Adobe to sue Apple now?

[jerome65]

Obviously you have no experience in the matter, so you can stuff your shill comments. If Nexus One and Palm Pre can run Flash, then a Whiz Bang iPhone ought to be up to the task, especially as they become more powerful over time. Or will Apple simply stick with old processors forever?

But not if Adobe did not spend the time to optimize the code to run as good on the iPhone/iPad platform. If Flash were available for the iPhone and it was a poor implementation or a simple port that did not take advantage of the hardware and supported API's that Apple provided and because of that it ran 20% slower on an iPhone and ate up 10% more of the available batter time than it did on the other platforms then it would potentially damage Apple's brand.

 

[rams]

bloody hell.

when will people get that this ISN'T ONLY about flash.
it's about locking out a lot of software to os4.
this will hit the consumer. but all i see here is some nerdrage against adobe.

there will be a lot of apps missing.
no unity, no monotouch - but html5 will fix everything right?

nobody cares about flash or what adobe does.
after spending weeks of development time into a monotouch project and learning now that everything was for nothing, i lost my motivation for the iphone platform. sorry.

 

[ewoh24]

Screw Adobe. I have to support their crappy, overpriced software every day. They used to be such a good company. And Steve yet again amazes me by his verve. He's right. Flash does suck, is a huge CPU hog and Adobe needs to get off their high horse. If Macromedia still developed the app it wouldn't suck.

 

[jragosta]

bloody hell.

when will people get that this ISN'T ONLY about flash.
it's about locking out a lot of software to os4.
this will hit the consumer. but all i see here is some nerdrage against adobe.

there will be a lot of apps missing.
no unity, no monotouch - but html5 will fix everything right?

You're right - it's all about nerdrage (good term), plus some complaining from Adobe shills. Consumers don't care - in fact, they're happy to have secure, reliable applications from the AppStore. Apple clearly believes that what they are doing will maximize user experience, so users should be happy.

As for Unity, the Unity developers don't think the rule applies to them. If you have evidence otherwise, feel free to show it. I don't know about monotouch, but their developers don't seem to be complaining, either.

It's all about Adobe trying to throw their weight around. They're going to find that Sumo wrestling doesn't work in a fast moving market.

 

[alent1234]

bloody hell.

when will people get that this ISN'T ONLY about flash.
it's about locking out a lot of software to os4.
this will hit the consumer. but all i see here is some nerdrage against adobe.

there will be a lot of apps missing.
no unity, no monotouch - but html5 will fix everything right?

nobody cares about flash or what adobe does.
after spending weeks of development time into a monotouch project and learning now that everything was for nothing, i lost my motivation for the iphone platform. sorry.

after using my 3GS for the last 9 months or so, i've noticed that the Apple made software on it is extremely battery efficient. iPod and m4v videos use very little battery power.

the worst offenders are apps. i don't know what people use to make some of this stuff but i've seen simple stuff like the NY Times and a few other mostly text based news apps eat 10% of my battery in a half hour or so. and this is me downloading the articles before i get on the train and reading them with no signal.

and i see very few games that take advantage of the 3GS GPU. probably because everyone is using dev tools that code to the cheapest phone on the market. by the end of this year there will be over 100 million idevices in people's hands and as a consumer i hope Apple pushes developers to take advantage of their hardware and API's

 

[Stately]

Steve did not say he wanted Flash made for these devices. That would cut into sales in the App Store. He did say that the Lite version of Flash was crap (no arguments on that!). He did say that the full version was as well. When Flash 10.1 is released on Nexus One, Palm Pre, etc. the world will see that Flash runs and runs well on mobile devices.

Oh, ok. So why did Steve say they were lazy?

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

If you have a car under warranty and you take it to an non authorized mechanic to have it fixed you loose the warranty because the car will not perform as is suposed to.

Apple is just doing what it can to make its platform run just fine.

Thats an incorrect statement.

 

[Tailpike1153]

They should buy Pixelmator. It's already pretty close, IMO, but lacking a handful of key features. It would not take long AT ALL for an Apple dev team to make it competitive with PS. They would need to add:

* better color profile support
* Layer blend properties
* save to web dialog that exported HTML

I mean, how much is PS these days? Adobe must be smoking crack.

