2017 MacBook Pro 13 non-TB Review

[smallcoffee]

Crazy. I look at threads like this is the opposite unicorn of the "I just walked out the store and dropped it and everything shattered to pieces but they replaced it for free" - type experiences.

Every interaction I've had at the Apple Store has been largely ok - frustrating at times because of how busy it is. Recently my Apple Watch just stopped working. Had to wait a few days to get into the Apple Store but I showed up early and they got me in early. The entire unit was replaced.

What would that experience have been like with a Samsung watch?
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As soon as we tried the new keyboard and the gimmicky touchbar for a couple of days, we were done with it. For a very long time, under Steve's watch, Apple computers were massively superior to anything else on the market at any given price, so it's not a lack of talent that plagues Apple today, but a lack of vision and strong leadership. Evidently Tim Cook can't keep all the talents in Apple under control.

I'm so tired of hearing this. If Jobs was still there we'd still be stuck in skeuomorphic design and wouldn't have the Apple Pencil. He was visionary and amazing, but this "Jobs would never do that thing I personally don't like" line of reasoning is becoming trite.

 

[Nixir]

I'm so tired of hearing this. If Jobs was still there we'd still be stuck in skeuomorphic design and wouldn't have the Apple Pencil. He was visionary and amazing, but this "Jobs would never do that thing I personally don't like" line of reasoning is becoming trite.

Funny. I was all for giving Tim a chance many years ago. He had me waiting and excited for his "amazing products in the pipeline" for years and years.

He's long past the probation period now.

 

[gobikerider]

I’ll be forking up the extra cash to get the definitive MBP 13 inch with the proper 2 fan cooling solution. Apple’s unfortunately made too many compromises with the entry level MBP with one of the most critical components (cooling).

 

[smallcoffee]

Funny. I was all for giving Tim a chance many years ago. He had me waiting and excited for his "amazing products in the pipeline" for years and years.

He's long past the probation period now.

You just have unrealistic expectations.

 

[Nixir]

You just have unrealistic expectations.

ROFL. I've always had high expectations of Apple. I reserve my low-medium standards for companies such as HP or Lenovo. And in the past Apple had exceeded my expectations many times.

I will continue to hold Apple to the very highest standards.

 

[smallcoffee]

ROFL. I've always had high expectations of Apple. I reserve my low-medium standards for companies such as HP or Lenovo. And in the past Apple had exceeded my expectations many times.

I will continue to hold Apple to the very highest standards.

That’s fine but you’re expecting a new iPhone or something. That’s once, maybe twice in a conpany’s existence.

 

[Spudlicious]

I have read all through post #1 in this thread, and I make three observations.

1. I'll never have a better Apple laptop than my 2015 Pro.
2. Nobody ever won an argument with a customer. Apple should have responded generously early in proceedings, they sure as hell can afford to.
3. Red ink is for auditors and loonies, keep your text black.

 

[Nixir]

That’s fine but you’re expecting a new iPhone or something. That’s once, maybe twice in a conpany’s existence.

Are you trying to imply implementing a reliable keyboard is like coming up with a new iPhone?

If Apple had simply kept the 2015 chassis with updated internals and screens, I'd have been a satisfied customer. How's that for "unrealistic expectations"?

 

[smallcoffee]

Are you trying to imply implementing a reliable keyboard is like coming up with a new iPhone?

If Apple had simply kept the 2015 chassis with updated internals and screens, I'd have been a satisfied customer. How's that for "unrealistic expectations"?

Nope not implying that whatsoever. How did you come up with that?

 

[Denmac1]

Update 41 - 23/11/2017 More Keyboard Failures

• So the ESC key is starting to fail. Which is ironic because I got the nTB model because it has a real ESC key - almost a necessity if you're a coder.
• Today the CONTROL key seems to be stuck on the on position. They itself doesn't seem stuck but it telling the laptop that it is constantly pressed. This means left/single mouse clicks register a right clicks. A right pain.
• Yet more actual video evidence .. not "opinion" which is what Apple's "executive liaison" called it.

I wish you the best in getting this resolved. I have been with Apple for several decades and am finding that they have grown up way too much and, IMHO, have lost focus on producing the best quality possible, as they have become a consumer oriented company. This has occurred basically from their niche previously and the popularity has grown possibly beyond quality control due to the mass they have to produce.
With that said, I'm glad I bought a refurb 2015 rMBP, and as I don't care about TB, I have been very pleased with my purchase and probably saving US $1000.
Once again, good luck with your process as Apple just needs to refund you and then you can purchase a refurb 2015.

