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Adobe to End Development on Flash-to-iPhone Compiler in Wake of Apple License Change

macUser2007 said:
Huh?! Being a slave to what? The world wide web, in all its glory, including Flash?

You are limiting your browsing experience because of your religion, not me or the rest of the sane world.

I am sure you'll be riling against Google in a month or two as well, when Jobs tells you that Bing is much better for you....
Click to expand...

To being advertised at and apparently lapping up everything you want from disney.com...

I'm already not a fan of Google; like Mozilla Corp, they hide behind openness when convenient while supporting some of the most proprietary and abusive software around.

It isn't religion; it's part principles, part practicality. Think about it more.
 
macUser2007 said:
And the ONLY reason Flash is used for advertisements, is because Flash is on virtually EVERY computer in the world, and advertisers can reach the greatest number of people.

If HTML5 had as good of penetration, there would have been as many ads done in HTML5. But there are not- so it should tell you something about the real world market-share of each....
Click to expand...

That's another discussion. And it doesn't really concern web surfers, it concerns advertising agencies. My point was, a surfer is not missing out on 60% of the websites he'd visit because he's using an iPhone or iPad.
 
macUser2007 said:
And the ONLY reason Flash is used for advertisements, is because Flash is on virtually EVERY computer in the world, and advertisers can reach the greatest number of people.

If HTML5 had as good of penetration, there would have been as many ads done in HTML5. But there are not- so it should tell you something about the real world market-share of each....
Click to expand...


Flash has been public for 14 years. HTML5 has been an approved spec for about a month. It has a hell of a lot more penetration than Flash did when it was a month old.

XML and HTML4 (and its variants) have far broader and deeper penetration than Flash. HTML5 will be no different. What sort of bizarre argument are you trying to make?
 
coleridge78 said:
... It isn't religion; it's part principles, part practicality. Think about it more.
Click to expand...

Yep, it is religion for you....

If it was principles, you'd be against H.264, based on its proprietary nature.

If it was practicality, you'd be for Flash, because it is on every computer and every platform and reaches everyone (except the tiny iPhone/iPad minority).

But you are for neither. You are deeply religious, and you don't even admit it to yourself.
 
coleridge78 said:
Flash has been public for 14 years. HTML5 has been an approved spec for about a month. It has a hell of a lot more penetration than Flash did when it was a month old.

XML and HTML4 (and its variants) have far broader and deeper penetration than Flash. HTML5 will be no different. What sort of bizarre argument are you trying to make?
Click to expand...

To be fair though, HTML5 has that penetration due to Flash already being so represented on the web. It's a bad comparison. If HTML5 was introduced 14 years ago and flash today - you'd be saying the same thing no doubt.

It's "easier" for HTML5 to gain penetration because it's not pioneering - it's replacing existing content delivery.
 
macUser2007 said:
Yep, it is religion for you....

If it was principles, you'd be against H.264, based on its proprietary nature.

If it was practicality, you'd be for Flash, because it is on every computer and every platform and reaches everyone (except the tiny iPhone/iPad minority).

But you are for neither. You are deeply religious, and you don't even admit it to yourself.
Click to expand...

You're pretending to be a mind reader on the internet. I'm not sure what to label that, other than intensely juvenile.

You elide practicality and penetration of a market not the one under discussion. Each of your shotgunned arguments is silly nonsense.
 
samcraig said:
To be fair though, HTML5 has that penetration due to Flash already being so represented on the web. It's a bad comparison. If HTML5 was introduced 14 years ago and flash today - you'd be saying the same thing no doubt.

It's "easier" for HTML5 to gain penetration because it's not pioneering - it's replacing existing content delivery.
Click to expand...

Yep, totally true. I'm just talking about... "it is what it is". :)
 
iamgalactic said:
...I've been using Flash for over 10 years primarily to produce eLearning materials and it is the best solution available for this.
Click to expand...
At least since Adobe decided to stop really developing Director and favor Flash.:mad::mad::mad:

Hell I've been around when we were complaining to Macromedia that they unnecessarily buried Authorware, which was even better for e-based learning apps (albeit not X-platform). (And for those that do not see the connection: Flash, Director and a lot of nice and established tech was bought by Adobe thru the acquisition of Macromedia, and IMNSHO Adobe has really not done a great job of capitalizing on that.)

So okay, I bear a grudge against Macromedia (R.I.P) and Adobe, not to mention Apple, Sun, Microsoft, etc. etc., but basically, If you've been around this long you have given every player ample opportunity to double-cross /spite / just generally piss you off.
 
macUser2007 said:
I suppose you never visit any entertainment sites, or sports sites, or art sites, or game sites, or Disney or even Pixar...?