Plus, I wonder if Apple has something even bigger up their sleeves. They demo'd that Toy Story 3 iAd and pointed out that it was all HTML5. I wonder if they have a tool to make those ads? Seems like they could woo away a LOT of small Flash design shops with a tool like that.

If I were Adobe, I would get off my butt, make every CS5 app export to HTML5 (as an option), fire my legal staff, and drop my prices by 20%.

Or they can keep doing what they're doing now....just ask Palm how that worked out.

THe choir says amen.

 

[kdarling]

You're right - it's all about nerdrage (good term), plus some complaining from Adobe shills.

That's the second time you've said that about somebody here. It's annoying to read.

Hint: Your arguments don't sound better by making insinuations and comments about people with views that don't match yours.

It just makes it seem as if you don't think your other arguments are compelling enough.

 

[macUser2007]

Oh, ok. So why did Steve say they were lazy?

(a) To deflect attention from the fact that the iPad uses old, less powerful technology (Cortex 8);

(b) to obfuscate the fact that within its closed platform, Apple wants to monetize media freely available elsewhere, and;

(c) to give some fodder to the army of pimply nerds living in basements, who believe every word their God Steve utters.

(But as all intelligent and sane people know, there is no such thing as God. Really.)

 

[cmaier]

(a) To deflect attention from the fact that the iPad uses old, less powerful technology (Cortex 8);

(b) to obfuscate the fact that Apple wants to monetize within its closed platform media freely available elsewhere, and;

(c) to give some fodder to the army of pimply nerds living in basements, who believe every word their God Steve utters.

(But as all intelligent and sane people know, there is no such thing as God. Really.)

Lol. Do you even know the difference between cortex 8 and cortex 9, and the difference between cpu architecture and cpu design?

 

[macUser2007]

Lol. Do you even know the difference between cortex 8 and cortex 9, and the difference between cpu architecture and cpu design?

Just for you, here is an excerpt:

"Jon Stokes at Ars has an interesting take on the iPad's A4 processor. He says it doesn't have ARM's next-generation Cortex A9 design which supports multicore processors. Instead, he contends that it is a single-core ARM Cortex A8 design which is along the same lines as the current iPhone 3GS, iPod touch as well as the Palm Pre, Droid, etc.

As I watched the videos and read the reports of the iPad in action at the launch event, I was thoroughly convinced that the device was built on the out-of-order Cortex A9, possibly even a dual-core version. But it turns out that the the A4 is a 1GHz custom SoC with a single Cortex A8 core and a PowerVR SGX GPU. The fact that A4 uses a single A8 core hasn't been made public, but I've heard from multiple sources who are certain for different reasons that this is indeed the case. (I wish I could be more specific, but I can't.)

Stokes speculates that Apple's performance gains are likely the results of the chopping off I/O and camera components from the design (other companies get these generic chips with everything in them). He contends that the reason Apple hasn't released any information on the A4 is because there is no "wow" factor to it."

 

[MacFly123]

No, I meant disinformation, because it is incorrect info being propagated through the Net in order to rile people up and make the uninformed think Apple is doing something illegal.

And while I appreciate your sarcastic eye-rolling, perhaps you'd like to explain how the stat you referenced is relevant? Perhaps you're confusing the App Store with an open marketplace available to all devices, vs. an extension of iPhoneOS devices? Or perhaps you think Apple's success in mobile sales is somehow hindering new entries into the market (even though the Android Marketplace has has grown exponentially the past six months)? [insert smart-ass icon here]

I think we're on the same side here, but in either case... c'mon -- let's be civil.

I think we are on the same side, which is why I didn't understand why you are arguing with me when essentially all I am saying is that this case could be big and the outcome will depend on how the court defines the "market". I have said it already, if the "market" is defined as apps then Apple is a HUGE player and the article I linked shows and we all know anyway. If it is defined as phones or platform then monopoly isn't really an issue. It is uncharted territory because this whole area is still emerging. That is all I was saying. I hate Adobe and Flash and I think they are desperate lazy morons that need to just make a new product that is actually good! There is no sense in arguing over what the court will decide, but there are many arguments that could be made on both sides.

