2017 MacBook Pro 13 non-TB Review

[th0masp]

wow, this review is ... quite something! will pass on the link for sure. sorry to hear about your troubles, what a nightmare.

i ruled out the redesigned MBP when i was in the market last year after playing with it in the store. you could tell that the keyboard was a downgrade, the touchbar a silly one-off gimmick to be ridiculed in a few years as a tech-flop and that the replacement of magsafe with a flimsy thunderbolt solution is a real practical issue.

i had the still-current 2015 15 inch on my list but after doing comparisons with my current MBP the performance difference would have been to minor for the tasks at hand to shell out what would have amounted to 3 grand for several years old hardware. so i just resorted to giving mine a makeover at a repair center and am holding out for better days.

just wanted to say i do not think that the 'Pro' in macbook Pro really designates a portable workstation - it's just apple's designation for their top flight laptop. when you look at what's being offered in workstation laptops elsewhere in terms of RAM, quadro GPU, calibrated displays and so forth it's pretty clear the MBP is still a consumer class machine.


in any case: fingers crossed that you'll get it all sorted out!

 

[whg]

My conclusion from reading this and some other threads on the nTB 13" model is that Apple made a mistake to release a cheaper version of the 13" MacBook Pro. It seems that the TB versions are much better even if this is not fully reflected in reviews and benchmarks.

I got a 2015 model MBP 15" because I was reluctant to get one of the 2016 models without all the traditional connectors and the TouchBar also didn't convince me. I was not afraid of the keyboard which I knew from owning a MB 12" before and I quite liked it.

When I was looking for a newer 2017 model I immediately ruled out the nTB model when I read about fan noise. I chose the 15" model because I need the larger screen. After several weeks I can only conclude that this is the best MacBook I ever had, but I also got AppleCare to be on the safe side should my keyboard start to fail.

This reminds me of the 2012 rMBP 15" I owned. I read here on MR that there are 2 versions: those that have screen retention issues and and those that don't have it yet. My rMBP developed fairly strong screen ghosting in its 3rd year and I decided to sell it and get the 2015 model, even when I wouldn't get a significant performance gain and I even lost the dedicated GPU.

 

[oldtime]

Man I would love to pick up a 2015 15". I just can't get over the fact that it's still so pricy. Hard for me to drop that much cash on a machine that's nearing 3 years of age, but it is a well-crafted workhorse with very few shortcomings.

 

[spacehippo]

Damn, I was honestly thinking of going out tomorrow and getting the MBP nTB 13" 2017 with 256Gb HD and 8Gb RAM but now I'm definitely putting that purchase on hold. Previous I've read reviews about the keyboard and gotten the impression that it's basically a personal preference thing. I've tried it out in a shop and I like the clicking so it doesn't bothers me, but it looks like there might be some serious issue with quality especially if you constantly run the laptop with heavy processor loads.

I've been on PC camp for a while now and was thinking of returning back to Macs but damn I'm getting major flashbacks here. The first ever Mac I had was a 15" Powerbook that kept breaking down. I had a long back and forth with Apple customer service and it was a pain in the ass but in the end I got a new Macbook because they no longer had a replacement Powerbook parts. To be fair my 24" iMac and 11" Macbook Air did work without any problems though.

I want to get a new computer and I'm fluctuating between the latest 27" 5k iMac and the MBP nTB 13" 2017 with an external 4k display, but this thread has me a bit freaked out. Honestly after reading this whole thread I'm really worried. I mean, I've always known that Apple products have been over priced, you pay a huge premium for their designs that are sometimes amazing and other times not so amazing especially when it comes to component durability. All I know is I'm 100% sure going to get AppleCare for it if I do end up getting a Mac as my next computer.

PS. Would getting 16Gb of RAM help to reduce the load of the processor in tasks like video encoding/photo editing and there for help to run the laptop cooler (without fans kicking in so much) or does it matter?

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

Damn, I was honestly thinking of going out tomorrow and getting the MBP nTB 13" 2017 with 256Gb HD and 8Gb RAM but now I'm definitely putting that purchase on hold. Previous I've read reviews about the keyboard and gotten the impression that it's basically a personal preference thing. I've tried it out in a shop and I like the clicking so it doesn't bothers me, but it looks like there might be some serious issue with quality especially if you constantly run the laptop with heavy processor loads.

I've been on PC camp for a while now and was thinking of returning back to Macs but damn I'm getting major flashbacks here. The first ever Mac I had was a 15" Powerbook that kept breaking down. I had a long back and forth with Apple customer service and it was a pain in the ass but in the end I got a new Macbook because they no longer had a replacement Powerbook parts. To be fair my 24" iMac and 11" Macbook Air did work without any problems though.

