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ralphthemagi

macrumors member
Mar 9, 2012
87
59
Are we talking about the 2016 model or the 2017 one?

It happens on both. 2016 and 2017, 13" and 15". It tends to be isolated to the left side of the keyboard and the upper right because the heat makes it more obvious.

The butterfly mechanism for the keys is incredibly small, and the tolerances are virtually impossible to maintain across the entire keyboard to create "perfect" keys. I've yet to see a single new MacBook Pro that DOESN'T have this issue on at least one key.

The good news is that, in almost all cases (and I tend to actually think it is all cases, it's just a matter of time) the issue will eventually resolve itself. The mechanical parts wear enough where they stop sticking and thus clicking. It's worse when the machine is warm because the keys expand a little, which can cause sticking. Fortunately, they are springy enough that the stick doesn't actually impact the feel or function, it just creates a strange sound.

It's silly to return a machine over this issue. After a few months, if you actually use it instead of look at it, it will go away. The only way to fix the issue completely is probably to redesign the mechanism or use different, softer, materials.
 

rawweb

macrumors 65816
Aug 7, 2015
1,115
924
It happens on both. 2016 and 2017, 13" and 15". It tends to be isolated to the left side of the keyboard and the upper right because the heat makes it more obvious.

The butterfly mechanism for the keys is incredibly small, and the tolerances are virtually impossible to maintain across the entire keyboard to create "perfect" keys. I've yet to see a single new MacBook Pro that DOESN'T have this issue on at least one key.

The good news is that, in almost all cases (and I tend to actually think it is all cases, it's just a matter of time) the issue will eventually resolve itself. The mechanical parts wear enough where they stop sticking and thus clicking. It's worse when the machine is warm because the keys expand a little, which can cause sticking. Fortunately, they are springy enough that the stick doesn't actually impact the feel or function, it just creates a strange sound.

It's silly to return a machine over this issue. After a few months, if you actually use it instead of look at it, it will go away. The only way to fix the issue completely is probably to redesign the mechanism or use different, softer, materials.

My issue started with 1 key making noise back in February and slowly spread to 9 or 10 keys plus a key that didn't register sometimes. It got worse over time, not better. I've heard very few reports of the problem just 'going away'. Like it or not, I think there is a serious design issue here.

Apple just replaced my 2016 defective keyboard (top case) with what looks like a 2017 top case (identified by different symbols on option+command). This seems unusual, IMO. o_O
 

ralphthemagi

macrumors member
Mar 9, 2012
87
59
My issue started with 1 key making noise back in February and slowly spread to 9 or 10 keys plus a key that didn't register sometimes. It got worse over time, not better. I've heard very few reports of the problem just 'going away'. Like it or not, I think there is a serious design issue here.

Apple just replaced my 2016 defective keyboard (top case) with what looks like a 2017 top case (identified by different symbols on option+command). This seems unusual, IMO. o_O

You don't hear those reports because they go away. People don't report non-issues.

There is a design issue, it has to do with the materials used and the tight tolerances. They keys expand and then stick. When you take the keyboard apart it's very obvious.

To cause them not to register is a different issue entirely. They are springy enough that the clicking/sticking shouldn't matter.

Pretty cool they replaced your whole top case though. Unless the materials have changed though, you will likely experience the same thing at some point. It will eventually go away. Apply enough heat to any key and it will eventually start to stick.

Because of the insane tolerances that Apple works with the MacBook's actually make all sorts of weird noises if you listen for them. They "crack" from time to time as the components heat up and expand and cool—just like a window. As long as your using aluminum and hard plastics that's just the reality of it.

If enough people complain maybe they'll make them out of a softer material and do a recall. Doubt it though. I don't think most people notice or care.
 