 

[DJ Dilbert]

Maybe they are suing for false advertisement....

I mean, there is nothing magical about any of Apple's products...

 

[tbrinkma]

No you can still control Group B illegally with out having control over group A. You can illegelly abuse your power in group be to control group A. Apple is abusing market power in group B to control group A.

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that Apple *does* have a monopoly in Group B (app distribution market-share).
How, pray tell, is Apple using that to influence control over Group B (iphone, BlackBerry, Palm Phones, Windows Mobile Phones, Android Phones)?

Absent that, even having a 100% market-share in app sales isn't abusing a monopoly.

 

[jragosta]

That's the second time you've said that about somebody here. It's annoying to read.

Hint: Your arguments don't sound better by making insinuations and comments about people with views that don't match yours.

It just makes it seem as if you don't think your other arguments are compelling enough.

If you think you can refute my arguments, go ahead and try.

As it is, there are a large number of people who just appeared out of nowhere and have posted nowhere except in this particular thread and their posts are pure hatred of Apple - with no logic or facts behind them. Even their opinions tote the straight Adobe line with no deviation.

If it quacks like a shill......

(a) To deflect attention from the fact that the iPad uses old, less powerful technology (Cortex 8);

(b) to obfuscate the fact that within its closed platform, Apple wants to monetize media freely available elsewhere, and;

(c) to give some fodder to the army of pimply nerds living in basements, who believe every word their God Steve utters.

(But as all intelligent and sane people know, there is no such thing as God. Really.)

a. Why would anyone care what processor it uses? Every single review says that it's blazing fast.

b. If all the media is freely available elsewhere, then no one is forcing you to buy it from Apple. People who like Apple products LIKE the fact that there's a secure store where apps are vetted rather than having to worry about something taking over their computer. If that's not for you, buy an Android phone.

c. Funny, but it's the pimply faced nerds who are attacking Apple. It's the average, everyday user (who is essentially the opposite of a nerd) who likes Apple's products.

You're 0 for 3.

 

[MacFly123]

Those aren't Apple's downloads. Those are mine! (and all the other app developers). I have my copyright notices on all my iPhone apps.

Apple is a tiny player in that app market. Apple's store only reaches about 15% of all smartphone app customers. It's not Apple's fault if the majority of customers in the market aren't buying apps for their (Symbian, RIM, webOS, PalmOS WM6, et.al.) smartphones.

Calm down people lol. I am on your side. I'm simply saying it will be interesting to see how the court defines the "market".

 

[tbrinkma]

Hell, if Microsoft can be sued for integrating and/or bundling Internet Explorer into Windows, why the heck not?

Well, if you were actually familiar with the anti-trust suit to which you refer, you would understand why not. Microsoft wasn't prosecuted because the bundled Internet Explorer. They were prosecuted because, as a condition for buying Windows Licenses, PC manufacturers were required to: a) bundle Internet Explorer, and b) *not* bundle any other company's browser.

Item A is called 'tying' and is illegal in certain circumstances.
Item B is called 'abuse of a monopoly', which is illegal in all circumstances. (Of course, one has to *have* a monopoly before one can be found to abuse it, so Apple's in the clear on that one.)

 

[cmaier]

Yes, but that doesn't answer my question. In what ways do you think an A9 would be superior to an A8?

Just for you, here is an excerpt:

"Jon Stokes at Ars has an interesting take on the iPad's A4 processor. He says it doesn't have ARM's next-generation Cortex A9 design which supports multicore processors. Instead, he contends that it is a single-core ARM Cortex A8 design which is along the same lines as the current iPhone 3GS, iPod touch as well as the Palm Pre, Droid, etc.

As I watched the videos and read the reports of the iPad in action at the launch event, I was thoroughly convinced that the device was built on the out-of-order Cortex A9, possibly even a dual-core version. But it turns out that the the A4 is a 1GHz custom SoC with a single Cortex A8 core and a PowerVR SGX GPU. The fact that A4 uses a single A8 core hasn't been made public, but I've heard from multiple sources who are certain for different reasons that this is indeed the case. (I wish I could be more specific, but I can't.)

