pavillion the Pavillion's prestige and image will be projected by the customer on to the cheaper HP.
It's similar with Apple. If one's going to get the MB Air it's partly because of the design, the mobility and performance power, but it's also because it's "almost" MB Pro or "it's from the company that makes MBP or Mac Pros used by filmmakers, artists etc".
Therefore whether one likes it or not I believe that the brand image is an important factor - and the "pro" label that Apple has is, at least in my view, as important for Apple's image as is the "innovative", "cool" etc labels they have.
EwanMcTeagle raises a good point.
Even if Apple didn't make no profit at all from their pro market (the ones that use Mac Pros and 17" MBPs with software like Final Cut Pro and Logic), I'm sure that the fact that Macs are the industry standard in a lot of "cool" industries helps Apple marketing-wise and convince regular people to buy their mainstream devices with the confidence that Apple is a serious company making stuff reaching those industries' high standards.
Even if it's indirectly, their Pro market may generate more profit than we think, and it may be a bad idea to abandon it even if it doesn't generate much profit directly compared to mainstream devices.
Even if Apple didn't make no profit at all from their pro market (the ones that use Mac Pros and 17" MBPs with software like Final Cut Pro and Logic), I'm sure that the fact that Macs are the industry standard in a lot of "cool" industries helps Apple marketing-wise and convince regular people to buy their mainstream devices with the confidence that Apple is a serious company making stuff reaching those industries' high standards.
Even if it's indirectly, their Pro market may generate more profit than we think, and it may be a bad idea to abandon it even if it doesn't generate much profit directly compared to mainstream devices.
I think Apple benefits from having 2 lines of laptops and I find some of the doomsday negativism humorous. Just because theres rumors of a slimmer design doesnt mean they will be like air and non upgradable. I think Apple realizes how bad a move it would be to make things non upgradable and if that is they way they were headed rumors would be more likely to be in the lines of "pro merging with air", which really hasnt been the case as far as Ive understood. Either way, noone knowns squat atm but some people already have way too high expectations or thinks that it will be a ****** performance air with the pro name. Both are rather doubtful.
Heres my expectations/hope:
I hope that the changes to the new Macbook Pro 15" are so interesting that I dont even consider going for the older one instead.
Thats what my expectations have become after reading all the doomsday-hype about it being a useless non upgradable air.
Heres my expectations/hope:
I hope that the changes to the new Macbook Pro 15" are so interesting that I dont even consider going for the older one instead.
Thats what my expectations have become after reading all the doomsday-hype about it being a useless non upgradable air.
... plus being able to install pretty well any third-party SSD (if that's not the case, I've already lost interest - for me the new design would then be useless in that case).
... plus a gigabit RJ-45 port. Even netbooks can find space for this! If Apple reduce us to using a USB adapter for this, it would have to be USB 3.0 to cope with the speed, and I would then want the adapter to be included in the box and not have to buy it as an extra item. For Apple, the added cost of including such an adapter with every box would be negligible in comparison to the 30 dollars or so they would no doubt want from us if we had to buy it separately. Also, if this would be the route taken, then it would be imperative that all models possess at least two USB 3.0 ports, in order to allow at least one USB 3.0 device (e.g., external HDD) to be used whilst plugged in to a network.
... plus the continued ability to choose the screen when ordering (for higher resolution and ant-glare options).
Fortunately there aren't many coffee shop hipsters in Poland - probably because Mac is very expensive in relation to the wages and because it's hard to be a hipster with a HP or Asus laptop
But getting back to the main topic.
@Boe11:
I don't think that will be the case, although it may be, I admit it's plausible. But from what I've noticed Apple's image is that it's a "pro's brand". From what I've noticed: I work in a creative department and the majority of art directors work on Macs (Mac Pros that are soon going to be replaced with 17 inch MBPs) both at the office and at home.
Another thing is the perception and at least in Poland Apple is seen as either a
- hipsters' brand
or/and
- a pros' brand.
Probably a lot of the hipsters buy Mac due to the latter "imaginery" aspect.
But if Apple stops making hardware for professionals that "Apple is for pros" legend will soon die - even if my friends would keep buying from Apple they will soon realize that the hardware isn't sufficient for their work (most of them, including me work freelance as side jobs), so they would have to go find something else - for example they say the ODD is mandatory in their line of work, although I assume the could compromise for a while with an external drive. But that could be the deal breaker for them in a long term.
So as a summary I would say that although making truly professional hardware may not be as profitable as selling ipad, iphones etc it matters in regards of the brand's image. Basically every company makes high end computers with a "pro" sticker on them - that's a matter of prestige. Even if the consumer will not buy the high end HP Pavillion the Pavillion's prestige and image will be projected by the customer on to the cheaper HP.
It's similar with Apple. If one's going to get the MB Air it's partly because of the design, the mobility and performance power, but it's also because it's "almost" MB Pro or "it's from the company that makes MBP or Mac Pros used by filmmakers, artists etc".
Therefore whether one likes it or not I believe that the brand image is an important factor - and the "pro" label that Apple has is, at least in my view, as important for Apple's image as is the "innovative", "cool" etc labels they have.
I pretty much agree with everything you said -- well put. I hope you're right and I hope we find out soon. I want to be hopeful that the MBP line won't be watered down too much, but I also don't want to get my heart broken into 1 million pieces
Aside from he rumors of an "air-like 15" and another year going by, I still don't think there's a ton of evidence that the MBP will be redesigned. Maybe they're just adding a 15" to the air line and keeping the MBP the same until haswell. Who knows!
Ideally, we'll have a keynote or online announcement about new MBPs a week or two before the IB release(similar to sandy bridge last year), and we'll be receiving shipment the day of the release
.
Depends on how big the upgrade is. For minor spec bumps, they just silently update the website. If it's a major redesign, they may hold a conference for it. Last time they revealed the new MBP designs (2008), they issued invitations to the press and held a conference just like for the iPhone / iPad. The MBPs were then available to order from the website and available in stores a couple of days later. I ordered mine online the day of the announcement and received it 1 day after they got it in store.
Sounds like an article listing all of the wild rumors that doesnt really have any SOLID footing.
I don't know but this type of rumor seems to be coming from multiple sources today. Here is another:
http://www.macworld.co.uk/mac/news/?newsid=3349119&pagtype=allchandate
I see. But the buyers guide will still be on "Buy only if you need it - Approaching the end of a cycle" though. But I need to take the buyers guide with a pinch of salt XD
The buyer's guide is a great resource that's very useful, but as far as I know, it's just based on the math, and considering it was reset last fall when the MBP got the 100mhz spec bump, I don't think it's going to be a super accurate indicator this time around.
Yeah I see. I'm looking forward to the 2012 models coming out soon hopefully
Amen, sir.