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PBz

macrumors 68030
Nov 3, 2005
2,607
1,540
SoCal
It got worse for me. Started as keys not ‘rebounding’ (some refer to as sticky) & eventually became randomly non-responsive. One way to test is to turn off autocorrect and type sentences with words with double letters in them. If you have the issue keys like T will register once instead of twice as You hit the key twice but it misses second rapid tap. I’ve done this comparison with Butterfly, 2015 keyboard, Magic Keyboard & K811. The double tap is much worse on Butterfly for me.
 

itsasin

macrumors member
Jul 25, 2017
36
5
You don't hear those reports because they go away. People don't report non-issues.

There is a design issue, it has to do with the materials used and the tight tolerances. They keys expand and then stick. When you take the keyboard apart it's very obvious.

To cause them not to register is a different issue entirely. They are springy enough that the clicking/sticking shouldn't matter.

Pretty cool they replaced your whole top case though. Unless the materials have changed though, you will likely experience the same thing at some point. It will eventually go away. Apply enough heat to any key and it will eventually start to stick.

Because of the insane tolerances that Apple works with the MacBook's actually make all sorts of weird noises if you listen for them. They "crack" from time to time as the components heat up and expand and cool—just like a window. As long as your using aluminum and hard plastics that's just the reality of it.

If enough people complain maybe they'll make them out of a softer material and do a recall. Doubt it though. I don't think most people notice or care.
First I got my 15" MacBook Pro (2016) repaired because of several different keyboard issues including stuck keys, sticky keys, unresponsive keys... They only got worse over the several months I had been using the device. My top case got replaced and I received the 2017 version keyboard, or at least, it had the new symbols. Worked basically perfectly, no issues whatsoever that I could notice.

However then I got a creaking noise every time the machine was under load. Reseller store replaced every single component beside the one that was the actual issue - the display. They ****ed up my trackpad doing this, which now does not work in one area. Called Apple, they said they were aware of that second issue and basically everything would have been solved if the reseller repair guys would have simply replaced the display (as I even told them since I suspected it to be the issue). Had to go and get it repaired again. Screen got repaired. Got it back. Trackpad still broken. I call Apple again, and I sent the guy I corresponded with a video about the trackpad. He immediately said that a lot of things went wrong repairing the device that should not have gone wrong (note: this is not an actual Apple store, just an authorized reseller), even saying that because of the unnecessary repairs, I ended up with a device that was still faulty in a way.

Basically at that point I was immediately offered a new 2017 replacement unit from Apple directly, so no messing around with that other store anymore and having to return it minutes after I just went to get it. So unfortunate that something went wrong regarding the external shipping company and Apple is kind of stuck getting my old device back, but Apple seems to be doing anything in order to fix it, but it's just out of their hands at this point. Still, I am going to be so happy when I finally get rid of this 2016 machine with nothing but issues, over and over again. The new 2017 unit I will be receiving can only be an improvement in this case.
 

ralphthemagi

macrumors member
Mar 9, 2012
87
59
Crazy.

I'm kind of amazed that people go through all this trouble to try and find a "flawless" machine that may, in all likelihood, exhibit the same issues at some point. It's not a diamond. The issues are intermittent because they literally have to do with the materials used. Short of a redesign there is no way to guarantee that every key clicks the same for the lifetime of the keyboard of that the display or chassis never creaks.

If you return the machine every time you hear one of the keys make a slightly different noise you will be returning the machine every few months for the rest of its useful life. Obviously if the keys are sticking such that it impairs function, there's a problem. But otherwise it's just worth considering that in three years it will be obsolete and in five it will be worthless. Trying to get a museum piece is an exercise in futility.
 

itsasin

macrumors member
Jul 25, 2017
36
5
Crazy.

I'm kind of amazed that people go through all this trouble to try and find a "flawless" machine that may, in all likelihood, exhibit the same issues at some point. It's not a diamond. The issues are intermittent because they literally have to do with the materials used. Short of a redesign there is no way to guarantee that every key clicks the same for the lifetime of the keyboard of that the display or chassis never creaks.

