Statistically, it seems to matter.
Nobody else seems to be getting the same advantage.
http://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2015/01/23/deflated-patriots-statistically-impossible-fumble-record/
-t
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2014-15 NFL season thread
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Statistically, it seems to matter.
Nobody else seems to be getting the same advantage.
http://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2015/01/23/deflated-patriots-statistically-impossible-fumble-record/
-t
Since I don't work for an NFL team, nor do I have a vested interest, I'm not doing anything.
Why?
Where's the evidence? Can anyone, anywhere provide some evidence that the Patriots tampered with balls after referee inspection? The NFL has provided none except to say the Patriots balls were below spec and that they're investigating the matter. And everyone has rushed to judgment, despite the Patriots pretty clearly and thoroughly saying that they did nothing untoward and providing a set of facts to support their assertion - which they challenged others to replicate.
It illuminates the fact that people will judge these things with feelings and not facts.
And all the NFL QBs are going to be really pissed next year.
Also, lest we forget: there is a coach in the Super Bowl this year who has been stripped of a championship for cheating. Hint: it ain't Belichick.
It illuminates the fact that people will judge these things with feelings and not facts.
And all the NFL QBs are going to be really pissed next year.
Also, lest we forget: there is a coach in the Super Bowl this year who has been stripped of a championship for cheating. Hint: it ain't Belichick.
Well to be fair after they were caught cheating they haven't won a Super Bowl. :ducks:
Snip :
11 of 12 balls were under inflated .
That is defacto "evidence".
Enough "evidence" that is causing the NFL to investigate.
As far as USC. That's college football. They run under a different set of rules.
The allegations centered on former Trojan star Reggie Bush. Bush was found to have accepted several improper gifts, including the use of a San Diego area home for members of his family. It was reported that USC might appeal the sanctions.[52] These sanctions have been criticized by some NCAA football writers,[54][55][56][57][58] including ESPN’s Ted Miller, who wrote, “It's become an accepted fact among informed college football observers that the NCAA sanctions against USC were a travesty of justice, and the NCAA’s refusal to revisit that travesty are a massive act of cowardice on the part of the organization.”[59]
USC and Pete Carroll were NEVER accused of cheating during a football game.
Belichick and the Patriots have been accused of cheating during a football game THREE times.
11 of 12 balls were under inflated .
That is defacto "evidence".
Enough "evidence" that is causing the NFL to investigate.
As far as USC. That's college football. They run under a different set of rules.
The allegations centered on former Trojan star Reggie Bush. Bush was found to have accepted several improper gifts, including the use of a San Diego area home for members of his family. It was reported that USC might appeal the sanctions.[52] These sanctions have been criticized by some NCAA football writers,[54][55][56][57][58] including ESPN’s Ted Miller, who wrote, “It's become an accepted fact among informed college football observers that the NCAA sanctions against USC were a travesty of justice, and the NCAA’s refusal to revisit that travesty are a massive act of cowardice on the part of the organization.”[59]
USC and Pete Carroll were NEVER accused of cheating during a football game.
Belichick and the Patriots have been accused of cheating during a football game THREE times.
Evidence of what, though? There's evidence of under inflated footballs. You're making the leap that under inflated footballs = Patriots tampering. At minimum, that theory has a truckload of problems of assumption. Which is why there is an investigation.
Let's see what comes out when the NFL finishes it's investigation. I would bet almost anything that they find no evidence of the Patriots tampering with footballs.
Peace said:
LOL, talk about justifying. Football is football is football. Breaking the rules to try and gain an advantage is what you seem to be crusading against. And you try to call Patriots fans out for justifying? The hypocrisy is tremendous. And I guess if we don't find a Seahawks player with a needle sticking out of his arm mid-game, it's not cheating?
Three times? I'm sorry, I'd love to see your work on that one.
Glass houses.
So it's been established that most of the balls were underinflated. But the big jump is to instantly point a finger at the two people who could best help the Patriots win the Super Bowl, Brady and Belichick.
Like QOS said, let's see what the NFL investigation finds. I doubt there will be so many people found guilty that it will send a nearly a whole team home back to Boston until next season. Again if found with tampering, just send those few, or one person back to Boston and let's move on with the Super Bowl.