Stokes speculates that Apple's performance gains are likely the results of the chopping off I/O and camera components from the design (other companies get these generic chips with everything in them). He contends that the reason Apple hasn't released any information on the A4 is because there is no "wow" factor to it."

 

[macUser2007]

Yes, but that doesn't answer my question. In what ways do you think an A9 would be superior to an A8?

I realize that you are only an associate, but see if you could figure it out.

Hint: two core for the A9 vs one core for the A8 in the iPad

Hint: stripping features (like camera and I/O) to give the impression of speed is no substitute for using a better chipset.

 

[firewood]

Adobe will argue that Apple's app store represents 90%+ of smartphone app sales and is therefore an effective monopoly.

Apple's App store only admits 18% of all current smartphone customers, less than the 30% that that hospital admitted.

Maybe the 70% who went to those other hospitals died before getting any anesthesia, but that's a crime for another department, not anti-trust.

It's not Apple's problem that the majority of the smartphone market don't buy apps. It's Nokia's and RIM's, and maybe next year Google's. Find some legal theory to sue them. Then Adobe will have a much bigger outlet for Flash.

 

[PeterQVenkman]

And Apple has every right to not allow this middleware. Just like Sony and Nintendo do with their closed systems. If you don't use their tools, you don't get to build games for these systems.

This isn't really the best comparison. Almost all current game development on home consoles is done with middleware (I say almost, because there may be some that don't, but who knows).

The middleware is ported to the console- it is the responsibility of the middleware developer in this sense to make sure their engine meets Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft requirements.

Unreal Tournament 3 for PS3 was created with the Unreal Engine and toolset. In order to take advantage of new things the console makers have in their system (like ps3 trophies) the middleware needs to take advantage of it or the developer must code it themselves.

The argument Apple uses - having to wait on a 3rd party vendor to meet new standards/requirements put forth by Apple - goes both ways. Rather than 120,000 developers whose games don't work in the next OS update, and wait for everyone to develop their own solution, Unity can can release a patch, and all 120,000 Unity developers can make their game work using an updated version of the one, centralized middleware tool.

In fact, this has happened in the history of Unity - and still Unity made games are in the top of the list after an update like that.

 

[cmaier]

I realize that you are only an associate, but see if you could figure it out.

Hint: two core for the A9 vs one core for the A8 in the iPad

Hint: stripping features (like camera and I/O) to give the impression of speed is no substitute for using a better chipset.

I'm also a guy who designed AMD's Opteron and Athlon 64, etc.

The camera circuitry was not stripped; that's why they can use the chip in the next iPhone. And removing it would affect power consumption, not speed (and not by much). A9 does NOT require two cores. It supports two cores. Some A9 designs are single-core. One could also do a 2-core A8 (though one would have to design one's own crossbar). So I am asking what you think the difference between an A8 core and an A9 core is.

 

[Bucko]

Spiteful Apple

I'm sitting in my Flash class right now. My teacher says who is a Flash expert 2(0 years in graphics) says APPLE is doing itself a bad service. Spiteful of them!!!!

 

[wovel]

I realize that you are only an associate, but see if you could figure it out.

Hint: two core for the A9 vs one core for the A8 in the iPad

Hint: stripping features (like camera and I/O) to give the impression of speed is no substitute for using a better chipset.

Engineering for performance sake is not how one builds a successful consumer electronics device. The A9 is not necessarily a better choice for the iPad just because it is newer and potentially faster.

Is the A8 fast enough for the intended usage of the iPad? By all reports so far , yes.
Would a dual-core A9 reduce battery life? It would like have a significant impact.
Would a dual-core A9 raise the cost of the device? I would assume so, but don't really know.

There is a reason engineers design products at companies that are successful. Anyone can out and pick the current fastest chip, someone needs to find the best chip for the intended application. I am not ware of anyone complaining about performance of their iPads, if you have some, I would love to see it.

I'm sitting in my Flash class right now. My teacher says who is a Flash expert 2(0 years in graphics) says APPLE is doing itself a bad service. Spiteful of them!!!!

The fact that your instructor can not hold your attention makes me wonder how qualified you really think they are