Save money and buy an Air...for a higher cost. Nice logic.
The Macbook Pros have never been purely a 'pro' consumer base. Have you been living under a rock?
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2012 Macbook Pro Redesign
- Thread starter Funkymonk
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Save money and buy an Air...for a higher cost. Nice logic.
The Macbook Pros have never been purely a 'pro' consumer base. Have you been living under a rock?
I'm not saying they're meant strictly for for pros. I'm not a "pro" whatever the hell that means, but I can make good use out of a MBP. Don't misunderstand my point. I'm saying the needs of many people I know/have seen can be accomplished by a much cheaper computer. The pro simply has too much power and costs too much.
I'm trying to help people save money here. But hey, people, go ahead and buy it so you can waste your money. I mean, it's your life. I guess Apple marketing is really influential. 😉
pgiguere1
macrumors 68020
I think he was referring to the baseline 13" MBA costing more than the baseline 13" MBP. You didn't say the 13" specifically, so I'm guessing you're seeing a mix of 13" and 15" which are probably (on average) more expensive than MacBook Airs (including the cheaper 64GB 11").
Right now it's pretty awkward because the MBP and MBA have similar prices. It's mainly due by the fact that the MBA has SSD. I think Apple thought long-term when they introduced the new MBA and expected it to be the lower segment of their MacBook line. Right now it's not seen as this because the 13" MBA costs more than the 13" MBP. But Apple knew SSD price would go down with time, and eventually MBPs will have SSDs while the baseline 999$ MBA will include a more decent configuration like 4GB RAM/128GB SSD.
At that point it will be obvious to consumers that the MBA will be targeted at mainstream users while the MBP will be for power users. Right now it's not, and with reasons. It's all about the price of SSD and this is what will ultimately change the perception of each MacBook line. When both the MBP and MBA will include SSD (which will eventually be cheaper to produce), it will be fair to compare them and the public they're targeted at will become more obvious.
Even though the MBP sells much more than the MBA, Apple obviously tries to change the public perception that the MBA is targeted at a niche market, as it was when it was introduced in 2008, and wants to make it the new white MacBook, which they discontinued to push interest towards the MBA, even though it was selling pretty well.
A little over a year ago, right after they announced the new MBPs with Core processors, I wrote a post explaining where I think the MacBook lines were heading. So far my points stand, except that I didn't think Apple would make the white MacBook disappear so fast. It explains my reasoning behind the fact that I think the MacBook Pros will stay Pro. And by Pro I mean much more powerful (and pricy) than the MBA, not that it will include obsolete tech like an optical drive.
nsilva
macrumors member
Why you mad though?
Seeing people on macrumors talking about gaming is so annoying. It's a Mac, and it's a LAPTOP. If you want to game you can build a purpose built rig for 1/2 if not 1/3 the price of a macbook. Why would you buy a macbook to game? That's not what they're for. Some people are so dumb.
Well, let's say you want OS X, then you pretty much have to get a Mac. Now let's say you also want to game. Would it be smarter to get another computer, or just use the Mac for that also?
If all you want is a gaming laptop, then sure, get a PC. But I would seriously hope there aren't people here who would buy a Mac and ONLY play games on it.
east85
macrumors 65816
Haha what. You must have missed this:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1357870/
Although gaming is obviously not the number one purpose of a Mac at this point, with the advent of Steam gaming is definitely becoming a secondary function of Mac products and I will assume this trend will continue in the future, especially as improvements are made and technologies move forward. Casual gaming on a Mac is definitely not unheard of, and has been happening for years. Being sure that your Mac will be able to play some games isn't some kind of taboo, as you make it sound.
DoNoHarm
macrumors 65816
I'm calling BS on the imminent update of the MBP. Sites like Macrumors have a vested interest in publishing stories claiming there is a new update so that people like you spend time on these boards and give them ad revenue. I'm not saying they are making stuff up, just doing what they do best: spreading Mac-Rumors.....
east85
macrumors 65816
DoNoHarm
macrumors 65816
east85
macrumors 65816
Sorry but I assumed by imminent that you were referring to SOON, as in not the exact date of the 29th. And yes, I do think that an update is imminent, as in very soon- but as far as if it will be specifically on the 29th... that's just educated guess work. Of course no one knows a specific date until an official announcement is made. We can only speculate that, based on former release cycles, production clues and stock depletion of specific models that an update is imminent.