If you return the machine every time you hear one of the keys make a slightly different noise you will be returning the machine every few months for the rest of its useful life. Obviously if the keys are sticking such that it impairs function, there's a problem. But otherwise it's just worth considering that in three years it will be obsolete and in five it will be worthless. Trying to get a museum piece is an exercise in futility.
Well I think it's more about keys literally not working or working incorrect causing you to be unable to properly type anymore, keys that get so stuck that you cannot push them anymore, and so on. A lot of people experience these things on top of the high-pitches noises.

And about the creaking issue, an Apple senior advisor from the technical support told me that they are aware of this particular issue, and that the way to solve it is by replacing the display. My display got replaced and now the issue is completely gone. Of course the machine will often creak because of the materials, but the noise that it makes when the MacBook Pro is under a heavier load is not just a material issue but an actual defect.

I don't how about other people, but when I spend € 2700 on a laptop, I am certainly going to complain when I get it back from a repair and in my case an area of the trackpad is not even working anymore at all. It simply does not register any clicks anymore. I don't think issues like that and like most many people on here have are about nitpicking. I really did not expect so many defects when I bought it so I am truly disappointed, but now very happy to see that I will at least get a shot at receiving a less faulty unit this time.
 

achal1012

macrumors newbie
Dec 29, 2016
13
7
Third time is a charm! I sent my macbook pro 13 ntb to get it fixed and they changed keyboard, battery and screen and it seems like it has fixed the clicking sound issue and it feels solid. I have tried taking computer to 75 C and all the keys sounded normal :D
 

Mortis360

macrumors regular
Sep 6, 2013
151
88
Norway
I have had mine in for the second time due to double keypresses, and this time around it seems like I have got a 2017 top case with the new layout, now its just about to see how it holds up since I just got it back on friday.
 

Blizzardman

macrumors regular
Apr 7, 2010
229
338
Gilbert, Arizona
Has anyone had luck on a fix for the keys in the middle of the keyboard having that "hollow" sound when typing? I am bringing my laptop in for a THIRD time having noisy keys and would like them to also take a look at fixing the hollowness in the middle.
 

nameste

macrumors 6502
Mar 8, 2016
335
169
I read apple did this intentionally but my new 2017 mbp caps lock doesn't seem to work sometimes or this is the way it must be?
 
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PBG4 Dude

macrumors 68040
Jul 6, 2007
3,957
3,968
There is a slight built in delay on activating the caps lock key. In the past, people have remapped keys (like ESC) to caps lock and have noted that it requires a longer time being pushed than other keys. That longer amount of time is measured in milliseconds, but it is still noticeable.
 
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ZapNZs

macrumors 68020
Jan 23, 2017
2,310
1,158
I read apple did this intentionally but my new 2017 mbp caps lock doesn't seem to work sometimes or this is the way it must be?

Yes, that is normal.

When you strike the caps lock like that on the butterfly mechanism, it doesn't engage. This is presumably a design to avoid accidentally engaging the caps lock while speed typing.

For that matter, I just tried this on the pre-2016 retina and Uni MBPs, and, when you strike the caps lock key like that, it also doesn't engage.

This helps reDUCE THE FREQUENCY OF SENTENCES THAT THEN END IN RANDOM CAPITAL LETTERS TO MAKE IT SEEM AS IF I AM YELLING :p
 

proudnixon

macrumors newbie
Oct 10, 2017
4
1
So, guys with 2017 keyboards and macbooks, how do you find the new keyboard? Have you used it under load when it's hot? Does it worth changing the keyboard to the 2017th model? Is it really better? Or should I better just return the macbook and take a refund?
 

eddjedi

macrumors 6502a
Sep 7, 2011
610
753
Ha I never knew this was deliberate, I just thought the caps lock key on every Mac I'd ever owned was unresponsive!
 

ZapNZs

macrumors 68020
Jan 23, 2017
2,310
1,158
So, guys with 2017 keyboards and macbooks, how do you find the new keyboard? Have you used it under load when it's hot? Does it worth changing the keyboard to the 2017th model? Is it really better? Or should I better just return the macbook and take a refund?