Or you are just happy with the mobile versions and web-lite? Have another Kool-Aid.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? Click2flash doesn't remove flash. It just enables you to activate flash on pages if you want to.

I can visit anywhere I want, just that my browser doesn't load useless flash in every single website I visit, which speeds up rendering and browsing overall.

That being said, Apple saying H.264 is open is laughable of course.
 
iBug2 said:
What are you talking about? Click2flash doesn't remove flash. It just enables you to activate flash on pages if you want to.

I can visit anywhere I want, just that my browser doesn't load useless flash in every single website I visit, which speeds up rendering and browsing overall.

That being said, Apple saying H.264 is open is laughable of course.
Click to expand...

It is precisely as laughable as saying Flash is open. No more, no less. Anyone choosing one side over the other here on that particular count is just an ignorant ass.
 
coleridge78 said:
Flash has been public for 14 years. HTML5 has been an approved spec for about a month. It has a hell of a lot more penetration than Flash did when it was a month old.

XML and HTML4 (and its variants) have far broader and deeper penetration than Flash. HTML5 will be no different. What sort of bizarre argument are you trying to make?
Click to expand...

Times have changed, standards are adopted more quickly these days, but...
I think he was simply stating the obvious...

NOBODY IS USING HTML 5!

And those that are are not common sites or they are BETA testing it!
And those that are also don't have all the features of FLASH either!

People just want stuff to WORK.

They don't care about these format wars.

If consumers are caught in the middle, the ultimate culprit will be APPLE.

Nobody in the mainstream public even knows who Adobe is.
 
HyperZboy said:
Times have changed, standards are adopted more quickly these days, but...
I think he was simply stating the obvious...

NOBODY IS USING HTML 5!

And those that are are not common sites or they are BETA testing it!
And those that are also don't have all the features of FLASH either!

People just want stuff to WORK.

They don't care about these format wars.

If consumers are caught in the middle, the ultimate culprit will be APPLE.

Nobody in the mainstream public even knows who Adobe is.
Click to expand...

You're wrong, and obviously don't know anything about the things you're talking about. People are using HTML5, and not in betas. And no, it doesn't have all the features of Flash, because that isn't what it is. Flash doesn't have all the features of HTML5 either. HTML5 isn't a "format". Why are you using all these words when you don't know what they mean?
 
coleridge78 said:
Flash has been public for 14 years. HTML5 has been an approved spec for about a month. It has a hell of a lot more penetration than Flash did when it was a month old.

XML and HTML4 (and its variants) have far broader and deeper penetration than Flash. HTML5 will be no different. What sort of bizarre argument are you trying to make?
Click to expand...

that's because technology was different then and the internet was completely different!
 
coleridge78 said:
It is precisely as laughable as saying Flash is open. No more, no less. Anyone choosing one side over the other here on that particular count is just an ignorant ass.
Click to expand...

H.264 not being open is not exactly the same as flash though. One is a closed platform, the other just a closed codec. But yeah, flash should go away, same with H.264.

Btw, I really hate flash websites, they slow down everything just to display some eyecandy. I was browsing Nike and Adidas stores yesterday, both use flash, and it makes the whole purchasing process much slower than it would take on a non flash purchase site, like amazon.

Flash really needs to go, not because it's closed or buggy, but because it slows down the entire experience. Back then when computers were slow enough, it didn't matter. But todays computers are extremely fast to browse web. So browsing nonflash websites is very efficient, and at the age of superfast computers one plugin manages to cripple down the web experience. If someone wants to use that much eyecandy, find some way to be efficient.
 
Here are some reality checks ;)

http://theflashblog.com/?p=1926

“Google believes that developers should have their choice of tools and technologies to create applications. By supporting Adobe AIR on Android we hope that millions of creative designers and developers will be able to express themselves more freely when they create applications for Android devices. More broadly, AIR will foster rapid and continuous innovation across the mobile ecosystem.”

Go Google & Adobe!
 
coleridge78 said:
You're wrong, and obviously don't know anything about the things you're talking about. People are using HTML5, and not in betas. And no, it doesn't have all the features of Flash, because that isn't what it is. Flash doesn't have all the features of HTML5 either. HTML5 isn't a "format". Why are you using all these words when you don't know what they mean?
Click to expand...

Because I'm speaking like an end user, who sees the difference.

I know that Youtube HTML 5 isn't as good as YouTube FLASH.

DUH!

You all might know more technical stuff than me, but you can't hide the end-user experience in the end and even lots of the technical people have said HTML 5 isn't quite there yet.