Hey everyone, I've been "lurker" on these forums and this thread for a while but I feel like now would be a good time to join- of course, just when the drama and hype is up *omg few more weeks* 😀 I just managed to sell my Early 2011 15" MBP this past weekend at a pretty darn good price. I'm definitely holding onto what I made from the sale and will be waiting eagerly throughout the upcoming weeks 🙂 In the meantime, I'll be checking this thread very- and I do mean VERY 🙂, frequently using my phone only LOL
With all that said... I just don't see Apple fixating on idea of having a lineup of MBPs with only 128/256/512GB SSDs options. Back when I used to have dual drives; 120GB SSD on main, original 750GB HDD in the optical drive bay, I found it fairly impractical trying to put all my software and music (videowork were on the HDD) on just the SSD. Often enough I'd reach more or less around 80GB of 120GB with just the software and games I use. Like a lot of you mentioned before, not everyone (I'm guessing most people) who uses the MBP are considered "pro" users. For the most part, as a student, most people I've met across all ages and expertise use their MBP for basic work purposes, entertainment, and web surfing, etc. Picture this, imagine an Apple salesman trying to sell the 'new MBP' with a 128/256GB SSD as the base model. Surely enough he or she could ramble on and try to sell the concept of 'speed and performance' with the SSD. But really for the 'average joe', they'd probably question if the SSD (by itself) has adequate storage for their NEEDS. The answer would most likely be no half the time. Now what are the solutions? If the salesman has to ramble on further and tell the customer that he or she has to lug around an external drive, it may be a large turn-off.
Next thing in mind... Apple really hasn't offer competitive SSDs that match up to today's top SSD performers. First, all the SSDs that are optional for BTO 2011 MBP are much slower than some third party SSDs. The read and write speeds cant match up to high end OCZ Vertexs or even some Corsair models. Hopefully- since they did make an acquisition for an SSD company, they could fix this. Oh and another thing that I believe was mentioned before... If Apple does go all out on the whole slim factor, and as a result, going with the Air's blade SSDs... Yeah I don't know what to say (its highly unlikely anyways)
Personally, whether or not they stick in decent SSDs or stick with the HDD, as long as they don't Air-ify the MBP so much that you'd lose the ability to customize your MBP third party... It's all good 🙂 ability the customize yourself + slimmer form factor + decent dedicated graphics + ivy bridge itself it all I would need. It's not too much to ask for, right? 😉
Anyways these are just my thoughts 😛 Cheers!
With all that said... I just don't see Apple fixating on idea of having a lineup of MBPs with only 128/256/512GB SSDs options. Back when I used to have dual drives; 120GB SSD on main, original 750GB HDD in the optical drive bay, I found it fairly impractical trying to put all my software and music (videowork were on the HDD) on just the SSD. Often enough I'd reach more or less around 80GB of 120GB with just the software and games I use. Like a lot of you mentioned before, not everyone (I'm guessing most people) who uses the MBP are considered "pro" users. For the most part, as a student, most people I've met across all ages and expertise use their MBP for basic work purposes, entertainment, and web surfing, etc. Picture this, imagine an Apple salesman trying to sell the 'new MBP' with a 128/256GB SSD as the base model. Surely enough he or she could ramble on and try to sell the concept of 'speed and performance' with the SSD. But really for the 'average joe', they'd probably question if the SSD (by itself) has adequate storage for their NEEDS. The answer would most likely be no half the time. Now what are the solutions? If the salesman has to ramble on further and tell the customer that he or she has to lug around an external drive, it may be a large turn-off.
Next thing in mind... Apple really hasn't offer competitive SSDs that match up to today's top SSD performers. First, all the SSDs that are optional for BTO 2011 MBP are much slower than some third party SSDs. The read and write speeds cant match up to high end OCZ Vertexs or even some Corsair models. Hopefully- since they did make an acquisition for an SSD company, they could fix this. Oh and another thing that I believe was mentioned before... If Apple does go all out on the whole slim factor, and as a result, going with the Air's blade SSDs... Yeah I don't know what to say (its highly unlikely anyways)
Personally, whether or not they stick in decent SSDs or stick with the HDD, as long as they don't Air-ify the MBP so much that you'd lose the ability to customize your MBP third party... It's all good 🙂 ability the customize yourself + slimmer form factor + decent dedicated graphics + ivy bridge itself it all I would need. It's not too much to ask for, right? 😉
Anyways these are just my thoughts 😛 Cheers!
