2017 MacBook Pro 13 non-TB Review

[ls1dreams]

Fan noise is one of my hugest gripes about laptops. My 2011 MBP runs insanely hot and has the fans spinning all the time. Any pressure to get apple to work to improve things and stop worrying about thinness would be great.

It's also another reason I've been trying to hold out for AV1 hardware decoding on chips. Probably won't see that until 2019 at a minimum though =/

 

[macdudesir]

Fan noise is one of my hugest gripes about laptops. My 2011 MBP runs insanely hot and has the fans spinning all the time. Any pressure to get apple to work to improve things and stop worrying about thinness would be great.

It's also another reason I've been trying to hold out for AV1 hardware decoding on chips. Probably won't see that until 2019 at a minimum though =/

Can happily say that I have not heard the fans AT ALL (and I've put my ear up to it to listen at times when I thought they might be on) in my TouchBar MBP, even when dealing with big data in excel running in parallels, Lightroom editing, etc...Granted I'm sure if I stressed the machine, I would hear the fans. But in my normal use, they have been silent. The TB model obviously has a much higher cooling capacity.

For comparison, I used to have a 2012 MBA 11'' and I wouldn't say the fan was loud enough in normal use to bother me, but it was noticeable, as the case was almost always warm...where as my MPB in normal web surfing, email, smaller excel files etc stays cool to the touch.

 

[project_2501]

Update 45 - 08/02/2018

• Apple have employed SCS Law to defend them. Today I received a letter telling me they dispute the claim.
• Specifically they say that no Apple employee has ever written to me confirming the problems .. which is off because I have an email from them saying just that. It also turned up in the legal Subject Access Request so they do know about it. I hope SCS Law take a look at the evidence collated in this thread which Apple's staff also confirms din writing as being "verifiable evidence".

 

[kudos212]

Dude, I just read through this whole thread and you have provided no evidence that your Mac is broken. You've never even brought up activity monitor on what programs are actually running at the same time. There is no technical knowledge you have or received from this forum that's helping you in any way. These MacBook pros do get warm, but if they get too hot they will automatically shut off. These computers do have fans, if you hate the sound you should of switched to the 12" MacBook. You also were unable to replicate these issues at the Genius Bar, which frankly, is the whole point. A broken key will not "sometimes" register every 200 words, it will show fault. I've fixed computers before, and your in over your head my friend.

keep the thread updated, because if you actually win with no evidence besides you complaining to the genius technician a million times over and getting everything replaced again and again I will eat a hat.

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

Dude, I just read through this whole thread and you have provided no evidence that your Mac is broken. You've never even brought up activity monitor on what programs are actually running at the same time. There is no technical knowledge you have or received from this forum that's helping you in any way. These MacBook pros do get warm, but if they get too hot they will automatically shut off. These computers do have fans, if you hate the sound you should of switched to the 12" MacBook. You also were unable to replicate these issues at the Genius Bar, which frankly, is the whole point. A broken key will not "sometimes" register every 200 words, it will show fault. I've fixed computers before, and your in over your head my friend.

keep the thread updated, because if you actually win with no evidence besides you complaining to the genius technician a million times over and getting everything replaced again and again I will eat a hat.

Tried saying this many times... I still don't think the OP has gotten independent evidence besides this thread and visits to Apple stores.

Fundamentally however, the OP has enjoyed the use of the computer for the period of time he was disputing the issue. Legally the best case is a partial refund as the computer is in no way 'broken' according to the evidence contained here. But it's been interesting watching one persons tenacity in this, at least they took my advice and went to the CAB instead of posting endless frustrations here (Although to be honest I was expecting the CAB to echo these thoughts, volunteers I guess).

All I've tried to do is set realistic expectations for the OP. And realistically demanding a full refund for a computer that works and has been used over a fan noise is extremely unlikely. If Apple had a big sticker on the box saying "100% silent operation even at max CPU load" then there'd be a case. I only worry this is going to cost the OP a lot of money in legal fees and eventually garnering actual evidence and all for a few hundred pound refund at best, and paying legal fees at worst.