The NFL made a big deal but in order to save face they have to act. Now if they act out of proportion with the allegations and let's say disqualify the whole team as suggested by CNN, then that's an unfair attack on the Patriots.
My hope is that somebody minor on the Patriots (back up QB, coaching assistant, or ball boy) fesses up and the evidence shows that's the case. I say put people on lie detectors and get to the bottom of this. A ball deflating thing smacks of inexperience and the long range thinkers like Brady or Belichick just won't deflate the balls. Do you think they think it's worth it to basically destroy fifteen years of a great dynasty? Do you think they want to destroy the dynasty of their football team in a city that has well respected teams in basketball, hockey, and baseball? Do the Pats want to look like a cheating NYY A-Rod? I certainly don't think so.
I certainly hope that nobody key is guilty and that the Pats can still send Seattle home with a little humility. I may feel sorry for the Seahawks coach and especially Russell Wilson if the Pats win but I will be glad if the Patriots win in a fair and square game.
To cement a real win in the record books without an asterisk, Belichick should insist beforehand that the refs regularly check the ball which can't be too hard to do. The Pats and Belichick need to get their name cleared first and then beat Seattle.
Like QOS said, let's see what the NFL investigation finds. I doubt there will be so many people found guilty that it will send a nearly a whole team home back to Boston until next season. Again if found with tampering, just send those few, or one person back to Boston and let's move on with the Super Bowl.
The NFL made a big deal but in order to save face they have to act. Now if they act out of proportion with the allegations and let's say disqualify the whole team as suggested by CNN, then that's an unfair attack on the Patriots.
My hope is that somebody minor on the Patriots (back up QB, coaching assistant, or ball boy) fesses up and the evidence shows that's the case. I say put people on lie detectors and get to the bottom of this. A ball deflating thing smacks of inexperience and the long range thinkers like Brady or Belichick just won't deflate the balls. Do you think they think it's worth it to basically destroy fifteen years of a great dynasty? Do you think they want to destroy the dynasty of their football team in a city that has well respected teams in basketball, hockey, and baseball? Do the Pats want to look like a cheating NYY A-Rod? I certainly don't think so.
I certainly hope that nobody key is guilty and that the Pats can still send Seattle home with a little humility. I may feel sorry for the Seahawks coach and especially Russell Wilson if the Pats win but I will be glad if the Patriots win in a fair and square game.
To cement a real win in the record books without an asterisk, Belichick should insist beforehand that the refs regularly check the ball which can't be too hard to do. The Pats and Belichick need to get their name cleared first and then beat Seattle.
http://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2015/01/23/deflated-patriots-statistically-impossible-fumble-record/
I'm sure the 1 in 16,233 chance is purely coincidental
-t
That's cherry picking.
Stats are what I did in grad school. The article, to an untrained person, make sound like it makes sense.
But:
1) If the Patriots are statistical outliers by such a huge margin in their lack of fumbles, then why the Super Bowl wins before 2007 when they weren't exceptional in that key area?
2) Why is there a drought of Super Bowls after the 2004 season if they don't fumble that much?
3) Then what are the odds of the Patriots having this super advantage of hanging onto the ball and losing twice to the nearly hapless New York Giants?
4) How many refs is that touching the balls of the Patriots and every team they played against since 2007 without any of them noticing? This has to be the most damning evidence against those who are sure the Patriots cheated and underinflated footballs.
If you think their lack of fumbles is a needle in the haystack in probability, what about the above questions, especially #4? Hmm, maybe Belichick and Brady are SO rich that they paid off all the refs in all games since the beginning of the 2007 season. What kind of odds would that constitute?
Yes, I am rooting for the Pats over the Seahawks, but this so-called statistical article is skewed against the Pats from the get go cherry picking one aspect and making a conclusion from a very narrow point of view. Very unlikely things happen in sports all the time that are much more astonishing than a team who is stingy with the football.