Intentionally pegging the CPU to full yes-load on quite a few different display models, both when brand new and after being on display for several weeks (after a gazillion people typed on them) - the 2017 models tested did not have that incredibly annoying and productivity-harming high-pitched popping sound that some 2016 owners had to deal with. Further, I have observed a drastic reduction in the number of 2017 owners coming in for service experiencing keyboard issues compared to the 2016 owners. I do believe improvements to the 2017 keyboard were made - if it were me, I would enjoy the 2017 and purchase AppleCare+ should keyboard longevity problems arise.

(for anyone actively experiencing the issue, I sincerely hope Apple comes through and ameliorates your situation, because it is one of the most annoying sounds I have ever heard a computer make, and it is something you should not have to put up with.)
 
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Blizzardman

macrumors regular
Apr 7, 2010
229
338
Gilbert, Arizona
I had my high end 2016 machine that was hampered with all the keyboard/other issues replaced with a high end 2017 model.

I can definitely tell a difference while typing on the keyboard and also notice this computer runs consistently warmer than my 2016 model did (according to iStats menu bar at least). When the temperature got around 130 degrees on my 2016 I would hear the key popping sound and i've gotten as high as 150+ on my new machine and have not heard any noises. I also had the issue where my screen hinge would creak when opening my 2016 model and have not had that on the 2017.
 

emiliano_

macrumors newbie
Jan 18, 2017
18
2
I had my high end 2016 machine that was hampered with all the keyboard/other issues replaced with a high end 2017 model.

I can definitely tell a difference while typing on the keyboard and also notice this computer runs consistently warmer than my 2016 model did (according to iStats menu bar at least). When the temperature got around 130 degrees on my 2016 I would hear the key popping sound and i've gotten as high as 150+ on my new machine and have not heard any noises. I also had the issue where my screen hinge would creak when opening my 2016 model and have not had that on the 2017.

What did you tell them to replace your 2016 macbook with a 2017 model?
 

0110076

Cancelled
Sep 4, 2016
35
30
3 months in.. 3/2? I lost count. I left my new MacBook Pro for repair more than 3 months ago at the store.

It kept coming back with keyboard issues and eventually I gave up and asked for a refund. That was more than 2 months ago. Still no refund and still no MacBook Pro.

I even considered sending a letter explaining them to keep the money and the MacBook Pro in the hopes of making my point across.

A 3700€ MacBook Pro...
 

TripleMoxy

macrumors regular
Jul 19, 2012
219
64
UK
3 months in.. 3/2? I lost count. I left my new MacBook Pro for repair more than 3 months ago at the store.

It kept coming back with keyboard issues and eventually I gave up and asked for a refund. That was more than 2 months ago. Still no refund and still no MacBook Pro.

I even considered sending a letter explaining them to keep the money and the MacBook Pro in the hopes of making my point across.

A 3700€ MacBook Pro...

That’s appalling. I don’t understand why they’ve kept it for so long. What do they say to you when you ask for a progress report?
 

0110076

Cancelled
Sep 4, 2016
35
30
That’s appalling. I don’t understand why they’ve kept it for so long. What do they say to you when you ask for a progress report?

Absolutely nothing that would help. Just that they don’t have news for me and that they’re working on it.

It’s easily the most stressing experience I ever had with a purchaese.

Every time I think about this or try to put pressure on them to resolve this I get so pissed of and emotionally drained..

I really don’t understand how is it possible that it got to this...
 
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TripleMoxy

macrumors regular
Jul 19, 2012
219
64
UK
Absolutely nothing that would help. Just that they don’t have news for me and that they’re working on it.

It’s easily the most stressing experience I ever had with a purchaese.

Every time I think about this or try to put pressure on them to resolve this I get so pissed of and emotionally drained..

I really don’t understand how is it possible that it got to this...

That’s unacceptable. I can imagine how you feel.