Hopefully it all works out but I wish the OP just sold the computer, took the loss and moved on. I am just as interested in how this goes though so do keep us updated. Note I'm not trying to pooh pooh your case, I can just see this leading to much further stresses and taking years for no resolution before you accept a position.

 

[bcave098]

Tried saying this many times... I still don't think the OP has gotten independent evidence besides this thread and visits to Apple stores.

Fundamentally however, the OP has enjoyed the use of the computer for the period of time he was disputing the issue. Legally the best case is a partial refund as the computer is in no way 'broken' according to the evidence contained here. But it's been interesting watching one persons tenacity in this, at least they took my advice and went to the CAB instead of posting endless frustrations here (Although to be honest I was expecting the CAB to echo these thoughts, volunteers I guess).

All I've tried to do is set realistic expectations for the OP. And realistically demanding a full refund for a computer that works and has been used over a fan noise is extremely unlikely. If Apple had a big sticker on the box saying "100% silent operation even at max CPU load" then there'd be a case. I only worry this is going to cost the OP a lot of money in legal fees and eventually garnering actual evidence and all for a few hundred pound refund at best, and paying legal fees at worst.

Hopefully it all works out but I wish the OP just sold the computer, took the loss and moved on. I am just as interested in how this goes though so do keep us updated. Note I'm not trying to pooh pooh your case, I can just see this leading to much further stresses and taking years for no resolution before you accept a position.

OP thinks an apology is an admission of guilt. I don’t think OP is ever reasonable.

 

[glhiii]

Glad I found this thread and others about the 2016-17 MBP's. I was about to get one, but instead bought a 2015 13" one on eBay with 16GB RAM and a 3.1GHz processor. I have a 2012 15" rMBP office machine that's been used heavily and still works perfectly. The 13" machine I just bought (actually produced in 2016) works like a charm and I suspect will last quite a few years. I saved quite a bit of money and am relieved to have a slightly older top-of-the line machine that is 100% reliable. By the way, we compared the display of a friend's 2017 15" MBP with my 2012 rMBP and could not see any difference even though we looked at many different images on both of them.

 

[malikkamran]

You made a grave mistake 2016/17 macbook pro are marvelous

Glad I found this thread and others about the 2016-17 MBP's. I was about to get one, but instead bought a 2015 13" one on eBay with 16GB RAM and a 3.1GHz processor. I have a 2012 15" rMBP office machine that's been used heavily and still works perfectly. The 13" machine I just bought (actually produced in 2016) works like a charm and I suspect will last quite a few years. I saved quite a bit of money and am relieved to have a slightly older top-of-the line machine that is 100% reliable. By the way, we compared the display of a friend's 2017 15" MBP with my 2012 rMBP and could not see any difference even though we looked at many different images on both of them.

 

[lambertjohn]

You made a grave mistake 2016/17 macbook pro are marvelous

Grave mistake? Seriously?

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

Glad I found this thread and others about the 2016-17 MBP's. I was about to get one, but instead bought a 2015 13" one on eBay with 16GB RAM and a 3.1GHz processor. I have a 2012 15" rMBP office machine that's been used heavily and still works perfectly. The 13" machine I just bought (actually produced in 2016) works like a charm and I suspect will last quite a few years. I saved quite a bit of money and am relieved to have a slightly older top-of-the line machine that is 100% reliable. By the way, we compared the display of a friend's 2017 15" MBP with my 2012 rMBP and could not see any difference even though we looked at many different images on both of them.

It's the same display, the 2016+ is significantly brighter is the only difference.

Also don't be fooled into thinking a used 2015 is going to be 100% reliable, that's just asking for trouble. All computers can have issues, and buying a used one is going to increase that change. It's not like the 2016/2017 devices are 100% destined to fail whereas the 2015 is 100% reliable, they all had issues. Also this thread is primarily about a nTB version being loud when under high CPU load.