I want to get a new computer and I'm fluctuating between the latest 27" 5k iMac and the MBP nTB 13" 2017 with an external 4k display, but this thread has me a bit freaked out. Honestly after reading this whole thread I'm really worried. I mean, I've always known that Apple products have been over priced, you pay a huge premium for their designs that are sometimes amazing and other times not so amazing especially when it comes to component durability. All I know is I'm 100% sure going to get AppleCare for it if I do end up getting a Mac as my next computer.

PS. Would getting 16Gb of RAM help to reduce the load of the processor in tasks like video encoding/photo editing and there for help to run the laptop cooler (without fans kicking in so much) or does it matter?

RAM wouldn't make a difference. Get one and try it with your use case, if it melts your desk whilst opening an email then take it back and get a refund. Or base your opinions entirely on stories from the internet.

For what it's worth there's a huge difference between a 27" iMac and the base model MBP. If you think what you want to do would work on the base model then why consider a 27"? If it's portability that you're after then the 13" TB version is much better equipped.

 

[parajba]

Does not help but I have a 2017 nTB i7/16/512 and it has been flawless. Best laptop I have ever had.

 

[casperghst42]

Interesting thread, it reminds me of some of the same problems (over heating) which was seen with the original Macbook Pro Intel back in 2006 (I had one) which was prone to over heating - some people here might remember the problem. Everything was discussed, like paste (too thin, too thick), and so one. It was a major problem until the next generation was released in, I think, 2008.

The keyboard problems being discussed are disturbing, I now have an 11" from 2011 which just got a new keyboard, and an rMBP form 2013 which has been used every single day since I got it, and still going strong. If it's not possible to rely on the keyboard surviving at least 4 - 5 years then there is a problem.

It will be intersting to see what the end result will be, as I'm slowly being forced to do something serious about my old 11" air which not happy after the Meltdown and Spectre patch....

 

[merrickdrfc]

Had the 2017 nTB 13" at work for a few months - got really warm and made a lot of noise most of the time. The keyboard also seemed to have some 'sticky' keys? Seemed to be temperature related as they became more hard to press and noisy when the machine was warmer.

However, it has just been replaced by a 2017 TB 13", and have to say it is leaps and bounds better. The machine seems to be much better at keeping itself cool, keyboard feels just right and just feels an all round better machine. Touch Bar is cool, but will have to spend a bit more time with it to see whether I can adjust my usage for it better.

In my experience, the nTB model is not good enough.

 

[oldtime]

Damn, I was honestly thinking of going out tomorrow and getting the MBP nTB 13" 2017 with 256Gb HD and 8Gb RAM but now I'm definitely putting that purchase on hold. Previous I've read reviews about the keyboard and gotten the impression that it's basically a personal preference thing. I've tried it out in a shop and I like the clicking so it doesn't bothers me, but it looks like there might be some serious issue with quality especially if you constantly run the laptop with heavy processor loads.

I've been on PC camp for a while now and was thinking of returning back to Macs but damn I'm getting major flashbacks here. The first ever Mac I had was a 15" Powerbook that kept breaking down. I had a long back and forth with Apple customer service and it was a pain in the ass but in the end I got a new Macbook because they no longer had a replacement Powerbook parts. To be fair my 24" iMac and 11" Macbook Air did work without any problems though.

I want to get a new computer and I'm fluctuating between the latest 27" 5k iMac and the MBP nTB 13" 2017 with an external 4k display, but this thread has me a bit freaked out. Honestly after reading this whole thread I'm really worried. I mean, I've always known that Apple products have been over priced, you pay a huge premium for their designs that are sometimes amazing and other times not so amazing especially when it comes to component durability. All I know is I'm 100% sure going to get AppleCare for it if I do end up getting a Mac as my next computer.

PS. Would getting 16Gb of RAM help to reduce the load of the processor in tasks like video encoding/photo editing and there for help to run the laptop cooler (without fans kicking in so much) or does it matter?

I believe Apple's full refund return period is 14 days, so why not give it a try and return it if it feels like a dud?

 

[muratura]

Holy moly! I come back to this thread and it's like a whole novel... so much development.

But yeah, the keyboard failing and the screen separating from cover due to heat sound awfully familiar. Plus the noise on load (which is somewhat to be expected of a single fan - he works hard the poor little fellow).

People say that the 12" MB will replace the MBA but I think the 13" MBP nTB is the actual replacement in AAPL's roadmap. And from the reviews it seems the 13" nTB has a lower qa than the 12".

 

[abetancort]

Wish You a Happy Brexit!

 

[Wags]

Had the 2017 nTB 13" at work for a few months - got really warm and made a lot of noise most of the time. The keyboard also seemed to have some 'sticky' keys? Seemed to be temperature related as they became more hard to press and noisy when the machine was warmer.