 

[nvmls]

Main problem is people keep buying Apple's stuff blindly. Wake up, every mac product released under Cook's era has been a complete downgrade/let down, cheaper components, removal of iconic features, tidbits hardware bumps, nasty ethics such as the TB model carrying better hardware than nonTB model (now the same applied on iphone plus vs regular size), soldering components, joke price, etc. The keynotes are a snooze-fest, scripted smoke all over the place "amazing", "the best", "magical", "more coffee & klonopin plz", etc and a bunch of brainwashed sedated minions clapping over and over the same garbage.

A company whom some appreciate their "work ethics" lol, having a cash mountain distributed all over tax holes avoiding contribution to it's own economy, yea sure it's a business bla bla, but don't be so short sighted my god.. expect a bit more from life, your decisions matter, don't just feed corps like a kid on a candy shop!

The fact the company is selling more than ever says absolutely nothing positive other than they'll keep trying to cripple options/features and amplify margins for stockholders, that's all there is, it's not about the product, the "future", the "vision", the "user experience", they will just replace your overpriced flawed gadgets and call it a day.

Apple became cash grab company, it's sad but it is what it is, sure OS X is great and all but the level of arrogance has gotten so bad that many successful businesses already switched. It's extremely embarrassing for a professional to carry such fancy laptop with a dedicated touch screen and not be able to extend it's display to a standard monitor, you end up looking like an idiot who wants to show how much money you've spent on something extremely impractical, literally the few candidates who arrive here with TB MBPs (really really rare) and they start to take out dongles to do basic stuff I wish you could see the looks on people's faces, typing next to someone on a phone call/taking a nap is beyond annoying for a portable device of this magnitude and still some people will say it's best keyboard ever! how blind can you be my god! lol give it time don't worry.. it will eventually fail, they'll replace the whole flawed piece for a new flawed one, you'll go home thinking wow what a service paying the price of like 4 of those garbage laptops and you'll still have a prone to break unit.

Of course, your mileage may vary bla bla, sure, but enterprise market is not going to wait for these guys to come up with a true significant improvement considering their latest "innovation" rate, pretty much null. The "Pro" market to Apple has now become your kids.

Look at the pace of progress between mobile devices and the mac product line.. lol, who are you kidding? because we are only about 7-8% Apple's profit, we'll just buy any overpriced crap they put out? vote with your wallet and maybe then they'll actually consider they can come down to earth and think about users as much as stocks.

 

[Nixir]

Wake up, every mac product released under Cook's era has been a complete downgrade/let down, cheaper components, removal of iconic features, tidbits hardware bumps, nasty ethics such as the TB model carrying better hardware than nonTB model (now the same applied on iphone plus vs regular size), soldering components, joke price, etc.

The fact the company is selling more than ever says absolutely nothing positive other than they'll keep trying to cripple options/features and amplify margins for stockholders, that's all there is, it's not about the product, the "future", the "vision", the "user experience", they will just replace your overpriced flawed gadgets and call it a day.

Couldn't agree more. In Tim's big attempt to push the iPad, he completely ignored his need to offer the pros the best tools possible to develop content for his beloved iPads. I always quote Steve on this: "iPads are cars for consumers who largely consumes content, the Mac are trucks that do the heavy lifting". And on the topic of iPads, it seems Tim's failing at even that with the sorry state of iOS 11.

 

[gobikerider]

Couldn't agree more. In Tim's big attempt to push the iPad, he completely ignored his need to offer the pros the best tools possible to develop content for his beloved iPads. I always quote Steve on this: "iPads are cars for consumers who largely consumes content, the Mac are trucks that do the heavy lifting". And on the topic of iPads, it seems Tim's failing at even that with the sorry state of iOS 11.

Looking at the product videos of old MacBooks vs new ones I notice one thing. They used to note how they took what was good and made it better for sake of customers. The new ones it’s so focused on “design” with no mention of improvements that directly benefit us. It feels like Jony Ive is simply playing with design of products and I feel like Apple has lost a clear direction of products in terms of giving the customers the best computers without compromising.

 

[giffut]

The industrial design of the products is the center of it all for one reason only: profit margins. If you look closer at the last couple of years, all the designs had one central topic in mind: minimalism and upsell; but not in the sense of easier usability or quality.

The sole purpose is to save any excessive weight - and therefore cost - on any material, be it battery, metals ... that´s why Apple still collects enormous profits - and of course world wide tax evasion.

And more and more it begins to show in the quality and reliability of the products, completely independant from their pricing.

 

[clangers23]

I've had the keyboard issue on several occasions with both my 2016 MBP non-touch and subsequently 2017. I've been able to unblock them using the can of compressed air and a needle to slightly raise the key. It's not a great solution to having to routine unclog your keyboard because it can't cope with dirt.

I really like my 2017 MBP but I'm not pushing it in the way other owners are so haven't suffered any of the drawbacks. Apple routinely push the thermal limits with their laptops and they can run hot on the alter of thinness and quietness.