Either way enjoy the computer you have! You don't need to get a 2016/2017/2015 or anything, just get whatever you want and be happy with it.

 

[teffers]

Update 45 - 08/02/2018

• Apple have employed SCS Law to defend them. Today I received a letter telling me they dispute the claim.
• Specifically they say that no Apple employee has ever written to me confirming the problems .. which is off because I have an email from them saying just that. It also turned up in the legal Subject Access Request so they do know about it. I hope SCS Law take a look at the evidence collated in this thread which Apple's staff also confirms din writing as being "verifiable evidence".

A quick Google appears to show the bulk of their work is in recovering parking charges (PCNs) ... Classy.

 

[burgman]

Grave mistake? Seriously?

Yes, step back in time here and read countless posts about the 6100 GPU and other issues on the 13 inch. like anti-reflection coating, screen issues etc. Lots of rose-colored glasses in use here concerning earlier RMB's

 

[project_2501]

but I wish the OP just sold the computer, took the loss and moved on

You're assuming I can afford the loss.
[doublepost=1518469102][/doublepost]

Grave mistake? Seriously?

I used to work for an "internet" company paid to manage online brand reputation whose clients were massive companies.

I joined because I thought it was about using cool algorithms to find infringement.

I left after a few weeks when I realised those big companies just paid people to act like normal Internet citizens and post on forums and social media to discredit anyone saying anything bad about them - even if it was true.

Just saying some of these posts remind of that.
[doublepost=1518469813][/doublepost]

Tried saying this many times... I still don't think the OP has gotten independent evidence besides this thread and visits to Apple stores.

Fundamentally however, the OP has enjoyed the use of the computer for the period of time he was disputing the issue. Legally the best case is a partial refund as the computer is in no way 'broken' according to the evidence contained here. But it's been interesting watching one persons tenacity in this, at least they took my advice and went to the CAB instead of posting endless frustrations here (Although to be honest I was expecting the CAB to echo these thoughts, volunteers I guess).

All I've tried to do is set realistic expectations for the OP. And realistically demanding a full refund for a computer that works and has been used over a fan noise is extremely unlikely. If Apple had a big sticker on the box saying "100% silent operation even at max CPU load" then there'd be a case. I only worry this is going to cost the OP a lot of money in legal fees and eventually garnering actual evidence and all for a few hundred pound refund at best, and paying legal fees at worst.

Hopefully it all works out but I wish the OP just sold the computer, took the loss and moved on. I am just as interested in how this goes though so do keep us updated. Note I'm not trying to pooh pooh your case, I can just see this leading to much further stresses and taking years for no resolution before you accept a position.

Did you miss the bit about keys not working?

Or the bit about the screen adhesive failing due to the heat?

 

[th0masp]

Fan noise is one of my hugest gripes about laptops. My 2011 MBP runs insanely hot and has the fans spinning all the time.

You could look into applying fresh thermal paste after all these years, clean any dustbunnies out of the machine and - if viable in your use case and system config - enforce the use of the iGPU. the AMD dGPU in the 2011's makes the fans spin up quickly and by default kicks in for a lot of tasks where it's not needed (video playback, etc).

 

[kudos212]

Did you miss the bit about keys not working?

Or the bit about the screen adhesive failing due to the heat?

You said apple replaced the screen for you didn't they? And I haven't seen any evidence your keyboard hasn't been working the videos you put up are software glitches and you don't have the technical knowledge of actually showing what is going wrong or just restarting your computer. You cannot just tell apple it's broken a million times, they will replace but they will write it down that they never observed the issue.

Then finally, You actually bought a 15"(!) MacBook Pro 2015, which you should of bought a 15" to begin with(2015, 2016, or 2017), as it is quad core. I don't think you will ever receive a refund because you never proved to the apple store the hardware faults you told us of on this forum. Of course the 2015 never overheated, your 2017 never overheated either. This huge thread is just a fail in every sense of the word.

I mean seriously, why didn't you just buy another 13" from 2015, and find out that it's even worse than your non-touch bar. Some people just don't understand how computers work.