However, it has just been replaced by a 2017 TB 13", and have to say it is leaps and bounds better. The machine seems to be much better at keeping itself cool, keyboard feels just right and just feels an all round better machine. Touch Bar is cool, but will have to spend a bit more time with it to see whether I can adjust my usage for it better.

In my experience, the nTB model is not good enough.

Geekbench scores show ntb 2.3 outperforms tb 3.1

 

[ixxx69]

Geekbench scores show ntb 2.3 outperforms tb 3.1

Care to quantify that for us?

I'll do it for you. About 2% difference on a synthetic benchmark.

Context is important.

 

[Wags]

Care to quantify that for us?

I'll do it for you. About 2% difference on a synthetic benchmark.

Context is important.

That is my point and trying to understand by comments. ‘TB better equipped than ntb’ or ‘ntb not good enough’ ?

 

[curtoise]

Damn, I was honestly thinking of going out tomorrow and getting the MBP nTB 13" 2017 with 256Gb HD and 8Gb RAM but now I'm definitely putting that purchase on hold. Previous I've read reviews about the keyboard and gotten the impression that it's basically a personal preference thing. I've tried it out in a shop and I like the clicking so it doesn't bothers me, but it looks like there might be some serious issue with quality especially if you constantly run the laptop with heavy processor loads.

I've been on PC camp for a while now and was thinking of returning back to Macs but damn I'm getting major flashbacks here. The first ever Mac I had was a 15" Powerbook that kept breaking down. I had a long back and forth with Apple customer service and it was a pain in the ass but in the end I got a new Macbook because they no longer had a replacement Powerbook parts. To be fair my 24" iMac and 11" Macbook Air did work without any problems though.

I want to get a new computer and I'm fluctuating between the latest 27" 5k iMac and the MBP nTB 13" 2017 with an external 4k display, but this thread has me a bit freaked out. Honestly after reading this whole thread I'm really worried. I mean, I've always known that Apple products have been over priced, you pay a huge premium for their designs that are sometimes amazing and other times not so amazing especially when it comes to component durability. All I know is I'm 100% sure going to get AppleCare for it if I do end up getting a Mac as my next computer.

PS. Would getting 16Gb of RAM help to reduce the load of the processor in tasks like video encoding/photo editing and there for help to run the laptop cooler (without fans kicking in so much) or does it matter?

I had the nTB and I loved getting 13-14 hours of battery, it was amazing, I went to a 4 day to Disney with my kids and never pull out the charger out of the backpack, I used the laptop without worrying about having to plug it at all.
But... Best Buy had an amazing deal yesterday for a Touch Bar 256gb at $1300, that's over $400 less than regular price, I actually added only $100 and exchange the nTB for the TB one, I like that I can program the touch bar with apps like BetterTouchTool but the battery took a hit, I just started testing by regular unplugging and work on battery and I'm only getting a 8 hour estimate.

 

[tim1000]

I had the nTB and I loved getting 13-14 hours of battery, it was amazing, I went to a 4 day to Disney with my kids and never pull out the charger out of the backpack, I used the laptop without worrying about having to plug it at all.
But... Best Buy had an amazing deal yesterday for a Touch Bar 256gb at $1300, that's over $400 less than regular price, I actually added only $100 and exchange the nTB for the TB one, I like that I can program the touch bar with apps like BetterTouchTool but the battery took a hit, I just started testing by regular unplugging and work on battery and I'm only getting a 8 hour estimate.

I wonder whats going on the battery difference between the 2 shouldn't be so significant.

 

[curtoise]

I wonder whats going on the battery difference between the 2 shouldn't be so significant.

The battery on the Touch Bar one is smaller, I still think I'll stay with the TB but it bothers me that I get a couple of hours less, hopefully the new model will improve on that.

 

[Wags]

The battery on the Touch Bar one is smaller, I still think I'll stay with the TB but it bothers me that I get a couple of hours less, hopefully the new model will improve on that.

Have you found some usefulness with the touchbar?

 

[conifer]

I have had the 2016 nTB since it was released. The fans have not kicked in, even with occasional Netflix or YouTube use or transcoding video.
It gets slightly warm after a few hours of use.
Apple had to repair the keyboard after about a year as one key was broken. I think they gave me the 2017 keyboard as it has the new symbols, saw a post on one of these threads that said Apple put rubber gaskets under keys to protect from dust.
I got a new battery from them also and battery life seems to be longer, capacity is 4654 mah , perhaps they gave me the 2017 battery also?