I think the timing is about right for Apple to transition the macbook pro line to solid state drives as a standard feature.
Last quarter Apple's gross margins were quite possibly the highest they'd ever been. This, during the same quarter as the announcement of the iphone 4S and before the new ipad's release.
http://www.appleinsider.com/article...argins_are_highest_in_at_least_15_years_.html
Additionally, prices for SSD's are now falling at a faster rate than platter drives and...
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ssd-hdd-solid-state-drive-hard-disk-drive-prices,14336.html
Granted, it's harder for platter drive prices to decline at a more significant rate given their already low price per GB.
However, Apple's ability to secure large-quantity component contracts at a reduced price, and the likelihood that component prices for the new ipad and iphone 4S will decrease, coupled with already historically high gross margins, the timing seems right to transition to SSD's as a standard feature at existing price points by absorbing the extra costs. Given there's room for SSD prices to still drop, Apple's gross margin's should also rebound fairly quick.
Last quarter Apple's gross margins were quite possibly the highest they'd ever been. This, during the same quarter as the announcement of the iphone 4S and before the new ipad's release.
http://www.appleinsider.com/article...argins_are_highest_in_at_least_15_years_.html
Additionally, prices for SSD's are now falling at a faster rate than platter drives and...
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ssd-hdd-solid-state-drive-hard-disk-drive-prices,14336.html
Granted, it's harder for platter drive prices to decline at a more significant rate given their already low price per GB.
However, Apple's ability to secure large-quantity component contracts at a reduced price, and the likelihood that component prices for the new ipad and iphone 4S will decrease, coupled with already historically high gross margins, the timing seems right to transition to SSD's as a standard feature at existing price points by absorbing the extra costs. Given there's room for SSD prices to still drop, Apple's gross margin's should also rebound fairly quick.
deaglecat
macrumors 6502a
OK ... here it is.
1. Superdrive retired. Space freed to allow for 2nd HDD and hence SSD to become standard on the range.
2. Ivybridge (quad cores available May and dual cores late June)
3. USB 3 included but not emphasised at launch
4. Thunderbolt port included, Firewire 800 dropped
5. No standard retina displays (... yet). Possibly options on high end models.
13" may lag the higher spec models and remain on Sandybridge and eventually go EOL.
I'll try to get more info when I see Tim for beers later today....
1. Superdrive retired. Space freed to allow for 2nd HDD and hence SSD to become standard on the range.
2. Ivybridge (quad cores available May and dual cores late June)
3. USB 3 included but not emphasised at launch
4. Thunderbolt port included, Firewire 800 dropped
5. No standard retina displays (... yet). Possibly options on high end models.
13" may lag the higher spec models and remain on Sandybridge and eventually go EOL.
I'll try to get more info when I see Tim for beers later today....
Last edited:
Does this make sense?
Ok, so I've been trying to contemplate what Apple will be doing with the 13" MBP. A couple of background points:
- 13.3" MBA was introduced in 2008
- 13.3" MBP was introduced in 2009
- 13.3" MBA redesigned in 2010
- According to the Steve Jobs Biography, Apple has designs/models for several generation down the road in their lab and most likely has a game plan for what they want to do with their products for the next couple of years
- designing/introducing a new product requires $$$ for manufacturing and other stuff
- Steve Jobs said that the MBA was the future of the notebook
- 13.3" MBP is the best selling notebook for Apple
Ok, so now I'm thinking, if Apple produced the 13" MBA first with the vision that it would be the future of the notebook, then why would they decide to add the 13" MBP over a full year later, which would require new costs for designing it and new manufacturing processes among other things, only to kill it off a mere 3 years later?