 

[JamesMay82]

Glad I found this thread and others about the 2016-17 MBP's. I was about to get one, but instead bought a 2015 13" one on eBay with 16GB RAM and a 3.1GHz processor. I have a 2012 15" rMBP office machine that's been used heavily and still works perfectly. The 13" machine I just bought (actually produced in 2016) works like a charm and I suspect will last quite a few years. I saved quite a bit of money and am relieved to have a slightly older top-of-the line machine that is 100% reliable. By the way, we compared the display of a friend's 2017 15" MBP with my 2012 rMBP and could not see any difference even though we looked at many different images on both of them.

If the 2012 works fine why buy a 2015 model?

I also have the 2012 and it works great still.. I'd love a new model but can't see the reason to upgrade just yet plus the new machines don't seem much faster on the day to day stuff.

 

[Nautilus007]

I feel for you bro, I read this whole thread but at some point....how much is your time work even if you were a minimum wage employee, I would think time invested has exceeded the cost of a new laptop a few times over.

 

[ProwlingTiger]

I feel for you bro, I read this whole thread but at some point....how much is your time work even if you were a minimum wage employee, I would think time invested has exceeded the cost of a new laptop a few times over.

Seems to be about principle at this point. Admirable. I love Apple products as much as the next guy, but either a huge part of the story is missing here (the other side) or Apple really treated him/her poorly.

 

[Glockworkorange]

If the OP's time is worth say, $100.00 an hour, he could probably have bought three new machines given the amount of work in and out of the forums.

I believe OP is wasting his time. At this point, I don't think you're going to get any type of result that makes you happy. Their lawyers are involved. Not sure you're going to get much out of this.

Even if you somehow get one over on Apple's legal team, the time, resources, etc., etc. you are spending, are going to be far greater than the value of the machine--it'd be a pyrrhic victory.

With respect, time to move on. Just my two cents.

 

[project_2501]

Some people just don't understand how computers work.

What are your qualifications on which you base this assertion?

Me, I have 25 years in technology - from operating system coding (BSD which made its way into MacOS) to managing massive fleets of computers, I am an Amazon #1 Bestseller Author and regular speaker at technology conferences, I have a degree in physics and a masters in advanced computing, I run classes teaching kids about hardware and undergrads about software. I ran two major tech communities in London with a combined membership of about 7,000. My first job was designing and looking after robots and their controllers sent into civil nuclear reactors. I was coding at the age of 7. My last job was modernising technology security in a major organisation employing 200,000 employees.

Tell me again, what are your qualifications?

 

[Freyqq]

I think you'll find your high fan noise issue to be firmly an OSX problem rather than a hardware fault. I dual-boot OSX and Windows 10 and OSX tends to spin up the fans for video a lot more than in Windows. Even something as simple as youtube can produce high fan noise, while Windows doesn't seem to have a similar impact. This is on a quad core haswell processor btw. If activity monitor shows CPU activity and you have high level of heat, then that's really a CPU utilization issue for a simple task - an OSX issue. If you have low CPU utilization and high heat, or auto-shutdowns due to high heat, then that's more of a hardware fault. Also keeping the laptop closed while in use can lead to high heat, as I've found a lot of heat is radiated from under the keyboard.

At the end of the day, Apple is just using the same Intel processors as everyone else. It's the software that drives the performance (which they engineer).

 

[project_2501]

I think you'll find your high fan noise issue to be firmly an OSX problem rather than a hardware fault. I dual-boot OSX and Windows 10 and OSX tends to spin up the fans for video a lot more than in Windows. Even something as simple as youtube can produce high fan noise, while Windows doesn't seem to have a similar impact. This is on a quad core haswell processor btw. If activity monitor shows CPU activity and you have high level of heat, then that's really a CPU utilization issue for a simple task - an OSX issue. If you have low CPU utilization and high heat, or auto-shutdowns due to high heat, then that's more of a hardware fault. Also keeping the laptop closed while in use can lead to high heat, as I've found a lot of heat is radiated from under the keyboard.