 

[Wags]

I have had the 2016 nTB since it was released. The fans have not kicked in, even with occasional Netflix or YouTube use or transcoding video.
It gets slightly warm after a few hours of use.
Apple had to repair the keyboard after about a year as one key was broken. I think they gave me the 2017 keyboard as it has the new symbols, saw a post on one of these threads that said Apple put rubber gaskets under keys to protect from dust.
I got a new battery from them also and battery life seems to be longer, capacity is 4654 mah , perhaps they gave me the 2017 battery also?

I noticed at store the case is different on the TB with vents. I think supposed to be cooler under heavy load.

 

[bhatiak]

I have had the 2016 nTB since it was released. The fans have not kicked in, even with occasional Netflix or YouTube use or transcoding video.
It gets slightly warm after a few hours of use.
Apple had to repair the keyboard after about a year as one key was broken. I think they gave me the 2017 keyboard as it has the new symbols, saw a post on one of these threads that said Apple put rubber gaskets under keys to protect from dust.
I got a new battery from them also and battery life seems to be longer, capacity is 4654 mah , perhaps they gave me the 2017 battery also?

They've never turned on lol? Do you use an external monitor ever, or ever have LOTS of tabs open w/ multi-tasking?

 

[Acronyc]

They've never turned on lol? Do you use an external monitor ever, or ever have LOTS of tabs open w/ multi-tasking?

I'm guessing the fan has turned on, it just wasn't noticeable. I've had an nTB since release as well and when I am doing light tasks (internet browsing, word processing, email, etc.) or if it's idling the fan is at 0RPM. However if I'm doing anything more intensive (lots of streaming, light audio encoding), I've seen the fan come up to 1800RPM, but this isn't noticeable unless you are in a dead quiet room or put your ear to the bottom case. Once it kicks up to 4000RPM or more (such as when playing a game) the fan noise is easily noticeable.

Overall though, in my experience using the 2016 nTB for 16 months now it's been very quiet. Much quieter than my 2012 rMBP was.

 

[conifer]

I'm guessing the fan has turned on, it just wasn't noticeable. I've had an nTB since release as well and when I am doing light tasks (internet browsing, word processing, email, etc.) or if it's idling the fan is at 0RPM. However if I'm doing anything more intensive (lots of streaming, light audio encoding), I've seen the fan come up to 1800RPM, but this isn't noticeable unless you are in a dead quiet room or put your ear to the bottom case. Once it kicks up to 4000RPM or more (such as when playing a game) the fan noise is easily noticeable.

Overall though, in my experience using the 2016 nTB for 16 months now it's been very quiet. Much quieter than my 2012 rMBP was.

I monitored with SystemPal and agree with what you said. Fans were mostly 0 even with amazon video streaming in safari and a second stream of YouTube or other video streaming in chrome, browsing word processing email, and also either copying to USB or dvd writing to hard drive all going as well.

Fans kicked in at 1200RPM at various intervals — ie when CrashPlan started, I received an iMessage, dvd drive had trouble reading disk. From this I would guess that receiving texts and updates might trigger fans.

Running crashplan at 1200 RPM and then using handbrake to encode video, kicked fans up to 5500. Still pretty quiet as opposed to my late 2008 aluminum.

After handbrake was finished, fans went back to 0 even with CrashPlan still running. But I suspect if I continued to use Mac for a few hours, it might go back to 1200 level.

 

[bhatiak]

I monitored with SystemPal and agree with what you said. Fans were mostly 0 even with amazon video streaming in safari and a second stream of YouTube or other video streaming in chrome, browsing word processing email, and also either copying to USB or dvd writing to hard drive all going as well.

Fans kicked in at 1200RPM at various intervals — ie when CrashPlan started, I received an iMessage, dvd drive had trouble reading disk. From this I would guess that receiving texts and updates might trigger fans.

Running crashplan at 1200 RPM and then using handbrake to encode video, kicked fans up to 5500. Still pretty quiet as opposed to my late 2008 aluminum.

After handbrake was finished, fans went back to 0 even with CrashPlan still running. But I suspect if I continued to use Mac for a few hours, it might go back to 1200 level.

What is your experience with streaming using Twitch, using FaceTime, or having an external monitor plugged in. I feel like my experience with my MBP isnt normal. 100% of the time I have FaceTime and my 1080p plugged in, the fans will get relatively loud.

 

[conifer]

I used FaceTime video last night and I think it was 0 but obviously I wasn’t using anything else at the same time that I was FaceTiming. I don’t use twitch but I looked at it and it seems similar to amazon prime, YouTube or other browser streaming services.

I don’t use an external monitor and wouldn’t be surprised if that taxes the system. Have you tried using FaceTime or streaming twitch without it?

Edit: I’m using a 2016 Pro and I read the skylake chip runs a tad cooler than the 2017 chip but don’t know if it’s true.

Edit 2: I’m on Sierra