It'd be one thing if the 13" MBP came first, then the 13" MBA was released after and eventually replaced the 13" MBP similar to how the iPod Nano came to replace the iPod Mini, but this would be 13" MBA first, then 13" MBP, then kill the 13" MBP, and continue with 13" MBA 😕
If Apple only added the 13" MBP because they thought the 13" MBA wasn't powerful enough at that point to really tap into 13" notebook market, then it would only make sense to kill off the 13" MBP once the MBA is powerful enough, performance wise, to be seen by Apple as something that could penetrate the 13" notebook market as much as the 13" MBP already does. That, though, is largely dependent on Intel since that's where the MBA's performance comes from (CPU + integrated GPU) but you would think Apple would have a decent idea when that would be around. Back in 2009, when they introduced the 13" MBP, Apple would have known, or at least an idea of whether intel's processors would have been powerful enough by 2012 to replace the 13" MBP with a 13" MBA, obviously not as powerful as the MBP, but powerful/capable enough so that it could capture a good portion of the 13" consumer pool. And if they thought that they would be powerful enough in the Air by 2012 (Ivy Bridge) to displace the 13" MBP, why would they have wasted all that money making the 13" MBP for 3 years only.
Also, i'm writing this while finishing a college essay at 4am so I could be delirious at this point, but I think what I wrote made sense
Ok, so I've been trying to contemplate what Apple will be doing with the 13" MBP. A couple of background points:
- 13.3" MBA was introduced in 2008
- 13.3" MBP was introduced in 2009
- 13.3" MBA redesigned in 2010
- According to the Steve Jobs Biography, Apple has designs/models for several generation down the road in their lab and most likely has a game plan for what they want to do with their products for the next couple of years
- designing/introducing a new product requires $$$ for manufacturing and other stuff
- Steve Jobs said that the MBA was the future of the notebook
- 13.3" MBP is the best selling notebook for Apple
Ok, so now I'm thinking, if Apple produced the 13" MBA first with the vision that it would be the future of the notebook, then why would they decide to add the 13" MBP over a full year later, which would require new costs for designing it and new manufacturing processes among other things, only to kill it off a mere 3 years later?
It'd be one thing if the 13" MBP came first, then the 13" MBA was released after and eventually replaced the 13" MBP similar to how the iPod Nano came to replace the iPod Mini, but this would be 13" MBA first, then 13" MBP, then kill the 13" MBP, and continue with 13" MBA 😕
If Apple only added the 13" MBP because they thought the 13" MBA wasn't powerful enough at that point to really tap into 13" notebook market, then it would only make sense to kill off the 13" MBP once the MBA is powerful enough, performance wise, to be seen by Apple as something that could penetrate the 13" notebook market as much as the 13" MBP already does. That, though, is largely dependent on Intel since that's where the MBA's performance comes from (CPU + integrated GPU) but you would think Apple would have a decent idea when that would be around. Back in 2009, when they introduced the 13" MBP, Apple would have known, or at least an idea of whether intel's processors would have been powerful enough by 2012 to replace the 13" MBP with a 13" MBA, obviously not as powerful as the MBP, but powerful/capable enough so that it could capture a good portion of the 13" consumer pool. And if they thought that they would be powerful enough in the Air by 2012 (Ivy Bridge) to displace the 13" MBP, why would they have wasted all that money making the 13" MBP for 3 years only.
Also, i'm writing this while finishing a college essay at 4am so I could be delirious at this point, but I think what I wrote made sense
products do refresh zillions of times
it is most impossible that a product never or rarely updates than often does
who says it wont happen gotta have some buried reasons to make such claims
ipads get refreshed, iphone get refreshed, ipods mutate constantly, imacs and mbp and mba look the same but get yearly updates
why it shouldnt imminently happen, it's a mistery we should ask Einstein to solve
it is most impossible that a product never or rarely updates than often does
who says it wont happen gotta have some buried reasons to make such claims
ipads get refreshed, iphone get refreshed, ipods mutate constantly, imacs and mbp and mba look the same but get yearly updates
why it shouldnt imminently happen, it's a mistery we should ask Einstein to solve
cmChimera
macrumors 601
They may want a 15" screen, and they may want OS X. Apple doesn't give them any other option than a 15" MacBook pro. And let's not pretend that a lot of our needs could be accomplished by a cheaper computer. I could buy a 15" Windows pc that could do most everything my MBP does. Am I going to? Absolutely not.
If we're two weeks away from the new Macbook Pro's I would of thought there'd be much more rumours.
theSeb
macrumors 604
No, of course you're right, but I was just pointing out that hopefully it's an increased resolution and not the MBA's exact panel.
----------
The colour reproduction is definitely better on the MBP screen, but for me the biggest issue is the contrast. The MBA screen looks a bit washed out and text does not look as sharp. It's especially difficult to get the perfect viewing angle, in my opinion.