 

[Nixir]

Looking at the product videos of old MacBooks vs new ones I notice one thing. They used to note how they took what was good and made it better for sake of customers. The new ones it’s so focused on “design” with no mention of improvements that directly benefit us. It feels like Jony Ive is simply playing with design of products and I feel like Apple has lost a clear direction of products in terms of giving the customers the best computers without compromising.

Another sign of Tim's lack of ability to rein in Apple's executive talents. The iPhone, Mac, and Apple software divisions are run like independent entities with no clear unifying direction atm. And what ever happened to Steve's "Good, Better, Best" model for Apple product line ups? The Apple store is a confusing mess right now with years old iPhones and iPad Mini still for sales.

 

[Silver2k]

Another sign of Tim's lack of ability to rein in Apple's executive talents. The iPhone, Mac, and Apple software divisions are run like independent entities with no clear unifying direction atm. And what ever happened to Steve's "Good, Better, Best" model for Apple product line ups? The Apple store is a confusing mess right now with years old iPhones and iPad Mini still for sales.

I think Apple is creating way too much diversity in its product lineup. There's way too many options, colours, sizes and I think it may be hindering them. Rather than focusing on ONE iPad, ONE iPhone and ONE MacBook they are trying too many things to appeal to more people. Which creates way too much slop.

 

[gobikerider]

Another sign of Tim's lack of ability to rein in Apple's executive talents. The iPhone, Mac, and Apple software divisions are run like independent entities with no clear unifying direction atm. And what ever happened to Steve's "Good, Better, Best" model for Apple product line ups? The Apple store is a confusing mess right now with years old iPhones and iPad Mini still for sales.

Yah the MacBook Air shouldn’t be for sale anymore it irritates me, drop the MacBook to 999 and give me a 13inch MacBook with a fanless i5 for $1300 I’m curious if we’ll see something in March.

 

[Nixir]

Yah the MacBook Air shouldn’t be for sale anymore it irritates me, drop the MacBook to 999 and give me a 13inch MacBook with a fanless i5 for $1300 I’m curious if we’ll see something in March.

It's not even about the price atm. Apple just doesn't have a product in its computer line up that is truly "great" for anybody at any price, which is a complete 180 from what Apple is all about (making the best products possible at any cost).

Whoever is in charge of Apple computers needs to seriously reconsider what made Macs desirable in the first place, instead of coming up with non-existent problems to solve. I can't think of anyone complain about the older-gen trackpads being too small, so it needs to be twice the size now, which actually made it worse for people like me who use tap to click; or that Macs don't have a touch screen, so it has to have a beyond useless and gimmicky touch bar, I have been a fan of my son's Dell XPS ever since he got it, even then the novelty of its touchscreen wore off in less than 2 minutes, I see it as a gimmicky add-on to the 4K UHD bezeless display which to my eyes is as good as any mbp displays; or that MBPs were too heavy, so they had to reduce battery and ruin the perfectly fine older keyboard for the joke that it has become...

To paraphrase what the user above has said, every single Mac product released under Tim Cook has been keeping with the spirit of reducing production cost and maximizing profit all packed in a pretty shell. My user experience on the Mac peaked in 2015.

 

[Spudlicious]

To paraphrase what the user above has said, every single Mac product released under Tim Cook has been keeping with the spirit of reducing production cost and maximizing profit all packed in a pretty shell. My user experience on the Mac peaked in 2015.

On the other hand, Tim Cook has been a corporate superstar, trebling Apple's share price during his reign; he doesn't have to care what geeks like us think.
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OP:

Best solution:
Find a refurbished 2015 or a -new- 15" 2015 (still available from Apple).

Then...
Put the 2017 into the closet and let it be.

Cost you a LOT LESS frustration in life, and perhaps less $$$$, too...

Oh no, not the closet of despair, the OP could sell it. Current model, mint condition, perfect working order - we could all write the advert.

 

[project_2501]

Update 42 - 30/11/2017 Retina MBP 15" 2015

• The 2017 nTB is so unfit for work now with it's intermittently failing keyboard that I borrowed some money to get a 2015 (retina) MacBook Pro 15", new from John Lewis. It was £200 cheaper than the same spec new ones still available on Apple's website, and John Lewis offer a 2 year warranty vs Apple's 1 year warranty.
• In the several days I've been using it as my main work machine, it has never overheated, never spun up its fans to full, and the keyboard is a joy - something I took for granted before the 2017 disaster. The only thing I miss is the larger trackpad, smaller lighter portable size, and the faster GPU of the nTB for video on a 4K display fullscreen. On balance, this one should last me 5 years I hope. My wife's approx 5 year old iMac is still going strong.
• I'm still working towards a refund for the 2017 nTB.

 

[project_2501]

Look what turned up in my inbox...