Take the SF Giants and their "unlikely" run of 3 World Series who lost their 2010 WS MVP for 2012 WS run, lost their two time Cy Young winner as a starter in 2012, and were without Cain, Scutaro, and Pagan (key players) in their 2014 WS run,
or four WS with the NYY core four,
or the one in a million Yogi Berra Yankees:
http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/100058596/baseball-dynasties-ranking-giants-yankees
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A YouTube video by HeadSmart Labs proved that it was possible for a Wilson official NFL football to lose enough air pressure to drop it below the 12.5 PSI minimum required by the NFL:
What we need is much more rigorous testing, including:
1. Inflate the footballs, twelve to 13.5 PSI and twelve to 12.5 PSI, in a 75 °F. room.
2. Wait 2 hours 15 minutes, then put all 24 footballs in a climate control chamber simulating the temperature, humidity and barometric pressure of Foxborough, MA at 1800 hours EST on 17 January 2015.
3. Adjust temperature, humidity and barometric pressure in chamber over time to match the weather changes during the delay in kickoff time (remember, the AFC Championship Game kickoff time was delayed due to the NFC Championship Game going into overtime).
4. Adjust temperature, humidity and barometric pressure in chamber over time to match the weather changes from kickoff to the end of the first half.
Why twelve footballs at 13.5 PSI and twelve footballs at 12.5 PSI? This is because Colts QB Andrew Luck likes the football pumped up to 13.5 PSI, while Patriots QB Tom Brady likes the football pumped up to 12.5 PSI.
My guess is that after this test, the footballs pumped up to 13.5 PSI will be barely in spec, while the footballs pumped up to 12.5 PSI will be out of spec. And due to the physical specs of the football, it's possible that once exposed to the colder air and high humidity of the conditions at Foxborough, MA during the time of the the AFC Championship Game, the Wilson football may experience a lot more air pressure loss than even the football manufacturer anticipated.
What we need is much more rigorous testing, including:
1. Inflate the footballs, twelve to 13.5 PSI and twelve to 12.5 PSI, in a 75 °F. room.
2. Wait 2 hours 15 minutes, then put all 24 footballs in a climate control chamber simulating the temperature, humidity and barometric pressure of Foxborough, MA at 1800 hours EST on 17 January 2015.
3. Adjust temperature, humidity and barometric pressure in chamber over time to match the weather changes during the delay in kickoff time (remember, the AFC Championship Game kickoff time was delayed due to the NFC Championship Game going into overtime).
4. Adjust temperature, humidity and barometric pressure in chamber over time to match the weather changes from kickoff to the end of the first half.
Why twelve footballs at 13.5 PSI and twelve footballs at 12.5 PSI? This is because Colts QB Andrew Luck likes the football pumped up to 13.5 PSI, while Patriots QB Tom Brady likes the football pumped up to 12.5 PSI.
My guess is that after this test, the footballs pumped up to 13.5 PSI will be barely in spec, while the footballs pumped up to 12.5 PSI will be out of spec. And due to the physical specs of the football, it's possible that once exposed to the colder air and high humidity of the conditions at Foxborough, MA during the time of the the AFC Championship Game, the Wilson football may experience a lot more air pressure loss than even the football manufacturer anticipated.
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Lets just stir the pot some more.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...xplanation-on-inflation-raises-new-questions/
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...xplanation-on-inflation-raises-new-questions/
yes.
of course not.
but i'd wager all teams do it and don't get caught. and this particular issue doesn't mean squat. especially if QB's are allowed to wear tack gloves anyway.
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exactly.
much ado about nothing.
SEA over NE by 21.
Balls will all be same psi.
And from all the hub-bub I can only assume that most of you didn't see the game so let me fill ya in: The NFL could have spotted IND 14 points and they still would have lost.
deflated balls don't add that much of an edge. you still have to catch, block,run, and tackle. The Colts did less of all that.
Do you want all the teams to play by the rules? yes, of course. but yer all carrying on about this and yer not gonna be happy with the result. nobody will get fired and for the $ amount these folks make, the fines that get levied aren't gonna make a dent. and one way or another the team is going to pay them anyway.
One thing is for sure, I'm getting tired of hearing about this.
I predict the independent investigator will not come up with any thing different then the NFL did when they conducted 40+ interviews.
