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Adobe CEO Responds to Steve Jobs' 'Thoughts on Flash'

He said it is an open standard. Can someone guide me to the site where I can download the source code for flash?

I would like to create a fork so we can add features to the product that Adobe is not currently providing.

Or is it maybe that it is not an OPEN standard?
 
Erwin-Br said:
You're right, but I'm not saying that either. I'm just saying that it's hypocritical to use open standards as an excuse when you don't care for openness at all.
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It's not because a device and the web are not the same thing.

I support lions being in zoos but I do not support them in elementary schools.

I can say that because zoos are not elementary schools.

I guess you would argue that I'm a hypocrite for only supporting lions sometimes but not others. I disagree because I can see the difference between a zoo and an elementary school.

I guess we'll just have to disagree with each other, then.
 
Running on Cross Platform == Open Standard

I love how Adobe considers FLASH an OPEN STANDARD just because it is prevalent on the Internet. It runs on a Mac, it runs on Windows and sometimes it runs on LINUX - but that doesn't make it an OPEN STANDARD, whereas the standards for HTML5, CSS, etc. are open standards that Apple Adopted.

Even the WEBKIT standard has more openness than FLASH.

I tend to agree with Steve - but I caution all because I also rely upon Adobe CS software to do some of my work. I would hate to see Adobe pull back and say they will only program CS6 for Windows 64 bit.

Anyway - Love my iPad and I am not missing FLASH at all.
 
Small White Car said:
Flash content on web pages is on the web. The iPhone OS is not on the web. That's very, very clearly what Jobs means. How is that vague?
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That's not vague - it's part of the cunning tautology Jobs has created. If something is implemented using Cocoa, he defines it as not "pertaining to the web"; while if something is implemented using HTML/CSS, he defines it as "pertaining to the web". He's essentially telling Adobe that its flagship distribution platform must be open, while his is allowed to be closed, even though they might provide the same semantics. But whether something "pertains to the web" is more correctly defined by its semantics (is it about operating in a connected environment with information access/provided worldwide?) not by the language used to create it!
 
neteng101 said:
Its totally Apple's fault for closed APIs, the moment something is released, Adobe jumped right on it, but they can only do so much given the walled garden of Apple. Why Windows Flash is so much better is because Microsoft is pretty much an open book with plenty of ways for developers to hook into the OS.

http://blog.kaourantin.net/?p=89

Took them 2 weeks to produce a working beta after the API was released by Apple, if they had this before, Flash would be working a lot better on OSX.

Apple needs to break down its walls, if it wants to be anything more than a small niche of the pie vs. the MS dominated world.
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Totally, Cause that beta it actually helped things... Oh wait...

http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/28/adobes-flash-player-gala-os-x-preview-tested-results-may-var/
 
Geez, what is it with some of this flash-hate going on here? Yes, Flash runs like crap on a Mac but I'd rather have a slow Flash than not being able to view Flash pages at all. I will not buy a product where I can only use what the powers that be says I can use. If Apple doesn't want to bundle flash with their phone/pad, then don't. Don't say you don't want it in the marketplace because it is a closed system (anyone sense the irony here?). They don't even have to let it run under Safari if they don't want to. Let it run under another browser. There are tons of poopy apps in the app store yet Apple approves them. If you don't like the way Flash runs on your phone/pad, then don't download it. Simple as that.

I love my mac but I would never ever buy an iphone/ipad because of those restrictions. I can do way more on my phone that I'd be able to on an iPhone, and it's all because of Apple's policies.

Oh and while they are at it, Apple should fix the performance of iTunes/Quicktime/Safari in Windows. They run about as bad as Flash on a mac.
 
Performance. You can say it Mr. Nararararayan.

A little test. Open a PDF on your Mac with Preview and with Acrobat with neither program running beforehand. Which brings up the PDF faster?
 
Well....

Steve Jobs thinks Flash sucks... fine

Adobe guy thinks Flash is awesome....fine

But what pisses me off the most is Steve Jobs is so arrogant and egotistical that he's telling me I cant have Flash on MY mobile device. He wont even let us decide for ourselves.

What about us 30 million iphone owners who may want Flash? We get no say just because Jobs is the biggest tool ever?

I love my iphone but I REALLY hate Steve Jobs and the way he does business.
 
Adobe's CEO makes a point, in the end the consumer will decide.

Lets remember that 95% of end-users won't know of this little exchange of words. Most people who use these devices don't know who Steve Jobs is and probably all have no idea who Adobe's CEO is. They won't know the technical details of "open" vs "closed" or terms like HTML5 and what exactly that means.

What they will see is the fact some smartphones can view flash content like Hulu or their local CBS affiliate's website and their iPhone can not. Apple is taking a gamble that most websites are going to dump flash, and I'm not expert enough to know if their gamble will pay off or not. If Apple is wrong, their phone will be left in the dust with incomplete webpages and your average Joe iPhone users will scratch his head as his coworker's Android phone has no problem viewing a live webcast of his local news.
 
you know I'm an Apple fan, and an Adobe fan. Watching the two of them at it like this is like seeing parents go at it in front of their kids... It just feels wrong.

I wish they could calmly get to the table and list out the problems with each other and see how they could help one another. Maybe there's API's or tools that would help Adobe do a better job on the mac/ip* platform(s) and Apple could help provide/create those. and Adobe could do a better job at having less bloat, more standards based technologies, etc.

I'm not sure what the two lists would look like, those were just examples I thought of on the fly. But you get the point.
 
ayeying said:
Flash makes my battery life from :) to :(

And i'm using Adobe's newest 10.1 RC.

However, running Flash on Windows doesn't make my battery life drop at all.

Explain that Adobe. And no, I don't want to buy a new computer.
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OS X sucks?
 
You can't have imagined that Steve's post wouldn't have provoked a very visible backlash from Adobe. Seriously, who's Apple's P.R. firm? They should lose the account.
 
derek4484 said:
But what pisses me off the most is Steve Jobs is so arrogant and egotistical that he's telling me I cant have Flash on MY mobile device. He wont even let us decide for ourselves.
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No, Apple decided that they do not want to sell you a mobile device that includes support for Flash. You chose to buy the device with that limitation.
 
derek4484 said:
Steve Jobs thinks Flash sucks... fine

Adobe guy thinks Flash is awesome....fine

But what pisses me off the most is Steve Jobs is so arrogant and egotistical that he's telling me I cant have Flash on MY mobile device. He wont even let us decide for ourselves.

What about us 30 million iphone owners who may want Flash? We get no say just because Jobs is the biggest tool ever?

I love my iphone but I REALLY hate Steve Jobs and the way he does business.
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He is telling you that if you want Flash on a mobile device, you have to buy a non-apple device. Steve can't keep flash off Android, Windows Mobile, etc.
 
irmongoose said:
It really doesn't take a genius to figure out what the optimum response would be to Steve's letter - nothing.
Yet this imbecile goes to the Wall Street Journal and rambles on about the same talking points they've mustered in the past.

Steve might be blunt, but you've gotta hand it to him, he knows what he's doing.

irmongoose
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One might observe that those who obfuscate are in trouble. Plain speakers however never need apologize.
 
Erwin-Br said:
I totally agree. Jobs doesn't have the right to talk about "open standards" as long as he's selling the world's most closed devices.
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How are their systems closed? How is theirs any different from any other company? Intel Chipsets, NVIDIA Graphics? Not a lot different than an HP or DELL. OSX? Not really...no different than Windows. I guess you could argue Linux is...but we all know how Linux has done over the years; better, but still not the desktop killer it was made out to be...

iPhone? Not a lot different than Nokia, or Motorola. They have their own hardware, as does Blackberry. iPhone OS? What about BlackBerry/RIM?

Don't confuse Open to be EVERYTHING. Open, in this argument, refers to the Internet. Standards based, such HTML, CSS, etc. vs. Flash, or other proprietary plugins etc. Every company has their own "Secret Sauce" to make them competitive, and allow them to make money...

Funny; 10 years ago people said they couldn't wait until Apple made it big, and when they did it was going change computing, etc. Now they have, and the same one's are bitching that they'r too big and need to be taken down a notch. Can't have both...not after they get $$$...once a shark tastes blood, it's over.
 

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derek4484 said:
Steve Jobs thinks Flash sucks... fine

I love my iphone but I REALLY hate Steve Jobs and the way he does business.
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Now tell why do you love your iPhone? Chances are it's related to the way they run their business. Whether it be stability, ease of use or just plain ole it's cool.
 
BaldiMac said:
No, Apple decided that they do not want to sell you a mobile device that includes support for Flash. You chose to buy the device with that limitation.
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The arrogance comes from his making it difficult for third parties to support what customers want. But, you're right, we shouldn't hold it against him - rather against Apple customers who hold Jobs to such low standards :D.
 
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