I'll fill it in but I have extremely low confidence that it'll make any difference at all.

I'll be composing my final Letter Before Action next week.

Update 42 - 01/12/2017 Escape Key

• One of the key reasons I got a nTB model of the 2017 MacBook Pro was the real ESCAPE key. Like many professionals, I need a real Escape key. People have told me I should have got a more expensive model - but they don't have a real Escape key, so are inferior if you need one.
• It is supremely ironic and deeply tragicomic that .. the Escape key is failing.
• #BadLuckBrian

 

[project_2501]

Update 43 - 05/12/2017

• Today I issued apple with the final and formal Letter Before Court Action letter.
• I've been helped hugely by Citizens Advice Bureau and Consumer Advice in the UK.
• Interestingly, I discussed the possibility of Apple not complying with the ruling. They suggested that the next step then is a bailiff turning up at an Apple premises in the UK and taking assets. The possibility of that happening is certainly interesting to envisage.

 

[Cycling Asia]

Update 43 - 05/12/2017

• Today I issued apple with the final and formal Letter Before Court Action letter.
• I've been helped hugely by Citizens Advice Bureau and Consumer Advice in the UK.
• Interestingly, I discussed the possibility of Apple not complying with the ruling. They suggested that the next step then is a bailiff turning up at an Apple premises in the UK and taking assets. The possibility of that happening is certainly interesting to envisage.

If it does come to the point of the bailiff turning up at Apple, do try to get it on video - I'm sure Apple would pay you handsomely to have the footage deleted for they have a reputation to uphold and they don't want you to set a precedent.

 

[potoliya]

I literally opened an account just to comment on this thread.

Let me start by saying that I've been searching for a laptop for a long time now. I even tried 2 windows laptops (even one with 4k display and 8th-gen CPU) but just couldn't bear the unpolished and chaotic windows/PC-hardware ecosystem.

so I decided to pay the Apple tax and settled down on a non-touchbar model. While researching, I stumbled upon this thread and I almost didn't buy the non-touchbar. BUT, I'm just so glad I didn't listen to this guy's whining.

As I'm typing right now, I have it hooked up to a 1080p monitor, and binge watching The Punisher in HD for 2 hours fullscreen. NO fan noise whatsoever. It's also barely warm. And just to be clear, I bought the refurbished model. Not even the new one.

The OP clearly has a lemon unit AND is expecting something to function at its limits, which makes no sense to me.

Yes, Apple does say you can drive a 4k with this. But come on man, it's a ONE FAN ultrabook level unit with no dGPU. Do your research before buying things like this. Anything *theoretically* is possible. It's also theoretically possible to get 10hr+ battery life outa this laptop; however, you gotta run it at 150nits and probably just read Macrumers all day.

OP is running a 4k, on a defected unit, in clamshell mode. super realistic expectations! bravo. ( possible reply from OP: "****, my Lenovo runs 4k and it's older"). I really wanna know why he didn't exchange it in the 14-day period...

And I agree that this is definitely not a "PRO" unit though it's called one. But it does the job and its hardware specs are crystal clear. It's YOUR job as a pro to know your requirements, research your tools and make the purchase accordingly. Apple didn't kidnap your family and force you to buy this particular unit. Lets be honest, just like me, you wanted a MacBook but also didn't have the money for the new 15"


ANYHOW... here are my tips for whoever wants the nTB MacBook Pro 2017:

- The keyboard is weird, the sound is more clicky in the middle and that's normal. Don't return it just for that. I've heard all of them are like that. I think it has to do with the way the frame was engineered. Still doesn't mean it's not annoying tho..

- Buy an air spray and clean the laptop on weekly basis. I know it sounds ridiculous but Lets face it, this laptop is high-maintenance. If you want it, you're signing up for all the BS. So save yourself a possible trip to the Apple Store and get the potential dust out before it's too late.

- Don't get the 2.7ghz CPU. This laptop has one fan and 2.7ghz is only barely faster than 2.3ghz one. it will drain your batter faster, run your unit hotter and make your cash disappear.

- Buy 256GB - 512GB SSD. SSD hard drives start to slow down at 75% capacity. So always get more than what you need to maintain the speed.

- Buy the 16GB model if you're a pro. Less stress on the computer and happier days for you.

- Don't buy the over-priced Apple adapters and consider Amazon instead. And don't listen to dongle life complaints. All you need is a USB-C Hub (SD card reader+ usb 3 + hdmi) for max $30-$70 CAD and a USB-C to USB-3 for day-to-day stuff for max $15 CAD

- Also, don't expect 4K @ 60hz from HDMI adapters. 99% of the market adapters would fail you! In addition to that, make sure that the adapter's USB3 ports can actually power your devices.


I hope this post could help someone out there with their purchase.

Cheers