Have you looked at the consumer legislation for your country and writing a formal letter to Apple quoting the relevant provisions? Such legislation can detail what is reasonable in terms of allowing the vendor an opportunity to repair.

It has to be unreasonable to keep a laptop in repairs for 2 to 3 months when that laptop only remains state-of-the-art for 12 months.

Apologies if I’m just repeating something you’ve already tried.

I feel that the Apple is no longer the company it used to be.
 

parajba

macrumors 6502
Apr 19, 2008
448
222
That’s unacceptable. I can imagine how you feel.

Have you looked at the consumer legislation for your country and writing a formal letter to Apple quoting the relevant provisions? Such legislation can detail what is reasonable in terms of allowing the vendor an opportunity to repair.

It has to be unreasonable to keep a laptop in repairs for 2 to 3 months when that laptop only remains state-of-the-art for 12 months.

Apologies if I’m just repeating something you’ve already tried.

I feel that the Apple is no longer the company it used to be.

Regardless of what your country legislation might be, I would call the US customer care pronto. And threaten to plaster the social media with this. Unacceptable!
 

Newtons Apple

Suspended
Mar 12, 2014
22,757
15,246
Jacksonville, Florida
Returned three MBPro units for keyboard problems. It is sad as Apple used to be known for their great keyboards.
[doublepost=1507806114][/doublepost]
3 months in.. 3/2? I lost count. I left my new MacBook Pro for repair more than 3 months ago at the store.

It kept coming back with keyboard issues and eventually I gave up and asked for a refund. That was more than 2 months ago. Still no refund and still no MacBook Pro.

I even considered sending a letter explaining them to keep the money and the MacBook Pro in the hopes of making my point across.

A 3700€ MacBook Pro...

You need to get this escalated. No way it should take this long! Demand a new working device or refund.
 

0110076

Cancelled
Sep 4, 2016
35
30
That’s unacceptable. I can imagine how you feel.

Have you looked at the consumer legislation for your country and writing a formal letter to Apple quoting the relevant provisions? Such legislation can detail what is reasonable in terms of allowing the vendor an opportunity to repair.

It has to be unreasonable to keep a laptop in repairs for 2 to 3 months when that laptop only remains state-of-the-art for 12 months.

Apologies if I’m just repeating something you’ve already tried.

I feel that the Apple is no longer the company it used to be.

Legislation says that the store must issue a refund, if the client wants to, when they are unable to repair a product within a period of 30 days. They failed to do this. 30 days after I left the MacBook Pro at the store the machine already went 3 times for repair. One of them without my knowledge.

I demanded a refund. They said they are pressuring Apple to issue the refund and there is nothing they could do.

Regardless of what your country legislation might be, I would call the US customer care pronto. And threaten to plaster the social media with this. Unacceptable!

I'm gonna try and solve this and call support. I have AppleCare for the MacBook Pro. I did try it in the past. But they were unable to help me, because the MacBook Pro was purchased in a Fnac store.

Returned three MBPro units for keyboard problems. It is sad as Apple used to be known for their great keyboards.
[doublepost=1507806114][/doublepost]

You need to get this escalated. No way it should take this long! Demand a new working device or refund.

I know.. I'm pretty sure the Fnac store is just waiting for me to give up. At least 3 times that I went there to solve the issue by escalating it they said that the store manager was on holiday, then it was the sub-manager that went on holiday (but they assured things were being handled trough their system) then it was director that was on holiday. And a 4th time if I remember correctly that the director wasn't available to discuss the situation. Something about a meeting... I think I even offered to wait, but the meeting was outside of the store.. I don't know anymore.

...I really have to write all the details down and the timelines and then forward to someone at Apple, somehow.

How and why this is happening is beyond me.

I always purchase my tech, when possible, at a Fnac store because they are so freaking huge and are super well known across Europe. It's a place I believed I could purchase with confidence... I've been going there for like 10/15 years I think.
 
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