At the end of the day, Apple is just using the same Intel processors as everyone else. It's the software that drives the performance (which they engineer).

Apple is designing hardware around the intel processor. That includes the motherboard, fans, vents, keyboard.

• If the keyboard keeps failing - that is Apple's fault.

• If the heat damages the adhesive around the display panel - that is Apple's fault.

• If the MacOS software is poorly driving the Intel CPU - that is Apple's fault.

• If my 5 year old £500 Thinkpad can drive a 4K display, connected over DisplayPort at full resolution at 60Hz refresh, and can play youtube and netflix and bbciplayer .. without overheating or damaging the display in clamshell mode, and having the keyboard remain completely reliable .. and Apple can't .. than that is Apple's fault.

• If Apple tell users that clamshell mode is fully supported for all usage .. and it really isn't ... that is Apple's fault.

• If my old 13" 2015 could carry out all the tasks that the 2017 13" can't, and have a reliable keyboard .. that is a regression .. and that is Apple's fault.

 

[Freyqq]

Apple is designing hardware around the intel processor. That includes the motherboard, fans, vents, keyboard.

• If the keyboard keeps failing - that is Apple's fault.

• If the heat damages the adhesive around the display panel - that is Apple's fault.

• If the MacOS software is poorly driving the Intel CPU - that is Apple's fault.

• If my 5 year old £500 Thinkpad can drive a 4K display, connected over DisplayPort at full resolution at 60Hz refresh, and can play youtube and netflix and bbciplayer .. without overheating or damaging the display in clamshell mode, and having the keyboard remain completely reliable .. and Apple can't .. than that is Apple's fault.

• If Apple tell users that clamshell mode is fully supported for all usage .. and it really isn't ... that is Apple's fault.

• If my old 13" 2015 could carry out all the tasks that the 2017 13" can't, and have a reliable keyboard .. that is a regression .. and that is Apple's fault.

From your descriptions, Apple is replacing any part under warranty that fails for hardware faults. Sounds like it has a lot of hardware faults, but Apple is replacing any failed part as per the terms of the warranty - so it's doing its part on that front. Poor performance, high heat, performance worse than a $500 PC thinkpad, etc are OSX software issues that affect everyone and can be fixed in software; this does not require a warranty hardware fix. Sounds like you don't like OSX, which is totally a legitimate concern given the state of OSX at the moment. As pathetic as it sounds, I'd install Windows on it and see if that resolves your issues.

Note: I'm not bashing OSX here directly. It has its faults, but it also has its strengths. I would like to see better performance in OSX compared to Windows. No reason why Apple can be comfortable with the same software in Windows being consistently faster and with less CPU usage than in OSX. For instance, look at any game and compare. OSX is still on an ancient version of OpenGL from 2010, and even games with Metal support are light-years behind Windows in performance.

 

[project_2501]

From your descriptions, Apple is replacing any part under warranty that fails for hardware faults. Sounds like it has a lot of hardware faults, but Apple is replacing any failed part as per the terms of the warranty - so it's doing its part on that front. Poor performance, high heat, performance worse than a $500 PC thinkpad, etc are OSX software issues that affect everyone and can be fixed in software; this does not require a warranty hardware fix. Sounds like you don't like OSX, which is totally a legitimate concern given the state of OSX at the moment. As pathetic as it sounds, I'd install Windows on it and see if that resolves your issues.

Note: I'm not bashing OSX here directly. It has its faults, but it also has its strengths. I would like to see better performance in OSX compared to Windows. No reason why Apple can be comfortable with the same software in Windows being consistently faster and with less CPU usage than in OSX. For instance, look at any game and compare. OSX is still on an ancient version of OpenGL from 2010, and even games with Metal support are light-years behind Windows in performance.

Thanks but something is puzzling me. How does OSX make the keyboard less reliable?

 

[Freyqq]

Thanks but something is puzzling me. How does OSX make the keyboard less reliable?

That's a hardware fault. Did they replace that piece?