I also believe nothing is going to happen regardless of findings until after the Super Bowl. Regardless of people think of the Patriots, Belicheck, Brady. They're going to the Super Bowl and the NFL will do what it can to make this a successful celebration.
I also think the Patriots won't be successful against the Seahawks. Its hard enough to get to the Super Bowl, its harder to win and you need to be razor sharp with your game and preparation. This has been a huge distraction for the franchise and the NFL. The Seahawks don't have such distractions, and they're a really good team. I'd say the Patriots would have had a tough time beating them before this issue, now it makes it even harder.
I predict the independent investigator will not come up with any thing different then the NFL did when they conducted 40+ interviews.
I also believe nothing is going to happen regardless of findings until after the Super Bowl. Regardless of people think of the Patriots, Belicheck, Brady. They're going to the Super Bowl and the NFL will do what it can to make this a successful celebration.
I also think the Patriots won't be successful against the Seahawks. Its hard enough to get to the Super Bowl, its harder to win and you need to be razor sharp with your game and preparation. This has been a huge distraction for the franchise and the NFL. The Seahawks don't have such distractions, and they're a really good team. I'd say the Patriots would have had a tough time beating them before this issue, now it makes it even harder.
In the end, if an independent test can repeat what HeadSmart Labs showed in that YouTube video I posted, then case closed. The NFL league offices have a LOT of explaining to do, the mass media have egg on their faces, and even Wilson Sporting Goods Company may have to redesign the football to reduce this specific short-term air pressure loss.
OMG. This has been wildly overblown.
Simple solution: the NFL announces that it will maintain custody and control of all game balls and be solely responsible for their condition and compliance to standards.
But has Nye actually tested the Wilson football's inflation levels with actual temperature variations like HeadSmart Labs actually bothered to do? In fact, I am opening asking Jamie Hyneman and Adam Savage of MythBusters fame to duplicate my suggested test--one that could be done at the NASA Ames Research Center. If the test at NASA Ames matches what HeadSmart Labs achieved, it's officially case closed and a lot of people have egg on their faces.
If the Pats players/coaches were in on this and they are found guilty, they probably won't be punished much after this news cycle dies down. If the NFL was 100% percent wrong, people won't care in a couple of months.
But this is a distraction that may make a few Pats stronger on Sunday but will probably downgrade most of the team.
If Seattle is the same team that took out the strongest offense in the history of football (Denver with most TDs, yards, third down conversions in a regular season), then the Pats stand little chance. But the great unknown here is the Seahawks.
Did their early failure in the season indicate that they are not the same hard hitting defense of last year? If all players on Pats go to work Sunday and nobody is banned, it could be a close game.
Somebody here said 21 point rout of Pats but they may be thinking of the 2013-14 Seahawks D, not the current '14-'15 squad we have right this second. While probably a Seahawks win, it will by less than a touchdown whether the game is high scoring or low scoring on both sides. But I would like to see a one point win with a pass over the head of Richard Sherman.
But has Nye actually tested the Wilson football's inflation levels with actual temperature variations like HeadSmart Labs actually bothered to do? In fact, I am opening asking Jamie Hyneman and Adam Savage of MythBusters fame to duplicate my suggested test--one that could be done at the NASA Ames Research Center. If the test at NASA Ames matches what HeadSmart Labs achieved, it's officially case closed and a lot of people have egg on their faces.
I am guessing when this started the refs checked the footballs on Indy's sideline also. At least I HOPE they did.
This means for that theory to be true both teams would have had deflated footballs.
Oh yeah? Well, we are not done talking about the balls. Seattle RB fined $20k for checking his coinpurse after scoring on the Packers. Story says the team will face a 15-yard penalty if he cannot keep his hands outta there.
The NFL didn't seem to mind enough not to offer up an officially licensed picture of the gesture on their website for $150. The Marshawn Lynch stuff is a joke. Threatening to penalize the Seahawks in yardage if he does it? Absurd.
The NFL Sells A Photo Of Marshawn Lynch's "Obscene" Gesture For $150
But please guys, tell me again how the NFL is a competent, well-run organization capable of no follies and completely trustworthy. :eyeroll: