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Adobe CEO Responds to Steve Jobs' 'Thoughts on Flash'

derek4484 said:
What about us 30 million iphone owners who may want Flash? We get no say just because Jobs is the biggest tool ever?
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No, you get no say because you didn't buy the phone you wanted.

There are other electronics makers out there. Why didn't you buy something that does what you want? Why is it Steve Job's fault that you made a bad choice?

You got "no say" when you bought your iPhone? Someone held a gun to your head and told you to put the Android phone down and walk away?
 
I work as a software engineer for, arguably, the largest entertainment company in the world. We use Flash in our products because we have to. Anyone who has developed a large Flash application knows that Flash is crap. It's slow. It's inconsistent and unpredictable. It's a PITA that only dominates the market because it got its feet in the door early. Everyday around my office, we discuss ways to untether ourselves from the grasp of Flash, but its sheer market saturation prevents us (the engineers) from convincing those who hold real power (the suits) from budging. Flash's oppressive reign needs to come to an end for the sake of future internet technologies.
 
dave1812dave said:
He may have a vision, but Apple still has less than 10% of the computer market...
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So freaking what?!?!

If you want to play numbers games, the iPhone is the highest profit (not margin, but total profit) smart phone. The Mac claims about 50% of the US profit on computers. If they played the Dell/HP/Acer game, they would get less profit and deal with more risk. This is better business from my perspective. Also think BMW. They don't want to capture the lowend of the market, they want the high end.

Thanks for reading my post, Dave, but really, try realize Apple is doing a lot RIGHT (awards and recognition) and your 10% number isn't as hurtful as you meant.
 
derek4484 said:
Steve Jobs thinks Flash sucks... fine

Adobe guy thinks Flash is awesome....fine

But what pisses me off the most is Steve Jobs is so arrogant and egotistical that he's telling me I cant have Flash on MY mobile device. He wont even let us decide for ourselves.

What about us 30 million iphone owners who may want Flash? We get no say just because Jobs is the biggest tool ever?

I love my iphone but I REALLY hate Steve Jobs and the way he does business.
Click to expand...

You do get a say, no one forced you to buy an iPhone.

Down the road, when either Adobe gets its act together or is replaced by a superior product, you'll reap the rewards.

Extensive internet surfing on a phone sucks in all reality. 99% of my web experience on my iPhone is done through apps that websites like Reddit have created specifically for the iPhone.

Using the Reddit app, for example, is far better than trying to use Safari on the iPhone, simply because it is written for a mobile platform. I just don't see that many people using their phones for extensive web surfing.
 
nefan65 said:
How are their systems closed? How is theirs any different from any other company? Intel Chipsets, NVIDIA Graphics? Not a lot different than an HP or DELL. OSX? Not really...no different than Windows. I guess you could argue Linux is...but we all know how Linux has done over the years; better, but still not the desktop killer it was made out to be...

iPhone? Not a lot different than Nokia, or Motorola. They have their own hardware, as does Blackberry. iPhone OS? What about BlackBerry/RIM?

Don't confuse Open to be EVERYTHING. Open, in this argument, refers to the Internet. Standards based, such HTML, CSS, etc. vs. Flash, or other proprietary plugins etc. Every company has their own "Secret Sauce" to make them competitive, and allow them to make money...

Funny; 10 years ago people said they couldn't wait until Apple made it big, and when they did it was going change computing, etc. Now they have, and the same one's are bitching that they'r too big and need to be taken down a notch. Can't have both...not after they get $$$...once a shark tastes blood, it's over.
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They havent made it big in computing only in mobile devices. With Adobe in the past apple MAY have died.
 
The truth is that HTML5 involves more than supporting Safari mobile... There's a plethora of OS and mobile formats that HTML5 doesn't work with, and probably never will with any sort of consistency.

This letter shows that the recent Google/Android/Flash 10.1 announcements have really got Steve worried...
 
Adobe,

A few things:

1. About Flash content: "Flash Professional > File > Export > HTML5".

2. About Flash iApps: Can't help you there. Um ... maybe if moving CSx to Cocoa hadn't take you a decade.

3. Tell your CEO to shut his piehole until he ships something awesome.
 
Small White Car said:
No, you get no say because you didn't buy the phone you wanted.

There are other electronics makers out there. Why didn't you buy something that does what you want? Why is it Steve Job's fault that you made a bad choice?

You got "no say" when you bought your iPhone? Someone held a gun to your head and told you to put the Android phone down and walk away?
Click to expand...

And you weren't allowed to ask for cut&paste because the original iPhone didn't come with it, right ? Idiocy at its finest.
 
"Steve Jobs' message is detailed & linked from Apple.com. Adobe's response is non-technical, doesn't address the points and is on a blog.".
 
I don't get it. I recently got a HTC Desire to replace my iPhone and it runs Flash within the browser flawlessly. No noticeable lag or effect on battery life whatsoever. If HTC/Google can do it I'm sure Apple can.
 
derek4484 said:
Steve Jobs thinks Flash sucks... fine

Adobe guy thinks Flash is awesome....fine

But what pisses me off the most is Steve Jobs is so arrogant and egotistical that he's telling me I cant have Flash on MY mobile device. He wont even let us decide for ourselves.

What about us 30 million iphone owners who may want Flash? We get no say just because Jobs is the biggest tool ever?

I love my iphone but I REALLY hate Steve Jobs and the way he does business.
Click to expand...

I agree with choice, but how do you communicate to the end user that it's flash's problem that the battery life is getting sucked down, and that the device is running slow ? I think Jobs is worried that people will blame it on the device and not the software.

Personally, I don't care for the pissing match between them, but I do see a few possibly good outcomes.

1) Adobe may be looking at Flash more seriously to cut out bloat, and make it more efficient. This is good for everyone.

2) Maybe Flash will get a better at exporting things like to HTML5/Javascript/CSS option. Again everyone wins if this can happen.

3) Maybe Apple will be more encouraged to share technologies that help allow hardware decoding/rendering/etc. I think we've seen the beginnings of this already.

4) Could Adobe make Flash so it directly exports to ObjectiveC, Cocoa files, then someone pull those into xCode, do some cleaning up, etc. ? The Flash and Apple both win

5) etc...

In the end I think both CEO's are individually right, we just need to figure out a way so they can be right with each other.
 
derek4484 said:
Steve Jobs thinks Flash sucks... fine

Adobe guy thinks Flash is awesome....fine

But what pisses me off the most is Steve Jobs is so arrogant and egotistical that he's telling me I cant have Flash on MY mobile device. He wont even let us decide for ourselves.

What about us 30 million iphone owners who may want Flash? We get no say just because Jobs is the biggest tool ever?

I love my iphone but I REALLY hate Steve Jobs and the way he does business.
Click to expand...

Stop the BS, please.

Before the iPhone became "yours", Apple had to create it and determine how to ensure the best handling of security and performance concerns in their platform...they did a FANTASTIC job that can be seen in the hands of millions and millions of users around the world, and all that in less than 3 years.

Macs use Mac OS software; Windows PCs use Windows; iPhones use iPhone OS software...as a matter of principle, ALL computing platforms are based on "walled gardens", some of them better, some worse.

So if you don't like to have access to more than 150,000 secure apps (more than has ever been created for both Mac AND PC platforms), I don't know what else you expect.
 
The Mayans knew it all along. The world will end in 2012 because of an epic battle between Adobe and Apple fighting to the death. You heard it here first :D
 
SAPPete said:
And you weren't allowed to ask for cut&paste because the original iPhone didn't come with it, right ? Idiocy at its finest.
Click to expand...

But it was logical to expect cut and paste to eventually come. I bought an iPhone expecting cut and paste to come. And it did.

Anyone who expected Flash to ever come to the iPhone was being delusional.

If someone bought an iPhone expecting Flash to come to it, well, that person is a fool...no different than someone buying an iPhone hoping Windows Mobile will come to it soon. Both of those people are just kidding themselves.

So, yes, I AM "allowed" to ask for things that make sense and someone else is "not allowed" to ask for crazy things that will never happen.
 
Small White Car said:
No, you get no say because you didn't buy the phone you wanted
Click to expand...
I may speak as loudly as I am able, and Apple (or anyone) can and will listen to me if I speak loudly enough. I can't begin to comprehend the learned helplessness that is putting up with what's on offer in the world and not clamouring for improvement everywhere.
 
Show me a third party engine that runs Flash binaries that is fully open source where Adobe doesn't calm any loss of IP and then it is an open standard!
 
Erwin-Br said:
Narayen again returned to his claim that Flash is an open standard, calling Jobs' claim of it being closed "amusing". Adobe's view of the world is multi-platform, allowing it to provide developers with tools to easily deploy their content across many devices and platforms, a concept that may not to Apple's benefit in trying to lock customers in to its ecosystem.
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I totally agree. Jobs doesn't have the right to talk about "open standards" as long as he's selling the world's most closed devices.
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If only people could perceive the difference between open standard and open platform. Steve doesn't contest the latter when it comes to iPhone. Anyone who wants to develop web content in Flash has to pay Adobe for the privilege — developing in HTML5/CSS/JS is free. Comparing web content with developing for the App Store is, well, apples and oranges.

I'll throw you a bone here... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_standard
 
Small White Car said:
But it was logical to expect cut and paste to eventually come. I bought an iPhone expecting cut and paste to come. And it did.

Anyone who expected Flash to ever come to the iPhone was being delusional.

If someone bought an iPhone expecting Flash to come to it, well, that person is a fool...no different than someone buying an iPhone hoping Windows Mobile will come to it soon. Both of those people are just kidding themselves.

So, yes, I AM "allowed" to ask for things that make sense and someone else is "not allowed" to ask for crazy things that will never happen.
Click to expand...

I was expecting to see teh intarweb on my iPhone. Not teh intarweb Steve wants me to see.
 
I'm not sure what to make of Adobe's battery claim, it seems in the past flash did suck the juice right out of any computer I was using. That said it's been quite a while since I've played any flash games, watched flash videos, etc.

Has something changed?
 
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