Like I've said many times, if it WORKS I'm for it. Right now HTML 5 doesn't work for most end users as a complete replacement for Flash on Macs, PCs, or phones.
 
rumplestiltskin said:
Over 20 years ago Jean-Louis Gassee gave his final speech as an Apple employee; it was the MacWorld Keynote! His talk was entitled "Three Steps in a Love Affair". I only remember two of the three steps (and, perhaps, someone else who was there will remind me of the third step - please PM me and post it here).

Step 1 was "Ubiquitous Internet Access" - okay, we're almost there.

Step 2 was "User-Accessible Programming Language" - Apple sprung HyperCard on us and it was beautiful. Today we have its successor, "Revolution" (from runrev.com). They announced "revMobile" to permit mere mortals to develop apps for iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch, Android, and Windows Mobile. However, the same problem of the "intermediate layer" essentially kills the ability of anyone to use this potentially wonderful tool to develop apps for iPhone OS4 (due to that frickin' rule).

The best apps will come from users who are not alpha geeks. Objective-C isn't part of any dialect we speak. Apple needs to license the revMobile technology and optimize it for iPhone OS4, then let users download it (or, heck, sell it! I'm ready to buy!).

Do Objective-C developers make excellent apps? Well, some do but most of the apps I see at the App Store are rated only two stars so what does that tell you?
Click to expand...

Regarding User-Accessible programming languages... After years of looking for this and thinking about how it could be done, I don't believe it's truly possible -- at least not in a generalized way.

The best a really well designed engine/platform/framework/language can do it to make things no more complex than they are: easy things are easy, complex things are still complex. You can take a complex thing and put a simpler interface over it. That makes it simpler but reduces flexibility -- inherently limiting it. That's the "template" approach. Some engines compensate by making lots of templates. But that makes mastering them all -- when to use which, why and how -- very difficult. And it still isn't that flexible because you still need to find a template that has ALL of the capabilities that you need.

The best thing is to have elegantly designed frameworks where each bit of capability is supplied via a concise and complete, but simple interface that can be mixed and matched with all the other bits of capability. If done well, this is flexible and each piece is simple. But a programmer needs to be able to understand all the levels of abstraction to put it all together.

Objective-C + Cocoa Touch is really a lot closer to the ideal elegantly designed framework than most. The syntax of Objective-C is a little obscure, but it is actually a simple language. Anyway, I think most programmers would agree that learning a new language isn’t the hardest part about learning a new language – it’s learning the frameworks that come with the language. That brings us to Cocoa Touch – it is a really well designed framework. Objective-C + Cocoa Touch falls down badly in a few spots. E.g., memory management and access are highly error-prone and will crash your app if you make a mistake.

I think a lot of times when someone says a language/framework/whatever is easy to use, they mean it has a gentle learning curve. That it’s easy to get in an do something useful, right away. That’s good. And not a particular strong suit of ObjC/Cocoa (though there are much, much worse). But for most apps you soon have to start grappling with difficult problems, no matter how easy it was to get the first screen implemented.
 
HyperZboy said:
Because I'm speaking like an end user, who sees the difference.

I know that Youtube HTML 5 isn't as good as YouTube FLASH.

DUH!

You all might know more technical stuff than me, but you can't hide the end-user experience in the end and even lots of the technical people have said HTML 5 isn't quite there yet.

Like I've said many times, if it WORKS I'm for it. Right now HTML 5 doesn't work for most end users as a complete replacement for Flash on Macs, PCs, or phones.
Click to expand...

How can you possibly make that argument when you found it necessary to make fun of my wife as a user for not wanting to use Flash when it didn't work for her the way she wanted?

It took all of 2 posts to be a hypocrite, congratulations.
 
*LTD* said:
If only people stopped buying Apple gear in droves.

Some perspective:

1) Apple stock has doubled over the past year
2) Apple is now the third-most valuable company in the US, bringing it that much closer to Microsoft (Apple is only about 15-17% off or so)
3) Apple jumped as much as 6.3% on the Nasdaq
4) Apple expects sales this quarter to be as high as $13.4 billion
5) There was a 90% surge in second-quarter profit on demand for the iPhone and Mac. The results added up to the best non-holiday quarter in Apple’s history (again)
6) The only way is up with the iPad and next-gen iPhone. Apple's opened the road to astronomical gains with the iPad, and it looks like they're running away with this market.

Meanwhile Jobs vowed "extraordinary new products" this year.
Click to expand...

Well, that's true. I'm part of those droves, too.
I guess, for now at least, people are satisfied to have a "Disney Land" phone. Android, et. al. will have to deliver apps people really want that Apple won't before people will see any need to change.

That hasn't happened yet (at least not for me, and apparently many others). We'll see if it ever does.
 
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