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The rumours are normally so far off that I simply just ignore them. If you recall last year for example there were rumours of the new MBA coming next week for about two months before it actually came out. There have been some rumours of the new MBP and specifically about the 15" model recently. Logically we can assume that since IVY Bridge is now around the corner we can expect the refresh to happen soon.
Frankied22
macrumors 68000
It's the weekend. Barely any rumors or news happens over the weekend. I'm guessing this week we will see more rumors on the new MacBook pros.
I agree with you. There are few rumors.
Tipically we start to hear many rumors, but this time we hear almost nothing.
There are (at least I didn't see) any rumors regarding where the event should take place.
Frankied22
macrumors 68000
Maybe there won't be an event because maybe there is not a redesign. The rumored 15" MBA might just be that: a 15" MBA that will be released with the new MBAs in the summer alongside Mountain Lion. For all we know the MBPs just get an overnight refresh with no redesign. Store goes down. Store comes up. New MBPs. That doesn't meant the SuperDrive still won't be axed. They removed the SuperDrive from the Mac mini las year and there was no press event for that. It just got refreshed on the site and there it was, no SuperDrive. Keeping the same form factor and removing the SuperDrive would allow for more room to add SSD, beefed graphics card, etc. If they axedthe SuperDrive from the Mac mini, which is used by millions essentially for a media hub, why would they hesitate to kill it off on a laptop?
I'm sure this week we will see many more rumors referring to the new MBPs. My guess is we are 2-3 weeks away.
Winter Charm
macrumors 6502a
My Wish List:
Here's what I want to see:
Retina Display
No ODD, but Beefier graphics... in the 13", too...
Samsung SSD's as a standard (because they play nice with MacBooks and they are reasonably fast. If they use the 830 SSDs, it would be awesome)
Maybe an external redesign... but I'd much rather see the notebook become far more powerful
Better battery - If Apple uses blade style SSD's where the ODD used to be, and fills in the extra space with cooling and a better GPU, the entire palm rest area becomes empty, allowing the battery to expand 🙂 So... 10 hours of battery life may become possible 😀
Hopefully an update will come as soon as Ivy Bridge is released.
Here's what I want to see:
Retina Display
No ODD, but Beefier graphics... in the 13", too...
Samsung SSD's as a standard (because they play nice with MacBooks and they are reasonably fast. If they use the 830 SSDs, it would be awesome)
Maybe an external redesign... but I'd much rather see the notebook become far more powerful
Better battery - If Apple uses blade style SSD's where the ODD used to be, and fills in the extra space with cooling and a better GPU, the entire palm rest area becomes empty, allowing the battery to expand 🙂 So... 10 hours of battery life may become possible 😀
Hopefully an update will come as soon as Ivy Bridge is released.
deaglecat
macrumors 6502a
Here's what I want to see:
Retina Display
No ODD, but Beefier graphics... in the 13", too...
Samsung SSD's as a standard (because they play nice with MacBooks and they are reasonably fast. If they use the 830 SSDs, it would be awesome)
Maybe an external redesign... but I'd much rather see the notebook become far more powerful
Better battery - If Apple uses blade style SSD's where the ODD used to be, and fills in the extra space with cooling and a better GPU, the entire palm rest area becomes empty, allowing the battery to expand 🙂 So... 10 hours of battery life may become possible 😀
Hopefully an update will come as soon as Ivy Bridge is released.
Beefier graphics come with Ivybridge as standard.
With the migration of Macbook pro to SSD, the Airs already having Flash (which is pretty similar) and the retiring of the Superdrives... and the coalescence to Thunderbolt to break out the I/O... I am not seeing what the differentiation between a 13" MBP and a 13" Air will actually be.
Hence the 13" MBP future is questionable.
Nostromo
macrumors 65816
Interesting that there are no rumors about a standard SSD plus a second conventional hard disc for mass storage instead of the drive bay.
While there were rumors about the ditching of the optical drive, there was no hint what would be in its place.
An MBA flat design would be impossible by maintaining computing power and a dedicated graphic chip without a melt-down.
So, it's pretty much open - or there will be no radical design change after all.
While there were rumors about the ditching of the optical drive, there was no hint what would be in its place.
An MBA flat design would be impossible by maintaining computing power and a dedicated graphic chip without a melt-down.
So, it's pretty much open - or there will be no radical design change after all.